Do I need to get a new battery?

[fourteen8]

Hi. Since yesterday only in the morning the car a bit hard to start. Looks like the battery dont have enough power to start. This morning it happened again and when I checked the baterry status is need to recharged ( black). It doesnt say need to replace (white)

Should I get a new battery? Or the altenator is not charging properly? I use the car 7 days a week. Normally only 15k oneway in weekdays and 35-40 oneway in the weekends. Thanks

[wizard1963]

Hi. Since yesterday only in the morning the car a bit hard to start. Looks like the battery dont have enough power to start. This morning it happened again and when I checked the baterry status is need to recharged ( black). It doesnt say need to replace (white)

Should I get a new battery? Or the altenator is not charging properly? I use the car 7 days a week. Normally only 15k oneway in weekdays and 35-40 oneway in the weekends. Thanks

I would go to your local battery or auto shop get them to check it. They can test battery for free. It may in fact be the alt or a fuse. How old is the battery? If the indicator is black you might want to charge it fully then get checked. Could be it's got a dead plate.

[fourteen8]

Thanks wizard1963. I will check the fuse first. Do you know where the fuse is for the battery?

[drivesafe]

Hi dearot and before you do anything, try charging the battery with a 240vac battery charger.

The problem is more likely a lack of driving time when you do drive.

Those short drives are progressively flattening your battery and if you give your battery a few good charge cycles with a battery charger, you may find there is nothing wrong with your battery.

To get the best results, charge the battery and when the charger goes into float mode, level the charger running for 8 to 10 hours, then disconnect the charger.

If you repeat this procedure every night for a week, you may find you have a near new battery.

[fourteen8]

Which battery charger that is good for it? I think I might need to buy one of these.

[drivesafe]

Hi dearot and while I sell battery chargers, they are meant for situations where there is lots of work for them.

In your case, once you give your battery a week of charge cycles, because of all your short driving, you will need to use to use it once a fortnight, to maintain the condition of your cranking battery.

All you need is a SMALL multi stage battery charger.

So go for a cheap one and see how your battery charges.

[Homestar]

Which battery charger that is good for it? I think I might need to buy one of these.

Personally I find the Ctek units to be very good. I use these at work, and at home. With infrequent use of my motorbike and some of my cars, I find having a charger sitting on them keeping them full is a god send. These units aren't the cheapest, but they work great and I've never had a failure.:)

This is a good unit for the price - I have an older version of this that hasn't quite got all the fruit this one does - http://www.ctek-chargers.com.au/ctek-mxs-50.html

[gavinwibrow]

x 2 for Bacicat - they are a great investment for anything battery connected (no pun intended)

[sheerluck]

X3. I've got the older version of the MXS25 25a model. It's been very useful at bringing dead batteries back to life.

[fourteen8]

Update: sending my daughter to ballet then 1.5 hrs later the car wouldnt start. I can only found 600cca (900a max) jumpstarter from jaycar. Do you think it will start the car??

The salesman said it should be ok. I thought I asked here first if anyone has experience with jumpstarter. Thanks.

http://m.jaycar.com.au/m_productView.asp?ID=MB3694

[NWTASD2]

Id be buying a charger before a jump-starter.

I had similar issues not long ago. Turned out to be that the white wire in back of alternator was broken so not EXCITING the alternator.

The alternator needs power to make power. In layman's terms.

I would invest in a good charger.

Put it in the car charge when you get home charge when you get to work. Until you can work out if its the battery or alternator.

You will always have a use for a charger. And in-case of emergency buy some jumper leads. Meant for 4x4s. You can always find someone to give you a jump.

No disrespect to jaycar. The sales man is also supposed to sell you something before you leave the shop..

[drivesafe]

Hi again dearot and as above.

Don’t waste your money on something you may only use once or twice.

Get a battery charger and Jaycar have cheap small ones that will easily do what you want.

As for jumper leads, they are always a good idea but again, you don’t need anything spacial. Even the cheapo Asian ones will start a truck, if used correctly.

[northiam]

My battery was suspect as it failed to turn over the td5 a few times
Checked connections and charging voltage...
Went to Battery World and Repco for testing both said it was OK
Bit the bullet and replaced the battery anyway, months later never a problem again.

[fourteen8]

Lucky my mate came and gave d2 a jumpstart. So I dont have to buy jumpstarter.

