P38s on gas

[jezza89]

Hi all,

I've been searching a while on this topic, but relevant info is few and far between;

Wanting to know how the later model Thor engines go on gas (multiple point vapour injection?) and more specifically, what kind of economy they achieve.

With petrol prices only going up and up, a decent LPG system is a good option to make our 'older' cars somewhat viable for daily driving.

Any information and insight into this would be appreciated :)

[wayneg]

I have been using mine for the past 4 days and I must say if anything the new car on gas has more go in it then the other on petrol, it could be the 60d engine, lower Klms`s or just wishful thinking, whichever the engine runs sweet.
I will post back as soon as I get an Idea of consumption but am very happy so far with the way she goes on gas.

[jezza89]

Have got a quick quote over the phone from Mews Autogas.
For a multi-point direct injection sprintgas system with 62L usable gas, fitted to wheel wheel area, looking at $2800 after rebate ($1000).
Also comes with 3yr/100000km warranty

Will be interesting to see how quick they pay for themselves.

It's good to hear it's going well for you so far Wayne!

[jezza89]

Finding that my 2001 4.6 does around 14-15L/100km as an average.

Curious to see how the gas performs; if it is similar economy, better, or worse.

[TheTree]

Hi

So far my consumption on gas and petrol is crap, around 20L/100KM :angry:

Just replaced the MAF, O2 sensors and fuel pump.

I will report figures when things stabilse.

Steve

[Robsrod 58]

Finding that my 2001 4.6 does around 14-15L/100km as an average.

Curious to see how the gas performs; if it is similar economy, better, or worse.

My car is the same model and had gas put in around 18 months ago.

So going on your petrol figures, assuming that is unladen numbers, and my sequential gas figures, again unladen, you are looking at around 20c/km for gas and 25c/km based on 165c/l pulp and 93c/l gas.

If I had my time again I wouldn't waste my money with gas instead a long range tank would be more benefit, bare in mind that the excise on gas is expected to rise a lot, so these numbers will close.

Also I've noticed on trips that gas consumption hardly varies with load unlike petrol.

Rob

[Keithy P38]

14-15L/100km on petrol isn't bad at all! For a 2.5t vehicle shaped like a brick! My old 5L V8 VR Commodore used to get worse than that!

Your numbers are similar around-town numbers to me. On the highway fully loaded with a roof load I averaged 13.5L/100km (by the bowser). You will be hard pressed to find a petrol 4wd of this size getting remotely close to that! The 4.5 and 4.8L Nissan GU's and 4.5 and 4.7L 100 series cruiser around town are touching 20L per 100 and are still over 15 on the highway. And they have part-time 4wd systems.

Cheers
Keithy

[benji]

I was talking to a 4.8 GU owner the other day - 23lt/100 around town and 17 on the hwy !!!!!!
He wasn't too happy when I told him about mine.

I'd be very interested to hear what consumption figures you get with injected gas.

[Robsrod 58]

I was talking to a 4.8 GU owner the other day - 23lt/100 around town and 17 on the hwy !!!!!!
He wasn't too happy when I told him about mine.

I'd be very interested to hear what consumption figures you get with injected gas.

21.3 l/100 on gas

Rob

[TheTree]

21.3 l/100 on gas

Rob

Rob

That's about what I get, and I am becoming increasingly convinced that it is on the high side.

I am currently concentrating on getting the petrol system as good as possible, since my LPG system takes it's fuel maps etc from the ECU.

Once I know that petrol running is sorted I will then make sure the LPG is as good as possible as well.

The beast is off to Rampt Customs today for a new bar

Steve

[benji]

Rob is that on the hwy or around town?

[Robsrod 58]

Rob is that on the hwy or around town?

It doesn't seem to matter city or h/way, its always roughly the same. Mine was put in by Graeme Cooper at Tempe, I questioned this when I returned from my corner country trip and they say that the figures are about normal.


Rob

[benji]

Admittantly that's pretty good around town.
On the hwy I'm getting 17.5-18, though I think you run a roof rack?

[Robsrod 58]

Admittantly that's pretty good around town.
On the hwy I'm getting 17.5-18, though I think you run a roof rack?

Correct, I know that has to be accounted for.

Rob

[jsp]

I would have though injected would be a tad better? My single point vapour on a clapped out old gems engine got me 18-20 when I had it fitted and was getting 22-23 when I retired the car.

[Robsrod 58]

Yeh, me too, thats why I wouldn't put it in again. As I said earlier a long range tank is a better option AND a lot cheaper. I'll never recoup my costs for putting gas in especially as I will be selling "Hoover" at the end of the year.

Rob

[wayneg]

Filled up today. 41litres and I did 221klms. I must have a small tank? 18.55ltrs per 100k around town short trips.

[Keithy P38]

Not bad!

[TheTree]

Hi

Pretty good:)

Better than last time I checked mine, i was getting about 320k from 70 litres :angry:

Steve

[wayneg]

There is the unknown amount of petrol used during startup / warm up. I dont get a steady set of lpg panel lights before about 5 mins of running in the morning. Still not sure when I am on lpg after start up

[redandy3575]

I've been down that road before on wether or not to install a multi vapour injection on mine, but couldn't see the value in it.

Just about all Land Rover mechanics i spoke to though they don't despise LPG system, they don't overly recommend them due to the slightly higher combustion temperature and the more added labour in removing all the extra hoses when needing to work on the engine i.e change a head gasket. That was the question my Land Rover asked recently when i had my gasket and camshaft changed, it would of added another $400 to the Labour cost.

My suggestion is to do a bit of research as i'm sure you're already doing, and weigh up the cost versus the bennefits to the potential long term issues and extra servicing cost.

[Robsrod 58]

Mine starts on petrol, and after the thermoswitch on the heat exchanger reaches 50oc it switches to gas. I agree an unknown amount of petrol is being used by the system and I think it is substantial judging by how often I have to put $20 worth of 98 in the tank.

I use gas now as a reserve source of fuel rather than the main source.

Rob

[ozscott]

The Barra ford motor and the 3.9, 4.0 and 4.6 Rovers are the best motors for LPG. Just stick LPG sequential injection on. How often is anyone contemplating changing head gaskets in order to add in the costs of removing lpg gear first...:o

Slight increase in internal temps - not noticeable on scanguage 2. Smoother and more torquey than petrol

Cheers

[redandy3575]

The Barra ford motor and the 3.9, 4.0 and 4.6 Rovers are the best motors for LPG. Just stick LPG sequential injection on. How often is anyone contemplating changing head gaskets in order to add in the costs of removing lpg gear first...:o

Slight increase in internal temps - not noticeable on scanguage 2. Smoother and more torquey than petrol

Cheers

Fair point. Which begs the question why Land Rover didn't offer a factory option for LPG and Ford did! You got to ask the question.

[ozscott]

Yep. Seems they missed a market especially here and UK. I love mine. I firsf had a venturi system with lambda controlled main tap and idle tap and then went to BRC Impco sequential. I have had LPG on the truck for 9 yrs. Im well ahead on running costs at 18l/100k around Bris and 15 on highway with lift roof racks, 31 GG AT's, bull bar etc. Cheers mate

[Pedro_The_Swift]

if anyone is still interested,,
sequential injection on a brand new 4.6 D2,
around 6kpl, flat ground, 100kph, for 100 kays, Toowoomba to Dalby.
and yes the first couple of kays are on 98.

and thats around twice as good as when towing the van;):(:D. Mind you now with the new engine there is **** all time difference caravan/no caravan.:cool:

[Pedro_The_Swift]

Hey Ozscott!
How does yours start when hot?

[ozscott]

Hi Pedro on petrol and then immediate changeover to lpg. Mine is set to change at 59 degrees C.

Cheers

[ozscott]

I think they might have changed the mix a little (ie propane v butane) and I am only averaging 181/100k on LPG in and out to Brissy (a long way off highway running!) versus 17l/100k mid to late last year and 16.2l/100k on premium petrol. However if you work that out even on the current high LPG prices (to reflect heating requirements in Europe) for what I am paying in the Western burbs (nearly 90c per litre lpg!! - verus 84 at Shell on the north side) it costs be $16 to run the truck 100k. On petrol that same 100k costs be $30...its a no brainer. Thats a saving of $3,400 per year doing 25,000k - in fact you save more because LPG is not usually that high across the entire year, but really is 1 - 1.5 years and its all paid and you are saving $3,400 per year easy and having extra range for holiday touring and sequential is really a very slick system - auto change to and from LPG and you really dont notice it, save that LPG is slightly smoother and there is more low down torque. Power feels the same to me.

Cheers

[Pedro_The_Swift]

sorry,, thats the right answer I guess:p
Mine starts first compression when cold, but when hot seems to take around 4-5 seconds to fire,, I think its trying (is?) to start on gas.

[ozscott]

Im with you. No immediately hot or cold. 240k now. Cheers

[bee utey]

sorry,, thats the right answer I guess:p
Mine starts first compression when cold, but when hot seems to take around 4-5 seconds to fire,, I think its trying (is?) to start on gas.
If you have a leaking injector or regulator it will allow gas to leak into the inlet manifold, flooding the warm engine and making it hard to start. If you run the engine on gas, stop the engine then disconnect each injector outlet hose in turn, check for flow using soapy water. Same with any hose from the converter/regulator to the inlet. No need to break into any pressure hoses.

[Pedro_The_Swift]

you mean pull these hoses off the bottom of the injectors?(net pic)
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/03/119.jpg

[bee utey]

you mean pull these hoses off the bottom of the injectors?(net pic)

Yup, certainly the only way to see if injectors are leaking into the manifold is to pull off the injection hoses leading into the manifold. Finger and spit, temporary hose into a tin of water etc, whatever method you use will find a leaky injector unless the leak's so fast the rail empties before you get there,
in which case your running may be seriously affected too.

Oh and if you do find a dodgy injector, the way I do a simple clean is easy. Take the injector rail concerned off the engine, fit a temporary outlet hose to each injector in turn, fill that hose with carby/throttle body cleaner and flush this back through the injector with compressed air. Repeat until the inlet junction of the rail runs clear.

[TheTree]

Hi

Mine always starts on Petrol and switches to gas once the evaporator is up temperature, when it's warm it switches to gas almost immediately.

It's an Omegas Sequential system and I am still chasing a misfire, once I get the beast back from Rampt customs.

Steve