Water Leak - RRS

[101RRS]

Driving back from Newcastle to Canberra yesterday through the major downpours I noticed a drip coming into the passenger footwell. Not a lot but enough. I have noticed it before but was when the car was parked and I had opened the door in the rain and thought is was from the outside.

The water drips from the area at the bottom of the glove box well back from the firewall so not likely to be coming from the bottom of the windscreen.

My old D1 used to suck in rain through the ventilation system and I am wondering if the same could be happening with the RRS as just where the drip comes out is the pollen filter. The A/c is not blocked and only happens in heavy rain.

Any ideas - anyone else have the same issue?

Thanks

Garry

[jonesfam]

If it is very humid (like raining) could be condensation on the A/C evaporator/condenser (always muddle up which way round they go).
If it is the drain pipe is blocked up.
Could be dust, mud, bugs, wasps or who knows.
I don't know where the pipe is on a RRS but that would be the first thing to look at, doesn't matter if the A/C is clean if the drain is blocked.
Jonesfam

[sheerluck]

Is it the A-Pillar covers? I recall reading on Disco3 that the clips that hold those covers on frequently leak.

[101RRS]

If it is very humid (like raining) could be condensation on the A/C evaporator/condenser (always muddle up which way round they go).
If it is the drain pipe is blocked up.
Could be dust, mud, bugs, wasps or who knows.
I don't know where the pipe is on a RRS but that would be the first thing to look at, doesn't matter if the A/C is clean if the drain is blocked.
Jonesfam

Thanks but as I indicated in my post the A/c is not blocked.

Cheers

Garry

[V2Evo96]

The A pillar leaks that sheerluck referred to were the subject of Technical Bulletin LA-501-006 issued 07.07.2005 for D3 models.

I know you are referring to your 07RRS but it may be worth asking your friendly LR dealer about it......

[Geedublya]

Do you have a sunroof?

If so check the drains.

[sheerluck]

The A pillar leaks that sheerluck referred to were the subject of Technical Bulletin LA-501-006 issued 07.07.2005 for D3 models.

I know you are referring to your 07RRS but it may be worth asking your friendly LR dealer about it......

I'm not sure about how similar the RRS is on the A-pillars compared to the D3, but there is an updated part number for the clips, which apparently seal better, part number DHB500400.

[101RRS]

Thanks for the information on the pillars. No sunroof.

Given the small amount of water coming in the pillars are worth looking at - but would the water run down to the base of the pillar and then drip down - the leak I have is a good 9" further back in the cabin where the glove box lid hinges at the bottom.

But then the actual leak could be at the firewall and the water is running along fixtures to the rear of the dash and then dripping down.

Maybe I need to take the glove box lid off and put the car under a sprinkler and check to see what is going on.

Cheers

garry

[morpheus]

Garry,

The exact same thing happened to my D3 only yesterday. A very, very small leak from under the glove box (like five drops in an hour or so) from the rain in Canberra. Dealer is going to have a look at it, and reckons it might be the condenser, but I have driven around all arvo with the ac on to see if it is the culprit and I can't get any leak. Weird. If I find anything out post trip to the dealer I will let you know.

Cheers

James

[101RRS]

Yes - thanks - your drip rate is about the same as mine - made the mat damp but did not go all the way through to the floor carpet. Only happens in rain.

Garry

[the_preacher1973]

Third one here! Just back from Sydney and it absolutely bucketed down coming down Cunningham's Gap this afternoon. SWMBO complained of drips in the passenger foot well leaking from the bottom of the hinge of the glovebox. I really should have opened the glovebox fully and checked in behind but after 12 hours and 950km and with 3 young kids I just backed it into the garage. Please report back your findings if you have any luck.

[morpheus]

So, I had it looked at briefly today and they think have sorted it; however they are going to have a better look at it next week.

The panel (under the glove box) had come loose and one of the drains was not lined up correctly. This has been corrected.

That said, they noted a few aftermarket wires were present (previous owner had installed long range tank and brake controller) so they said moisture could work its way in there too. They will have a good look at the trim and grommets on Monday. It has been wet again today, and I have noticed no more leaks.

James

[101RRS]

The panel (under the glove box) had come loose and one of the drains was not lined up correctly.

Did they say what the drains - drain.

[morpheus]

Not specifically. They did say that some grommets, if not in place properly can act as a vacuum and draw in moisture. That and the condenser can cause condensation around the pipes etc. They said the drains are there to draw away any moisture though they didn't say where it drains.

[the_preacher1973]

Finally got around to having a look at mine yesterday.

Checked sunroof drains - ok.
Checked pollen filter inside glovebox - dry.
Checked passenger A pillar trim and found it to be loose at the bottom.

Apparently they leak around where the lower leg of the A pillar trim is inserted into the body work.

The LR Service bulletin instructs you to cut off this lower leg and glue a patch onto the body to prevent future water ingress. The repair kit DHB500400 contains this patch.

Service bulletin here:

http://www.lrservice.ru/data/404/LA501-007.pdf

[the_preacher1973]

Thanks for the information on the pillars. No sunroof.

Given the small amount of water coming in the pillars are worth looking at - but would the water run down to the base of the pillar and then drip down - the leak I have is a good 9" further back in the cabin where the glove box lid hinges at the bottom.


Cheers

garry

Mine is leaking in exactly the same spot and definitely has faulty A pillar trim so unless I have more than one problem it would appear it's possible for the water to migrate to there.

[101RRS]

Service bulletin here:

http://www.lrservice.ru/data/404/LA501-007.pdf


Thanks

That only covers a D3 - I don't suppose if you know of one for the RRS?

Garry

[Redback]

Yes - thanks - your drip rate is about the same as mine - made the mat damp but did not go all the way through to the floor carpet. Only happens in rain.

Garry

I'll put my money on the A-pillar also, this was one we looked at when we had our leak coming from that area, it's a well known fault, although not according to the dealer we used or LRA, that is until we pointed them to their own bulletin:spudnikwhat:

Baz.

[the_preacher1973]

Thanks

That only covers a D3 - I don't suppose if you know of one for the RRS?

Garry

This ones for the RRS. You'll need to register. Looks identical to the D3 one but the part no. for the fixing kit is different.

RangeRovers.net Forum (http://www.rangerovers.net/forum/attachments/range-rover-sport-l320/6323d1315778077-pillar-trim-not-completely-flush-windshield-ls-501-007.pdf)

[morpheus]

Finally got around to having a look at mine yesterday.

Checked sunroof drains - ok.
Checked pollen filter inside glovebox - dry.
Checked passenger A pillar trim and found it to be loose at the bottom.

Apparently they leak around where the lower leg of the A pillar trim is inserted into the body work.

The LR Service bulletin instructs you to cut off this lower leg and glue a patch onto the body to prevent future water ingress. The repair kit DHB500400 contains this patch.

Service bulletin here:

http://www.lrservice.ru/data/404/LA501-007.pdf


Thanks, I will take this with me when I take the vehicle back on Monday.

James

[morpheus]

So, I just thought I would post an update prior to going to the dealer tomorrow. It has been bucketing all morning here in Canberra and there is no leak (unlike my house..) - so the leak/moisture only seems to occur when the vehicle is on the move. Yesterday the padding inside the panel under the glove box was damp when I was driving around in the arvo, but I couldn't say for sure whether this is from moisture being vacuumed into the area from outside or from the condenser (although I only had the air on for a little while).

Hopefully will know more tomorrow.

[101RRS]

Same as my car -parked outside in the rain and no issues.

[morpheus]

So the dealer reckons the probes was a blocked air conditioner drain, which has now been unblocked. I guess I will know whether it was this (or not) once we have some soggy weather again.

[the_preacher1973]

So the dealer reckons the probes was a blocked air conditioner drain, which has now been unblocked. I guess I will know whether it was this (or not) once we have some soggy weather again.

Oh goodie. Looks like we all have different leaks. Just more to look forward to I guess.

If it took Land Rover 70 years to find a way to stop headlining falling down, how long will it take to stop water leaks.

I've got a tip for them: Don't drill ****ing holes in the A pillars!

[Geedublya]

If it took Land Rover 70 years to find a way to stop headlining falling down, how long will it take to stop water leaks.

What makes you think they have sorted this out?

[morpheus]

It has been raining for the past few days, I think Canberra has has had in excess of 45 mils in two days - and the leak has returned. Again, only from driving; although the conditions were very wet and the wipers were on full pelt. The padding behind the panel located under the glove box was saturated after a 35 minute drive to work. Completely dry before I set off.

Car spent the whole day at the dealership yesterday and they tried all sorts of theories but could not get it to leak. Finally, they narrowed the water ingress to the windscreen - which baffled them as leaks here are not common it seems. It turns out that the bloke who traded the car had his windscreen replaced only days before he handed over the vehicle. He had unfortunately chipped the windscreen badly. So it looks like we (dealership and me) will be contacting the windscreen outlet on Monday. I will keep you all posted.

I have to say the dealership here in Canberra has been fantastic. I have had a courtesy car for the two times it has been looked at and the attention the vehicle has got has been excellent. Although they are not really my thing they gave me a new Evoque, which was bloody nice (four-door the first time and two-door the second). Good thing my wife wasn't with me!! Made me appreciate the height and drive of the D3 even more though.

[101RRS]

Sorry to hear that.

But didn't the dealer already fix it as supposedly the a.c was leaking - more likely they didn't have a clue and just went for the obvious and I guess charged you accordingly.

I don't normally go near dealers unless really forced to - they really have no idea on most things and repair by replacement until things are fixed and charge for all the unnecessary work done.

Garry

[morpheus]

Perhaps. But they didn't charge me cent (both times). Nor should they as I had only bought it from them two weeks ago.

I did say that they thought they had fixed it. I was a bit dubious as it wasn't raining when they said this so I/they had no means to check that their fix was right, at the time. With the recent wet weather we know it wasn't right.

[powella]

... Scratch that... Just read page two...

[morpheus]

Yeah, I did bring up the service bulletin up the first time I dropped off the car and they had it up on their screens as was talking to them. I have no idea whether they actually did it though. To be honest, I'd rather they tried this before bothering some poor bugger about the windscreen when it might have nothing to do with them.

[101RRS]

May very well have been the screen change but not the actual windscreen itself.

My windscreen was changed about 18 months ago and there was no leak before hand and none that I noticed afterwards until recently. I watched them put the screen in and it was correctly sealed as they used a bit too much glue and had a bit of a task cleaning the excess up.

When I ordered the screen I also required them to have new clips for the windscreen pillar trim. When they were putting the trims back on I noticed they ran a bead of windscreen glue down the piller and inside the trim. When I questioned them on this they said they had previously had a couple of occasions where the trim had come off after windscreen repairs and this helped stop this issue.

I accepted that at the time but I now wonder whether they did actually have new clips or just used the glue to replace the clips - I have not have an issue with fitting or then moving.

Alternatively, maybe it is as simple as pulling the clips out mucks up the sealing done as part of the service bulletin and the windscreen techs not being Landrover do not about it and have not resealed the holes where the clips go in.

I am tempted not to worry about mine as even in the heaviest rain the drip is not enough to soak through the mats, let alone into the carpet and underfelt etc.

Cheers

Garry

[SBD4]

....

I am tempted not to worry about mine as even in the heaviest rain the drip is not enough to soak through the mats, let alone into the carpet and underfelt etc.

Cheers

Garry

Geez Garry you are game, maybe that small amount of water is not all the water leaking in and who knows what the water is dripping on/running over to get to its final resting spot. then there's the raised humidity when the car heats up in the sun with inevitable condensation in tricky places... to many what ifs for me.

[morpheus]

Garry, I know what you mean. It is only a small leak and it only seems to come about in heavy weather. Like SBD4 I worry about where else the water is going, and eventually rust. I am a big frustrated that this hasn't been resolved as yet; however the only way to know whether any solution has worked seems to be waiting until there is heavy rain and driving in it.

[101RRS]

Well maybe but given the leak is very small and only happens in extreme rain when driven at speed and does not leak any other time, I think there will be more issues having to pull the dash apart to find out what is exactly going on.

In my experience pulling dashes apart leads to small bits breaking and the dash is never the same again with little squeaks and misalignment.

The amount of water that comes into the car is less than what is on your shoes when getting in and out in the rain and certainly less than the amount of water that enters the car when opening the door when raining heavily.

However if the issue gets worse I will have to start to go looking.

Cheers

Garry

[101RRS]

As O'Brian's did my windscreen 18 months ago out of curiosity I rang them concerning their warranty. Lifetime warranty which is great to know and I was put through to the local office.

They said they doubt it is the windcreen sealing itself and said it would be the ventilation plenum filling with water and tehn flowing into the cabin - all believable as that used to happen with my D1.

I indicted that the most likely leak was via the holes in the pillar which was the subject of the service advice - their view is that would not be their issue but I suggested that if they pull off the trims then they had an obligation to reseal - the technician did not seem to understand that aspect.

They did offer to test the car for leaks using their "special high pressure" system but I doubt a test done by the actual installer will actually show anything.

I might pull the outer pillar trim off and seal the holes and make where the clips go waterproof and see how I go.

Garry

[the_preacher1973]

They said they doubt it is the windcreen sealing itself and said it would be the ventilation plenum filling with water and tehn flowing into the cabin - all believable as that used to happen with my D1.

Garry

Have you checked the pollen filter behind the glove box after the car has leaked?

Also, my car leaks in heavy rain or the car wash. So at least I won't have to wait for heavy rain to check my repair. Still waiting for the kit to arrive though...

[101RRS]

Did some testing the other day with the hose on spray - no water came in al all but when I shoved the hose up between the piller and the outer trim water rushed in but was not dripping from the area of the pollen filter but running out the bottom of the kick panel - clearly running in through the holes in the pillar and running down the inside of the kick panel.

Now my carpets are well and truly wet - gotta remove all the trim and dry the carpets out once the rain stops - been raining every day now for three weeks - the grass and seed is now growing so quick even the black ants cannot get the seed before it sprouts.

How do you get the outer piller trim off without wrecking the trim.

Cheers

Garry

[irondoc]

i think the A-pillar trim cover always gets broken. $90 or something like that from Landrover.

I pulled it off (gently) to run some wires up there, broke top and bottom fixed bits and a couple of the trim clips. You can buy the trim clips separately from the UK, but I broke two fixed plastic bits.

I put the new one on then realised i had goosed something up. I prised it off VERY gently and had a mould to go on, but still managed to break a couple of bits....back to Landrover.

Cheers
Lucas

[Fatso]

Think maybe you should have left well enough alone as in your post 34 . :wasntme:

[the_preacher1973]

Did some testing the other day with the hose on spray - no water came in al all but when I shoved the hose up between the piller and the outer trim water rushed in but was not dripping from the area of the pollen filter but running out the bottom of the kick panel - clearly running in through the holes in the pillar and running down the inside of the kick panel.

Now my carpets are well and truly wet - gotta remove all the trim and dry the carpets out once the rain stops - been raining every day now for three weeks - the grass and seed is now growing so quick even the black ants cannot get the seed before it sprouts.

How do you get the outer piller trim off without wrecking the trim.

Cheers

Garry

Certainly seems you have the same problem as me.

As for removing the trim, I'll let you know when I've done it. My clips have definitely failed at the bottom though so I can already lift the trim up enough to see the holes in the body work. Hoping this may help in removing the trim without causing further damage. Assuming of course that it's not the trim piece that's failed in the first place...

[101RRS]

Double post

[101RRS]

Think maybe you should have left well enough alone as in your post 34 . :wasntme:

Yes :( - now I do have wet carpets that I cannot get dry.

It is all SBD4's fault:o ;)

[the_preacher1973]

Yes :( - now I do have wet carpets that I cannot get dry.

It is all SBD4's fault:o ;)

But at least you now know what the problem is.

Could even be worth taking to the dealers as the quoted time for repair is 10 minutes...

[101RRS]

Could even be worth taking to the dealers as the quoted time for repair is 10 minutes...

Charged in hour blocks :(

[SBD4]

Yes :( - now I do have wet carpets that I cannot get dry.

It is all SBD4's fault:o ;)

Sorry Garry:p

Given the amount of rain around at the moment, I hope you get it sorted out soon.

[101RRS]

I have not driven the car since I hosed it down.

As mentioned there was a bit of water in the footwell coming from under the kick panel. I had mopped the water up so the carpets were just damp.

Even though the rain has been light and no new water had come in, when I took the car for a drive down to the shops water rushed in from under the kick panel - so much so the water was about 1cm deep in the lowest section of the floor.

It looks like there must be water traps in the door jam area under the pillar that fills up with water and then over flows down the floor. In my case it looks as if these traps were full of water and as soon as the car moved it all dumped inside - enough water to fully soak a standard sized bath towel.

So it would seem that the pillar leaks but due to the trim not a lot of water gets in and then is collected by these water traps in the door jam where it normally evaporates away with the use of the A/C. It gets caught out when the rain if very heavy and sustained where these traps get filled. In light rain it never gets into the cabin.

The obvious answer is to block the holes in the pillar. I might add that it is only the passenger side that leaks and the drivers side is dry - each side mirrors each other so I guess the driver's side pillar is sealed and the passenger is not.

Garry

[morpheus]

Garry,

This has been my experience too - well apart from the hose/flooded compartment :o . The last few days I have not had any leaks or moisture found in the area around the hinge of the glovebox although the conditions have only seen light rain. The trim on the a pillar seem loose at the base on both drivers and passenger sides although, as you gave said, the leak only seems to occur on the passenger side.

I didn't even up bothering windscreen obrien as I haven't had a leak since I was at the dealer last time. Either they (dealer) fixed it as they were mucking around with all sorts of trim, or I have the same thing going on as you and need heavy rain for it to overflow (albeit a very small amount of moisture).

James

[Armitage_Shanks]

It looks like there must be water traps in the door jam area under the pillar that fills up with water and then over flows down the floor. In my case it looks as if these traps were full of water and as soon as the car moved it all dumped inside - enough water to fully soak a standard sized bath towel.

So it would seem that the pillar leaks but due to the trim not a lot of water gets in and then is collected by these water traps in the door jam where it normally evaporates away with the use of the A/C. It gets caught out when the rain if very heavy and sustained where these traps get filled. In light rain it never gets into the cabin.



Hey Garry. On the weekend I was in the process of replacing all my interior globes with LED's. Whilst doing the front passenger puddle light, I noticed that the body drainage points on my RRS were full of debris. Dirt and leaves.
You can see the condition of the drainage points/flutes when you have the front door open.
I removed the front section of trim from the inner wheel guard, to the rear of the front wheel (not sure I'm explaining that very well). I hosed out all the built up grime and leaves from there. I also noticed a very soft grommet in a hole between the drainage flute and the cabin.
This is where all the water from the windscreen goes once it drains off the screen and down the pillars. If the drainage points are clogged, and by the looks of them they would clog easily, I would imagine that water would ingress into the cabin. Also, if the grommet is missing or damaged water will easily enter the cabin at the passenger foot-well.
Food for thought maybe.

[101RRS]

Thanks for that information however I am not sure I follow all of it as there are no drain holes visible when the the door is open. However I do agree that if there was dirt and leaves blocking the drains in the air ventilation plenum there could be an overflow issue.

I took the plenum cover off and the plenum was clear of leaves - I put my snake scope down the holes and all was clear. I also put the hose into the plenum and the water drained away with nothing going inside.

I managed to remove the A pillar trim without breaking the clips. All the clips were damp where they go through the holes in the pillar - also the service action to fix a possible leak in the pillar has not been done.

The holes up the pillar where the clips go could leak (as said were damp) but really only drops at a time. Interestingly the clips that hold the plenum cover in place have a rubber ring on them to seal them, even though they do not need it and the A pillar trim clips do not have this seal and should have them.

The bottom hole which is the subject of the service action is elongated and does not take a clip just a retaining pin moulded into the trim and some sponge material surrounding it.

When I put it all back together I will some rubber over the elongated hole and put some silastic around the clips where they go through the metal in the pillar.

When driving in very heavy rain with the ventilation fan on I can see how water vapour could be sucked into the cabin - direct water could not get in due to the a diverting panel in the plenum cover. Water can however get up between the A pillar and its cover and down the elongated hole when travelling at speed.

Also when parked downhill (as my car is in the drive) water can also come off the roof and down the inside of the pillar cover and through the elongated hole at the bottom. The sealing at the top of the A pillar does not go all the way across the pillar so allows the water in.

So - hopefully fixed.

Garry

[matt_ali_walsh]

Hey Garycol,
you've peaked my interest with your mention of the top of the A pillar. We've not had our car long, and a lot af water was leaking into the drivers floor. Blacklocks in Albury (it has to be said they are great to get along with), found a missing grommet in the A pillar, which we thought was the problem. No more wet carpet, but the car was parked in the rain yesterday, sloping down to the left & water appeared at the centre of the roof lining, coming out around the light. I wonder could the A pillar leak at the top, and do you know of a fix? We otherwise love this car, but don't really want musty smells in it. We are over 200 K from the nearest dealer, so I'd really like to fix this ourselves.
Cheers
Matt

[101RRS]

If the leak is in the centre of the roof and near the interior light then it is definitely not from the pillar - the first holes are a couple on inches down so any leak would appear further down - not higher.

The only thing I can think of is the sealing at the top of the windscreen.

Garry

[matt_ali_walsh]

I doesn't seem likely to be the windscreen - the ONLY time it's leaked is when it's been parked on an angle - otherwise it's dry, even in driving rain....... It's a pain alright :(

[the_preacher1973]

I doesn't seem likely to be the windscreen - the ONLY time it's leaked is when it's been parked on an angle - otherwise it's dry, even in driving rain....... It's a pain alright :(

Do you have a sunroof?

[matt_ali_walsh]

No I don't.....

[CaverD3]

Has the windscreen been replaced?

[matt_ali_walsh]

No - it's original. Drove in fog heavy enough for wipers for two hours yesterday and not a sign on a leak. Intermittent faults are a pain!!!! :mad: