TD5 worse than I hoped

[Alex 110]

OK, my disco's been off the road more than its been on in the last 6 months, & I finally got a LR specialist to check it over.

Prognosis - new motor or new car (not much to choose between the 2 regarding cost):censored::censored:

I'm thinking I should maybe go back to a 300tdi & wreck this one for parts. Financially in the longer term this is the best option, but at the cost of short term pain.

So unless someone wants to buy a 2000 D2 auto with a knackered engine for enough for me to replace it I may have to look elsewhere:censored:

[rovercare]

TD5 D2's are inherently unreliable money pits, I have worked on a few and know many, many more that tip money into them, great when going but a list of common faults longer than a sacred scroll

Yes, they are that bad, no I don't wanna hear its about "maintenance" from TD5 fans, I would never own one and have suggested to many people if they wanted a D2 to buy a 4l over a TD5, many have chastisced me in the first short duration of ownership....till the problems begin.....only one friend I know has a running TD5(D2a, rebuilt motor, gearbox full of Ashcroft diff stuff, so plenty of failures), all the others (yes all) either sit in dead heaps or have been sold and replaced

2 vehicles I intend to never own

anything TD5 or ZD30

I suggest cutting losses and getting something....anything else

[Alex 110]

Hindsight is a wonderful thing. If I'd known 3 years ago what I know now it would either have been an older 300tdi or a v8. Right now however a vx commodore is looking good, but that means a lot fewer camping trips & none to the places I like to go

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[wardy1]

TD5 D2's are inherently unreliable money pits, I have worked on a few and know many, many more that tip money into them, great when going but a list of common faults longer than a sacred scroll

Yes, they are that bad, no I don't wanna hear its about "maintenance" from TD5 fans, I would never own one and have suggested to many people if they wanted a D2 to buy a 4l over a TD5, many have chastisced me in the first short duration of ownership....till the problems begin.....only one friend I know has a running TD5(D2a, rebuilt motor, gearbox full of Ashcroft diff stuff, so plenty of failures), all the others (yes all) either sit in dead heaps or have been sold and replaced

2 vehicles I intend to never own

anything TD5 or ZD30

I suggest cutting losses and getting something....anything else

MAN what an incredible generalisation THAT is! I have a Td5 and it's bloody brilliant and this is the second one I've owned.

I'm not even going to spend the time anymore than to say that posts like this are just plain rubbish!

[steveG]

Reaching for popcorn ;)

[Pippin]

wardy1 is spot on! Mine is at 400K and still runs great. I've put on a new head and the usual other things from time to time but no complaints. Don't give up.

Nick

[robbotd5]

Rovercare
You sound just like my Toyota loving mate who's a mechanic. Well matey, I disagree with you totally. All problems with this engine are well known and easily fixed. Love mine. And I've had it from new. Sure, it's had it's issues and it's cost me a fair bit, (mostly performance mods) but it's a very satisfying vehicle to own and drive. Whether I'm going down to the shops or hitching up the van to tour a state the smile is always there. And if something does go wrong, I'll have a fair idea what it is and how to fix it. Even the youngest examples of the Td5 are now 10 years old now.
Regards
Robbo

[Disco Muppet]

That's funny, We've got both a Td5 and a ZD30 :D
Anyone who denies the Td5 has problems is an idiot.
Yes, maintenance can sort some of them, sometimes it's just the Td5 gods striking you down for ****s and gigs.
However in 250k my Td5 D2 has had
1 X harmonic balancer
2 X driveshafts
1 X visous coupling
1 X alternator.
All the rest are basic service/wear and tear items.
Yes, it's probably going to throw something expensive at me just for saying it, but do I really care?

That's not a bad run imho.
Dads ZD30 hasn't had a single issue, except the speakers on one side stopped working the other day.
I can live with that.

[rovercare]

Nothing wrong with liking your vehicle if that's what you choose, plenty of ZD30 owners defend them to the death aswell

I've worked on the odd rover or 2:)

Good vehicle, when going, just be sure to do a few things

Replace timing chain tensioner, plenty dead motors from these failing
Head will move at some stage, but you know, heads are just service items:D
Exhaust manifold, warps/cracks
Fuel cooler, if it starts leaking be sure to fix if manual, cause diesel kills clutches
Check oil pump bolt before it falls out
Dual mass flywheel
Injector loom, serviceable part too?

