V8 diesel conversion on Perentie

[DirtyDog]

I'm thinking about a nice big v8 diesel conversion for my Perentie, I'm thinking if I'm going to do a conversion I might as well do it while I have the body off, stripped and ready for paint... What's everyone's thoughts on which diesel, thinking Toyota or chev but open to others and rest of driveline specs, any advice about what may cause a problem ect... Thanks in advance...

[BigJon]

They already have a great diesel. Turbo it and be happy.

[DirtyDog]

Not doubting that for a second but it is a very old truck engine in essence, I'd also like to be able to tow a half decent load... Another reason is simply because I enjoy having a project and building up my own vehicles and I think the Perentie has lots of room for modification, and because a nice big v8 will be a lot more fun.

[rovercare]

Not doubting that for a second but it is a very old truck engine in essence, I'd also like to be able to tow a half decent load... Another reason is simply because I enjoy having a project and building up my own vehicles and I think the Perentie has lots of room for modification, and because a nice big v8 will be a lot more fun.

No really, you have a good engine for it, unless by V8 diesel you mean duramax, then there is pretty much nothing better than the Isuzu, just add 30psi with a variable vanve turbo, intercooler and max out the fuel, it will perform far better than stinky 6.2 and 6.5 chev oilers and return better figures, it will then pull any load you like, easily

[Blknight.aus]

I agree...

Although I wouldnt bother with VNT but thats because of personal preference balanced agaisnt budget and driving style. Although If you think youve got the money to source and drop in a v8 diesel.....

There are guys in the states that run those engines under a difference guise at 60PSI.....

you'd also want to do up the front end and make sure the center diff was mickey mouse in the process.

[Ancient Mariner]

As mentioned stick with the Isuzu but if you really want to stuff it up:o 8.2 Litre Detroit turbo v8 no electronics unit injectors no rocket ship but will tow your 40 foot trailer full off spare diffs .axles and gear boxes no problems at all:D and sound nice to

[DirtyDog]

I might be missing something, so correct me if I'm wrong but the 6.6l duramax can make 220kw and 705nm of torque on a safe, reliable almost stock tune. The toyota 1vd-ftv single turbo 150kw and 420nm, the twin turbo which I know used to burn oil for numerous reasons so would have to do some research and see if toyota has fixed this, makes 195kw and 650nm of torque, again both on safe, reliable almost stock tunes. Compared to the 4bd1 turbo making around 90kw and 314nm of torque on a stock engine... They are massive differences... Also I'm not saying the 4bd1 isn't an excellent engine from everything I've read it sounds like an amazing piece of kit, I'm just in a position were I have the time and money and wouldn't mind making something a bit different, if the gains are worth it...

[AndyG]

What about something out of a wrecked BMW, Jag or MB Car, (diesel) I imagine they would win hands down on KW per Kg for a start.

[DirtyDog]

Andy availability, cost, reliability, aftermarket parts available, electronics would be a nightmare, information available, and maybe torque also there are lots of land rovers with the 6.6 duramax already in them to get ideas ect from. if I had that sort of money it would get a V10 VW touareg engine :twisted::twisted:

[rovercare]

Andy availability, cost, reliability, aftermarket parts available, electronics would be a nightmare, information available, and maybe torque also there are lots of land rovers with the 6.6 duramax already in them to get ideas ect from. if I had that sort of money it would get a V10 VW touareg engine :twisted::twisted:

A duramax will cost you 10-15k, my LLY and Allison was 10.5k and they don't fit well in a rover engine bay, but if you are removing the Isuzu, this is the engine to replace it with

a 4BD1 will perform similar to a stock 1VD with good turbo/intercooler and fuel up

[DirtyDog]

I can get a low km duramax out of the states for $4k easily...

[Blknight.aus]

I might be missing something, so correct me if I'm wrong but the 6.6l duramax can make 220kw and 705nm of torque on a safe, reliable almost stock tune. The toyota 1vd-ftv single turbo 150kw and 420nm, the twin turbo which I know used to burn oil for numerous reasons so would have to do some research and see if toyota has fixed this, makes 195kw and 650nm of torque, again both on safe, reliable almost stock tunes. Compared to the 4bd1 turbo making around 90kw and 314nm of torque on a stock engine... They are massive differences... Also I'm not saying the 4bd1 isn't an excellent engine from everything I've read it sounds like an amazing piece of kit, I'm just in a position were I have the time and money and wouldn't mind making something a bit different, if the gains are worth it...

In red.

they're not.

the 4bd1 worked up is more than capable of outputing safely and reliably far more power than the rest of the driveline, vehicle and brakes are reasonably capable of dealing with. (hell if you're wanting to spend the money on it you can do that with a 300tdi)

remember 2 basic basic guide lines for turbo diesels. (and this generally assumes similar technology levels)

a given size diesel engine running at 1ATM of boost can make as much power as a N/A engine twice the size

an N/A engine can never be as efficient as a an engine half the size running 1 atm boost.



Every single big diesel convestion I've seen lumped into a landy usually fall fowl of one of 3 problems

1. the rest of the landy wasnt made for it and it screws up some other characteristic
2. The engine suffers from heat related issues
3. it ALWAYS costs more than you think....

Im going through that process now and all Im doing is dropping a 3.9l izusu and matching lt95 into a series III

IMHO...

your best efforts are spent on modding your existing block to the 4bd1-t spec and then sorting the turbo out properly.
.

dont forget to uprate the clutch on the way.

[AndyG]

Another option Steyr
Diesel Engine 6 cylinder (3200 cm³) M16 - Steyr Motors (http://www.steyr-motors.com/automotive/engines/diesel-engine-6-cylinder-3200-cm3-m16/)

My ex neighbor sells them, mainly as a marine replacement for 351's , and priced very competitively from memory. Being aimed at A.H the electronics are independent of the implant vehicle/vessel .
But not a V8

[DirtyDog]

Sorry I should have mentioned I don't plan on keeping any of the existing running gear, I'm not sure what I'm going to use yet still at the very beginning of planning stages, if I decide to do it. Some ideas so far and this needs alot more research is buying a wrecked late model range rover from the UK/Europe and using all of the running gear from this. Still exploring other options if anyone has any ideas...

I'm aware of costs and work involved have been building race cars on and off for almost 10 years...

[Blknight.aus]

Sorry I should have mentioned I don't plan on keeping any of the existing running gear, I'm not sure what I'm going to use yet still at the very beginning of planning stages, if I decide to do it. Some ideas so far and this needs alot more research is buying a wrecked late model range rover from the UK/Europe and using all of the running gear from this. Still exploring other options if anyone has any ideas...

I'm aware of costs and work involved have been building race cars on and off for almost 10 years...

well thats a totally different kettle of fish.

If you want real power might I suggest the turbod version of the detroit (or GM) 8V92

I can also reccomend something in the range of jet turbine engines. :)

[101RRS]

Sorry I should have mentioned I don't plan on keeping any of the existing running gear

Well why would you have bought a Perenti then - you could do what you wanted with any old 110 and the start vehicle would have been a lot cheaper.

Cheers

Garry

[DirtyDog]

I'm not aware of many two door, tray back, sft-top 110's in absolute mint condition with 10,000km's on them that I could pick up for $7,000... Also I'm guessing I can sell engine for $2,500 it literally looks brand new, then sell gearbox for around $2,000 considering a rebuild kit cost $1600 and I've almost got my money back for Perentie.

[rovercare]

I can get a low km duramax out of the states for $4k easily...

Well hook me up

[DirtyDog]

Jump on eBay USA buddy plenty there...

[rovercare]

Jump on eBay USA buddy plenty there...

Oh, you mean 100,000+mile units still in the states....I meant 60,000mile units landed in aus:D

[DirtyDog]

Plenty of low km ones around i wont be getting one with more than 30'000 miles, should be able to get it shipped here for around $500 it's one pallet in a container... That's say $5000 all up for a 30,000 mile engine landed in Australia, which is a lot better than 10-14k... :D

[rovercare]

Plenty of low km ones around i wont be getting one with more than 30'000 miles, should be able to get it shipped here for around $500 it's one pallet in a container... That's say $5000 all up for a 30,000 mile engine landed in Australia, which is a lot better than 10-14k... :D

$500 for a pallet? only if you know someone who freights, better know how to lie to avoid the duty and GST aswell:D plus I'd like an Allison on the back and not be an LB7

And if you can get LBZ's with Allison and low kays here for 5k, I'd suggest quitting your job and doing that, cause they happily fetch 15k here

[DirtyDog]

I chucked another $500 in there for duty (which is only 5%) and GST. Have imported a number of engines for customers cars, can pretty much put value at whatever you like. Its not hard to find someone with some spare space in a container, my corvette only cost $3000 to ship over here for a whole car... Yeah they are LBZ's not sure who's buying used ones for 15k when a Brand new engine from GM only cost 14-15k. If i was paying 15k i'd want something like this which only cost 18k and has two massive turbos a supercharger and lots of other fruit, producing crazy numbers...

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/04/542.jpg

[uninformed]

damn, when I have imported stuff over $1k, I have always been stung approx 18% (10% gst + 5% duty + fees)

[Dougal]

Isuzu with compound turbos should be good for over 200kw and well over 800nm.

[DirtyDog]

What would it cost put a compound turbo setup on a Isuzu $6000 Roundabouts, I can spend $10,000 on a 2jz and get 1200hp this doesn't mean it's the best way to do the job...

[stuee]

I chucked another $500 in there for duty (which is only 5%) and GST. Have imported a number of engines for customers cars, can pretty much put value at whatever you like. Its not hard to find someone with some spare space in a container, my corvette only cost $3000 to ship over here for a whole car... Yeah they are LBZ's not sure who's buying used ones for 15k when a Brand new engine from GM only cost 14-15k.


I'll be calling you if I can convince the missus the next project after the 101 needs to be Duramax powered! And obviously my vote is for the duramax if you end up ripping the Isuzu out.

[Blknight.aus]

What would it cost put a compound turbo setup on a Isuzu $6000 Roundabouts, I can spend $10,000 on a 2jz and get 1200hp this doesn't mean it's the best way to do the job...


Nahh $2500ish I would have said, depending on how good you are with your layout and what you choose to compound it with...

you would of course want to start out with the 4bd1-t for the uprated rods, crank, and oil squiters.

[Ancient Mariner]

I chucked another $500 in there for duty (which is only 5%) and GST. Have imported a number of engines for customers cars, can pretty much put value at whatever you like. Its not hard to find someone with some spare space in a container, my corvette only cost $3000 to ship over here for a whole car... Yeah they are LBZ's not sure who's buying used ones for 15k when a Brand new engine from GM only cost 14-15k. If i was paying 15k i'd want something like this which only cost 18k and has two massive turbos a supercharger and lots of other fruit, producing crazy numbers...

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/04/542.jpg
2 blowers 4 turbos this is only a 12 but you can go 16 cyl if you are hungry just keep bolting them together.Might need some major body and suspension work tho no GB needed:D

[Dougal]

What would it cost put a compound turbo setup on a Isuzu $6000 Roundabouts, I can spend $10,000 on a 2jz and get 1200hp this doesn't mean it's the best way to do the job...

Turbos about 1500,rest is just fabrication and fitting everything in with the biggest front mount intercooler.

Even the right single turbo will knock on 200kw which is about 37psi boost at 4000rpm.

But does your engine have piston oil squirters?

[DirtyDog]

Where are you guys getting your turbos from??
A decent brand name turbo by itself will cost me more than that...
The small high pressure turbo you might be able to find one for $1000-1500
But the big atmosphere turbo I couldn't pick up a decent mid-range Garrett for under $2500
A half decent front mount cooler will cost $1500
These are just the main components there are lots of other bits and pieces that end up adding up to a good chunk of money...

[Blknight.aus]

I just had the stock td4 that was grafted onto SWMBOS disco internally redone and rejigged and made to push 40PSI....

cost me $950.

go buy a cheap wrecked turbo in the flavor you like and rebuild it.

it often works out cheaper and you usually score a manifold to abuse.


with the right wheels on it the td4 should work nicely as the push turbo for something like a t40.

[Dougal]

Where are you guys getting your turbos from??
A decent brand name turbo by itself will cost me more than that...
The small high pressure turbo you might be able to find one for $1000-1500
But the big atmosphere turbo I couldn't pick up a decent mid-range Garrett for under $2500
A half decent front mount cooler will cost $1500
These are just the main components there are lots of other bits and pieces that end up adding up to a good chunk of money...

TD04HL 19t and Chinese gt3582 will do it.
I've already sized these for compressor and turbine match in a compound set.

[DirtyDog]

Good points, this is sounding like a little bit of fun...
Has anyone got a compound turbo setup on the Isuzu??
What sort of numbers are people getting out of their modified Isuzu single turbo set-ups and how hard is controlling temps while running 30- 40 psi,
Are you guys using FMIC, SMIC or V-mount coolers??
How does the running gear hold up? And is reliability compromised?

[Bigbjorn]

well thats a totally different kettle of fish.

If you want real power might I suggest the turbod version of the detroit (or GM) 8V92

I can also reccomend something in the range of jet turbine engines. :)

Dave, I am sure you had tongue firmly in cheek when you wrote that. An 8V92TA weighs over 1 ton and would need the likes of a 1200 series Roadranger or a 1420 Spicer to stand up to one.

The Detroit 8.2 litre was not a very good engine. Had lots of problems. Good concept and clever design features but the end result was not a happy one.

[Dougal]

Good points, this is sounding like a little bit of fun...
Has anyone got a compound turbo setup on the Isuzu??
What sort of numbers are people getting out of their modified Isuzu single turbo set-ups and how hard is controlling temps while running 30- 40 psi,
Are you guys using FMIC, SMIC or V-mount coolers??
How does the running gear hold up? And is reliability compromised?

I'm not aware of any currently running compound isuzus. Carcrafter did his one accidentally up to triple figures of boost. Custom injection pump, big front mount it, will over 500hp but personal problems led to the vehicles demise.
One of the guys here fitted a compound set but had issues with gearbox rattle and removed it. You need to double the flywheel inertia when you double low end torque.
One guy in the US currently finishing an 80 series cruiser with compound 4BD1T.

I want to one day. But life keeps getting in the way. Bush 65 has a 4BD1T and compound turbos off an international diesel but not sure on current plans or progress. Stock 4BD1T injection pump has over 200kw worth of fuel delivery.

Landrover do not make a gearbox that will survive. The lt230 transfer is good. I have an isuzu 5 speed gearbox.

[Blknight.aus]

Dave, I am sure you had tongue firmly in cheek when you wrote that. An 8V92TA weighs over 1 ton and would need the likes of a 1200 series Roadranger or a 1420 Spicer to stand up to one.

The Detroit 8.2 litre was not a very good engine. Had lots of problems. Good concept and clever design features but the end result was not a happy one.

maybe.....

but they do make nice power......

I happen to know for certain a tale involving a drunk trooper and a drunk mechanic and an ASM with a sense of misadventure back in about 2001 who might have had a 6v53 out of an m113 for repair works while there was a 6x6 there with the engine out and phrases like "wouldnt it be cool?" are you drunk? "yeah" welll you know...... and huh, looks like it will squeeze in there, I wonder if "NO" and "you drunken idiots put the engines back in the right vehicles and go back to the boozer"

Could have been down in sydney, say holsworthy-ish

[oowa]

Not doubting that for a second but it is a very old truck engine in essence, I'd also like to be able to tow a half decent load... Another reason is simply because I enjoy having a project and building up my own vehicles and I think the Perentie has lots of room for modification, and because a nice big v8 will be a lot more fun.



While all that money is being spent on powering it, put more aside for engineering it to legally tow more than 1200 kg if that is your desire.


Bruce

[DirtyDog]

The Perentie will be living up north in WA, don't have to worry about engineering as long as its safe...

[isuzurover]

Where are you guys getting your turbos from??
A decent brand name turbo by itself will cost me more than that...
The small high pressure turbo you might be able to find one for $1000-1500
But the big atmosphere turbo I couldn't pick up a decent mid-range Garrett for under $2500
A half decent front mount cooler will cost $1500
These are just the main components there are lots of other bits and pieces that end up adding up to a good chunk of money...

Some comments:

I have a 2nd hand RB30 T2560 that I paid $300 on Ebay for. It has done >150k km since it was fitted.

A 4BD1 is a slug. Don't consider repowering unless you have driven a properly set up 4BD1T.

That said, I drove a VDJ79 cruiser recently and the 4.5 single turbo was tempting (see earlier post).

I am not aware of anyone who has done a compound turbo on a manual 4BD1 who has not been plagued by pulsing/vibration due to the light flywheel.

Modding the 4BD1 will be the cheapest option though...