Windows XP support ending

[33chinacars]

It would seem as if we are being forced to move away from Windows XP to Windows 8.1. Have had a message that XP support is ending on April 8th. Grrrr. Maybe I'm a dinosaur.

Have people found any problems with Windows 8.1 working with RAVE & Microcat.

What other problems have you all found with moving over to 8.1.

I'm no computer expert so I'm probably going to need lots of help.

About 12 months ago my computer guru said to stay with Windows 7 , Not 8. What's peoples idea on that.

I also have a few programs that will only work with XP. :censored: GRRRR

Your thoughts & advice please

Gary

[Dougal]

There is zero need to move from windows xp.

Don't be sucked in.

[WhiteD3]

W7 pro is fine. We (the business) skipped Vista and are avoiding W8. One of the techs just bought W7 ($130?) to downgrade a W8 Eeebox that decided not to play anymore.

[incisor]

There is zero need to move from windows xp.

Don't be sucked in.

said noahs mate...

it will be fine as it is now till the anti virus programs stop supporting it if you don't need to update any other software.

it is full of holes tho...

make sure up update to at least ie 8 before the shut off date.

[incisor]

if it is a business box then 7 pro is the go

if a home box 8.1 with start8 addon is very hard to go past...

[sheerluck]

if it is a business box then 7 pro is the go

if a home box 8.1 with start8 addon is very hard to go past...

I've just bought my daughter a new HP convertible laptop/tablet that came with W8. With the update to W8.1 and a few other tweaks I think it is pretty damned good.

[Dougal]

said noahs mate...

it will be fine as it is now till the anti virus programs stop supporting it if you don't need to update any other software.

it is full of holes tho...

make sure up update to at least ie 8 before the shut off date.

Pointless scaremongering. Seriously who uses I.E. and which AV companies are no longer supporting XP?

Right now all that occured is M$ have stated no more patches and service packs.
Which makes absolutely no difference to virtually all users. It's all a marketing exercise to drive people to upgrading perfectly usable computers to new hardware and new (M$) software.

I run winXP on two computers with absolutely no anti-virus. They are computers which don't browse the internet and in 5 years neither have had any issues.
Despite having less brain power than a modern cell phone they still work brilliantly.

The XP computer here still in use got rogered by a virus 6 years ago. Despite being fully up to date in all respects. At the time three commercial AV programs could not find or fix the virus.
But a year later (when infected HDD was pulled from the archive and run through the latest virus updates) it was able to be sorted.

AV software is no guarantee of anything.

[WhiteD3]

Pointless scaremongering. Seriously who uses I.E...................

Me, all my customers and those of my fellow companies worldwide who offer a web platform for universal use. IE (flawed and annoying as it is) is the "Office"of web browsers.

[sheerluck]

Me, all my customers and those of my fellow companies worldwide who offer a web platform for universal use. IE (flawed and annoying as it is) is the "Office"of web browsers.

Same here. Zero choice at work, no-one is permitted to install anything else unless they are an admin.

So that would be somewhere around 40,000 of my colleagues worldwide. And statistics I saw recently suggested that more than 50% of people using the internet are still using IE.

[incisor]

Pointless scaremongering.


how about you keep doing your diesels and i'll keep doing computers :p

i don't say things for the feel good factor of saying them...

look at what i said...

more info on time lines here

AV-TEST - The Independent IT-Security Institute: The End Is Nigh for Windows XP: These Anti-Virus Software Products Will Continue to Protect XP after the End of Support (http://www.av-test.org/en/news/news-single-view/artikel/the-end-is-nigh-for-windows-xp-these-anti-virus-software-products-will-continue-to-protect-xp-after/)

[Dougal]

Me, all my customers and those of my fellow companies worldwide who offer a web platform for universal use. IE (flawed and annoying as it is) is the "Office"of web browsers.


Same here. Zero choice at work, no-one is permitted to install anything else unless they are an admin.

So that would be somewhere around 40,000 of my colleagues worldwide. And statistics I saw recently suggested that more than 50% of people using the internet are still using IE.

