Arnott Gen 2 failure .. Help

[wayneg]

Just has a instant rear deflation. Car was raising from highway to std mode at traffic lights. Got home fitted the bypass kit to isolate the corner as car was all over the place. Left rear bag leaking, thought it had burst. Took it off to find the bag had come off under the ring. I cant get it back under so it must be terminal. How good is Arnotts guarantee, I will get on to them now.
I need a loan of a rear bag desperately if any one has one.

[mtb_gary]

Wayne

I'm pretty sure I've got a spare rear gen111 in the shed. I'll have a look as soon as I get home.

Gary

[wayneg]

Wayne

I'm pretty sure I've got a spare rear gen111 in the shed. I'll have a look as soon as I get home.

Gary
Thanks Gary, I now have one sorted.
I have a new front in the garage, should have kept a rear.

Anyone else had this issue? If I Could get the ring back on over the bladder it would be fine but two hours later I have given up ( dont have this problem with LR originals) Have e-mailed Arnotts, not holding my breath but wonders never cease.
I had an issue with one of the cheap copies not so long ago, was only the air inlet fitting leaking a bit, A new fitting would have sorted it. No questions, DHL couriers brought a new complete replacement bag.

[mtb_gary]

I've also got a couple of standard fronts, you never know when they may be needed ;). Do you have any idea what may have caused your blow out? Heavy load? Over extension?

Gary

[wayneg]

I've also got a couple of standard fronts, you never know when they may be needed ;). Do you have any idea what may have caused your blow out? Heavy load? Over extension?

Gary

You tell me, no issues in 4 years, they have done the Holland track in the wet, crossed the Nullarbor twice, Done the w4 challenge, Got me to Israelite Bay and back, untold trips in the bush.
Left rear is the issue
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/04/1271.jpg

[mtb_gary]

I thought it may have been on the new car?

Gary

[wayneg]

The new car has cheapies on it, did not want to splash the cash till I new it was all good.

[Keithy P38]

Arnotts will come through with the goods. They were good for me when I had a similar issue.

[wayneg]

Did you have one pop too?

[Keithy P38]

Yes, rear right, bag came out of the crimp ring. Within 5 days I had a new bag, no questions asked.

[Hoges]

Wayne

I'm pretty sure I've got a spare rear gen111 in the shed. I'll have a look as soon as I get home.

Gary

If you were to go this route, be aware of the different spring rates between a Gen 2 and a Gen 3... mind you,a Gen 3 is no doubt far more comfortable than a block of wood :eek::twisted:

[DT-P38]

My gen2 rear right did the same a while ago.

[wayneg]

Well Arnotts don't want to know unless you purchased directly from them. Advised to take them back to the retailer. Not a lot of good when they were bought on line.
Any one had luck getting the ring back on?

[Keithy P38]

Nope - I handed mine to Brian (goanna_shire) who was working at a truck shop at the time, he had a crack at it and said it'd be possible if you had a new crimp ring and the right size tool to compress it, but otherwise the old one is no good once it's separated from the spring.

[FANTOM P38]

Funny that had same issue with right rear GenIII not long after installed.
Emailed Arnotts with some pics attached and received replacement within few days.
They do come with lifetime warranty and there was no problem getting replacement, good service.
Not had any issue (touch wood ) with new bag.

[PaulP38a]

Think I have only ever seen the rear right go, and that was with Gen 3's, and it was almost always that clamp ring, either due to over-extending the bag or possibly a weakness in the ring-grip or rubber.

Surprised that Arnott's didn't want to know about it. I always found them very accommodating when I was selling their bags through Hard Range. With the few failures I saw in that time, customers would (sometimes) send the bad bags to me, I'd send them a replacement and Arnotts would send me a replacement with the next order.

Who did you get them through Wayne? Wasn't me was it? Think I only ever sold 2 sets of Gen2's.

Cheers, Paul.

[wayneg]

Paul, I got them from the UK, ebay, 4 odd years ago. Arnott say they will only help If I purchased direct from them or go to the original seller if not. As you can see from my pic, Its clearly Arnott and the crimp ring has failed. I suppose 4 years aint bad however they do suggest they give a lifetime warranty.

[Hoges]

If you remove the crimp ring by cutting with a Dremel (for example) where the bag has been displaced, is it not possible to get it re-crimped? just wondering...

[Keithy P38]

That's what Brian tried to do with mine. You'll need to stitch up the crimp ring after you cut it and find some tool that will crimp it. Once cut, it's no good!

[benji]

You may be in for a long trudge through cc statements. .....

I do know that when Denis Altman of Rover Renovations went out of business, a chappy who bought some gen3 bags off him had problems. Arnott suplied the customer with a new bag, even though (supposedly) Denis hadn't paid Arnott for them.
However the customer was in the US.

[Hoges]

That's what Brian tried to do with mine. You'll need to stitch up the crimp ring after you cut it and find some tool that will crimp it. Once cut, it's no good!

sorry Mate didn't express it very clearly (not unusual these days!:() was thinking of an alternative method of crimping...seemed logical that there might be specialist businesses which had the capability of supplying/fitting a suitable crimp. There must be a need somewhere for similar narrow crimping for example, on industrial hoses of say 150-250mm diameter ... will let it percolate in the deep recesses of the grey matter ... !

[Keithy P38]

I get ya now!

A big stainless worm drive hose clamp maybe (yes I am joking). I'm in an industry where there are quite a lot of heavy lubes and big industrial machinery (I don't work on them, I do operate them though), most hydraulic fittings we use are around the 3-4" mark, anything bigger and we use flanged steel pipe.

I'm sure someone out there will know something that might do the job.

[mtb_gary]

Wayne, what about giving WA Air Springs a call? Located in Welshpool.

9350 6811

Gary

[Hoges]

I get ya now!

A big stainless worm drive hose clamp maybe (yes I am joking). I'm in an industry where there are quite a lot of heavy lubes and big industrial machinery (I don't work on them, I do operate them though), most hydraulic fittings we use are around the 3-4" mark, anything bigger and we use flanged steel pipe.

I'm sure someone out there will know something that might do the job.

You may not be too far off the mark! When you look at the photos in Wayneg's original post, there's an indent where the crimp ring seals the bag to the top piston. Obviously this cannot be too tight or it would cut through the wall of the bag. The narrowness of the indentation indicates that while it requires some "bite" it maybe that a retaining ring say along the lines of a lever-operated ring lock of the correct size, as is used for example on paint tins, is all that's required. Keithy, your idea of a heavy duty stainless worm drive hose clamp might indeed be all that's required. After all, the original design self sealed with no ring... just a thought

EDIT: mind you, Arnotts would probably have a fit because such an untested bodge job could bring all sorts of liability issues with it.. but as an emergency repair it might just work!

[wayneg]

So the final outcome is not what I was hoping for.
I ended up getting the original invoice from P38spares.co.uk. They only offer 1 year. Arnotts asked them ( via me ) for the invoice from Arnotts to P38spares. This was produced to Arnotts who then declined to offer a replacement. They stated if I had purchased direct from them and was in the US they would replace under guarantee however as I was in Australia tuff luck. The guarantee is US only.

[Hoges]

All that effort then they play the xenophobic card... Who said US isolationism in this world of globalisation was dead... :twisted::wasntme:

[TheTree]

Hi

That makes the relative price difference between the knock offs and the arnott product even bigger, since arnott offer only limited warranty outside the US :angry:

Steve

[wayneg]

Must agree. I had a standard spring with a faulty o ring replaced foc via DHL from the ebay seller in Canada who also does gen 2 and 3`s. Have had one of their gen 3`s in my hand alongside an Arnott and they are identical apart from the Logo and the type of air fitting ( a minor difference ). For half the price its like free insurance

I recon as others if a suitable clamp could be found the spring could be salvageable as a spare, A heavy duty worm drive clamp or T-bar that was thin enough. The band needs to be 12 to 13 mm wide

[Hoges]

"Norma" is a brand in the hose clamp business... have seen "Normaclamp" fittings of the type you describe available "locally"...as in Australia;) Google them, there's sure to be a suitable clamp for the job.
cheers

[benji]

I'm guessing if the original banding ring was really tight, the bladder would have ripped as opposed to being pulled out.

One issue may be where the bladder folds over the worm bolt.

[Keithy P38]

You read my mind benji! I was thinking Band-it strap too but the clip that holds tension is probably too big. Would have to be a crimp style clamp. Unless it was the upper crimp ring that came off in which case a worm drive clamp would be fine!

[wayneg]

Yes it was the upper ring, the same as on the Gen 3`s. There is no apparent damage to the rubber. The top does not fold over so as long as the clamp did not foul the turret the spring fits into at the top all would be good. I have got the old ring completely off. Was thinking it might be worth putting the bladder and top in the freezer and the steel ring in the oven then try to get it on again.
I have had a look for a adjustable clamp but all I can find are to wide

[Keithy P38]

Oxy torch and liquid nitrogen ;-)

[FANTOM P38]

Yes it was the upper ring, the same as on the Gen 3`s. There is no apparent damage to the rubber. The top does not fold over so as long as the clamp did not foul the turret the spring fits into at the top all would be good. I have got the old ring completely off. Was thinking it might be worth putting the bladder and top in the freezer and the steel ring in the oven then try to get it on again.
I have had a look for a adjustable clamp but all I can find are to wide

Wayne might be worth trying your local Plumbers Supplies as larger clamps are quite common there. Lets know how you go.