X-Springs, Love them or Hate them?

[chook73]

Another thread on articulation got me wondering about the X-Springs, I have seen them in action on the rear of MLD's truck and they look ok but it seemed out of balance a little.

Are the X-Springs a good idea for increased articulation?

Is there really a disadvantage on side slopes that they can "push" the vehicle over?

Finally what happens with the front shock or do people only run them on the rear? Is there a kit to re-locate the front shock?

[LowRanger]

Iain
They are mainly fitted to the rears.
I wasn't aware that Mark has them fitted,but Mike (Gold Cloverleaf) has had them fitted for a while and likes them.
The jury is out as far as I am concerned,mine is balanced an working nicely at the moment without them;)

[chook73]

Iain
They are mainly fitted to the rears.
I wasn't aware that Mark has them fitted,but Mike (Gold Cloverleaf) has had them fitted for a while and likes them.
The jury is out as far as I am concerned,mine is balanced an working nicely at the moment without them;)

Sorry my bad, somehow got Mark and Mike confused…. :angel:

I guess that is my question really, are they just an easy way out of a well balanced truck?

[MR LR]

I personally don't see the point of them, I have bottom cones on the back of my Range Rover which I fabricated, (it has +5" terrafirma shocks), under full flex the cone drops right out of the bottom of the spring, however as it is retained at the top it naturally lines back up to re-seat, personally I'd prefer longer springs that were retained, this is a temporary set up for me. X-springs seem clunky and over complicated in the videos I've watched, my cones don't even make a noise.

If you're at Mulgo any time and Mitch is there, he has the first set I made on the back of his 110, the later version is different and uses 10mm round bar. Neither set has ever given an issue at all.

Here's a pic showing mine at near full extension.

Cheers
Will

[weeds]

Is there a kit to re-locate the front shock?

I have no idea what an x spring is......

Re: kit to relocate front shock, yes there is. Airbag Man make them for when you fit airbags to the front of a defer.....

Bender07 had air bags on the front of his puma.....I'm guessing he manufactured them himself as I don't think he used the airbag man kit

[brendanm]

Hi Iain
Good to hear from you. I was looking at them at the moment as I am in the gathering phase before changing the suspension in one hit. Having seen Mike's articulate, the action is smooth,silent with great travel. They are listed as out of stock at the moment on their web site. I was going to mix and match the Gwyn Lewis fitting with them on the rear. There is a company that relocates the front shock forward outside the spring which would allow you to run them at both ends. The front of Gwyn's fitting don't seem to generate the same noise as the back, though maybe this is due to the rear articulating sooner than the front and a different style of fitting. Be different vehicle to vehicle and dependant on terrain.

[uninformed]

didnt RRC with EAS have outboard front shocks...maybe look at there shock mount?

[Tank]

WTF are X springs, Regards Frank.

[uninformed]

X Springs for Land Rover Defender 110 (Pair) (http://foundry4x4.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&path=65_1759&product_id=72)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FSEfqQzUQKQ

[chook73]

Hi Iain
Good to hear from you. I was looking at them at the moment as I am in the gathering phase before changing the suspension in one hit. Having seen Mike's articulate, the action is smooth,silent with great travel. They are listed as out of stock at the moment on their web site. I was going to mix and match the Gwyn Lewis fitting with them on the rear. There is a company that relocates the front shock forward outside the spring which would allow you to run them at both ends. The front of Gwyn's fitting don't seem to generate the same noise as the back, though maybe this is due to the rear articulating sooner than the front and a different style of fitting. Be different vehicle to vehicle and dependant on terrain.

Hi Mate, been a bit busy with work lately and a truck blocking up my driveway…. :twisted:

It was actually Gwyn that talked me out of the x-springs the other night. Apparently he has had a lot of problems with them and wont touch them, I value his opinion, he is a no BS type of guy.

He explained that lightly loaded trucks (such as empty 130's) get pushed up when the release of load reaches a certain point such as when your going down a rock step, the unloading of the weight on the rear combined with the inner spring kicking in makes for a very scary ride….

I am putting in the original springs Ken made for me with the new trailing arms and super flex radius arms with Gwyns long travel shock mounts. Hopefully should flex up ok for a tourer….

[brendanm]

The originals that Ken made were they a 2 inch or standard height? Did you speak to Gwyn re the rear A frame ball joint. I noticed both he and X engineering do a higher misalignment joint where Maxi Drive do a 2 inch extended version. I figured with the anticipated flex some version will be looked at.

[chook73]

The originals that Ken made were they a 2 inch or standard height? Did you speak to Gwyn re the rear A frame ball joint. I noticed both he and X engineering do a higher misalignment joint where Maxi Drive do a 2 inch extended version. I figured with the anticipated flex some version will be looked at.

The original springs were a +2" - +3" (or possibly more) height however with the portals and all of the changes we never really knew….. nothing like a surprise :eek:

No I dint talk to Gwyn about the A Frame joint as I already have the Maxi Drive 2" Extension…..

I think the new rear trailing arms in their current position on the chassis will really help that rear end especially without the triangle bushes tearing apart….

[LowRanger]

Sounds like Gwyns thoughts match my own ideas.I see not much benefit and a lot of detriment.The rear on a Land Rover is easy to get to work,it is the front that takes some work.

[Dougal]

I personally don't see the point of them, I have bottom cones on the back of my Range Rover which I fabricated, (it has +5" terrafirma shocks), under full flex the cone drops right out of the bottom of the spring, however as it is retained at the top it naturally lines back up to re-seat, personally I'd prefer longer springs that were retained, this is a temporary set up for me. X-springs seem clunky and over complicated in the videos I've watched, my cones don't even make a noise.

If you're at Mulgo any time and Mitch is there, he has the first set I made on the back of his 110, the later version is different and uses 10mm round bar. Neither set has ever given an issue at all.

Here's a pic showing mine at near full extension.

Cheers
Will

You've missed the point completely.
Unlike dislocation cones, which are pointless, X springs are a two stage concentric spring which actually keeps pushing the wheel into the ground.

[Dougal]

didnt RRC with EAS have outboard front shocks...maybe look at there shock mount?

Yes they do. Not easy to explain, I will crank out a cad model of them one day.

[MR LR]

You've missed the point completely.
Unlike dislocation cones, which are pointless, X springs are a two stage concentric spring which actually keeps pushing the wheel into the ground.
What would you know? Your cars are stock.

My car works 10 times better with cones as it can use the full shock travel. With standard perches, unless I spaced the bump stops out about 80mm I couldn't get long enough springs in there. A lot of people ask me if I have a rear locker as the back wheels drive very evenly as they stay on the ground even when dislocated, didn't do half that with retained springs.

I agree that cones aren't very good, but as I said they are a stop-gap, and I'd prefer them to x-springs after reading reviews and watching them work, long coils will do a better job than x-springs at keeping pressure on the inboard wheel anyway. Plus there is a limit to how much you should make the rear flex IMO, I think even flex is better than stupid rear flex with bugger all in the front, the car goes much further with holey bushes.

Cheers
Will

[Dougal]

Yawn.

[MR LR]

Yawn.
Ditto

Oh, and yes I do know how x-springs work, principle is good but I'm not a fan of the execution, I'd rather have long soft coils and a dis-connectible sway bar to make it work on-road.