If it's a work computer, then upgrading isn't even your problem.

More than 50%? Nope. More like 10-20%: Browser Statistics (http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp)
Usage share of web browsers - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

One of my businesses has a webshop. It collects stats on visitors. IE user numbers are down below even iOS phone browsers. But our customers don't fit with the general population. This graph is from the Wikipedia entry above.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/86/Usage_share_of_web_browsers_%28Source_StatCounter% 29.svg

[Dougal]

how about you keep doing your diesels and i'll keep doing computers :p

i don't say things for the feel good factor of saying them...

look at what i said...

more info on time lines here

AV-TEST - The Independent IT-Security Institute: The End Is Nigh for Windows XP: These Anti-Virus Software Products Will Continue to Protect XP after the End of Support (http://www.av-test.org/en/news/news-single-view/artikel/the-end-is-nigh-for-windows-xp-these-anti-virus-software-products-will-continue-to-protect-xp-after/)

Well that's a total of 15 major AntiVirus players who have no current plans to cease XP support.
Another 14 give timeframes ranging from 2 years to 5 years out. Only the M$ products in there are ending shortly.

Time to panic? Maybe 2019.

[incisor]

Only the M$ products in there are ending shortly.

Time to panic? Maybe 2019.

as i said earlier

it will be fine as it is now till the anti virus programs stop supporting it if you don't need to update any other software.

if the boxes aren't on the net then there is little chance there will be issues

if they are... then they are full of KNOWN holes that are never going to be fixed.

most exist in the gui shell integration and are common components in IE and any other browser that uses those components... and that is most of them to varying degrees.

add some java and a little flash and you'll be owned eventually.... whether your smart enough to know is another concept all together...

[sheerluck]

If it's a work computer, then upgrading isn't even your problem......

But that wasn't your question. Your question was "Seriously who uses I.E.".

[33chinacars]

Thanks for all the reply's guy's. Very informative.

Currently I'm using a mix of I.E. 8 & Chrome ( mostly Chrome). Run Norton 360. So hopefully XP will see me out for another couple of years. Things seam to be getting a bit slower. I've got an Intel Core 2 duo @ 2.33 GHz. As much Ram as it can handle & a 250 GB HDD ( not very big by today's standards ). Was all pretty good when it was set up , but that was a few years ago now.

Thanks Again

Gary

[jonesy63]

If you don't have much RAM (under 4GB ), I suggest running Windows 7 32 bit or even better, Ubuntu.

For those in business, WinXP use is a BIG issue in Europe - where if you lose customer data using a known vulnerable system, you're in breach of data protection laws.

Most of my day job for the last month has been trying to get employees to move off WinXP and onto Win7 or RHEL. :angel:

[AndyG]

I have a couple of hundred PC's deployed in PNG, have to flush out the last few XP machines for other compatibility reasons with new software. However Win 7 Pro will be fine for the next few years. Hopefully Microsoft will come to their senses with Win 9, Win 8 was a mad panic to be Tablet compatible and they forgot their business users.

[Distortion]

To a business XP should be considered a liability going forward. Do you really want to deal with a company that is keeping data on a system where security of your information is in question because they can no longer keep their systems up to date.

Any exploits that show up in the newer versions of windows will immediately be tested against XP but won't be patched anti-virus or not this problem will only keep getting worse for xp.

If you do have to run it for software compatibility reasons I would be isolating it from the rest of your network and putting policies in place as to what it can be used for.

[AndyG]

These machines are in the back blocks, lucky to have power, (Genset), no phone, no Internet, no usb, no CD, they just do a job.

[Dougal]

The OP is clearly a home user. Why are you guys on about business and client data security?

[Basil135]

Thanks for all the reply's guy's. Very informative.

Currently I'm using a mix of I.E. 8 & Chrome ( mostly Chrome). Run Norton 360. So hopefully XP will see me out for another couple of years. Things seam to be getting a bit slower. I've got an Intel Core 2 duo @ 2.33 GHz. As much Ram as it can handle & a 250 GB HDD ( not very big by today's standards ). Was all pretty good when it was set up , but that was a few years ago now.

Thanks Again

Gary

Gary, your machine is old, but if it is stable, then I say, stay with it.

When Norton no longer release updates, then it might be time to look at a new one. I would suggest you have, as a minimum, another 18 months or so.

Personally, I like XP & Win 7, not a fan of Win 8, but thats just me.

My laptop is running Win 7, and my pc for the CNC is running XP. When the XP machine dies, I will probably replace it with another one, still running XP. It doesn't do any automatic updates, has no anti-virus, but contains NO data of any use to anyone. It's even has a wireless connection. :eek:

Business applications are a totally different kettle of fish, and there is some push to get these machines updated.

[jonesy63]

The OP is clearly a home user. Why are you guys on about business and client data security?

To give a PROFESSIONAL opinion of the situation. Your assumptions that AV products will protect un-patched WinXP is WAY off the mark for reality.

[Dougal]

To give a PROFESSIONAL opinion of the situation. Your assumptions that AV products will protect un-patched WinXP is WAY off the mark for reality.

Lets discuss reality.
I've run XP for 10 years on up to 4 machines concurrently. Still running 3 of those.
That's betwen 30 and 40 years of XP unpatched running AV.

One infection, five years ago.

[Dougal]

My laptop is running Win 7, and my pc for the CNC is running XP. When the XP machine dies, I will probably replace it with another one, still running XP. It doesn't do any automatic updates, has no anti-virus, but contains NO data of any use to anyone. It's even has a wireless connection. :eek:

Funnily enough, that's exactly what one of my XP machines does. Same setup on a CNC mill with no service packs, no anti-virus and absolutely no problems.
G-code must be a PITA for the malware writers.

[jonesy63]

Lets discuss reality.
I've run XP for 10 years on up to 4 machines concurrently. Still running 3 of those.
That's betwen 30 and 40 years of XP unpatched running AV.

One infection, five years ago.

Let me give you my perspective. My scope at work is over 260,000 workstations across the world, for the past 13 years. The (mostly new) PC users that click on links from unknown sources get infected all the time. No AV product can protect against that - their signature based technology is always in catch-up mode. As I've said here before, user behaviour is the major reason for infections.

[singlecell]

Come on guys, its been 13 years. Time to let go.
I would like to know what all these people are doing that make windows 7 and 8 such a bad experience.
I have used my computer/s for a range of purposes and have never had an issue really.
Although disabling driver signature enforcement in windows 8 is a pain in the ass.
Obviously there are issues when it comes to business use due to software compatibilities etc. But as I said in the starts, 13 YEARS.

[jonesy63]

Come on guys, its been 13 years. Time to let go.


Yes... Code Red, Code Blue, Nimda... the list goes on and on... So long XP and thanks for all the malware!

[Dougal]

Come on guys, its been 13 years. Time to let go.
I would like to know what all these people are doing that make windows 7 and 8 such a bad experience.
I have used my computer/s for a range of purposes and have never had an issue really.
Although disabling driver signature enforcement in windows 8 is a pain in the ass.
Obviously there are issues when it comes to business use due to software compatibilities etc. But as I said in the starts, 13 YEARS.

Better sell your landrovers mate. Landrover stop patching those only a few years after sale.

[theresanothersteve]

The OP is clearly a home user. Why are you guys on about business and client data security?
Home PCs are subject to the same security flaws as business machines. Like it or not your home computer 'remembers' much of what happens. Some nasties will trap passwords, user names, and sites they are used. Stored data will allow someone to build a very accurate profile of a user.

It can be hoped that people responsible for security exploits will not worry about XP once it becomes low use, just as they don't write malware for Win 9x anymore. But, as the OP stated, they'll still try the new ones against XP.

You can further protect yourself by logging on as a user, rather than administrator, unless you are installing software or making other system changes. You don't need to password protect the administrator account, although I would incase the nasty trys to log on as an admin. We had a programmer who used this as his sole method of defence, didn't run antimalware because he hated the performance hit. Served him well enough...

[33chinacars]

Yes I'm just a "home " user. Running basic farming/ accounting programs . Probably more worried about the compatibility of my versions of RAVE & Microcat. Some of the other thing that won't work with Windows 7 / 8 I can live with out . I think ??? . I think I can get updates of all the photo programs that I use.
Thanks Basil135 & others. No problems with the machine I'm running at present. So I'll stay with it for awhile longer. (Have to. Can't afford anything at this time).
Talked to my guru . This old girl wont run Windows 7 / 8. So when I do go up it will have to be a whole new machine. This old girl has served me well. Original tower is 14 years old although its had a couple of new hearts since.

Gary

[Pedro_The_Swift]

Gary, if the "Tower" is 14 years old a serious change of heart wont fit in it!:D:D

Plenty of Pro's around here will advise on what you need;)

[33chinacars]

Thanks Pedro :(:( Yes I know that I will have to start all over again . Bugger

Gary

[incisor]

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/04/998.jpg

[p38arover]

I have a perfectly good Compaq laptop that cost far too much back in 2002. Unfortunately, it won't run Win 7 which I run on my desktop. Since I've retired, the laptop doesn't get much use, it was only used when I took it to work to while away the midnight shifts.

I tried installing Ubuntu on the laptop but the laptop doesn't support PAE. So I mucked around to find an earlier version, installed it and it wouldn't run. I've finally got an earlier version of Xubuntu running and now have to learn it. I tried once before and gave up in disgust.

I also have a much newer NetBook running XP - it was used on trips away on holiday but that role has been taken over by an iPad. The NetBook doesn't have a CD/DVD drive so updating to Win 7 (if possible) might need to be done via the USB port. However, there's really not much point as the NetBook doesn't get much use anymore.

I might relegate one of them to monitoring the household energy generation/consumption and toss the old laptop that runs Win2000 (connected to the 'net to upload data every 5 minutes). Why 2000? Ever tried getting XP working with the maximum 192kB memory that laptop can run and Win98SE wasn't the easiest to network.

The laptop in the garage is also running XP but that's only used to run the Land Rover Testbook T4 software so network access can be turned off.

[AndyG]

Argh, the PC bilong missus finally died, bought secondhand from Melbourne commonwealth games, used for email, Marburg radar, and lotto results. Bought her an ipad, but rejected.
Maybe an old Altai

[p38arover]

Argh, the PC bilong missus finally died, bought secondhand from Melbourne commonwealth games, used for email, Marburg radar, and lotto results. Bought her an ipad, but rejected.

Perservere! Once she's tried it for a while she won't go back.

The iPad is ideal for that. I use Pocket Weather AU (on the iPad and iPhone) for weather radar.

My wife has two iPads, a mini and an iPad 2 Retina. (I've got her old iPad 2). The mini is ideal on trips.

[vnx205]

I tried installing Ubuntu on the laptop but the laptop doesn't support PAE. So I mucked around to find an earlier version, installed it and it wouldn't run. I've finally got an earlier version of Xubuntu running and now have to learn it. I tried once before and gave up in disgust.


Did you consider Lubuntu?

DistroWatch.com: Lubuntu (http://distrowatch.com/table.php'distribution=lubuntu)

It is supposed to be better on very old systems.

[Bushie]

Pointless scaremongering. Seriously who uses I.E. ...........................................

Unfortunately we do, (as in NSW gov) fortunately my little area has just moved to using chrome as well.
Apparently due to IE not being standards compliant, and some things have to be implemented across multiple browsers/smart devices.

We also have a few machines still running XP, but the majority have gone across to Win7 (I'm only a user though)


Martyn

[p38arover]

Did you consider Lubuntu?

DistroWatch.com: Lubuntu (http://distrowatch.com/table.php'distribution=lubuntu)

It is supposed to be better on very old systems.

I did a year or so back but deleted it and went back to XP - then forgot about it. At least with XP I knew what I was doing.

[Tombie]

Perservere! Once she's tried it for a while she won't go back.

The iPad is ideal for that. I use Pocket Weather AU (on the iPad and iPhone) for weather radar.

My wife has two iPads, a mini and an iPad 2 Retina. (I've got her old iPad 2). The mini is ideal on trips.

Thought you didnt go on trips Ron :angel:

[p38arover]

Thought you didnt go on trips Ron :angel:

I don't. Elisabeth goes by herself.

She's been to Europe, UK, Singapore (several times), New Zealand (many times), USA, Vietnam, and many places in Oz without me. I take her to the airport.

[discovery39]

Did you consider Lubuntu?

DistroWatch.com: Lubuntu (http://distrowatch.com/table.php'distribution=lubuntu)

It is supposed to be better on very old systems.

I don't usually stick my head into this section of the website, but I just had to poke my nose in to mention that I've been a Linux nutter for years. I can highly HIGHLY recommend Ubuntu and it's many flavours. (Lubuntu, Xubuntu etc)
At the moment as I type this, I'm running a 1year old Sony Vaio E Series Laptop. It was shipped with Windows 8. It has been driving me crazy. Coincidently, it was just two days ago that I switched it over to Linux. It's sooo much faster, and more streamlined. Even the CPU fan is doing less work!!!:p
My main PC is also running Linux, that is just an old Acer, that I've built over the years, added cards and memory etc. It is running Ubuntu 14.
Point being, Lubuntu, is equally as good on flash new Laptops/PC's, as it is on old Dinosaur ones.
The other benefit with a Linux system, is a place they call the Software Repository.
Think of it like a Google play store or iTunes store, you just look around for the software you want/need and download it. Simple as, no need to know Terminal (command prompt) language. (although I do speak Terminal:D)
Anyway, I just thought I'd 'chip in' with my 2c worth.
Linux all the way every day!
Cheers guys.

[Dougal]

I'd love to run linux and should go back to checking out LinuxCNC at some point. Last time I had setup issues and mach3/XP was so easy.

Sadly my CAD programs and graphics drivers kept me away from linux on my workstation laptop last time I looked.

The amount of FUD M$ is spreading over XP right now is obscene. Trying to trick everyone into upgrading. I had a customer call me yesterday too scared to send anything through a website order because their computers use XP.

[discovery39]

I'd love to run linux and should go back to checking out LinuxCNC at some point. Last time I had setup issues and mach3/XP was so easy.

Sadly my CAD programs and graphics drivers kept me away from linux on my workstation laptop last time I looked.

The amount of FUD M$ is spreading over XP right now is obscene. Trying to trick everyone into upgrading. I had a customer call me yesterday too scared to send anything through a website order because their computers use XP.

Yes, do check it out. Linux (ubuntu) have just released a new version. (March 28)
Check out the website because they have also updated the drivers and ancillary programs. I'm not into CAD, but I have seen some programs and drivers related to CAD in the software repository. Bit I wouldn't know what to look for.....;)
As for all the scaremongering about XP, I think it's disgusting, as you know, and has been mentioned, it will be perfectly ok until the Virus definitions stop.

[incisor]

As for all the scaremongering about XP, I think it's disgusting, as you know, and has been mentioned, it will be perfectly ok until the Virus definitions stop.

unfortunately it isn't just scaremongering, it is trying to get people to protect themselves and their information.

any idiot with an iq above 5 should realise an xp box sitting in the corner not connected to anything else is going to keep on working till something in the hardware or software degrades.

that can't be said for an xp box that accesses the Internet on a regular basis. anyone that thinks that is in anyway a safe proposition, needs to have a little sit and think as they are deluding themselves.

yes, as an operating system it will keep running, yes as an operating system it will still let you surf the net, unfortunately even with the best antivirus and internet security package installed the weaknesses are still in the operating system and use the very same points of access that you use to do things on the net.

the days of crucifying machines with viruses is long gone, they have realised there is money in your info and using xp is like handing it on to them on a platter.

the heartbleed ssl bug is a prime example of a very serious leak that wont be fixed in the base xp operating system or the ie interface or ie components used by third party browsers like chrome etc

the dangers and risks are very clear and present ....

[discovery39]

unfortunately it isn't just scaremongering, it is trying to get people to protect themselves and their information.

any idiot with an iq above 5 should realise an xp box sitting in the corner not connected to anything else is going to keep on working till something in the hardware or software degrades.

that can't be said for an xp box that accesses the Internet on a regular basis. anyone that thinks that is in anyway a safe proposition, needs to have a little sit and think as they are deluding themselves.

yes, as an operating system it will keep running, yes as an operating system it will still let you surf the net, unfortunately even with the best antivirus and internet security package installed the weaknesses are still in the operating system and use the very same points of access that you use to do things on the net.

the days of crucifying machines with viruses is long gone, they have realised there is money in your info and using xp is like handing it on to them on a platter.

the heartbleed ssl bug is a prime example of a very serious leak that wont be fixed in the base xp operating system or the ie interface or ie components used by third party browsers like chrome etc

the dangers and risks are very clear and present ....

I couldn't agree with you more Inc. My point is that people just need to approach the subject with a clear head, and use caution until they can find something else.
It's all the hype I'm talking about. Maybe forcing the un-educated that the only alternative is a flashy new system with Windows 8+ on it. As you say, anyone with an IQ above five should be reasonable enough to establish the fact that there is a risk.
We just have to make sure you have all your systems secure Inc.:p

[incisor]

We just have to make sure you have all your systems secure Inc.:p

i don't use xp or linux on my servers :D:D:D:D:angel:;)

[discovery39]

i don't use xp or linux on my servers :D:D:D:D:angel:;)

You're not one of those funny Apple types are you...........;)

[incisor]

no, i am odder, i use bsd and solaris on my servers

mac at home.. (and a heavily modded, bank switching atari 600xl for my old games :p)

windows 8.1, 8, 7 and xp at work....

[discovery39]

Ah, good old Solaris. I'd forgotten that one. Think I'll go check them out, c how they're doing these days. :)

[workingonit]

Incisor and I have had a little tete-a-tete elsewhere on merits of linux. I would be happy for him to run an instruction forum on setting up bsb and solaris :)

I run a nice compact Fuduntu for web browsing and have no issues. I use XP on stand alone towers just for legacy stuff such as my CAD and Studio8 - they're legit copies of XP but I don't bother registering with microsoft - I remove the battery from the mother board so XP can only count down the three months registration requirement by the amount of time I'm actually on the system.

[incisor]

Incisor and I have had a little tete-a-tete elsewhere on merits of linux. I would be happy for him to run an instruction forum on setting up bsb and solaris :)

it is about as easy as installing linux

package management may be harder with solaris but a little light reading will have you there in a couple of days...

i had a professional do the base install of solaris on the aulro server as it is a t1000 and wanted it done right, the man did an excellent job of setting me on my way...

on std intel gear you can download a live / install cd and go from there with either solaris or the main bsd variants.

if you have linux experience most of the learning curve is done...

[workingonit]

trouble with Linux is its got so good that little experience is required other than cutting a live bootable...me.

Once I finish fixing my land rovers I'll give bsb a go...now how far into the future will that be???!!

[London Boy]

if you have linux experience most of the learning curve is done...
Does Unixware SvR4 count? Or BSD maybe?

I used to play with Linux up to about 0.91, but I'm a bit hazy on everything since. Have to say that it's hard to see past Android if you want to avoid Windows these days.

All of which said, the only people who should be running XP now are people not connected to the Internet. AV won't prevent typical exploits these days, and most of the time you won't know you've been hit until bad things happen.

[AndyG]

It all started going downhill after CPM and Pick, although Os/400 was sweet.

Almost slow enough now to buy Apple :wasntme:

[p38arover]

It all started going downhill after CPM and Pick, although Os/400 was sweet.

Almost slow enough now to buy Apple :wasntme:

I preferred NewDOS/80 for the TRS80 NewDos/80 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NewDos/80)

I wasn't a CP/M fan although I used it on my Osborne 1 portable computer Osborne 1 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/04/220.jpg

[JDNSW]

My Altos computer used "Opera", a variant of CP/M that fitted more onto (8") discs by using larger blocks. Moved from that to MS-DOS when I got an 80286 computer about 1988.

John