More 5L40E problems

[33chinacars]

As per title.

Reversed out of shed. No problems. Selected drive, went to move off. All I got was a heap of revs. Did I put it in drive.;) Yes. Try again. Same thing, rev rev rev, go nowhere. 3rd time lucky. Drives as normal.

Went to town and back . Some 70 kms. All seams normal . I think. Although one shift did jerk a bit ??.

Haven't had time to investigate further. Is my trans on the way out.:(:( Any ideas.

Gary

[disco gazza]

Hi Gary,

It could be.. How many klm's on it.

I'm getting mine done at the moment and Rhys said he was surprised how it went with the converter almost completely gone.I didnt have any fault codes either which surprised me,but it was only a matter of time.

Good luck

cheers

[harlie]

Gary it is possibble for an electrical gremlin to prevent power reaching the shift solonoid, but given the record of early boxes I would have it looked at by someone who knows

[33chinacars]

Thanks guy's

Done 140,000 km & has not been serviced to my knowledge. Its also a MY05 by which time I believe some of the TC problems had been fixed ( to some extent anyway).

Was thinking along the lines of electrical gremlins ( I hope) or low on trans fluid. But not signs of leaks. As yet I haven't had time to play.

Gary

[harlie]

give the poor thing a service!!:wasntme:

$65 for a filter + $100 for fluid, it is an easy job.

[jonnyjon05]

Mine has a similar issue, when it’s cold it is reluctant to engage for a few seconds. I found if I slide it to drive and let it sit there until it start to move forward on its own power or feel the engine note change as load is added before using the accelerator the gears engage more quickly. If I am too quick with the accelerator it won’t go anywhere. Once it is warm it has no issues.

In all autos with lock up TC's I have driven, over about 1200 revs Drive will not engage..

Maybe your just to quick Gary :p

[disco gazza]

Just had a flashback..:p
In the last few days I was driving the FF,after reversing out of carport,it would take about 30-40 seconds to engage drive,but after that it was fine.Even when I got to the gate( 3 seconds),opened gate,put into drive,it would immediately engage,it was only the first time it was engaged that it was slow.
Putting it into reverse to get out of carport it would engage immediately.
Figure that one out guys.:p:D

cheers

[33chinacars]

give the poor thing a service!!:wasntme:

$65 for a filter + $100 for fluid, it is an easy job.

Yes Harlie. Its on my to do list . Just didn't want to go lying on my back.

Yes Jon haha maybe a bit quick :p not me

[33chinacars]

Boing Trans Fail Safe Prog

Have yet to change oil as it was on my to do list this week . Maybe a much bigger job now . Not that I can afford it.

Going for a long drive on Saturday , stopped locally. Boing Trans Fail safe Prog. Didn't wont to take off. Lots of revs. Tried to limp home a a much reduced speed. Lots of restarting etc. Didn't make, had to be towed the last little bit. Now no drive in any gear/ mode.

From IIDTool . Trans ECU.

Fault : 34 Gear Monitor 2 Fault : General Fault

Fault : 35 Gear Monitor 3 Fault : General Fault

Fault : 36 Gear Monitor 4 Fault : General Fault

Fault : 37 Gear Monitor 5 Fault : General Fault

Is this electronic . Any other ideas before I start to demolish things

Thanks Gary

[slug_burner]

See if this link helps (koti.mbnet.fi/pro-ht/Kuvat/automaattilaatikko/5L40E.pdf‎) There are a few others if you search on the transmission ID plus fault code numbers.

In the above link the BMW fault code 34 signals that there is something going on with the fluid temperature or the temp sensor. There was no BMW code 35 etc listed in the first table I found.

[peter g]

Hi Gary,
My trans failure last year was similar except no warning. Just 2000 k's after trans service, (old oil was clean, I saw it myself). Warm day, 30deg, after 3hrs on road stopped for a driver change, started to accelerate, wouldn't change into 5th. I stopped, went to drive off, boing, trans fail safe prog, wouldnt move ! Lots of smell of very hot oil. Shipped straight to A&B in Dandenong where they fitted another rebuilt unit. So I still dont know what happened to mine.
A&B recommended fitting a new heat exchanger and also flushed cooling system (only done 12 months earlier). We cut up old heat exch which didn't appear to be blocked.
I would be interested to know what happened to yours in due course.
Note these cars do not have a trans cooler, coolant circulates through the heat exch to warm up oil at start and cool ? when running. I really wonder if (in addition to the known issues with the 5L40E) the heat exchanger is right for OZ conditions.
I would happily fit a trans cooler if it was a straight forward exercise, problem is where to fit it to get direct air flow - there is not much space.
Peter

[Homestar]

Sorry to hear Gary. :(

Mine gave me no warning - belting along at 110 with a caravan on, then boing... No drive, trans fail safe...

[disco gazza]

I think I was very lucky that it didnt go bang on the drive back from Adelaide.
Only put about 7-800k's on her when I got back home from the trip back.
Going to work,it was fine(am in an 80kph zone),but when I was coming home from work(60kph for 10k),I really noticed that the transmission was playing up.
Its good now,but now have a dead battery and am waiting for a new one to be delivered.;)
Getting a Varda L1 $369.00

cheers

[33chinacars]

This is going to be a long draw out process as I don't have the funds for the repairs . That is unless I can sell my Holden Overlander.

I take it from everyone comments that it is likely to internal ( Torque Converter / Valve body etc ) & not electronic as I first thought.

I'm going to miss my beloved RR whilst its in dry dock :BigCry::BigCry::BigCry::BigCry:[bawl][bawl][bawl][bawl]

Gav did you take yours out yourself or anybody else for that matter.

Gary

[Laurie]

Garry
Have you dropped the Trans-fluid yet ? If not ! I don't know the code, but the pressure regulator solenoid would give similar symptons if it's faulty. Your auto is the first 05 variant that has had trouble that I'm aware of; so I would check every option before considering a re-build.
Hope it is this simple :)

Laurie

[33chinacars]

Thanks Laurie

But not checked fluid as yet .Probably on the weekend. Was hoping for some thing simple . Fingers crossed . Will keep you all informed.

Gary

[Homestar]

I didn't pull mine out myself at the time but I would if it happened again - it is fairly straightforward.

[jsp]

well mines started playing up now, less than 20k after having the torque converter done.

Looking at tearing into it myself as it may just be a stuck valve in the valve body.

Seems there's a few oils now, Valvoline dexron 6, Penrite dexron 6, and I have been told Nulon Full synthetic, but I don't think its upto scratch.

Whats the easiest to get?

[disco gazza]

Hi JSP,
Rhys uses Valvoline Dexron 6 ,so thats what I will be using.

cheers

[33chinacars]

O'k. Finally got to drain some oil from trans. 5 - 6 litres. Black, very black. Cant see any particles in the oil. Apart from being black can't see anything else. Next to pull sump. But is too cold in my shed to continue tonight. Yes I'm a woose.

Gary

[disco gazza]

I cant remember who it was,but they left the sump off for 2 days and they got just about all the fluid out of their box.( think it was 9.5 ltrs or there abouts.)

All I need to do mine when its due is an IID tool, so I can get the box up to temp to check I've put the required amount in.

cheers

[Steinzy]

Hi Gary

I saw this on EBay and thought it could come in handy for you.

http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&alt=web&id=181401172401

Cheap even with courier cost!

[33chinacars]

Thanks Steinzy

Already have oil & filter kit.

Gary

[disco gazza]

Hmmmmmmmmmm interesting.

If Rhys had put this into the box,I would buy it,but seeing as he used Valvoline (you know what I mean :lol2:) Think I'll stick with that.

Thanks all the same..

cheers

[disco gazza]

Hi Gary,
Think that post about the Texaco fluid was for you not me. :D
It is a cheap buy for that price tho. :cool:

cheers

[harlie]

Garry
Have you dropped the Trans-fluid yet ? If not ! I don't know the code, but the pressure regulator solenoid would give similar symptons if it's faulty. Your auto is the first 05 variant that has had trouble that I'm aware of; so I would check every option before considering a re-build.
Hope it is this simple :)

Laurie

Agree with Laurie

When the pan comes off there will still be a bit of fluid in it. Carefully check for debris. Also have a smell of the fluid - does it have a burnt smell.

If there are no particles in the fluid (there will be fine material stuck to the magnet, this is normal but there shouldn't be much - mine was like a smudgy paste over the magnet), then the regulator is a fair bet. Get those codes deciphered - send them to GAP.

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/2065831-post5.html

[harlie]

Actually scratch that – maybe. The above post was typed this morning before below happened.

According to the VIN listing on FFRR my car is after the change. It has been serviced and had clean fluid each time – My transmission hell started today...

As usually the car was silky smooth today. Drove through the city then down western freeway, at about 85km/h (top gear TC locked) I planted the foot to merge into the right lane and revs went up disproportionately to speed.mmm, crap not done that before.

Continued on to my appointment, car is running perfectly no sign of issues, changing beautifully, TC engagement/disengagement like silk. On the way back out I replicated what I was now sure is TC lockup slippage a couple times and I decided to drop into the transmission specialist which I’m not far from. I’m not often over that side of town, got a bit of time see what he says, they do all of the BMW dealership work. He has a bit on, go find some lunch come back in hour or so, we can look at it with you then? No worries, I go feed myself at the industrial estate food outlet – piece of humble pie – would you like a drink with that? Yeah but something stronger than you sell:(.

I go back. He plugs in – no faults. He goes for a drive and returns immediately “yep, it’s slipping”. He then proceed to tell me what goes wrong with them (exactly what we have discussed here), it will be pressure related. Drain some fluid - bit off colour but not black, no material, he rates it as clean – “you’ve caught it early, drive it further and it will self destruct” – won’t know the full extent until Monday pm once it is stripped.

I drive off in a loaner thinking this day has gone to pot, think I need to go pick up my gear and go kiting – so I did...

[justinc]

Stock TC lock up clutch in these is way too small surface area for adequate lifespan, if the line pressure drops off even a little then you will lose 'clamping force', same as a manual trans and a clutch pressure plate issue. The big issue with auto transmissions is the self destruction scenario where low pressure causes slippage which causes blocked filter due to clutch material in the oil, which causes more slippage due to low pressures etc etc etc . The big picture here is that the 5l40E is just hopelessly outgunned by that glorious 3 litre 6....:(


JC

[33chinacars]

Have already sent codes to GAP . But couldn't really help. Just said it was of a mechanical nature :(:(

Have let it sit for a few days with sump on before trying to drain some more oil out. Did smell a bit burnt. :mad::mad:

Gary

[Dougal]

Actually scratch that – maybe. The above post was typed this morning before below happened.

According to the VIN listing on FFRR my car is after the change. It has been serviced and had clean fluid each time – My transmission hell started today...

As usually the car was silky smooth today. Drove through the city then down western freeway, at about 85km/h (top gear TC locked) I planted the foot to merge into the right lane and revs went up disproportionately to speed.mmm, crap not done that before.

Continued on to my appointment, car is running perfectly no sign of issues, changing beautifully, TC engagement/disengagement like silk. On the way back out I replicated what I was now sure is TC lockup slippage a couple times and I decided to drop into the transmission specialist which I’m not far from. I’m not often over that side of town, got a bit of time see what he says, they do all of the BMW dealership work. He has a bit on, go find some lunch come back in hour or so, we can look at it with you then? No worries, I go feed myself at the industrial estate food outlet – piece of humble pie – would you like a drink with that? Yeah but something stronger than you sell:(.

I go back. He plugs in – no faults. He goes for a drive and returns immediately “yep, it’s slipping”. He then proceed to tell me what goes wrong with them (exactly what we have discussed here), it will be pressure related. Drain some fluid - bit off colour but not black, no material, he rates it as clean – “you’ve caught it early, drive it further and it will self destruct” – won’t know the full extent until Monday pm once it is stripped.

I drive off in a loaner thinking this day has gone to pot, think I need to go pick up my gear and go kiting – so I did...

Sorry to hear that. How many km?

[harlie]

Sorry to hear that. How many km?
183

Interesting to see on Monday - I will visit. Since the oil was still clean his initial thoughts are that pressure supply has died (normal) but wear should be minimal - or the fluid would be black and contain muck. After driving it, he was not convinced that it is the TC clutch that is slipping, apparently it is often slipping elsewhere if the fluid is relatively clean. Either way, it's pump, regulator, valve block, all clutches and TC (at least) so it is just an exercise of interest - the bank account is still going to cop it...

The box was out on Friday arv ready to be stripped Monday.

[Laurie]

Harlie
If they are doing a full strip; any chance of some photo's ? :D To my knowledge it would be the first time we could compare the innards with the photo's RRPhil posted of the early 5L40E teardown.

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/l322-range-rover/150004-td6-auto-tech-pictures.html

Also Don could cast his eyes over the photos and see if they did indeed use parts from the 5L50E version. Which would prove they "did know the box was under rated for this application"
I would be particlarly interested in see the T/C ;) as it was supposedly "improved" and a new part number added.

Laurie

[donrover0]

Would be difficult to spot differences!
Main case casting same; just different drillings/drains here and there in same cast-in spigots.
Oil pump same; obviously bell housing different.
Sprags same.
Externals of all clutches same except subtle differences in lengths of hollow shafts/spline lengths.
Clutches in 5L50E-- most have extra disc/plate (that stated extra power handling???)
Planetary- 5L50E has slightly "longer" gears.
That's it!
Well that's it from the XLR Caddy box anyway; I doubt GM would have made other changes between 5L50E's for different cars/makes.
Don

[harlie]

So… I will have my car back on Friday.

Post mortem results: Failed pressure regulator valve.

The valve body pressure test (with new valves) was in the normal range but only just – so valve body wear was not THE issue, however with my “do it all” attitude towards this, it is receiving the full sonnax treatment (sent away). The decision to sleave opposed to fitting a new body was made after an interesting chat with the repairer that has the car. His story is also talked about by a UK repairer in one of the discussions I found. What these guys have found is that the various versions of the 5L40 have minutely different bodies. When fitting exchange units (several years ago now) they found issues with some transmissions when fitted with a rebuilt body that originated from different model. They have not had any problems rebuilding the valve body and fitting it back in the same box – provided it was not completely stuffed, which he admitted they rarely can be. Down side is time.

TC lockup clutch still has a bit of meat but was slipping due to pressure. The initial oil sample was relatively clean but when the pan was removed it had a lot of clutch lining material in the bottom, so the clutch was in the process of shredding itself.

No metal filings found.

Shift clutch packs still in good nick (getting replaced anyway).

The TC specialist is of the opinion that my TC has a significantly thicker clutch plate than the 2002 he did last week. Interesting? Was it the very early ones that were warping?

I will post up some pics on the weekend. With the full list.

Can’t wait to get the old girl back – I asked for a lower stall speed Torque Converter which has arrived - should be nice.

If I had continued to drive it things would have got worse quickly. I suggest that most failures start out like this, the very subtle signs are not noticed, eventually the filter blocks and fluid supply is lost resulting in no gear selection.

I could have got the car back and going with a replacement regulator valve and Torque Converter. But given the risk of these, It is recieving the full monty, the list is long - I'm keeping the car make it last.

[Laurie]

Harlie
It was good to see it was the pressure regulator in the first instance.:) you have caught the low pressure gremlin early. I totally agree with your decision on the rebuild though, not only on future costs basis but most of all peace of mind. I've always disliked the T/C setup in these boxes and it's good to hear the later models LR have attempted to address this shortfall. I will be very interested to see if the T/C lockup points have been reduced, with your new low stall T/C or better could be had by installing the Ecotuning unit also.
I think a heavy duty T/C replacement in the early KLM'S of these boxes is a worthwhile long term investment..

How does your auto rebuilder rate the strength of your box after these mods, would it be ok for a "chipped" Td6 or not ? just looking at it long term for future enhancements.

Laurie

[harlie]

....

How does your auto rebuilder rate the strength of your box after these mods, would it be ok for a "chipped" Td6 or not ? just looking at it long term for future enhancements.

Laurie

I asked him about the retune during the initial diognosis last week - I've been running ~500nm for quite a while. His opinion - not a problem, he has been building versions of the box for blokes with "stupid horse power" - "fix the pressure problems and they are a top box".

After seeing the clutch that came out of my TC, I'm not worried at all (must admit I was last friday). If it wasn't for the pressure valve it would have had a lot of life left after 183k.

Point that was backed up during conversations with a well-regarded trans rebuilder in Sydney on Monday (we all know him). He is so convinced that pressure is the main issue he is recommending the pressure valve be replaced as a scheduled maintenance item – every 3 years. It is right there when the filter is removed & doesn't cost much, swap it over during a fluid change… That conversation was before we knew what went wrong with mine, and it would have saved it - The fluid was clean when I changed it at xmas.

[Steinzy]

Hi Harlie,

I just had my transmission serviced as I had started to get a bit of a shudder intermittently when under load. They pulled the pan of to inspect and found no sediment but commented that fluid was dirty. Based on what you have said do you reckon it would be worth taking it back and getting them to replace the pressure valve....what's approx cost for the valve?

[Laurie]

Steinzy
The Borg-Warner unit is your best option, I don't know what local costs are though ! The link below is to a PDF ;)

https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:jGBkkyG0xwUJ:www.autolinkautomatics.com/gallery/images/1109/file/5L40E%2520Thrust%2520Washers%2520-%2520Borg%2520Warner%2520Solenoids.pdf+pressure+re gulator+solenoid+5L40E&hl=en&gl=au&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESgM3fywqhUAAwJEOQkX5BjTOTIFbG9cVQP6LA_s dUd65_J_nbXxHBrQHkLyEMNy6Iccn3M5gamp30M7960MHWklW_ WhZ2GF1lkGJOeeZfD6-XxzuixnFwUj0UlQFyeq9XOW5si4&sig=AHIEtbRdOiFPvAtO0olqQcDLvo3cC7rw1A

Laurie

[harlie]

Hi Harlie,

I just had my transmission serviced as I had started to get a bit of a shudder intermittently when under load. They pulled the pan of to inspect and found no sediment but commented that fluid was dirty. Based on what you have said do you reckon it would be worth taking it back and getting them to replace the pressure valve....what's approx cost for the valve?

When was it shuddering? My first symptom was a vibration/harshness - TC was locked, top gear under load, lift off and it smoothed out.

Has the fluid change fixed the symptom? If it has then yes - ask Qs about the AFL valve or the kit which includes the sleeve, and the regulator kit. Clean fluid improves line pressure, but it also allows the valves and pistons to operate at their designed speed and force.

You need someone with the tooling to do the AFL valve sleeve, once things get bad the valve body needs to be machined and sleeved. There is a real chance you could replace the valve and achieve nothing because the valve is not sealing on the body or the pump is buggered, or the regulator is buggered, or the case is worn, or, or, or.

If you have slippage ask Qs NOW - don't drive it.

I had not felt any vibrations or other issues until a couple days ago. Previous fluid changes made no difference to the operation of my trans. If a fluid change improves things the fluid must be horrible.

I don't have the price list yet, but these bits are not that expensive – I just have a long list. He read the list out to me this morning and most of the work is pressure rectification or further prevention. I will post up the parts prices once I get it home. I think the fluid would nearly cost more than the valve.

I think it is interesting to note, the repairer here in BNE and our well known member who rebuilds these boxes in SYD (whom I spoken to at length several times) both said exactly the same thing. Failures are 100% pressure related, you can fit the biggest TC in the world and it will chew out because the pressure will drop. The obvious symptom is the TC clutch (so we all blame the TC), it is usually spread throughout the box when it is opened, but the problem was line pressure, even in the early versions that warped the clutch plate – it didn’t warp until it after it was slipping, which was after the pressure dropped. And we are not talking a small drop either. They both were not that interested in the HD converter from Melbourne – “we can fit that if you want, but it isn’t the issue” – sort out (and maintain) the fundamental design issues that affect pressure and they last. Given this bloke was doing all the warranty work for BMW (still is) in SEQ when the 5l40 was becoming famous and they are all still going strong, I tend to think he may know what’s what.

I’ve lost interest in the talk about torque converters, especially after my conversation with the bloke in Melbourne – his knowledge of 5l40s was nill and his knowledge of TD6 Range Rovers was nill. Apparently the factory TC stalls out at 2500rpm… So none of these cars revved out above 2500 from new.

Anyways my car is on the road now all tested, but can’t get out until tomorrow:angry:

[harlie]

Yep, I have my car :D

The summarised list starting with pressure specific rectification:
• Machine bell housing surfaces & Machine front pump assembly (specialist #1 outsource)
• Machine valve body & fit sleave kit, valves (specialist #2 outsource) – aka valve body sonnax treatment
• Machine Front pump & fit regulator valve kit (specialist #2 outsource) – aka pressure pump sonnax treatment
• New pressure control solenoid

And continue with
• Overall kit (seals/gaskets ect)
• Bush kit
• Full set of clutch frictions (one was worn the rest looked perfect)
• Clutch piston kit (the old pistons had hard rings/seals – apparently they are not repairable?)
• Filter (his price for a filter kit makes me cry)
• Flush the lines & cooler
• Fluid
• Torque converter overhaul, modification and clutch replacement (specialist #3 outsource)

I felt a couple of gear changes early on but it has smoothed out entirely over the afternoon, the ECU will be learning how to make shifts smooth in the new environment, according to the manual it can take a few days.

Couple points of interest.
I used my torque converter; it is definitely different to the early models. It now has a quality clutch in there (original had heaps of life left after 183k) and the stall speed has been adjusted down – who knew they could do that?? Apparently I'm the first 5L40 to ask for it. Answer - no worries. He says he wants feed back next week...

*** I can’t recommend the stall speed modification enough – it is beautiful and only cost $80. It is a subtle change that brings the revs down across the throttle range, and encourages earlier up shifts (I assume due to in and out shaft speeds being closer). I have spent the afternoon keeping up with city traffic and it didn’t go over 2500rpm, only went close a few times in the first 2 gears on a hill where it went to 24-25. Once moving (over 25-30kph) it likes to run between 1900 and 2200 no mater what hill you give it.

update: give it the beans on the freeway on ramp - pulls like a train @2800-2900

I don’t know the exact stall speed (won’t be as low as Don’s 2600 - at a guess about 3000), don’t know the factory either – I asked for 10-15% reduction, apparently they work off %reduction for modifications.

as a side note - mr blaster's (melbourne) super special heavy duty torque converter is actually your old converter (or an exchange) with a heavier clutch fitted. Which is pretty much what I have... The $absurd goes up if your old converter is buggered. I am sure this is why the 2 repairers were not really interested in it - they already know this, my guy was questioning his features list.... I called, he got very squirmy when I started pushing for details, by this time I had seen the inside of mine

It now has a different fluid – it is not GM licensed DXvi. When i asked the logic for this, he said that the full synthetic gives better pressure performance and life and we are no longer restricted to DXvi (for wear issues) because it isn’t really a GM box anymore. Fluid is Penrite AFT FS – which is good for future services as its double the price:( - He did stress, you must use the licensed stuff prior to sleaving all the bits that wear.

As mentioned earlier according to various sources my 2004 should have an upgraded transmission? Not sure, other than the TC.

Is it a 5L50E in disguise? No, definitely not!

[Steinzy]

I am scared to ask...but what was the damage to the hip pocket?

[jsp]

Well I can vouch for a bit better driving experience after having my TC lowered by 300 RPM, its not day and night but its noticeable.

Second rebuild done - sonnax kit, ZF kit, clutch packs, pump, the works, will see how long this one lasts.

[harlie]

Good to hear.

Mine is more than 300, I'm guessing something like 500. We have friends at Mt Nebo that we visit often, there is 17km of winding mountain road that has a 70 speed limit. At 55-70 in the hills is where the mod is really noticeable, with the 500nm retune and the TC mod it is just really nice - a different car. Windows down, roof open, o'yeah listen to that turbo whistle.

I figure it is a nice truck, we like it and it is our 2nd car so it doesn’t see many km during the week. We plan to hang on to it for a long time - happy to spend - ok, not happy but can justify the coin to make it right. Its a lot cheaper than changing cars...

Wife's car needs a mechatronics unit @59km - it is the valve body with ECU and sensors in one unit (ZF boxes are like this). No one in Aus is equipped to repair them so dealer only. - O'yeah, the independent trans shops can’t fit them because the ECU needs to be loaded with software, so it won’t work if they fit them – dealer only.

Makes GM5L40 repairs seem cheap. All the anti GM folk, wait till you need a ZF machatronics unit!!

I've got one coming from Denmark for 1/3 cost and will fit it myself, because under EU laws the dealer network is not allowed to monopolise the parts manufacturers, they can supply the unit preloaded with software because they have access to factory files.

Dealer wants $3900 to fit a new valve body, essentially because a valve has failed. It is still going to cost me 1200, but I get a stage 1 transmission tune preinstalled. What a crapper, both cars having trans issue.

[Declan]

Lads not sure but think my auto might need to be overhauled .if I keep it at 80 km an hours it feels like it going over a cattle grid but all other speeds no problem & I have had no issues with my auto only this any Ideas + if I get the auto rebuilt by Rhys it should not cost as much as if I wait for it to fail, any feedback would be appreciated. :twisted::twisted::twisted:

[harlie]

hey Declan

Sounds like clutch vibration?

My first symptom (which I didn’t Identify at the time) was a harshness/ vibration @ 80km/h, TC locked, on a hill as I put the foot down - Lift off and it went away. Put in sport mode (TC lockup drops out) and it was fine.

Test for you.
While at 90-95 with TC locked, push the throttle down. You don’t want it to drop a gear, but give it as much as you can without kick down. If the clutch is slipping you will notice it at this point. If all is good the car should just go.

If the clutch is slipping it is eating itself away. The box has dropped pressure. It is not a TC clutch failure, the clutch is the symptom, and drop in clamping pressure is the problem - caused by wear in the pump housing, or the valve body, or the regulator valve, or or or. Rhys knows what needs doing.

If it is slipping, get it done NOW. Once all the clutch lining is gone it starts to eat metal plates and pump metal through the box – yeah more $. This is why everyone points at the TC clutch, because when the box is opened there’s metal everywhere, and the only thing that looks wrong is the eaten clutch in the TC. The filter will become blocked and you will loose drive as the valve block looses supply.

[Homestar]

Yep, do what Harlie said - get it sorted now. Rhys has brand new valve bodies that are made of stronger stuff now than they used to be. This will fix the line pressure issues you're experiencing with the suffering clutch in your TC. Hopefully it's not too far gone, but Rhys will tell it to you straight - he won't tell you something needs doing if it doesn't.

If it fail completely you'll be up for much bigger dollars - the pump housing will need machining if it gets metal in it, and that is expensive.

[harlie]

there is a bit more to it than just the valve body.... get the pump done, regulator valve as a start.

[Homestar]

Indeed, I didn't mean that as a complete fix, just that there is a good fix for the line pressure issues, and to get it looked at sooner rather than later.

[Declan]

Thanks all for the feedback can anyone give me Rys address so I will look at bringing the car up to get the auto done how long do you have too leave it with him to fix gearbox might make it a trip.

[disco gazza]

Pm sent. :D

Had mine done recently by Rhys.

cheers

[jsp]

Hey Declan,

Rhys is fantastic, he was great to talk to and forthcoming with information, great customer service and known by some of the locals for great work.

I am not far from you if you want info on the local's.

I found a local based guy who sent my TC to Melbourne and had my pump machined in Sydney.

[Declan]

Yep, I have my car :D

The summarised list starting with pressure specific rectification:
• Machine bell housing surfaces & Machine front pump assembly (specialist #1 outsource)
• Machine valve body & fit sleave kit, valves (specialist #2 outsource) – aka valve body sonnax treatment
• Machine Front pump & fit regulator valve kit (specialist #2 outsource) – aka pressure pump sonnax treatment
• New pressure control solenoid

And continue with
• Overall kit (seals/gaskets ect)
• Bush kit
• Full set of clutch frictions (one was worn the rest looked perfect)
• Clutch piston kit (the old pistons had hard rings/seals – apparently they are not repairable?)
• Filter (his price for a filter kit makes me cry)
• Flush the lines & cooler
• Fluid
• Torque converter overhaul, modification and clutch replacement (specialist #3 outsource)

I felt a couple of gear changes early on but it has smoothed out entirely over the afternoon, the ECU will be learning how to make shifts smooth in the new environment, according to the manual it can take a few days.

Couple points of interest.
I used my torque converter; it is definitely different to the early models. It now has a quality clutch in there (original had heaps of life left after 183k) and the stall speed has been adjusted down – who knew they could do that?? Apparently I'm the first 5L40 to ask for it. Answer - no worries. He says he wants feed back next week...

*** I can’t recommend the stall speed modification enough – it is beautiful and only cost $80. It is a subtle change that brings the revs down across the throttle range, and encourages earlier up shifts (I assume due to in and out shaft speeds being closer). I have spent the afternoon keeping up with city traffic and it didn’t go over 2500rpm, only went close a few times in the first 2 gears on a hill where it went to 24-25. Once moving (over 25-30kph) it likes to run between 1900 and 2200 no mater what hill you give it.

update: give it the beans on the freeway on ramp - pulls like a train @2800-2900

I don’t know the exact stall speed (won’t be as low as Don’s 2600 - at a guess about 3000), don’t know the factory either – I asked for 10-15% reduction, apparently they work off %reduction for modifications.

as a side note - mr blaster's (melbourne) super special heavy duty torque converter is actually your old converter (or an exchange) with a heavier clutch fitted. Which is pretty much what I have... The $absurd goes up if your old converter is buggered. I am sure this is why the 2 repairers were not really interested in it - they already know this, my guy was questioning his features list.... I called, he got very squirmy when I started pushing for details, by this time I had seen the inside of mine

It now has a different fluid – it is not GM licensed DXvi. When i asked the logic for this, he said that the full synthetic gives better pressure performance and life and we are no longer restricted to DXvi (for wear issues) because it isn’t really a GM box anymore. Fluid is Penrite AFT FS – which is good for future services as its double the price:( - He did stress, you must use the licensed stuff prior to sleaving all the bits that wear.

As mentioned earlier according to various sources my 2004 should have an upgraded transmission? Not sure, other than the TC.

Is it a 5L50E in disguise? No, definitely not!

Harlie
Did you get your auto fixed up at Rhys and he outsourced the bits he could not do ?.

[harlie]

No mate, mine was done in Brisbane, by the guy that does the "factory" boxes that the QLD BMW dealers sell...

He outsources the TC, machining and valve block work - all require specialist tooling. As far as timing goes, the TC and valve block dictated how long it took. I left the car with him on Friday 3pm. The TC and valve block were on the Monday morning courier pickup and were back to him Wednesday arv and Thursday morning. Car was ready Thursday arv.

I've spoken to Rhys a couple times - you'll be right with him. Only thing he differed on opinion was the valve block. Rhys likes the new option.

ask for a 15% stall speed reduction :BigThumb:

[Declan]

No worries Harlie Im going to be in Brisbane for a while so if the old girl needs to be done I will get the guy who did yours, if you can let me know the address & name of the company I will contact them and have a chat.:twisted::twisted:

[harlie]

pm sent.

You in town?

[Declan]

pm sent.

You in town?

Harlie Im working in remote QLD looking at moving to Brisbane , but at moment the old girl is still in Adelaide I will get the auto done in Adelaide as I dont think it will make the drive to QLD as I have done the test you said to do and over the last couple of days the shudder has got more load so went to my Landrover mechanic here and he knows a very good auto transmission guy who will do the fix up, hope to catch up with you when I move to QLD maybe get some 4wd in.

[harlie]

I was wondering where it was. Good move, I wouldn't try and drive it out of town, once the pressure drops to the point where we notice it slipping, I think it goes down pretty fast.

We need some more numbers, not many of us TD6 owners up here...

[Declan]

Well the old girl is gone in for auto surgery, she should come back all better & stronger and with a lower stall speed I will inform all of you about her condition and how well she recovers. :twisted::twisted::twisted:

[33chinacars]

[bigsmile][smilebigeye][bigsmile1][bigsmile][smilebigeye][bigsmile1]Yeah. Hip Hip Hooray. Party time. Finally. My baby is back on the road . After 12 months & $7400. Only driven about 10 km's so far but bloody happy. All working well :D:D:D:D Thanks everybody for your help & advice.

[Homestar]

Great news mate! Glad your back in the drivers seat. :)

[33chinacars]

Me Toooo:D:D:D:D

[rangietragic]

When was the "upgrade" supposed to have been done?Mines a 03 my.

[33chinacars]

Here's the brake down of my auto . GM 5L40E

Mechanic $ 750 Came to my shed
New Trans Cooler $ 485.60 . Could have got this cheaper
Transport of auto $ 553 From Portland to Brisbane return
Rebuild auto $ 5579 This included a new clutch drum & output shaft ( this added $ 1100 to the price) Sonnax valve body . Machine valve body & front pump. Carbonfibre clutch plates

Total $ 7367.60 + 20 litres of trans fluid

[harlie]

Good to see you back on the road Garry, was thinking the other day it was a while since we spoke.

[33chinacars]

Yes its been awhile . Thanks for all your help mate . Very happy so far. Just took some time to get the money. Had to sell my racecar :censored: