Newbie with Series IIA gearbox headache.

[rolr]

Hi all,

I am new to this being a Landrover owner and have just bought a SWB Series IIA with a Holden 202 conversion for exploring the less traveled roads here in the NT. I note the comments to John about owning one of these gems and I have found myself occupied most weekends sorting out (sofar) minor problems with my newly aquired vehicle (Butty and the "Antichrist" from The God's Must Be Crazy comes to mind.)

The previous owner had stated for the 2 years he had owned it he had never even put it into four wheel drive however on getting home I noted it had always been in four wheel drive. While engaged it makes a slapping noise from the gear box in first and reverse, I think is caused by worn parts. Also while in four wheel drive the vehicle is able to do up to about 90km/h, yet when in two wheel drive it revs at the max tollerable pulling 80 km/h, any ideas as to why?

What damage could have been done by driving with four wheel drive engaged for such a long time? And what would be causing the slapping noise in first and reverse?

Rolr. 8)

P.S. Could any one tell me the pitfalls they have experienced with a Holden motor conversion and anything I should be looking out for.

[tony]

G'day rolr,

Thats mighty perculier are you sure its been in four wheel drive for the last two years I would have thought the wind up would have ither blown the T- case up or you would have broken the axles

Also the gearing is lower in 4 wheel drive than when in 2 wheel drive so it would rev its tits off and not go as fast as when u are in in 2 wheel drive.........so 80 in 4x4 & 90 in 2 wheel dont make any sence.

what sort of slaping noise is it??is it there all the time when in first or reverse does it go away when the clutch is in or when your rolling or when your driveing......


Tony

[Hellspawn]

Maybe the rear brakes are dragging ? By that it would be easier for the drivetrain to turn 4 wheels than two dragging ones, hence the higher speed in high four. So have a bopeep by jacking up each wheel and spin to see if brakes are dragging. Adjust accordingly.

No change in ratio between high four and two wheel but the holden is never happy without overdrive at 100ks regardless. Though the holden is a blessing in the rough country, can usually drive along with feet off the pedals using the engine torque rather than revs and definately keep your left foot off the clutch.

Depends on where you are to driving in 4x4 all the time. Not good on pavement (reasons mentioned) but I can drive around the farm in 4by without drama. So long as diagonal opposite wheels can slip, tyre wear is about all that happens.

Gearbox trouble.... can't help you there. A suggestion would be take the floor out, lift off the selector fork cover plate and have a look. Might have teeth missing from the gears or too much float on the mainshaft.

[Landroverterry]

I'm sorry to say this but it sounds as if you have a rear diff problem. I had a faulty rear diff in my IIA and acceleration and top speed in 2 wheel drive was attrocious but when in 4WD high range the old beast flew. This would be much more noticable with a tired 4 cylinder than a 6 as you have. Get the diff checked out. If, as you have been told, 4WD has never been used, then this could quite possibly be the case and the seller has only put it in 4WD for the sale to make it run better.

[Hellspawn]

Terry

When you talk about crook rear diff.... what was the problem, carrier bearings ?

[Landroverterry]

Jay
It turned out to be a loose pinion. I suspect the collapsable spacer in between the pinion bearings was collapsed more than usual, probably caused by trying to snatch pull immovable objects, felled trees, with a chain. This was in a Salisbury diff too. They (the writers of THE bible ) reccommend that the tension be very little and to do the nut up to the previous number of turns on reassembly after being disassembled, Ha Ha. I did it up to what I reckonned it should be and problem went away. Diff still a bit noisy, but no more than normal. Who can tell in an old 2A.
If gears are misalligned there can be quite an appreciable drag. and when 4WD is engaged the front axle pulling will straighten the drive as it were, and PULL or RELIEVE the drive off the rear axle, allowing the vehicle to run easier because the gears are not binding as much.
I just thought the rear diff being used ALL the time, the bearings could be worn out of allignment and cause the same problem.
The cost of repairs to a diff can be a good incentive to get rid of an older vehicle, but I have seen plenty of diffs, both L/rover and Salisbury for sale at reasonable prices, and I am sure even someone on this website knows of or has one for a reasomable price.
Regards
Terry[/b]

[LandyAndy]

Hi
To test Terrys theory one could take the drive members off the rear axles,so the rear diff is free wheeling.
Andrew

[Hellspawn]

Yeah I was thinking simple stuff, brakes being a usual suspect but you're probably right. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif

Perhaps the solution could also be drop the diff out, stick it in the bench vice and do some measuring with prussian blue and feelers. I mentioned carriers thinking there might have been noise, slightly audible over the rest of the engine room. In my experience if if there is that much wear or slack something else normally gives squignals. That drive should be flopping around like a ....... in a sock in essence ...... "clunk clunk clunk clunk" as the vehicles driven and the oil seal would be leaking.... well more than usual.

Had a loose imput shaft on our pecan harvestor once, knew something wasn't right as the PTO shaft looked like spinning soft licorice, gearbox oil streaming out the oil seal but the dead give away was the thumpthumpthumpthump of the shaft pounding the bearings. Cost a bit in time but four new bearings, speedie sleeve and standard oil seal later good as it ever was. Just always figure mechanical stuff "talks" to you when there's a problem so I'm surprised there hasn't been a mention of noises. :?

[rolr]

Thanks all,

Yes there is a definate Clunk Clunk Clunk (it sounds like something moving forward and back on a spring slapping) when slowly moving off initially forward or reverse but it goes away after the clutch has been fully let out and yes oil every where from the front of the gear box, more than I was expecting. This was only occuring in 4x4 and has ceased now in 2x, I'll start simple and give the brakes and the diff a look this weekend as recommended to see what the go is there and the selector cover for the noise.

The first I knew it was left in 4x4 was when I took it out bush for a test drive shortly after buying it (having driven defenders over the last 15 or so years for work I didn't know about the 2x 4x bit), as I was about to go across a water obstacle I went to engage 4x4 as instructed (push down on yellow knob) and noticed it was already engaged but the hubs had not been locked, I had already driven about 150-200 km's at speed on a highway until this point. I crossed the obstacle and on the other side I disengaged it and when moving off again I noticed the clunking had gone away. I am suspecting the forward prop shaft area or something more sinister in the clutch.

Other than that the car is a beaut to drive and it takes hours to get the grin off my dial.

The Bloke I bought it off did not appear to know much about it, he drove it to work every day and that he bought it off a bloke in QLD who had done the conversion.

This advise should fill the next couple of weekends trying to identify the cause and thanks for the info it certainly narrows it down considerably.

Cheers.
ROLR

[rolr]

Just a thought,

could the bloke who did the conversion have somehow done something to the selector position i.e. put it back to front so that down is 2x and up is 4x??? clutchin at straws.

ROLR

[Phoenix]

Reversing the knob would erquire inverting the transfer case or doing something really bizzare. If you take the transmission tunnel cover off you will see that the lever is a pretty simple one. So I doubt that is the problem.

[Dinty]

Check the selector shafts in the T/case for rust, given the high humidity in the top end and if it has been immersed in H20 it could be rusty and sticking. I had a chap ask me just recently about his overdrive in his S2A 109, he asked how to change the oil in it so I told him, he came back and told me he couldn't find the bits I was talking about, turns out he was told that the overdrive was the GET THIS the Yellow Knob just push it down and you get all this extra GO he was lucky that he didn't blow his transmission with wind up big time

[Landroverterry]

Yeah, the reason I found the loose pinion was the loss of oil out of a buggered seal. Grabbed hold of the uni joint and bugger me, it moved sideways a good 2.5 mil. As for the noise, it is a little bit hard to hear the whine of the diff over the whine of the Firestone SAT's on the bitumen. On dirt there was no way to hear it over the rattles of the body and gravel on the underside.
Regards
Terry style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif

[rolr]

The slapping noise was coming from the front prop shaft, I tried locking the hubs, in 4x, no slapping noise, I tried with the hubs unlocked...slapping, and in 2x no noise. So the problem is solved.

The speed does not concern me that much at present just wondered why the difference in performance. I was considering putting in a higher speed transfer case but have read differring reports on them in the British magazines but mostly good so when the funds permit I'll buy one and probably recondition the rear diff at the same time.

[Hellspawn]

Flogged out uni joint or pinion as terry suggested. Big biccies for a reco diff. Suggest do the job yourself, plenty of peeps here to help you. Remember because we have seperate bearings for axles and wheels you can drive the vehicle with the diff out. Just remember to fill the holes with cloth to stop dirt getting in and dont put the axles back until the diff's in. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif

Yeah you kinda get that way after driving "da wover"... maniacal grin for hours after the experience. Also as you already have found.... nicer to just cruise along. We (hellspawn and me) used to do the gallop (120+ in overdrive) everywhere, now we find it more fun to cruise at 90, getting blown away on the flatter stretches of road and wave when we overtake them on hills when they lose ground. :twisted:

[mike109]

G'day

I've had a few of these beasts over the years and this is what I would suggest you do.

1. Get some degreaser, get underneath and give everything a bloody good clean. That way, you will be able to see what is going on.

2. Put it on level ground, handbrake off, out of gear and wheels chocked.

3. Get underneath and waggle things. Waggle the propshaft, the universals, rotate the propshafts and see how much play is in the splines and in the diffs. There should be no movement in any of these things except the diff should have a few degrees of play on rotation.

4. Let all the oils out. Now look at the oil. Metal bits? Sparkles in the sun? Black? Look like Salad Dressing? Oil should be clean and topped up. The gearbox will leak a bit from the selector shafts but should not leak from the output seals. If it does, replace the seals. Refill transmission with a Mild Gearbox oil such as Castrol VMX80. Ep 80-90 in the diffs and swivels. And don't forget the poor forgotten steering box and steering relay.

5. Check that the handbrake is not over adjusted. This will cause a clank clank noise.

I suspect you will find that the propshafts are well worn in the splines, and in the universals. They need to be greased quite often - even every 1000km or so if you are off road or even more if you play in mud. The manual says every day!!!

Holden engines (especially the 202) don't like to rev. A Land Rover at 100kph is doing about 5000rpm and your Holden won't last long if you drive it at this speed. You need overdrive if you want to drive more than about 85kph AND you want the engine to last more than about 60,000km.

Make sure too that the spring the pushes the yellow know up is strong enough to do so and that the lever is not bent so it jams in the floor fitting (like mine does!).. When you pull the red lever back (into low range) the yellow know should pop up immediately.

You do not need freewheeling hubs. For years, Rovers were not fitted with them. I lock mine once I hit the dirt and unlock them once I am back in town. These days, I don't bother with them at all.. If you have them, they must be locked a fair bit of the time to make sure the top RAILKO bush in the front swivel housing gets oiled. It relies on the spinning propshaft to throw oil up at it. If you jack up the front wheels and can feel movement in the swivel pins, then this bush is probably worn.

Have fun - in good condition, they are really quite reliable.

Michael
http://members.ozemail.com.au/~mikeleys

[Hellspawn]

5000rpm in 4th at 100 ? must have different diff to mine. 5000 is about 120 in mine and 5000 in O/D is almost off the clock as speedo's 10ks out. Not that you can hear much at that speed ........ 80~90 is a good speed ! 8)

No... I'd say the biggest problem with the holden is too much power for the gearbox... change hard too many times and bang ! It's great if you bumping and banging in the scrub but it's a bugger on soft sand drifts as you bog in pretty quickly if you don't change back to get revs up and certainly don't have time to nurse it through the shift. Same with the black mud about the Downs and West as that stuff clogs up the guards and gradually chokes the wheels putting all the load back on that gearbox. I actually put a 5º twist in my thrid/fourth syncro from too much right welly coming off the beach.... motor didn't even labour.... and that was before I sheared half the teeth of third gear itself... But that's another story.

[Rolr1]

Thanks all,

Been under it and over it all over the last couple of weeks, most of the problems were caused by the old wear and tear, nothing a bit of grease and a spanner didn't fix.

Covered in grease,oil and grime i come out still with the maniacal grin style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif just playing with my landi.

All the levers work perfectly no sticking, the same noise comes from the front when in 4x4 but that does not affect the running of the vehicle. Diffs are fine as far as I can tell, will be getting hi speed transfer case definately.

Thanks again for the advice, I'll no doubt be on again when the kit arrives.

One thing i have noticed is on the instrument panel there is a two pin plug output, I think it is a military item, any one know what it is?

Rolr 8)

[mike109]

G'day

They are simply power sockets. They connect more or less directly to the battery (no fuses) with some quite heavy cable and can be used for a light or any other 12 volt device. (It is worth checking the polarity with a meter before hooking up your radio as early Land Rovers were + earth).

They have been there on all Land Rovers back to 1948.

Because they are unfused, they need to be used carefully.

You used to be able to buy a special Lucas plug which fits them but they are no longer generally available. Normal Banana plugs are generally too large. Don't try to drill them out as they are quite thin walled and drilling usually stuffs them.

The original plugs were made of simple brass rod which was split so it would stay in the hole. I think the + and the - are different sizes. Even the Range Rover still had them into the 1980s. I have them in my 1979 Range Rover and I even have the plug!!.

Michael