Hoping to buy a 2002-2006 RR

[Lof]

Hi all, this is my first post here.

I'm in the market for my first Rangey. I'm hoping to get my hands on a fully optioned 2002-2005 with the BMW V8 or ideally, to stretch to a 2006 supercharged model (not the sports model).

I was hoping you guys might be able to give me a couple of tips.

Are there any mileage points of importance e.g. where major work is recommended?

Should I be looking for anything in particular in the service records e.g. new transmission etc?

The advertised prices for these vehicles seems to vary quite a lot (I've seen the supercharged 2006 advertised for around $42k and $60k+) can you give me a rough idea of a fair price?

Looks like a nice forum by the way. I hope/think I have posted this in the right section.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers,

Lof

[spudboy]

Any particular reason you are after the V8? I'd go for a diesel - they are a fantastic engine.

Apart from the engine choice, try to get one where the gearbox has been serviced. LR said they were "sealed for life" which meant at least until the end of their warranty. Do a search here for gearbox issues with these models, there have been some problems.

Also check that front diff has been exchanged under warranty. Initial diffs had issues with alignment. I got mine replaced even though car was out of warranty for no charge. Known issue.

HTH
David

[CSBrisie]

I'm pretty sure MY'07 (say Sept 06 onwards) Supercharged V8 got the rear e-diff as standard and ofcourse Terrain Response - a huge step up in off road ability.
cheers

[Scouse]

A lot of the V8s had cooling system pressurisation problems - some cars eat radiators & hoses for breakfast. It's going to be hard to check on a used car though.


Also, a blocked radiator can affect the transmission cooler which can cause the transmission to fail prematurely. Again, hard to check when looking at a used car but a pre-purchase inspection by a mechanic/workshop should include a check of the transmission fluid anyway. They'll soon know if it's heat affected.

[Lof]

Thanks for the advice guys, just the sort of thing I was after.

As far as petrol vs. diesel goes, It's really just a personal preference. Not sure if it's entirely sensible but if I was entirely sensible I probably wouldn't be llooking to buy an old rangey to start with!

[Strangerover]

Thanks for the advice guys, just the sort of thing I was after.

As far as petrol vs. diesel goes, It's really just a personal preference. Not sure if it's entirely sensible but if I was entirely sensible I probably wouldn't be llooking to buy an old rangey to start with!

Entirely sensible seems to mean a characterless asian boringbox, though they're not perfect either. Once you drive your rangie you'll be hooked for life, and be forgiving of her little peculiarities ie. catastrophic transmission failures etc.
Re. petrol V8 vs. diesel, diesel has better range (ie. L/100km), useful when offroad. Petrol economy is actually not far behind though. Diesel is much noisier than the V8, fan being on continually can be an issue (it is with mine anyway). Diesel has plenty of power, V8 has even more. BMW straight six diesel seems to have fewer issues than the later V8 diesel, though less power. Tyre & wheel choices are more limited with later models due to larger brakes & therefore wheel sizes. Very happy with my 2003 6-cyl diesel.

[jonnyjon05]

Lof,

I brought my Rover recently, I went for the 2002 3L as it is full BMW electrics which I have had previous experience with and diesel as I would not feel as violated by the petrol station when it came time to fill up.

I brought mine for well under 20k in the colour I had been waiting for. The gear box had been overhauled for $5200 6 months before I brought it. However the inside needed some TLC and the outside has a few imperfections but I am working on it..

I drove a few petrol's before I brought the diesel one sight unseen from a mutual acquaintance on the Gold Coast (visa expired had to go back to the UK) and the petrol's I drove didn't have the spark to me, so much so I was thinking of just sinking money in to the P38.

As soon as I saw this diesel I was in love and driving did not disappoint.

If you go down the same route as me I would recommend a remap, for 99% of your driving it will not load up the gear box any more then standard, it will just do it more efficiently. 100+ extra torque makes a huge difference. EGR removal made a massive difference as well.

Good Hunting,

Jon.

[rar110]

With a budget of about $30k I was convinced a 2008/9 D3 tdv6 was the go. For some reason I keep checking on ads for a latish 3.0 diesel L322. Am I mad?

I'm going from a 110 which I use for family trips and fairly regular beach work. Looking for a bit more comfort when chewing up HW km to get places.

Feedback appreciated.

[chaybra]

I got my FFRR a few months back, coming from heavy experience with off roading in other vehicle from suzuki sierras, classic rangies, discos to VW Touaregs, and my word I am still being amazed by the abilities of the rangie. I went for a late model TD6 (2006) apart from the stupid gear box using the TC slip instead of changing gear (Can be sorted with a modified computed from the EU) they are bang on.
First thing I did with mine was service the gearbox and fit a HD tc (preventive maintenance)

What ever you get you will be amazed at the engineering of these things

[Grumbles]

A lot of the V8s had cooling system pressurisation problems - some cars eat radiators & hoses for breakfast. .

I'd have thought that if a car had over pressurizing issues then it would be from something in the cooling system failing. I'd imagine from new that they didn't over pressurize so I'm at a loss to understand why when the car is older that the over pressurization can't be eliminated by replacing what ever the faulty part of the system is.

[Homestar]

I'd have thought that if a car had over pressurizing issues then it would be from something in the cooling system failing. I'd imagine from new that they didn't over pressurize so I'm at a loss to understand why when the car is older that the over pressurization can't be eliminated by replacing what ever the faulty part of the system is.

If you can work out a magic bullet, go over to the FFRR site and help out all the poor souls there that can't.

They did actually have an issue from the start I believe, but when new everything held together long enough for the warranty to expire. As soon as a hose gets a bit old, it will pop, as will the radiator.

Not sure if its just one issue or multiple issues, but it does seem to be the biggest fault with the earlier v8's

[Grumbles]

Well there you go. I had no idea that there was an endemic, non fixable issue from new with the V8s.

[rar110]

I got my FFRR a few months back, coming from heavy experience with off roading in other vehicle from suzuki sierras, classic rangies, discos to VW Touaregs, and my word I am still being amazed by the abilities of the rangie. I went for a late model TD6 (2006) apart from the stupid gear box using the TC slip instead of changing gear (Can be sorted with a modified computed from the EU) they are bang on. First thing I did with mine was service the gearbox and fit a HD tc (preventive maintenance) What ever you get you will be amazed at the engineering of these things

Is fitting a HD torque converter expensive? Is a trans service about the same cost as a D3?

[chaybra]

Is fitting a HD torque converter expensive? Is a trans service about the same cost as a D3?

Cost $800 all up....i think? there are a few options for people who re manufacture the TC with HD components. a few fragments of clutch material had made it to the filter at 150K and i think it had the whole box done at 60k under warranty.

Now I drive with the TC in mind and try to lock it up as soon as I can from 60kph. I will be investing in the eco box tune as soon I sell my damn VW....any one want to buy a V8 Touareg?:twisted:

[Laurie]

Check Harlie's posts on his box rebuild.
On thr Ffrr site one member said he changed the main V8 thermostat housing for a BMW equivelent, and had a lot better system. He believed the higher pressure system used in the RR was due to UK emission regs.

Laurie

[Laurie]

Found the link !

fullfatrr.com - View topic - 4.4 Thermostats - could it be this easy for a lower temp ? (http://www.fullfatrr.com/forum/topic13318.html?highlight=v8+thermostat+housing)

Laurie

[Homestar]

Not sure - I've never really investigated it, I was just going off the main complaints I hear from V8 owners.

I've driven one and nearly bought it - silky smooth and more power than the diesel. I could live with its issues I think - I've managed to put up with all the ones that go with owning the diesel.:D

[harlie]

Is fitting a HD torque converter expensive? Is a trans service about the same cost as a D3?

Fitting a HD converter to an original box is a band-aid solution; it will last a bit longer than the original but that’s it. Don’t bother.

These transmissions do not fail due to the TC. The TC is just the obvious symptom (when you loose drive, the box is opened and there are bits of TC clutch everywhere) – it is the symptom not the cause.

They fail due to pressure drop, once it looses pressure the TC slips and chews itself to bits – a HD converter will just last a bit longer before it goes the same way, then you’ll be on here harping on about how no one makes a converter that’s heavy enough… There are many people who have had a trans failure, fitted a HD converter without addressing the pressure issue - low and behold it lasts 4-12 months before they have no drive again. Spend some time with the guys who have been involved in the BMW warranty work for the last 15 years and there is a different line of advice from them.

Unfortunately due to the fact that the TC clutch is usually completely destroyed and all else visually looks fine, most people point to the TC. However, If you get the pressure components tested you find the real cause.

All BWMs (actually all makes) with the 5L40 have exactly the same problem. Can’t tell me the E46 318i with the 1.9 four pot that won’t pull the skin of a custard is eating TCs because they aren’t strong enough…

If you want to do a preventative fix. Do
· the valve body – easy to remove and the hydraulic specialist will test it and sleave/replace what needs doing.
· The main pump
· Pressure control regulator
· TC clutch replacement because it will be worn due to the pressure issues.
· To improve drivability ask for a 15% stall speed reduction while the TC is open.

When you sort your pressure you will notice it behaves quite differently – no need for software updates. The 5L40 has a fundamental design flaw related to pressure.

For the record, my box was removed at the first sign of TC clutch slip. 183k, 60k with 505nm retune, plenty of towing. The standard factory TC clutch looked near perfect apart from the obvious signs of recent heat from 2 days of slipping. There was some debris in the pan. It was last serviced at 175 at which point there was no debris in the pan. Because everyone told me that the trans would fail, I had done a crap load of research well before hand, knew what signs to look for, and had a good idea what to do when these slight signs started.

[Strangerover]

Great reply, Harlie- thanks for clearing this up.
Question- what did the initial slippage of the TC feel like? What should we look out for?

Sent from my GT-I9300 using AULRO mobile app

[harlie]

The first sign was vibration/harshness @ 80-85km/h when applying throttle on a nice hill – those who know Brisbane, for me it was Sth bound on the Gateway Bridge. At this speed it is in top gear with the TC locked and it is pretty steep (the gateway goes from near sea level on the north side to a height for ships to pass under).

My car did this 3 times over a week, same spot. I then tried below.

The simple definitive test is: with the TC clutch locked (say 90-95), give it plenty of throttle (but you don’t want a kick down), if it is slipping the RPM goes up but the speed doesn’t follow. The car should just bolt; it should feel like a manual. This is the same way we determined if the clutch was gone on our old manual cars – those were the days….

After the first conformation of the test above, I literally drove it straight to the BMW trans guru here in BNE – prior research had all pointed to him so I knew where to go. I waited 20mins or so, he and I went for a quick circle. He then explained to me what’s what. At this stage the car is still driving perfectly apart from those 2 symptoms above. By COB that day the box was out and the valve body and TC on their way to different specialists.

IMO some of these cars are being sold after the first signs are recognised, the owner takes it in and the trans specialist gives him the news. That night it is on carsales. This is why we have members here who have had trans failure nearly as soon as the bought the car. Looking back, it would have been easy to sell my car, other than these subtle signs it drove perfectly, which my wife kept saying when I arrived home in the loaner.

I owned the car for 6 years before it played up, if you aren’t familiar with the TD6 drive train, you would not notice anything wrong – do the definitive test. To make matters worse, the ECU doesn’t log anything until its way too late.

[rar110]

Thanks Harlie. Great summary, much appreciated.

[jsp]

My TD6 is the first one in the country. It had trans failure at 180K, and a reco unit was fitted.

I noticed at 250K (after having trans serviced twice since buying the car at 190K) that the TC wouldnt stay locked, it would jump up and down in revs all the way upto about 90 k's an hour and then be fine. I took it to several specialists, one who spent time on the valve body, and they all said it was just the TC failing and to replace it as the fluid was still good. So at 250K I replaced the TC. Car drove fine for about 8K then the hunting started again, every 20 seconds or so it would jump. It reached a point where it was not shuddering, but hunting up and down about once every 2 seconds. Again as stated by several in this thread the line pressure was falling and it would loose lockup. Then I lost 5th gear all together.

My auto box was completely rebuilt and now it behaves again just as it did when I first bought it.

On reading Harlie's posts I also had the TC stall RPM lowered, and its great, and I have him and this forum to thank.

I would not buy a car with a reco box from AB automatics in it. Easy to tell, the trans will have their sticker on the side. I will not say anything more publicly.

But when test driving a car, its not just a shudder, but check if it jumps a few hundred RPM every now and again just coasting at 45-80 K an hour on flat roads.

Then again the V8 to me is much nicer to drive, cheaper to buy, but like others, I have heard many stories about cooling issues. If driven kindly they can be very good on the juice, but like all V8's if you drive them with a bit of poke they can be really thirsty as well!

[tebone]

I have a late 02 l322 V8 Vogue 220km. I haven't had any problems I've done 60k's since 2011. Great car. Long term fuel economy is 14.5ltrs/100km's. One thing I have done is installed transmission coolers and service the tranny regularly and the motor every 10k
I was thinking updating but got offered $10K trade in. I will be keeping as parts alot cheaper now.
P.s If you are looking at a V8 make sure the engine has been serviced regularly. If not the oiling system to the timing chain can block causing it to wear out the chain and guides quicker.

[Benzinvernichter]

After two P38 I just my first L322.
The only Diesel for me would be the V8 but like the SC its out of my price range for now. But then, petrol is cheaper than diesel in Switzerland.
The advice I got from my mechanic was to go for the Jaguar engine. The BMW power plant is not continued and has some high milage issues that are very expensive to repair. The 2006-on Jaguar is the base for all the newer engines including the SC variants and sorted out some of the problems. Against my first thoughts, the 4.2 SC is more reliable in a mechanical way as it doesn't need all the variable stuff like VANS etc.
I choose the 4.4 as the 4.2 SC were overpriced or in really bat shape.
Greetings from Switzerland
Peter

[Homestar]

After two P38 I just my first L322.
The only Diesel for me would be the V8 but like the SC its out of my price range for now. But then, petrol is cheaper than diesel in Switzerland.
The advice I got from my mechanic was to go for the Jaguar engine. The BMW power plant is not continued and has some high milage issues that are very expensive to repair. The 2006-on Jaguar is the base for all the newer engines including the SC variants and sorted out some of the problems. Against my first thoughts, the 4.2 SC is more reliable in a mechanical way as it doesn't need all the variable stuff like VANS etc.
I choose the 4.4 as the 4.2 SC were overpriced or in really bat shape.
Greetings from Switzerland
Peter

Hi there, did you mechanic elaborate on this at all? Reason I ask is that I have seen high KM examples that still go as well as the day they were made. BMW still build a variant of this engine and most of it is still the same as these earlier engines. I'm sure there are many more examples of these engines in your area, so wondering what sort of issues they are having.

Cheers - Gav.:)

[harlie]

yeah, the 4.4bmw engine was not continued in the L322, but it lived on in many other BMWs - there is a hell of a lot more bmw v8s running around in the world than there is Jag v8s. This has got to be the first time I've seen someone say buy a Jag instead of a BMW:p.

I'd buy a jag, just love that XF, and I could say to my wife, "lets take the jag"

[rar110]

I'm looking for some info from the Range Rover L322 gurus.

After reading Greg Milner's thread about shock failure, I was wondering if the TD6 L322s had standard type front and rear shocks? If remote touring I would like the option to fit a similar shock from another car like a Patrol, Cruiser etc until the correct spec shock can be fitted. Also, is the front and rear shock outside or separate from the air bag suspension (i.e. can the shock be changed without removing the airbag suspension)?

Does TR make a D3 TDV6 a better off road vehicle compared to TD6 L322 with TC?

Overall how do owners find a L322 as a touring vehicle? I will probably fit a roof rack with a RTT. I think I would need to put the spare on the roof rack so I could fit a draw system in the back.

How is the TD6 L322 for electrical gremlins? It seems to fit together well.

Apart from LR maybe doing a better job on the GM 5 speed transmission, is there much difference between a 2002 and 2004/5 TD6 L322? Also, there doesn't seem to be a 04MY Range Rover, is that correct? It seems to jump from 03MY to 05MY. Should I expect reliability from a low km 2002 TD6 L322 with a good service history, or am I being unrealistic given its age?

Thanks.

[chaybra]

I'm looking for some info from the Range Rover L322 gurus.

After reading Greg Milner's thread about shock failure, I was wondering if the TD6 L322s had standard type front and rear shocks? If remote touring I would like the option to fit a similar shock from another car like a Patrol, Cruiser etc until the correct spec shock can be fitted. Also, is the front and rear shock outside or separate from the air bag suspension (i.e. can the shock be changed without removing the airbag suspension)?

Does TR make a D3 TDV6 a better off road vehicle compared to TD6 L322 with TC?

Overall how do owners find a L322 as a touring vehicle? I will probably fit a roof rack with a RTT. I think I would need to put the spare on the roof rack so I could fit a draw system in the back.

How is the TD6 L322 for electrical gremlins? It seems to fit together well.

Apart from LR maybe doing a better job on the GM 5 speed transmission, is there much difference between a 2002 and 2004/5 TD6 L322? Also, there doesn't seem to be a 04MY Range Rover, is that correct? It seems to jump from 03MY to 05MY. Should I expect reliability from a low km 2002 TD6 L322 with a good service history, or am I being unrealistic given its age?

Thanks.

As far as the shocks go....carry a spare for your vehicle. the front is a mcpherson type coilover(air bag sleeve) the rear is just an airbag bellow with separate shocks. The fronts you can only get as a complete assembly (Bags and all) and if you want one in Aus it will cost you around $1g for one, but with time up your sleeve you can get a set in from the uk for under that (What Im going thru now). The good news is, I have managed to get it sitting level at normal height with one blown bag and could still drive it the 300km home.

as for electrical gremlins, I havent come across any yet. Not saying there isnt any but I wash my L322 quite vigorously with the pressure washer and have done a river crossing or 2 at bonnet height and haven't had an issue.

[harlie]

You cannot fit shocks for a cruiser ect unless you get rid of the air suspension. By nature, air springs are very different to coil, mainly, there is no resistance on the expansion stroke, An air spring will continue to expand at the same rate until something prevents it (car weight, shock resistance or end stop) or it blows off the piston. As interest, Scania actually had chains on the drive axles a while ago to limit the travel… Shocks to go with air springs are valved completely differently to those for steel springs – IMO air systems are harder on shocks. The shock will not suffer as much with 18inch wheels, but if you are really worried, go buy a Nissan and complain when its shock fails… I worked with heavy vehicle air system during the 90s (electronic system development for the early fully electronic systems on trucks), there is a lot of air suspension covering a lot of bad roads in this country. Is it interesting that Greg’s story contains 1 failure, I’m thinking if there is an inherit issue, all would have failed. Admittedly the fronts are not easy to carry as spares, and a bit inconvenient to change

The rear shock is beside the bag, front is a strut assembly with the airbag, so the entire airspring/strut has to be changed, they are not light or small and L is different to R.

One of the complaints from some owners of old rangies is how crappy they ride – a lot of these then discover they have shocks for coils, as most don’t realise there is 2 versions available and the coil is usually sold through discount crap auto suppliers.

Does TR make it better – no. My brother has a D3, it is no better off road, not as nice on road and has a lot less space. All the functionality of TR is available in the early L322 it just has a couple of separate switches (and your brain) instead of a single dial. TR will also be much harder to fix if it plays up (just ask poor old drivesafe).

I love it as a touring car, simply the most comfortable vehicle to eat the miles away, more comfortable than the D3, much more comfortable than mate’s 2010 toureg. It is however not without it downsides. For example I hate the split tail gate, it is simply stupid – I’m 6’3 and I can’t reach items that are against the seat (when the tailgate is down you need to reach over it aswell as the length of the loadspace., my wife needs a ladder. However, look under the bonnet of a TD6, when is the last time you saw an engine bay with so much space - I can actually work in there...

Only electrical gremlin I’ve had is a short in the speaker for the front parking sensors (it was faintly squarking), which was an easy fix. You will need a diagnostic kit if you plan on DIY repairs/servicing.

Yes there officially was no MY04, only minor differences between the 02 and 05 – maybe some updates in the box which is supposed to be about march ’04 – not convinced it will save it though. However, 06 (with newer headlights) received a few updates.

Like all older cars, if it is looked after and YOU know what you are dealing with, I can't see a problem. I'm keeping mine for many years to come.

Drawers. I'm thinking about building something that can be removed relatively easy. I've not had to get the spare tyre out for either car in nearly 18 years, so I can't see it being a regular event and I'm happy to have it where it is, even if it is a bit of a pain to get too. When we do a trip like Birdsville, I carry a 2nd spare on the camper, I’ve not need to access the 1st under the floor yet. When I do it will be a pain, but it is there to get me to the next town. You need to be able to access the compressor if needed anyway – I’m interested to see what you come up with.

[rar110]

thanks very much for the detailed replies. That clarifies a few points.

So it sounds like for something like a Gibb River Rd trip in even an early L322 I would need to carry two rear shocks as spares as different part numbers.

For a long trip I would take out the spare and keep it on the roof. I had thoughts of a wide draw which when removed would allow access to the wheel well. I might need to make a different cargo area floor with a removable hatch The draw system would be engel on the left, water jerry slide out draw in the middle (2 or 3 jerries), and stack of two draws to the right for cooking utensils and food. Ive read the depth of the cargo space is 1080mm (at floor), which will only allow 2 jerries.

[Hoges]

yeah, the 4.4bmw engine was not continued in the L322, but it lived on in many other BMWs - there is a hell of a lot more bmw v8s running around in the world than there is Jag v8s. This has got to be the first time I've seen someone say buy a Jag instead of a BMW:p.

I'd buy a jag, just love that XF, and I could say to my wife, "lets take the jag"

An acquaintance with 30+ yrs. as a test engineer etc. commented to me recently that the German govt. policy on "recycling" has had an adverse impact on the availability of BMW (and I suppose Mercedes and Audi) parts for engines over 10 yrs old.. spares inventories were significantly reduced and genuine parts such as valves, bearing shells, pistons etc were/are difficult to acquire. Apparently the policy is to encourage people to buy "new" and recycle rather than repair!
I don't know how true this is.

[Lof]

Hi all,

A bit of a bump here but I'd thought I'd give you an update.

I ended up bargaining with a dealer for a supercharged Jag V8 2005/6 model with limited warranty. Lost out at the last minute after a long negotiation trying to get value for my beater of a trade-in. I'm told it sold for $38k drive away.

Eventually settled for a 2003 BMW V8 from a private seller with RWC, low km and a few bonuses for $26k. Brought her home this arvo and in retrospect I'm glad I went for the older model. Seems like a lot of car for the money - hopefully she's good to me.

Cheers