2.7 TDV6 Engine oil

[rb30gtr]

Hi All,

Has anyone strayed from what the manufacturer recommends for engine oil for the TDV6?

If so what did you go to?

Thanks,
Ben

[rb30gtr]

FYI - Going through a few Disco UK threads:

You must only look for two things:

Viscosity: 5W30
Manufacturer spec: 913C or 934B.

To see a extensive list of oils and an original Land Rover document, look here:

DiscoTr.es • Información (http://www.discotr.es/viewtopic.php?p=116536#p116536)

Look what engine, get you spec, and choose a manufacturer based in price, availability, or whatever you want.

Brand is irrelevant, dont believe in magical molecules that escalate to reach all the moving parts and smile in your engine while travel thorught it fighting wear like John Wayne... ONLY VISCOSITY AND MANUFACTURER SPEC are important. These are the only thing that assures you that the oils fullfills the requirements of your engine.

So, any other spec out of manufacturer preconization is not correct for the aplication (same happens in Automatic Transmission oil)

[Rich84]

I have been using Penrite Enviro+ 5/30 for the last 50K km, it's a ACEA C3 spec oil mainly for diesel engines and diesel engines with DPF's.


However being a DPF/specialist cat compatible oil, it is also lower in ZDDP and phosphorous.


So since the TDV6 doesn't have a DPF I've decided to start using Castrol Edge Titanium 5/30 - ACEA A3/B4 - as it has a much higher ZDDP/phosphorous level than even the A3/B4 rating requires. For engines that need to endure very high stress/load situations as the TDV6 ie total vehicle/train weight often exceeding 5 tonne for mine in arduous offroad conditions, sometimes exceeding 6 tonne, you need all the protection you can get!

[rb30gtr]

I have been using Penrite Enviro+ 5/30 for the last 50K km, it's a ACEA C3 spec oil mainly for diesel engines and diesel engines with DPF's.


However being a DPF/specialist cat compatible oil, it is also lower in ZDDP and phosphorous.


So since the TDV6 doesn't have a DPF I've decided to start using Castrol Edge Titanium 5/30 - ACEA A3/B4 - as it has a much higher ZDDP/phosphorous level than even the A3/B4 rating requires. For engines that need to endure very high stress/load situations as the TDV6 ie total vehicle/train weight often exceeding 5 tonne for mine in arduous offroad conditions, sometimes exceeding 6 tonne, you need all the protection you can get!

I'll have a look at the Castrol Edge Titanium! Thanks.

[sheerluck]

I've just put Castrol Edge Titanium 5w/30 in mine too.

[smwilk]

Penrite HPR5 5W-40. I've been using this for a while. Not sure the penrite enviro is compatible with the 2.7?

[NomadicD3]

Hi Guys,
A few guys I was talking to recently say that all use the good ol Mobil-1 5-50 in their various diesels NB all modern diesels some including the Disco D3. One of the guys is a diesel fitter and he swears buy it.
Any thoughts? Any reason to think its a bad idea?
regards
Brian

[ADMIRAL]

Why bother when the manufacturer recommended oil is now freely available. Castrol Magnatec Professional A5-5W-30 in 20 Litre drums ex your local Castrol agent. Or go to your Ford Dealer and buy 5 litre containers of Ford branded oil, as used in the 2.7litre Diesel Territory. I understand it is the Magnatec Professional repackaged. Oh and the oil filter is exactly the same ( even down to the OE manufacturer numbers ) from the same Ford dealer.

[Ean Austral]

I have been using Penrite HPR5 5w-40 full synthetic, and am very happy.


I spoke with the Penrite rep as our companys fleet of trawlers have all changed to Penrite oil for all there machinery and I asked him about oil for the D3, this is what he recommended for the car in the tropical climate we are in. Far hotter than 5 degrees that's for sure.


Cheers Ean

[Learner]

I have been using Penrite HPR5 5w-40 full synthetic, and am very happy.


I spoke with the Penrite rep as our companys fleet of trawlers have all changed to Penrite oil for all there machinery and I asked him about oil for the D3, this is what he recommended for the car in the tropical climate we are in. Far hotter than 5 degrees that's for sure.


Cheers Ean

Hi Ean,
I'm glad that someone convinced you to move away from 15w-40.

[Ean Austral]

Hi Ean,
I'm glad that someone convinced you to move away from 15w-40.

I have never used 15w-40 in the D3 but did in the D1 & D2. I always used a mineral oil until this car.

Cheers Ean

[rick130]

Hi Ean,
I'm glad that someone convinced you to move away from 15w-40.


and further to what Ean said, the oils he's used in the past easily exceeded the spec called for in those engines.

A 15W-40 has reasonable pumpability down to around -15*C, a far lower temp than anything he'll ever see !

