285/70 R16s on a puma 90?

[Leroy_Riding]

Whats teh chances of being able to run a 285/70 R16 on a 90?

Diameter is only 20mm over that of a 235/85 R16 but much wider

could I fit them on stock puma wheels? or will I encounter too much rubbing issues?

I will be up for new tires soon (egged one and have a few patches in another and probably 35% tred left anyway)

I will have the Trailer behind me for most trips soon and Ive found the 235's a little skinny (could be beucase I was used to 265's before the defender) seems price from a 265/75 and a 285/70 are pretty close.

Im not asking if I should stick with 235's or not as i know that will be msto peoples recomendations, what I am asking is if anyone has fitted 285/70 R16s to a Puma specificly a 90 if possible and what modifications are needed if any, asuming bigger offset wheels will be needed, that kind fo thing?
and in comparison what is needed for 265/75 r16's.

Thanks
Leroy

[frantic]

Defender section has numerous posts on wider. Yes they will scrub n rub. My td5 with boost alloys +30mm did with 255/85(33.2in).Fitted spacers to Take it to zero. Others with 285 (33in)and 315 (35in)go -25mm offset wheels

[Leroy_Riding]

I had searched and couldnt find anything puma specific about a 285's plent about which is the best tyre and whatnot though.

The boost are the factory weels on a Puma yes?

So i will likely need -25 offset Wheels to get them on, asuming if you needed 0's for 255's I would need 0's to go with a 265 also then. . .

Thanks.

[n plus one]

285s aren't a legal fitment on 7 inch rims?

[Leroy_Riding]

285s aren't a legal fitment on 7 inch rims?

I didnt even think about that. . . hmmmm

thanks.

[steveG]

Interested in why you consider the 235's a "little skinny".
You having traction issues? Falling between the gaps on log bridges or what??

Steve

[Leroy_Riding]

Interested in why you consider the 235's a "little skinny".
You having traction issues? Falling between the gaps on log bridges or what??

Steve

strugling for traction a little though I put that down two the factory AT's

main think is, even with pressures dropped down (25PSI) i find that I am sinking in the mud where friends in larger heavier 4wd's are not who have wider tires AKA 265's and 285's (a few also ahve 315's)
maybe its just all in my head, the 235's seem fine up the beach at 20-25PSI though a bit iffy in the softer stuff though.

did a little reading around, seems it could also be the traction control that is causing my issues not the skinny tires?

Leroy.

[Tombie]

Hello

The 285s aren't legal fitment on 7" rims and will rub on the inner spring perches and front arms increasing the turning circle.

If you want a little more and aren't too bothered by rolling diameter increase then look to the 255/85-16 sizes these are about perfect for a Defender in height and width although they are 33.3" high so without seeking 'approval' they are legally not a 'non certified' modification.

If you are wishing to go a little wider, I would recommend sticking with the 265-75-16 (may rub still, depends where your vehicle was set up factory).

Going too large width wise will penalise you a lot for fuel economy and drag.

Avoid the trend if you can to go too wide, its more about looks than capability.

[n plus one]

strugling for traction a little though I put that down two the factory AT's

main think is, even with pressures dropped down (25PSI) i find that I am sinking in the mud where friends in larger heavier 4wd's are not who have wider tires AKA 265's and 285's (a few also ahve 315's)
maybe its just all in my head, the 235's seem fine up the beach at 20-25PSI though a bit iffy in the softer stuff though.

did a little reading around, seems it could also be the traction control that is causing my issues not the skinny tires?

Leroy.

25psi in a lightly loaded Defender isn't that low a pressure - I would typically go 16psi front, 22psi rear in my 110 at GVM for any decent mud and then go lower from there depending on conditions.

I've run down as low as 6psi in the front in super soft sand - no dramas (particularly on factory alloys which have a far more agresdive safety bead than aftermarket steelie) just don't go fast or turn hard.

Also keep in mind that low pressure tyres heat up and make pressure - 18psi in the morning can be 24psi by lunch - that's 33% increase in pressure which is massive - remember its not the psis it's the percentage change in pressure you need to be focusing on as it is a better indicator of tyre foot print. It's all about foot print - the longer the longer the better!

[gusthedog]

strugling for traction a little though I put that down two the factory AT's

main think is, even with pressures dropped down (25PSI) i find that I am sinking in the mud where friends in larger heavier 4wd's are not who have wider tires AKA 265's and 285's (a few also ahve 315's)
maybe its just all in my head, the 235's seem fine up the beach at 20-25PSI though a bit iffy in the softer stuff though.

did a little reading around, seems it could also be the traction control that is causing my issues not the skinny tires?

Leroy.

IMHO skinnier tyres are better off road everywhere. They get less sidewall staking than wider tyres and they are better in sand (I'm allowed my opinion :D). The only downside to them is that being taller and skinnier means they will flex more on the road. If that's an issue you shouldn't have bought a defender - it ain't a Ferrari!

The other benefits of skinnier tyres is reduced fuel consumption and less **** thrown up on the sides of your truck:). Also if you are doing outback travel, 235/85 are available everywhere in remote locations. 35s are not available outside of large centres. At all.

Save your bikkies and get a rear locker instead of bigger tyres and then laugh at your mates with 35s when you can go further than them. ;) it's more fun to have ATs or HTs when you do this too to rub it in a bit further. :wasntme:

[steveG]

strugling for traction a little though I put that down two the factory AT's

main think is, even with pressures dropped down (25PSI) i find that I am sinking in the mud where friends in larger heavier 4wd's are not who have wider tires AKA 265's and 285's (a few also ahve 315's)
maybe its just all in my head, the 235's seem fine up the beach at 20-25PSI though a bit iffy in the softer stuff though.

did a little reading around, seems it could also be the traction control that is causing my issues not the skinny tires?

Leroy.

Definitely drop some more pressure. Give them a crack at 12-15psi and see how they go for traction.
With 255/85 MT's its not often we struggle for traction at 15-20psi, but a few psi can make the difference between instant lockup on descent if you touch the brakes (20psi), and not even a hint of breaking traction (15psi) if its slippery.
Thats in a well loaded 110, so I'd expect you could run 10-12psi in a 90 without any issues.

Steve

[MLD]

main think is, even with pressures dropped down (25PSI) i find that I am sinking in the mud where friends in larger heavier 4wd's are not who have wider tires AKA 265's and 285's (a few also ahve 315's)
maybe its just all in my head,

Leroy.

Skinny types perform better in the mud. They cut through the mud to the firmer base below. If you are in mud that is endless, wide, skinner, tall, fat tyres makes no difference, you are just as likely to get stuck as your mate on 35" rubber.

There is a reason so many advocate 255/85 for the defender, it's a near perfect tyre for the defender. It fits on a 7" rim, max height for min compromise and max height for min cost of additional upgrades ( 285/75 need 8" rim and flares, 315/75 needs C&P in addition to that of the 285/75.)

MLD

[Leroy_Riding]

Seems the answer too my question is more or less 'no, 285's will not fit on a defender without modification'

Thats fine, I would still like a little more width, so Ill look into the 255/85's and untill then ill drop pressures even more than I have been.

In regards to who ever said jsut get lockers, I am not getting stuck, I am getting all the same places they are, it jsut seems they glide over the mud where I sink into and have to trudge through it due to the skinnier tires, most of them have lockers as it is. I have no want for lockers right away, had them in my alst 4wd, rarely used them, biggest waste of money I ever made tbh (other than not buying the land rover to begin with! :P )

Thanks
Leroy

[frantic]

In Qld last time I saw the laws I think it was legal to have 255's as long as the total vehicle lift was under 75mm?
The cheaper(less legal ) option is the 255's with UK ( UK/EU govt approved, just not here!)spacers of 30 mm so you can keep the original alloys and not have to buy new wheels. I've run a set for 2 years , no issues or problems and you can buy them from most big aftermarket places in the u.k. I think there is a set on here for sale but not sure of their origin. The other advantage is boost alloys with spacers and 255's still just fit under factory flares so you don't need new wider ones.
In my 110 I run 18-20 psi on bighorn 255's. Your in a 90 which is 4-500kg lighter so could look at lower pressures

[Tombie]

All your issues so far are pressure related.
Even when you get bigger Tyres it's all about pressures.

[manic]

I have 285/75 on a 90. Fits within flares, no need for extended. I have no issues with a 2" lift and steering stops adjusted to reduce turning circle.

This is on 7" zu rims 25 offset. I imported the rover with this set up and it passed engineer, Vic roads and roadworthy inspections.

I have had pressures down to 8psi without issue. Although 285 are not supposed to be on 7" rims they fit very well on the zu's.

Saying that though, the 285s came with the car when i bought it. I would not have picked them myself. The next set soon to go on will be 255. Hoping for slightly better turning and fuel consumption. It will also be interesting to see how they fare offroad. I've become very confident with the 285s - I might actually end up missing them.

Sent from my PadFone 2 using AULRO mobile app

[Drover]

I have MTZ's 285/75x16 on 8" neutral off set rims.
No rubbing, no change in turning circle.
They did stick outside of the factory flares and spray mud and crap all up the sides.
Now, with the FlatDog flares all sorted.

[camel_landy]

strugling for traction a little though I put that down two the factory AT's

main think is, even with pressures dropped down (25PSI) i find that I am sinking in the mud where friends in larger heavier 4wd's are not who have wider tires AKA 265's and 285's (a few also ahve 315's)
maybe its just all in my head, the 235's seem fine up the beach at 20-25PSI though a bit iffy in the softer stuff though.

did a little reading around, seems it could also be the traction control that is causing my issues not the skinny tires?

Workman... Tools??? :angel:

So far we've blamed the tyres & TC... Have you considered it could simply be your driving??

Personally, I'm a fan of the skinny tyres. I run Michelin XZL 7.50R16 and never had a problem in the soft stuff. Airing down & plenty of momentum.

M

[Leroy_Riding]

Workman... Tools??? :angel:

So far we've blamed the tyres & TC... Have you considered it could simply be your driving??

Personally, I'm a fan of the skinny tyres. I run Michelin XZL 7.50R16 and never had a problem in the soft stuff. Airing down & plenty of momentum.

M

Like I said, Im not getting stuck, and I am not spinning wheels all over the place either. it jsut seems that the wider tires drive over the mud rather than through it like the skinny ones do.

I mentioned the TC as I read that it causes issues in the soft sand elsewhere on this forum.
turns out people have mentioned I am not airing down enough, I thoguht 20-25PSI was low, others seemt o go lower, so I will try that. again though I am not getting stuck, nor am I struggling anywhere I go it was an observation that the wider tires in *MUD* seem to drive over what I have to drive through, my defender has been stuck twice, once becuase the track rod was so bent up my front tires were pointing oposite directions, the other because I got my back wheel stuck between two rocks and we nearly burnt a winch out pulling it free.

While I understand my driving can (and always can) improove I was simply asking a question about will 285's fit, I am not blamming tires or TC for anything.

Leroy

[Leroy_Riding]

All your issues so far are pressure related.
Even when you get bigger Tyres it's all about pressures.

It seems the lower pressure will be the go, 20-25 seemed low to me already but ill try lower in future.

I think ill still go for a wider tire once it comes time to change them anyway, the 255's look to be the best option if I do not want to do modifications (which I realy dont want too)

thanks
Leroy

[KarlB]

In the soft stuff (mud and sand) narrower tyres are better than wide tyres with the same ground footprint. A simplistic illustration of this is comparing pushing a bicycle with normal skinny wheels/tyres across the sand, to pushing one with wheels/tyres like a rolling pin. It is the length of the footprint that is important and this increases more with airing-down of skinny tyres. In sand, lugs are not as important as in mud where they are 'useful' in gripping the firmer stuff under the sludge.

In my 2010 D90, I normally run at 30-32 psi on the tarmac and formed dirt roads. In the soft stuff I drop to 18 psi as a first step. I rarely need to go lower.

Driving technique is VERY important. It is rare that any driver is as capable as their Defender! Can I suggest you drop your pressures, go up a gear (ie lower your revs), and increase your momentum, and see how that goes (using your standard tyres). Experiment a little. Your D90 should easily out perform the opposition. Be mindful that in some circumstances the wheelbase of the D90 is an asset, in others a longer wheelbase can be better. Also, the approach to a difficult section my need to be different.

Cheers
KarlB
:)

[Leroy_Riding]

I just typed a freaking massive reply Karl and stupid IE decided not to post it GRR!

anyway, short of my reply was, 'thanks' and I think my descision now will be between 235's and 255's and what brand (leaning towards the Coopers AT )

I still have 10,000kms to make my mind up though :)

Leroy

side questions, would 255's play with my gearing too much for towing a trailer apose to the 235's? or being that is the 90 it wont be as big a deal as if it was a 130?

thanks.

[KarlB]

I replaced my original General Grabbers with Goodyear Wrangler MT/R Kevlar tyres. They are expensive but very good, except that they are wearing out too quickly. I stuck with the standard size as I find it more than adequate. The size is readily available. And no potential impact on my warranty if any problems with the drive train. Next set? Certainly stick with 235/85R16s and probably Michelin 4x4 (XZL) or BFG Mud Terrain.

I will leave the gearing issue to someone else but would add that while we may poke fun and express dismay at the foibles of our Defenders, Land Rover engineers are responsible for the best 4x4xFar!

Cheers
KarlB
:)

[carlosbeldia]

Our 90 NAS with 285/75 R16 in OME +2" suspension. Only a small turn radio loss...

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/04/960.jpg

[n plus one]

I just typed a freaking massive reply Karl and stupid IE decided not to post it GRR!

anyway, short of my reply was, 'thanks' and I think my descision now will be between 235's and 255's and what brand (leaning towards the Coopers AT )

I still have 10,000kms to make my mind up though :)

Leroy

side questions, would 255's play with my gearing too much for towing a trailer apose to the 235's? or being that is the 90 it wont be as big a deal as if it was a 130?

thanks.

Gearing will be fine - I've towed 1.5t with my 110 at GVM on 255s, no issues. A 90 will be lighter and you can easily tweak it later for a few extra herbs if you feel the need...

[camel_landy]

KarlB hits the nail on the head... Momentum is your friend.

Wheelspin is caused by torque. The lower the gear, the greater the torque... In soft/slippery stuff, use a higher gear.

Skinny tyres 'bite' into the ground and let you dig down to the firm base, under the squidgy surface layer.

Personally, I'd avoid wide tyres, especially if your reasoning is 'they look good'!!!

M

[Leroy_Riding]

KarlB hits the nail on the head... Momentum is your friend.

Wheelspin is caused by torque. The lower the gear, the greater the torque... In soft/slippery stuff, use a higher gear.

Skinny tyres 'bite' into the ground and let you dig down to the firm base, under the squidgy surface layer.

Personally, I'd avoid wide tyres, especially if your reasoning is 'they look good'!!!

M

I am generaly not a big fan of momentum, becuase for momentum usualy speed is required first, so I opt for crawl in crawl out, if I cant crawl on through it I 90% of the time go around, the other 10% I give it a second go a slightly higher speed but never fast, the one time I drove something a little faster to get through (no way around) I bent up my front fender when my wheel dropped into a ditch hidden in the mud and my bumper pushed the fender up creasing it, and I was only idling 3rd gear, low range! no throttle input at all.

my reasoning has never been 'they look good' my quetion was around them appearing to drive OVER what I drive THROUGH, no issue though. I will likely go with 255's for a little extra clearence and width without sacrificing too much economy and whatnot.

Thanks
Leroy

[n plus one]

I am generaly not a big fan of momentum, becuase for momentum usualy speed is required first, so I opt for crawl in crawl out, if I cant crawl on through it I 90% of the time go around, the other 10% I give it a second go a slightly higher speed but never fast, the one time I drove something a little faster to get through (no way around) I bent up my front fender when my wheel dropped into a ditch hidden in the mud and my bumper pushed the fender up creasing it, and I was only idling 3rd gear, low range! no throttle input at all.

my reasoning has never been 'they look good' my quetion was around them appearing to drive OVER what I drive THROUGH, no issue though. I will likely go with 255's for a little extra clearence and width without sacrificing too much economy and whatnot.

Thanks
Leroy

Appreciate if you could give some follow up on what 255s you get and how you rate them - I've got the ****s with my KM2s...

[Leroy_Riding]

Will do, Im looking at the Coopers AT's but not sure if they come in the 255 or not, but have told they do.

Leroy

[Tombie]

Will do, Im looking at the Coopers AT's but not sure if they come in the 255 or not, but have told they do.

Leroy

Would recommend stretching to BFG MT KM2s... For the 255...

Leave the "bloopers" alone :wasntme:

[vnx205]

I am generally not a big fan of momentum.

I like the phrase I first saw about six or seven years ago on this forum, posted by (I think) Blknight .

IIRC, he said he drives "as slow as possible but as fast as necessary".

This is what happened at Yalwal a few years ago when on my fifth or sixth attempt at getting up a step, I tried a bit more momentum.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/04/926.jpg

EDIT:
On reflection, perhaps he actually said, "as slowly as possible but as fast as necessary". :)

[strangy]

Appreciate if you could give some follow up on what 255s you get and how you rate them - I've got the ****s with my KM2s...

Would you mind expanding on this?

About to get 255s for mine and choices, as you would already know, are few with only 3 makes without looking at individual imports.

[n plus one]

Would you mind expanding on this?

About to get 255s for mine and choices, as you would already know, are few with only 3 makes without looking at individual imports.

Tyres are find (offroad grip, wet roads, durability, etc) but can't get them to balance out for love or money - plenty of discussion re KM2 balancing issues on the US forums.

[camel_landy]

I am generaly not a big fan of momentum...

The official line is: "As slow as possible, as fast as necessary".

To explain further: Momentum is proportonal to available traction. If you've got loads of grip, you don't need momentum but if you have no grip, you're going to need momentum.

The example I use is: Think of a steep bitumen drive. In summer time, you have bucket loads of grip and you can crawl up at the slowest of speeds. However, cover that drive in ice and you're going to need a load of momentum to get up it.

Knowing how much momentum to use comes with practice. ;)

M

[Sitec]

Hello. I used to run 285 70 R16's on my 130, and they looked great... but, I used Compomotive Alloys which were an 8" rim from memory.. I also gave the rear a 40mm lift and the front a 75mm lift to make it 'look right'.. IMO, without the lift, they look silly.. There are those that'll tell u its illegal, and that the rims I used are not rated for a 130, but Im of the opinion that if it looks right and is not over the top then you'll be left alone. :)

[chuck]

The wide tyre v skinny tyre can be debated over & over.

It should be noted that any vehicle that is designed to travel over sand has wide tyres - it is as simple as that.

The same with snow.

Mud is different it depends if there is a hard base.
Hard base = skinny tyres.
Soft base wide tyres.

D4's with 285 60 18 tyres excel on sand.

[beefy]

chuck

you need to come to wa my defender with 235's is better in the sand because they have a longer foot print and I loose less power. 235 all the way

[n plus one]

It should be noted that any vehicle that is designed to travel over sand has wide tyres.

At the end of the day there's no arguing with this, however there's a limit to how wide you can practically fit to a Deefer and IME you're unlikely to go wide enough to get the flotation benefits of wide tyre (think Artic trucks). I remember a magazine article where they tried to get an Artic Hilux bogged on Stockton - couldn't do it, even when stopping and restarting kn the steepest dune faces they could find!

Its also worth noting that, abstracting from the strength of the tyre carcass, every tyre has the same foot print area for a given psi and load - that's just physics - the only question is the shape of the foot print, wide and short or narrow and long. For me a high profile 'skinny' (255/85) lets me go to a nice low pressure (say 10psi in the soft stuff, but lower still if necessary) and gives a big (but long and narrow) foot print that works well in the sand. Wouldn't be better than a set of smooth 42s at 5psi though!

[chuck]

Beefy

Love to come to WA & play in the sand with you.

I am not disagreeing with you as tyres on a 4x4 are always a compromise.

I had a D2 with 265 75 16 & I thought they were the ideal tyre for that car.

However that was remapped & an auto.

One of the reason I liked the wider tyre is that it helps keep you off the rock & mud walls we tend to have in Victoria.

Might only be 15 mm more width but that can make the difference between damage or no damage.

The 235 85's must be good as there is a lot of support for them on a Defender - how many stock 4wd's can you buy standard with 32" mud terrains;)

[frantic]

Would you mind expanding on this?

About to get 255s for mine and choices, as you would already know, are few with only 3 makes without looking at individual imports.

Ive had 255/85 bighorn for about 50k's now and didn't rotate them till about 10k's ago, they are great in the wet and dry and very good off road, the only problem that made me rotate them was the front 2 where more worn and One was giving a wobble at 80-90kph, this went away after rotating but has started to come back a bit at 95kph. I usually drop them to 15-18 to go off-road but they don't seem to bulge as much in the sidewalls. The only hopes I've had where from some scum putting a nail under my rear tyre and even then it held the bead til the Detroit told me. You sharp slow turn with one almost flat rear and it trys to lock up.
I also have spacers to move the boost alloys out as I have a Gwyn Lewis kit.