Just a quick few from the top of my head

Owning and loving your vehicle is fine and they are a great drive, trouble free they are far from though, look at defensive posts as a quick example, showing that, head? cost me a lot so far? that is my point

Serviceable items do not include the things in the list above they are repairs, some major

Yes, easy fixed for some, but for those without the mechanical nouse, they are an expensive vehicle to own and run, especially as they get older

[rovercare]

Anyone who denies the Td5 has problems is an idiot.
.

I would not say that, rose colored glasses maybe:D

But watch the anger flow for my brutally honest opinion:)

[Disco Muppet]

I would not say that, rose colored glasses maybe:D

But watch the anger flow for my brutally honest opinion:)

Glasses gone pink from leaking OAT? :D

Methinks it's fairly typical land rover.
Great idea, poor execution.

[rovercare]

Glasses gone pink from leaking OAT? :D

Methinks it's fairly typical land rover.
Great idea, poor execution.

Yea, I hang **** on the poms here about great engineer, poor execution....I mean they sent the convicts to aus and stayed in the UK themselves:D

Good jigger when they are going, but they should of been issued with a bag of cable ties when purchased, the abomination they call hose routing in the engine bay on a TD5 D2:eek: rubbing hoses is extremely common failure aswell, my engine conversions are neater

Good HP and economy...when not in limp...just high maintenance and not for those that expect vehicles to just work

[slug_burner]

Td5 does not use OAT uses the green stuff, no pink tinted glasses here.

I have both Td5 and 300Tdi. 300 Tdi had to be picked up on a tilt tray due to R380/LT230 failure, Td5 has never left me stranded due to automotive failures. R380 has been rebuilt twice. I'd say per km more money has gone into the 300 Tdi than the Td5.

Yes Td5 has leaked diesel from fuel cooler, from fuel tank plastic pipes also. Problems? Yes of course it would have been better if these things had not gone wrong. No oil pump bolt, head gasket or exhaust manifold studs snapped. Hope it stays that way.

I still have both vehicles and I expect to have to do the ZF auto in the Td5 at some stage but that is just the cost of owning a car that has done more than 200k and is over 10 years old. I still get a lot of enjoyment from it and don't feel hard done by.

We all have different expectations and different tolerance for what is an acceptable failure and the cost you should pay to get them fixed. Engine replacements are not what I would expect. What happened to your engine Alex?

[Disco Muppet]

In the context of a Td5 D2, it came from the factory with OAT mate ;)
However this isn't the time or place for another Glycol VS OAT ****ing match.
Alex, do whatever you think is best :)

[Tombie]

Your TD5s haven't leaked fuel from the coolers - from the regulator maybe :)

I've had V8s and TD5s and the TD5 has been an easy engine to work on and relatively cheap too...

The V8s soaked up just as much and then you add fuel costs!!!

[rovercare]

Yes Td5 has leaked diesel from fuel cooler, from fuel tank plastic pipes also. Problems? Yes of course it would have been better if these things had not gone wrong. No oil pump bolt, head gasket or exhaust manifold studs snapped. Hope it stays that way.


I'd strongly suggest checking the oil pump bolt, I've seen them loose at 200+ thousand kays, just waiting to fall out:eek:

[XHPBT1]

Owed mine since new and I drive it like I stole it !!!! 4000rpm every gear it's done now 302,000km still got original auto gear box and engine only had to do the oil pump bolt.... And just yesterday the original air bag started to leak... I do all my own maintenance and auto gets new oil every 10,000km... Dad has the 300tdi and I have td5 which has less problems haha I drive this thing harder and fast than any of my mates that have toyotas etc...
They can't keep up on the dirt 😂

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[landy]

Rovercares made me paranoid now! I want to strip the front of the engine and replace the tensioner and replace the pump bolt........no, seriously, I do!

I think by the very nature of the mechanicing game you see a lot of bad cars. After all, if they are going well you don't get them fixed do you?
I've worked for Ford, Holden, Vauxhall, Jag-Rover, Austin-Rover/Rover, Peugeot and Volvo. And every single one had their horror stories. Some worse than others. The fact also is that these are no longer new cars. Of course they come with other maintenance issues but so do they all at that age. The good news is that if you are able to Weald your own spanners parts are quite cheap if you hunt around the web. Unfortunately if you can't you are likely to be circled by sharks!

But forewarned is forearmed as they say.

Regards

[Alex 110]

I am quite handy with spanners... I've stripped& rebuilt series landys several times. But this has gone beyond spanners. The engine is damaged beyond reasonable repair so I either get a new engine or get another car & part this one out to cover my costs

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[sheerluck]

Alex, what's actually wrong with it?

[Alex 110]

The mechanics report says "1. Excessive blowby. 2. Excessive oil in intake system. 3. Miss in engine
Highly suspect major engine damage.
Recommend second hand engine replacement. Ensure turbo tested. Check oil quality. Clean intercooler & futbo hosrs etc. Replace radiator & cooling hoses"

Discussion of relative costs makes a replacement vehicle seem cost effective compared to a new/secondhand engine

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[schuy1]

blowby? rings, excessive oil in intake system? well yes there will be if the turbo failed........ Miss in engine? I daresay with a gutful of oil from a blown turbo that may just be possible..., none of the afore said is irreparable, can be done fairly reasonable. Highly suspect major engine damage? cool thing to say without actually looking inside............ Recommend second hand replacement engine? Well I know this mate of a mate whos parting out a TD5 he got from a bloke who was going to fix it up and he got it.........................:D Saves me some spannering on a landrover.............
But that is my thoughts only. You have the final say as to what you want done / to do.
Cheers Scott

[Blknight.aus]

The mechanics report says "1. Excessive blowby. 2. Excessive oil in intake system. 3. Miss in engine
Highly suspect major engine damage.
Recommend second hand engine replacement. Ensure turbo tested. Check oil quality. Clean intercooler & futbo hosrs etc. Replace radiator & cooling hoses"

Discussion of relative costs makes a replacement vehicle seem cost effective compared to a new/secondhand engine

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Find a better mechanic.

the miss in the engine could be as simple as the oil in the harness fault.

I highly expect that your grease monkey doesnt want the job because its not what hes familiar with and doesnt know the short cuts so isnt expecting it to be easy money work so hes making it lots of money work.

so far he hasnt listed anything I couldn't get an interested 10 year old to do and get right.


Im kind of interested how he did the blow by check.

[Alex 110]

Ultimately what it comes down to is that while I love a lot of the features of the d2 & loved this one, after the last 6 months I just want to move on. Ideally get a simpler engine that I understand & can work on better. Probably wouldn't go all the way back to the series engines, which arguably I know best, but maybe a 300tdi, early carby v8 or isuzu 4BD1

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[djam1]

The TD5 isn't a particularly complicated engine.
In my family the TD5s has been a greater success than 300 TDi in terms of reliability
They aren't perfect but I am suspicious of your mechanics diagnosis it seems pretty general

[Blknight.aus]

Ultimately what it comes down to is that while I love a lot of the features of the d2 & loved this one, after the last 6 months I just want to move on. Ideally get a simpler engine that I understand & can work on better. Probably wouldn't go all the way back to the series engines, which arguably I know best, but maybe a 300tdi, early carby v8 or isuzu 4BD1

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mate if you can do a tdi you can do a td5, once you know the foibles its actually a lot easier.

what takes longer and more effort.

valve adjustement on a td5 or tdi 300?

timing belt on a tdi or a td5

Fuel injector pump change on a td5 or a tdi300

fuel system bleed on a td5 or tdi300?

[slug_burner]

Only you can make that decision. If you want a simpler engine then that is good enough for you.

There is nothing that says you have to be an owner for life, I just don't currently foresee what is going to cause me to part with mine. It will eventually get too old but it will do me for now.

Good luck with your search for a replacement.

[sheerluck]

mate if you can do a tdi you can do a td5, once you know the foibles its actually a lot easier.

what takes longer and more effort.

valve adjustement on a td5 or tdi 300?

timing belt on a tdi or a td5

Fuel injector pump change on a td5 or a tdi300

fuel system bleed on a td5 or tdi300?

I think you forgot about fitting the spark plugs too, Dave.

[clubagreenie]

Ultimately what it comes down to is that while I love a lot of the features of the d2 & loved this one, after the last 6 months I just want to move on. Ideally get a simpler engine that I understand & can work on better. Probably wouldn't go all the way back to the series engines, which arguably I know best, but maybe a 300tdi, early carby v8 or isuzu 4BD1

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Early carb V8 will suck fuel and probably need a rebuild by now.
Isuzu goes forever but noisy (by comparison) and single application availability.
300TDI (or pretty much anything else) you're going backwards in models.

I tossed up when I bought mine between TD5 or V8 and it came down to I knew the V8 and parts are cheaper for them and there is less ongoing maintenance than a TD5. That said of course it's offset by fuel use.

Of course 2 months after I bought it the engine went so in went a 4.6. Recently due to inept mechanics who claim that you can't install a D2 thermostat the wrong way it blew head gaskets, <$300- later (apart from the niceties of renewing the cam and valvetrain) it was back on the road.

You seriously NEED to find a better mechanic, as said "Highly suspect major damage" just means if you choose to have me fix it I'm going to make sure you pay well and truly for the inconvenience of me having to work on something that isn't a falcadoore. I bet he has a "mate" who just happens to have a good second hand engine if you go back and say yes.

The 300Tdi next to a TD5, I really wouldn't say that in anyway you'd be worries about that the 300 is a simpler motor. As Blknight said anything the a 300 needs a TD5 needs. The D2 is pretty much the last "simple" Land Rover, even Defenders get beyond enthusiast level stuff these days. You get a decent sized vehicle with room for 5 real people and a decent luggage space (vs D1 with 300Tdi). Something that's comfortable by comparison and certainly not as long on the tooth as a county with an Isuzu. And going to require far less ongoing/restorative maintenance to get it up to a reasonable/capable spec by comparison to what you're used to with the D2 than a RRC/County with Carb V8 or County Isuzu.

Ultimately it's up to you but what you have now is a good vehicle you've probably already sunk some dosh into that needs something done to it. I think that everyone here believes that with the signs & symptoms it has it shouldn't be major surgery.

Lets look at the symptoms;

1. Excess blowby: Rings, maybe IF it's broken a ring it's scored a bore so a new liner (extreme case).
2. Excess oil in intake: Turbo seals? Could be (and I don't kow where it plugs in but) the blow by could be pressurising the crankcase to the point it's blowing the oil out the top and feeding it back into the system. Where exactly is the "excess oil"?
3. Miss in engine: Oil in harness, again blowby pressurising the crankcase forcing oil back up the harness to the ECU. It gets up there at the best of times, extra pressure isn't doing it any favours.

Have you plugged it into a nanocom to check faults? I really think that by comparison to getting a good diagnosis, how can he even suspect major damage without opening it up given that we can provide options that could be overcome in a weekend, you'd really be taking a bath on selling it with an engine "suspected of major damage". You'd loose at least the cost of repairs if not more.

[Alex 110]

You all seem to be under the misapprehension that the mechanic was Joe Blow from the corner garage.
He was Peter Davis from The Roving Mechanical - a landrover specialist with decades of experience (obviously only 15 years with the d2).
I trust him.

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[rovercare]

Early carb V8 will suck fuel and probably need a rebuild by now.
Isuzu goes forever but noisy (by comparison) and single application availability.
300TDI (or pretty much anything else) you're going backwards in models.

I tossed up when I bought mine between TD5 or V8 and it came down to I knew the V8 and parts are cheaper for them and there is less ongoing maintenance than a TD5. That said of course it's offset by fuel use.

Of course 2 months after I bought it the engine went so in went a 4.6. Recently due to inept mechanics who claim that you can't install a D2 thermostat the wrong way it blew head gaskets, <$300- later (apart from the niceties of renewing the cam and valvetrain) it was back on the road.

You seriously NEED to find a better mechanic, as said "Highly suspect major damage" just means if you choose to have me fix it I'm going to make sure you pay well and truly for the inconvenience of me having to work on something that isn't a falcadoore. I bet he has a "mate" who just happens to have a good second hand engine if you go back and say yes.

The 300Tdi next to a TD5, I really wouldn't say that in anyway you'd be worries about that the 300 is a simpler motor. As Blknight said anything the a 300 needs a TD5 needs. The D2 is pretty much the last "simple" Land Rover, even Defenders get beyond enthusiast level stuff these days. You get a decent sized vehicle with room for 5 real people and a decent luggage space (vs D1 with 300Tdi). Something that's comfortable by comparison and certainly not as long on the tooth as a county with an Isuzu. And going to require far less ongoing/restorative maintenance to get it up to a reasonable/capable spec by comparison to what you're used to with the D2 than a RRC/County with Carb V8 or County Isuzu.

Ultimately it's up to you but what you have now is a good vehicle you've probably already sunk some dosh into that needs something done to it. I think that everyone here believes that with the signs & symptoms it has it shouldn't be major surgery.

Lets look at the symptoms;

1. Excess blowby: Rings, maybe IF it's broken a ring it's scored a bore so a new liner (extreme case).
2. Excess oil in intake: Turbo seals? Could be (and I don't kow where it plugs in but) the blow by could be pressurising the crankcase to the point it's blowing the oil out the top and feeding it back into the system. Where exactly is the "excess oil"?
3. Miss in engine: Oil in harness, again blowby pressurising the crankcase forcing oil back up the harness to the ECU. It gets up there at the best of times, extra pressure isn't doing it any favours.

Have you plugged it into a nanocom to check faults? I really think that by comparison to getting a good diagnosis, how can he even suspect major damage without opening it up given that we can provide options that could be overcome in a weekend, you'd really be taking a bath on selling it with an engine "suspected of major damage". You'd loose at least the cost of repairs if not more.

But even if it is a scored bore, the problem is with labour so dear, its usually more economical to change over an engine with a more predictable result, labour at $100+/hr adds up very quick, so nowhere near as much mechanicing these days as changing components, as the labour soon outweighs the parts, think about it, $5000 on an engine is merely 50 hours at best, could be more like 35 hours labour, that's not a lot of time to spend **** farting about rebuilding engines, you gotta remember it takes time to source components, take components to the machinists, pick them up, assemble them etc etc

How many hours does it take to correctly diagnose? you can burn up hours easily diagnosing TD5's and their issues, who is paying the bill?

Its the reality of running a shop

[Jason789]

Hello fellow TD5 lovers, I'm having a random thoughts moment

For people to moan about a TD5 that don't own one, I think is the greatest source of amusement.

It echoes of Ford versus Holden :rocket: except it more like Holden versus Holden :wallbash:

You make your choice and deal with it.

Land Rover, making mechanics since 1948. [FishSlap]

Well I'm off to go and smell some roses.

Cheers,

Jason

[CraigH]

You all seem to be under the misapprehension that the mechanic was Joe Blow from the corner garage. He was Peter Davis from The Roving Mechanical - a landrover specialist with decades of experience (obviously only 15 years with the d2). I trust him. Sent from my GT-I9505 using AULRO mobile app He's owned a td5 and worked on heaps of them, he should know for sure.

[joel0407]

He's owned a td5 and worked on heaps of them, he should know for sure.

Except he sold the previous owner of my vehicle a EU3 map for the EU2 vehicle. After I got the Nanocom and worked out why it was a bit thirsty, he didn't want to know about it.

Happy Days.

[p38arover]

I suspect you meant "TD5 worse than I feared" rather than "TD5 worse than I hoped". :p

[Alex 110]

I suspect you meant "TD5 worse than I feared" rather than "TD5 worse than I hoped". :p

I hoped it was a minor problem, I feared it was a head gasket, it appears to be rather more.
Fear? Hope? I dunno which, but right now I'm depressed😭

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[clubagreenie]

Well given that the option is to fix or sell as is. Maybe pulling the head off and having a look inside will reveal something about the level of damage & won't really affect the resale as it'd have to come apart or out anyway.

Not a lot to loose apart from a days work.