[Barryp]

Question, is it possible that using oil with a higher viscosity could contribute to bearing shells moving due to drag when cold and the crank failures that have been suffered by a few 2.7 litre D3's?
Regards
Barryp

[Graeme]

Why bother when the manufacturer recommended oil is now freely available. Castrol Magnatec Professional A5-5W-30 in 20 Litre drums ex your local Castrol agent.I've been using the DPF version Magnatec Professional C1 5W-30 in my 3.0 but will be using the A5 version from now on because of its reported better lubrication qualities than the C1 version and my 3.0 isn't fitted with a DPF. LR advise the use of a A1/B1 which has been superceded by A5/B5, not A3/B4 which has different characteristics although I don't know the specifics.

[Graeme]

Question, is it possible that using oil with a higher viscosity could contribute to bearing shells moving due to drag when cold and the crank failures that have been suffered by a few 2.7 litre D3's?
Regards
BarrypLR issued a technical bulletin warning against using any different viscosity stating that it can lead to bearing failure.

[Barryp]

Glad to hear that Graeme, that is why I stick to 5W-30.
The manufacturer has a good reason for the recommended viscosity.
Regards
Barryp

[Learner]

I have never used 15w-40 in the D3 but did in the D1 & D2. I always used a mineral oil until this car.

Cheers Ean

Perhaps not, but you were considering it. :eek:

Best Wishes,
Peter

[Ean Austral]

Perhaps not, but you were considering it. :eek:

Best Wishes,
Peter


Yep Peter you are correct, but decided that 5w-40 would be a better option .

Cheers Ean

[Rich84]

I've been using the DPF version Magnatec Professional C1 5W-30 in my 3.0 but will be using the A5 version from now on because of its reported better lubrication qualities than the C1 version and my 3.0 isn't fitted with a DPF. LR advise the use of a A1/B1 which has been superceded by A5/B5, not A3/B4 which has different characteristics although I don't know the specifics.


The specifics are A5/B5 requires a specific HTHS viscosity of >2.9 and <3.5. Otherwise the characteristics are extremely similar.


Castrol Edge Titanium 5/30 has HTHS visco of 3.5-3.6 so on or just outside of the higher rating, but it has what I'd consider a stronger additive package ie higher zinc/SAPS etc. And it is also based on a better Group IV full synthetic, where Magnatic is group III which is technically not a full synthetic at all. HTHS is important but it's not the be all end all. 2.9 cP is considered the minimum HTHS for any 30 weight oil.


But that's just my thought process and what works for me; I expect we're all using oil that suits how we drive, where we drive, how many cold starts, etc. If you're not doing a huge amount of cold starts then perhaps a 40 weight oil would work very well too, especially one like HPR5 which technically has a specification somewhere between a thicker 30 weight and a thinner 40 weight. I would not however use 5 50 under any circumstances in this particular engine - the design of the crankshaft and bearing configuration not having any tabs makes these engines particularly sensitive to wear, and the spec for 50 weight oil allows for the visco to be up to 115% thicker than 30 weight.


Remember the clearance between the crankshaft and the bearing shell is engineered so that the recommended oil can spread over the entire bearing surface before the piston reaches firing position which is nearly always before TDC. 50 weight leaves open the possibility that the oil will not spread quickly enough and therefore lead to wear on the bearing shell.

[rick130]

Remember the clearance between the crankshaft and the bearing shell is engineered so that the recommended oil can spread over the entire bearing surface before the piston reaches firing position which is nearly always before TDC. 50 weight leaves open the possibility that the oil will not spread quickly enough and therefore lead to wear on the bearing shell.


That's not what actually happens though.

As soon as the crank starts to turn, a hydrodynamic wedge of oil forms and lifts the crank and bearing shell apart and the crank journal floats on this.

The pressure provided by the pump is there purely to prevent the oil wedge overheating by pushing the existing oil away and replenishing with nice, cool(er) oil.

I think what may be happening with these engines, and it's only a guess, I'm not familiar with them, is that the more viscous oil its creating too much drag between the shell and journal leading to the spun shell, (and then a lube failure as the oil feed hole has been 'lost') unlike a 'normal' spun bearing failure where the hydrodynamic and then boundary layer lubrication has broken down (oil breakdown, too much clearance, etc.) and that leads to a metal to metal situation.

[Rich84]

That's not what actually happens though.

As soon as the crank starts to turn, a hydrodynamic wedge of oil forms and lifts the crank and bearing shell apart and the crank journal floats on this.

The pressure provided by the pump is there purely to prevent the oil wedge overheating by pushing the existing oil away and replenishing with nice, cool(er) oil.



That's what I meant! :D :thumbsup: