D4 Abuse

[mikehzz]

I had to laugh when I read this on another forum re whether a D4 is any good...

"I had a new 3.0L TDV6. SE
In 2010 we drove from Rocky to Karumba - Lawn Hill - Savannah Way to Darwin - Kunanurra - Gibb River Road - Bungle Bungles - Mitchell Falls - Kalumburu - Broome - Cape Levque - Pilbara - Gunbarrel Hwy - Uluru - Alice - Chambers Pillar - Finke - Oodnadatta - Cooper Pedy - Flinders - Up the Darling - home.

All suspension replaced under warranty .
Front suspension replaced again.
Complete steering system replaced including the steering wheel
Right hand muffler tailpipe broke apart
All 19" rims damaged
On board compressor for suspension replaced
Rear tailgate lock replaced
Numerous computer faults
Numerous flats
Air suspension good but because of the low profile tyres height was still not enough in some cases.
Stability Control must be turned off in sand and mud.
I'd still be on the old Finke Railway if it wasn't for my mate in his Patrol winching me out a few times.
I paid $3,300 for the extended warranty. Lucky I did.

Did a similar trip in my 80 Series a few years ago. 1 flat tyre only.

Disco 4, fantastic vehicle on the bitumen. In my opinion only, I'm sure others will disagree but it's too complicated for the bush."

I reckon the car was telling him he wasn't doing it right. :D

[nat_89]

I had to laugh when I read this on another forum re whether a D4 is any good...

"I had a new 3.0L TDV6. SE
In 2010 we drove from Rocky to Karumba - Lawn Hill - Savannah Way to Darwin - Kunanurra - Gibb River Road - Bungle Bungles - Mitchell Falls - Kalumburu - Broome - Cape Levque - Pilbara - Gunbarrel Hwy - Uluru - Alice - Chambers Pillar - Finke - Oodnadatta - Cooper Pedy - Flinders - Up the Darling - home.

All suspension replaced under warranty .
Front suspension replaced again.
Complete steering system replaced including the steering wheel
Right hand muffler tailpipe broke apart
All 19" rims damaged
On board compressor for suspension replaced
Rear tailgate lock replaced
Numerous computer faults
Numerous flats
Air suspension good but because of the low profile tyres height was still not enough in some cases.
Stability Control must be turned off in sand and mud.
I'd still be on the old Finke Railway if it wasn't for my mate in his Patrol winching me out a few times.
I paid $3,300 for the extended warranty. Lucky I did.

Did a similar trip in my 80 Series a few years ago. 1 flat tyre only.

Disco 4, fantastic vehicle on the bitumen. In my opinion only, I'm sure others will disagree but it's too complicated for the bush."

I reckon the car was telling him he wasn't doing it right. :D


All I can say is my god what a bloody clown that's ridiculous I hope he never buys another discovery again!! Fools like him give LR a bad name!!!

[Plane Fixer]

I did nearly the same trip with 19" rims and have had no problems.
I drove the car accordingly, not bashed it unmercifully over the Chambers Pillar and Bungles track.
In 2 years I have done 65000 and it is still tight with no rattles and a delight to drive. It is light years ahead of my GUII 3.0 Patrol grenade.
Yes the Patrol would cope with bashing it through aforementioned tracks but was nowhere as comfortable to drive on the road. Driven with intelligence the D4 will go just as far and even further than the Patrol and that is the key.

[jon3950]

Air suspension good but because of the low profile tyres height was still not enough in some cases.
Huh?



I paid $3,300 for the extended warranty. Lucky I did.
Lucky they honoured it. A lot of that doesn't sound like warranty work to me.


Driven with intelligence the D4 will go just as far and even further than the Patrol and that is the key.

You know, you just might be on to something there. :D

Mike, I don't suppose you would care to share which forum this was? I could do with a laugh this morning.

Cheers,
Jon

[discovery4]

It was Exploroz.


Cheers
Bob

[jonesy63]

I did a trip a bit longer than that to almost all of those locations and didn't have any issues. Well, I did get a ride height sensor issue when crossing the last river out of Bungle Bungles - which I had to turn my D4 off and then back on again to clear. Oh, I also had a "washer fluid level low" message too! :D

[BobD]

A lot of those things he has mentioned were changed on my 2010 D4 3l under warranty before I bought it and it had only been driving around Sydney. Probably why the previous owner sold it at 50,000km. Early in its life mine had new front bushes, new steering rack, new stearing wheel and controls and I think something else as well. I think all that stuff on mine was to do with vibrating brakes on the 2010 D4 according to some posts I have seen.

I bought it in Jan 2012, drove it back to Perth and am now up to 152,000. I have driven across Australia a few times, twice on the Great Central Road. Did a 4 week trip to Cape York via all the gravel available and back to Perth via the Kimberleys. Last year did Darwin / Lichfield / Kakadu and back via Great Central Road. My LCA's needed replacing after that and the rear shocks were stuffed. As others have said, no rattles, nothing loose, still drives like new, provided you keep up any necessary maintenance.

I can't fault its abilities on or off road. However, maintenance items such as EPB, shocks, control arms, compressor etc are expensive and more fragile than Patrols or Cruisers. I think his opinion is coloured a bit by the problems that the early D4s had which were fixed under warranty.

The fact that his stock D4 has done most of the roughest tracks in Australia is pretty remarkable though. Not many stock cars of any brand have done all that and apart from his wheels and tyres most of the issues are known D4/D3 wear items or the initial D4 teathing problems.

Bob

[Tombie]

It was Exploroz.


Cheers
Bob

Enough said... Average IQ and development on that forum barely gets most Walking Upright and even then they're knuckles are often still dragging.

And the other end of the spectrum on there take longer times to pack their Zimmer frames away than they actually drive for...

[CaverD3]

All 19" rims damaged

Driven by an idiot.


On board compressor for suspension replaced

Known issue for that model LR were using bad remaining stock Hitachi compressors as result of Japanese tsunami.
Replaced with AMK compressor.


[/QUOTE]Numerous flats[/QUOTE]

Probably kept the OEM discoverers on.



Air suspension good but because of the low profile tyres height was still not enough in some cases.

I agree with him on this one standard height is too low for high crowned tracks. That is why you get Llams if you want to faster.


Stability Control must be turned off in sand and mud.
I'd still be on the old Finke Railway if it wasn't for my mate in his Patrol winching me out a few times.

Derrrr!



Did a similar trip in my 80 Series a few years ago. 1 flat tyre only.

I bet it had LTs on.
I would to see him do it in a 200 series.:angel:

[FeatherWeightDriver]

Air suspension good but because of the low profile tyres height was still not enough in some cases.

I stopped reading right there. Who wants to bet this person complains about their speed boat going too slow because they forgot to take it off the trailer? ;):twisted:

PS: If "NextDoor" is these forums - please explain, because your original post on exploroz does not exactly lend itself to credibility for your driving capability

Landrover Disco 4 HSE - any issues? @ ExplorOz Forum (http://www.exploroz.com/Forum/Topic/106999/Landrover_Disco_4_HSE_-_any_issues.aspx)

[101RRS]

I must admit the comment about having low profile tyres causes clearance issues made me chuckle - when all standard wheel/tyre combinations have about the same diameter.

Garry

[DI5CO]

And don't forget Patrols crack chassis all the time. I don't think you would see a D 3/4 with a cracked chassis! Lol

[Disco Muppet]

And don't forget Patrols crack chassis all the time. I don't think you would see a D 3/4 with a cracked chassis! Lol

Ask Redback. He bent his according to the dealer :p

[ADMIRAL]

And don't forget Patrols crack chassis all the time. I don't think you would see a D 3/4 with a cracked chassis! Lol

The only Patrol I have ever seen with a cracked chassis, was a coil sprung ute with a tipper conversion, and a Hiab behind the cab. IMO I think another rumour given too much credibility.

[discotwinturbo]

They do crack around the top of the coil holders. You can purchase a fix to strengthen this part.
Only chassis breakages I have seen are from those that weld plates to them to strengthen them, but that seems to cause breakages at the welds....so don't understand why they do that.

Brett...

[DI5CO]

The only Patrol I have ever seen with a cracked chassis, was a coil sprung ute with a tipper conversion, and a Hiab behind the cab. IMO I think another rumour given too much credibility.

I have heard from a source (actually spoken to him) who uses Patrols for his TV show, and was told "Patrols are great, if you don't mind cracked chassis"
Yes, granted they may not be that bad, but it has been known to happen.

[BobD]

I thought this thread was about D4's in the bush, not Patrols.

Personally, I always make sure I have another car with me on remote trips, preferably a Patrol but a Toyota or even a D1 or D3 or D4 will do! Just the fact that the D4 is an auto is a problem because failure of the strarter motor is terminal in a remote place. On our Cape York trip, me and my friend in a 200 series were both worried about the vulnerability of the auto cars due to their reliance on a starter motor and were very conscious of the danger to the starters when doing water crossings.

I was lucky, my starter motor burnt out less than 7 days after returning from the Cape York trip at a Perth shopping centre. There was no warning and when we had a look at it, it was not damaged by dust or water. The windings just decided to expire for no apparent reason. In fact, it looks like the starter is sealed and can't get water into it, which is reassuring. It was replaced under warranty and was the last warranty repair carried out before the warranty expired.

ps My Chev V8 diesel powered 1994 GQ Patrol has done over 500,000 very hard km and hasn't got a cracked chassis or spring towers. It doesn't get used much anymore, now that I have the D4!

Bob

[ozscott]

What is the starter motor issue? Av life?

Cheers

[time2]

You can't push/roll/tow start an Auto.

[Tombie]

You can't push/roll/tow start an Auto.


Not strictly true...

[discotwinturbo]

Not strictly true...

So....please share.

Brett...

[Tombie]

I have observed an older petrol auto tow started.

It took a lot more speed (enough to force the converter to drag enough to turn the engine.

And if you can lock the torque converter manually it will work.

I seriously doubt a modern unit would start though.

[BobD]

Tombie,

I would love to see someone tow start a D4. It is so clever it probably wouldn't allow anything to work without the engine running and would probably not even go into a gear that could be used to start it, even if the electronic protection systems allowed the engine to run. Old mechanical auto transmissions may have some chance, at the risk of damaging the transmission.

I don't think there is any longevity problem with the starter motor. Hopefully mine was just bad luck (or good luck that it didn't happen two weeks earlier on the old telegraph track). Barbagallos couldn't find any reason for the starter to burn out and didn't think it was related to the trip, although someone else also posted some time ago about a starter motor failure after a trip to Cape York.

Bob

[101RRS]

My old Morris 1300 auto could be push started (not tow started). It is the only auto (along with the Mini auto - same gearbox) that I know of that could be push started.

Older autos could be tow started.

Why doesn't someone start on the top of a big hill in their D4 and roll down the hill to see if it does start?:)

Garry

[Tombie]

I'm guessing the tough bit is the electronic integration.
The ECU is expecting a signal from the start button to kick everything going.
I'm hypothesizing that the starter would need the wire disconnected and the test performed!
Not too keen to explore this option!

[CaverD3]

However any modern car will not start with a flat battery even manuals.

[Tombie]

However any modern car will not start with a flat battery even manuals.


Correct!

[101RRS]

However any modern car will not start with a flat battery even manuals.

More precisely any car with an alternator will not start with a flat battery but even with just a little left in the battery this will be enough to excite the alt coils to allow starting if the starter is not used. Not sure about computers etc though.

Garry

[CaverD3]

Err.............coils whats that? :angel:

(on any modern car)

[BobD]

You can still jump start with either a second battery or another car in most circumstances in the bush. With a dead starter the only way out is a tow.

Bob

[BigJon]

Err.............coils whats that? :angel:

(on any modern car)


The thing that makes the high energy spark for petrol engine ignition. They all have them.

[Gerokent]

The thing that makes the high energy spark for petrol engine ignition. They all have them.

I think what he means is the coil of wire in the rotor of the alternator (the one that produce the magnetic feild), not the high voltage spark plug coils.

[101RRS]

to excite the alt coils to allow ..........

Garry


I think what he means is the coil of wire in the rotor of the alternator (the one that produce the magnetic feild), not the high voltage spark plug coils.

Yep - that was what I though I said but most seem to have missed the alt before coil - maybe I should have said alternator coils rather than alt coils.

A lesson - don't assume people will understand abbreviations.

Cheers

Garry

[Graeme]

Some older auto boxes could be tow started because they were fitted with an oil pump driven by the output shaft. IIRC the Borg Warner 35 was one - my father was a tester/inspector on the gearbox production line.

[joel0407]

So will my D2 start if it's towed fast enough? Just if the starter fails in the middle of somewhere (because the middle of nowhere is, well nowhere).

I know this is well off topic but my old FJ40 with the 4.2L 2F petrol motor had a crank handle fitting on the front of the motor with the complete slot out through the bumper. I could never imagine cranking that motor and suspected it possibly for some other purpose. I had no real reason to know it wasn't a crank handle doover, just that it would be ridiculous.

Happy Days

[101RRS]

My 101 with the 3.5 V8 has the ability to be cranked and if the engine is prepared correctly starts OK. Maybe new 4wds should have this ability but maybe some mods might be needed to crank over the diesels.

Garry

[joel0407]

maybe some mods might be needed to crank over the diesels.


Like reduction gearing on the crank. LOL

Happy Days.

[Graeme]

I used to crank-start my 76 RRC and it was much gentler on the wrists than Morris Minors.

[Barryp]

Hi Graeme,
The old Torque Flyte automatic transmission in the Chrysler Valiant VC had an input and output driven transmission oil pumps and could be roll started as well.
Production efficiency and cost reduction targets no doubt deleted the second rear pump over time.
Regards
Barryp

[Graeme]

Thanks Barryp. I wondered how good my memory was because a brother had a VC Valiant in the early seventies so it could have been his gbox that had the 2 pumps rather than the BW35 that my father had a lot to do with at around the same time.

[FeatherWeightDriver]

With a dead starter the only way out is a tow.

Or the foresight / luck to have parked on a hill ;):cool:

When I had a starter motor on the way out, I had roll starts down to a fine art, especially as the driveway wasn't that steep or long so you only got one chance!

[BobD]

Featherweightdriver,


The point is that you can't roll start an auto and all D4's and most D3's are autos in Australia, hence the need for a tow!


Bob

[FeatherWeightDriver]

^^^ Agreed

Poor assumption on my part around the prevalence of auto transmissions in D3 / D4 land

[Rich84]

I would hate for a jap 4x4 driver to see one you guys trying to start a D3/D4/RRS with a crank handle... :P

[BobD]

Most late model Jap 4x4's have the same problem. The majority, if not all, 200 series and Prados are auto.

Bob