86" Rear Tail shaft length

[Yorkshire_Jon]

All, I'm hoping someone can get their tape measure out!

When I pulled my gearbox out I took a heap of measurements so I could put the replacement LT230 back in in the same place (so that the rear tail shaft would fit / was the correct length).

It now (rather embarrassingly) seems I didn't measure the flange to flange distance, or if I did, I didn't write it down!

Could someone please advise what this distance should be when parked on level ground?

Thanks in advance,
Jon

[123rover50]

The front and rear shafts on the 86 are the same length.
If you have one or the other, offer it up and see how it fits. Leave a bit of travel on the splines. I usually put them half way.

[Yorkshire_Jon]

The front and rear shafts on the 86 are the same length.
If you have one or the other, offer it up and see how it fits. Leave a bit of travel on the splines. I usually put them half way.

Thanks for this. I didn't know if half way along the splines would be OK, or if there was some better way / critical measurement.

I'll use this method for longitudinal placement.

(For lateral placement Im lining the 300Tdi crankshaft pulley bolt up with the centre of the starter handle hole in the front cross member. Centre of bolt will be 1" - 2" above centre of the cross-member hole.)

Thanks
Jon

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Hi Jon

Can I ask which LT230/gearbox combination and box you are using?

Have you got the short bellhousing and Rakeway short rear output* for it?

How is the space going?

If space is a problem, you may be able to use the 80" rear propshaft.

Also, It is not critical that the front or rear output flange is in the same longitudinal (or vertical) alignment as the longitudinal alignment of the diff pinion, so long as the two flanges are parrallel horizontally (and vertically). In fact it can be advantagous if there is a little offset between the box output and diff input.

Diana

BTW: piccies would be interesting! :)

* off road race transfer box motorsport (http://www.rakeway.co.uk/page12.html)

[Yorkshire_Jon]

Hi Diana,
Ive got the Stumpy bell housing, R380 and LT230.

Interestingly enough space is an interesting one. I expected the engine bay to be the problem whereas it turns out that more head scratching has gone on with regards longitudinal placement, specifically with regards to length of rear shaft!

Please tell me more about the Rakeway short rear output. Sorry Dianna, Just seen the link to Rakeway... No I haven't got one of those :)

I would prefer to leave about 4" between the face of the crankshaft pulley and the inner most face of the front cross member - this will allow for "easy" (relatively speaking) placement of the radiator, electric fan and intercooler without moving the headlight panel.

However, to make the standard rear prop fit that 4" has to reduce to approx 1.75". I had thought about shortening my existing prop a little but hadn't really given it much thought until all other options had been exhausted.

Also, due to the difference in spacing between front and rear flanges between the original S1 T/Box and LT230 I will need to turn up a spacer to install on the front flange to allow the front prop to connect to - this will be approx 4" long.

Finally, due to lack of space between prop and rear cross member I don't think I'll be able to use the LT230 Handbrake. Instead I will use either the original S1 handbrake (with an adapter collar to mate to the LT230) and linkage or a hybrid X-Eng disc brake. I have one on the Defender so can take that off to test fit the calliper and disc and then I'll need to speak to Simon at X-Eng to see how he fits the S-1 linkage to his series version of the disc brake and cobble that together on the LT230 version.

Finally +1... Would you happen to know where I could get a set of tracts-joints to convert my front axle from the UJ's to tracta's? I need to do this so I can run permanent 4WD through the LT230.


Cheers
Jon

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Hi Jon

I only found the rakeway kit the other day and 70mm extra sounds inviting. I am doing a sort of similar mod to a SIIB Forward Control behind an original Rover six, so a bit of work was had mating the smaller 6 cyl engine adapter to the 4cyl/200TDi bellhousing. That bit is over now.

What worked out is that I will have a transmission that is about 130mm longer, the problem is that the prop shaft goes through a hole in the cross member which is not a problem in the 86", but the handbrake is the issue.

I have the X-Eng kit too (and you're welcome to borrow it if you need to measure up anything). But the location of the calliper will foul the cross member. I went to a lot of trouble getting a solid rotor with a large top hat section to migrate the rotor forward and after finding a Maserati Biturbo one, I subsequently found that there is a Toyota Corona one that may fit better and the rotor may not have to be machined thinner.

Currently looking at reversing the caliper so it protrudes forward rather than to the rear, which may give better clearance issues over the cross member.

In regards to the grill panel, on the Holden six conversions, we used to cut the back off the headlamp buckets and plate them back over. This still gave us enough room for the headlamps but increased the space in front of the radiator by nearly 2", this may be useful for the intercooler etc.

The aluminium grill panels don't stand up too well to the weight of the radiator and adding an intercooler off it will exacerbate the issues. I would be mounting the weight of the radiatoe off the front cross member if at all possible and leave the aluminium (or steel) panel to support itself plus the mudguards and/or locate the top of the radiator only, (but not its weight).

Are you using a defender or disco box? How is the position of the gearstick?

Diana

[Lotz-A-Landies]

...
Finally +1... Would you happen to know where I could get a set of tracts-joints to convert my front axle from the UJ's to tracta's? I need to do this so I can run permanent 4WD through the LT230.

Cheers
JonJon

I have an 80" on the farm that will be going to scrap. However have you thought about using a stage 1 V8/Isuzu front end? They are already CV although a little wider than the Series one type but hardly noticeable and already fitted with 3.54:1 diffs. If you use a SIII 88" rear you get fully floating rear axles as well, you then have to swap the 4.7 diffs to the 3.54 and it's all standard parts. ( I can probably help you out with a 3.54 diff).

Diana.

[123rover50]

You have probably seen on LRSOC that lots of brits run permanent 4wd through unis without a problem.
Same as shoving the yellow knob down on gravel roads, I dont think its a problem as you are unlikely to use full lock at high speeds.

I am putting a Defender 200tdi & LT77 into a S1 88 shortly and tossing up between the Ashcroft series T box conversion or sticking with the 230.

[Yorkshire_Jon]

...
In regards to the grill panel, on the Holden six conversions, we used to cut the back off the headlamp buckets and plate them back over. This still gave us enough room for the headlamps but increased the space in front of the radiator by nearly 2", this may be useful for the intercooler etc.

The aluminium grill panels don't stand up too well to the weight of the radiator and adding an intercooler off it will exacerbate the issues. I would be mounting the weight of the radiatoe off the front cross member if at all possible and leave the aluminium (or steel) panel to support itself plus the mudguards and/or locate the top of the radiator only, (but not its weight).

Are you using a defender or disco box? How is the position of the gearstick?

Diana

Hi Diana,
Excellent idea regarding the headlamp bowls, i'll keep that in mind.

Re the radiator, it was always my intention to sit / mount it on the cross member and not to the grill panel. Thanks for the heads up though.

Its a Defender box. Gear stick positions with the stumpy bell housing make things look like they'll be OK. Note that I haven't finalise the position of everything yet, but they are definitely in the right ball park.

The bulkhead will be able to remain as standard but I will need to cut the seatbox slightly to accommodate the slightly wider gearbox. I think it will need a good half inch all the way around the existing aperture.

R
J

[Yorkshire_Jon]

You have probably seen on LRSOC that lots of brits run permanent 4wd through unis without a problem.
Same as shoving the yellow knob down on gravel roads, I dont think its a problem as you are unlikely to use full lock at high speeds.

I have heard so many conflicting thoughts and ideas on this! I have always thought that later on down the track I would need to change the diffs out for 3.54:1's but didn't think (originally) that I would have problems running permanent 4WD through the uni's, especially as my current axle has free wheeling hubs.

A few people have said it should be OK, others have said it will clunk and click and fail! Diana's suggestion on the SIII axles warrants further discussion though, especially if the track width is just about the same.

Maybe I should just leave the axles alone until the thing is running and then play it by ear!




I am putting a Defender 200tdi & LT77 into a S1 88 shortly and tossing up between the Ashcroft series T box conversion or sticking with the 230.


I thought about the Ashcroft T/Box conversion too. Im sure you already know but they have two options, an adapter to mate the S1 Transfer box to the gearbox and a kit that removes permanent 4WD functionality from the LT230.

I opted for neither of those options and figured I'd squeeze the standard LT230 in there, mainly because I wanted to retain permanent 4WD and knew the tracta solution at least would allow that.

R
Jon