We are home now. Drop the passengers and head to repco. There is ctech mxs 7.0 instead of 5.0. I think its still good investment so I think I will get one. Thanks guys for all your help. Gus

[fourteen8]

Personally I find the Ctek units to be very good. I use these at work, and at home. With infrequent use of my motorbike and some of my cars, I find having a charger sitting on them keeping them full is a god send. These units aren't the cheapest, but they work great and I've never had a failure.:) This is a good unit for the price - I have an older version of this that hasn't quite got all the fruit this one does - http://www.ctek-chargers.com.au/ctek-mxs-50.html

Hi Bacicat. Got the ctek mxs 7.0 from repco yesterday. Its $20 more expensive than the website sent but no other option I suppose.

Anyway I charged the battery using normal mode last night. Is that fine or I should have chosen recond mode? Not much info on the manual. It is on float stage now. How long should I left on charger. I charged it last night starting approx 12pm.

And for charging daily over a week as suggested by drivesafe. Should I choose normal mode?

Thanks
Gus

[drivesafe]

Hi Gus and recond would be better but you will still recondition the battery in float mode.

If the battery has been on charge all night, then for the best results, turn the charger off and let the battery settle for 10 or so hours and the charge it for another 10 to 12 hours.

If you just leave the charger on all the time, after about 8 hours in float mode, there is no real advantage.

By letting the battery settle and then starting the charger again. The charger will start in Bulk mode and then go to float mode. This is the best way to recover and condition a battery.

[Homestar]

What he said...:D

Once you have the battery back up properly and you want to leave the vehicle for sometime, as mentioned, the unit will go into float mode after it has run a charging cycle, so you can leave it connected almost indefinitely like that.

[fourteen8]

What he said...:D

Once you have the battery back up properly and you want to leave the vehicle for sometime, as mentioned, the unit will go into float mode after it has run a charging cycle, so you can leave it connected almost indefinitely like that.

Ok I did what Bacicat and Drivesafe sugessted. This afternoon I started the car to go to work ( I used my wife's car this morning to work because etc etc). It started fine. Before I started I check the voltage is 12.80V but it was 13.65V when I just removed the carger this morning. What does this mean? Do I need a new battery or not. I will keep charging it every night for a week as suggested and see what happens.

Now, how do I check whether the alternator is still good or not?

Thanks,
Gus

[Homestar]

12.8 volts is good, but it may be showing you some residual voltage from the charger. Once you disconnect the charger, turn the headlights on for 30 seconds to wipe off any surface charge, then turn the lights off and check the battery voltage - you should have 12. something depending on the state of charge (SOC). Then, start the engine, give it a rev, then measure the battery voltage again. I would expect to see between 13.6 to 13.9 volts with the enging running.

Let us know what you find. :)

[fourteen8]

Arrived home. Let the engine running idle and I got 14.23V. Can I assume the alternator is ok?

Unfortunately I wont be able to charge the battery for a week straight as my mate needs to charge his D1 battery. Hopefully mine is ok and I will charge again when it returned.

[Homestar]

Sounds like your alternator is ok, but 14.23 seems a it high IMO from an older style unit, but that shouldn't be killing your battery.

So, let me get this straight - you bought a new charger and your mate has already borrowed it....:D. He couldn't even wait until you had finished using it - you're a good friend.:)

Can I borrow it next week....;)

[drivesafe]

Hi Gus and bacicat.

Gus, 14.23v is normal for older vehicles, and I wish it was still the norm, as it’s much better for your batteries.

Bacicat, unfortunately the headlight load test does not work with Calcium/Calcium batteries.

You can have a flat cranking battery, get a jump start and drive 5 minutes to a battery centre or auto electrician and they can do a load test and the battery will show as being good.

But the next morning, you have another flat battery.

Gus, all you can do is just wait and see if your battery keeps starting for the next week.

If it does, then the charge you gave it will be what you need to do on a regular basis, again, because of your short driving habits.

The charge you gave it, it obviously went into float mode ( 13.65v) so if it’s OK, the battery should last for at least a week.

Only time will now tell.

[fourteen8]

Sounds like your alternator is ok, but 14.23 seems a it high IMO from an older style unit, but that shouldn't be killing your battery. So, let me get this straight - you bought a new charger and your mate has already borrowed it....:D. He couldn't even wait until you had finished using it - you're a good friend.:) Can I borrow it next week....;)

His strugling to start this morning and mine seems holding the charge and I think he only needs it for a day or two. Then I can charge my battery again for a week. As drivesafe said mine should last at least a week ( I hope 😳)

Of course you can borrow it 😉

[fourteen8]

Hi Gus and bacicat. Gus, 14.23v is normal for older vehicles, and I wish it was still the norm, as it’s much better for your batteries. Bacicat, unfortunately the headlight load test does not work with Calcium/Calcium batteries. You can have a flat cranking battery, get a jump start and drive 5 minutes to a battery centre or auto electrician and they can do a load test and the battery will show as being good. But the next morning, you have another flat battery. Gus, all you can do is just wait and see if your battery keeps starting for the next week. If it does, then the charge you gave it will be what you need to do on a regular basis, again, because of your short driving habits. The charge you gave it, it obviously went into float mode ( 13.65v) so if it’s OK, the battery should last for at least a week. Only time will now tell.

When you said regular basis, how often do I have to do it? Once a month? Or until I felt the battery is strugling to start the car? Anyway I notice my fm radio reception is good now.

[drivesafe]

You will probably need to do a charge at least once a fortnight but once a week for a while, till you recondition the battery.

Another alternative, if it’s viable, is to get a small solar panel and have this sitting in the rear side window and just make sure you park that way towards the sun.

Obviously, this is only useful if you park outside during the day.

[fourteen8]

Is that ok to charge the battery while it is still connected to the car? I always disconnect first before charging. The charger manual says ok but I am not sure it is ok for D2. It would be good if it can.

[biggin]

Sounds like you could be doing with one of these:
Ctek Comfort Indicator Panel M8 1 5M | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/CTEK-Comfort-Indicator-Panel-M8-1-5m-/130977399655?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item1e7edc8367#ht_3048wt_1034)
I get the opportunity to drive my D2 rarely, so am thinking about getting one myself, as I often have a flat battery.
Just plug the charger in and leave it until next drive.:)

[fourteen8]

Hi Drivesafe. You are right the battery only last even less than a week. On friday I could see the battery weakening. After work I charged the battery (recond mode) then in the morning it was fine. I took my fam for 80km drive return. On sat night I put it on charge again (normal) and in the morning it was still at Bulk stage which made me wondered. Tonight I charge again and see what heppen tommorow morning.

What does this tell (stuck at bulk stage)?? Last week it wasnt that long to pass this stage and the manual doesnt say anything about this.

[John W]

Just my 2 cents. If your battery connections are clean and tight and if you are getting 14v with engine on but your battery does not last till morning then it IS the battery at fault. 15 km is NOT a small run and with a normal battery it will be well charged in that time. The TD5 needs a few amp to crank but it catches and starts quickly so there is no great drain on a battery under normal starting conditions. 15 km is way more than it will need to get back the charge.

By all means try the tricks already mentioned to "recondition" but if you need to put a charger on your battery more than once then you need a new battery. Don't wast your time and money on other fixes.

[John W]

Lastly you don't have any electrical drain on your battery while parked do you?

[drivesafe]

Hi dearot and if the charger is still in BULK mode this time, your battery is probably on it’s last legs and it is more than likely going to go flat by itself, in a sort period of time.

Hi John_W and 15 minutes is the absolute bear minimum drive time, “IF” the battery is in good nick and already fully charged.

In this case, dearot’s battery is not in a good state of charge, so 15 minute drives just worsen the problem.

[John W]

Hi dearot and if the charger is still in BULK mode this time, your battery is probably on it’s last legs and it is more than likely going to go flat by itself, in a sort period of time.

Hi John_W and 15 minutes is the absolute bear minimum drive time, “IF” the battery is in good nick and already fully charged.

In this case, dearot’s battery is not in a good state of charge, so 15 minute drives just worsen the problem.

I acknowledge your industry credibility but how does the maths hold up? 15 min with a modern alternator pushing 120a against probably no more than 300a but lets say 400a for 1 or 2 seconds to start the TD5. That is a ratio of about 135:1.
And my real world experience mostly doing about 7 min to and from work . My batteries never need extra charging and last the usual 4-5 years. How do you explain my observations?

[drivesafe]

Hi John and the battery is the ruling factor.

You can have a 1,000 amp alternator but if the battery is only going to draw 10 amps while recharging, time is need to charge the battery, not additional current.

If a battery is fully charged, it will use far less of it’s capacity to start a motor. A 15 minute drive is the minimum drive time.

If a battery is low, it will use much more capacity to start the same motor. You now need much more than the 15 minutes of drive time.

If a battery is fully charged but in poor condition, again, it will need to supply far more of it’s capacity to start the same motor

In Dearot’s case, he has a battery that is low and in a poor condition. He would need to drive for long periods of time, to allow the battery to get a moderate charge, or he can use a battery charger to supplement the short drive times.

[Pierre]

When you eventually decide you've had enough, go to William Adams in Boundary Rd, Laverton and spend $220 or so on a fairdinkum Caterpillar battery that won't let you down.


Check their website for case dimensions, but AFAIR it's 1000 cca and I've been using one in our D2 for 3 years. No sign of any problems at all.


HTH

Pete