Real world abilities/limitations please help.

[patsaunders]

Hi

Thanks for taking the time to check out my questions below. I am trying to decide on a new 4wd for touring and trips. After reading countless threads on this forum i still have a couple of questions that I am hoping current LR owners could help me with...

I really like the discovery, every time one drives passed me I turn my head, the layout, size and practicality of the disco has pretty much everything I'm looking for, however I am a little concerned/hesitant with the price and electronic extras (see Q's below).

The following questions are in regard to cost vs ability (value). Some have been answered previously but from the way they read the answers were relating more to slow rock crawling where as I am far more likely to be found on sand or national park tracks (I already take my 4motion Vw transporter most places 'double island etc' but the conditions have to be ideal and I have to be overly carful and I'd like to go further now!).

Q. After reading a bit I've notice people pointing to the air-suspension as the make expense over time... What are the real world cost savings over fast five years of the coil sprung vs air suspension disco? How much can I realistically look after myself or is everything done my the LR people now?

Q. From what I've read the air vs coil discos seem worlds apart and there are plenty of comparisons on here about wheel articulation, clearance etc. would it be better to compare the coil disco with other 4 coiled vehicles w/ traction control ( defender, prado, D2) for ability? Are they comparable or do you Really need TR for the disco to excell? I realize I'm asking this in a LR owners forum but if anyone has had any experience or comparisons with the prado etc if love to hear it.

Q. I've read a mixed bag of reviews regarding the disco in sand. This is where I spend most of my off-road time so I'd like to get this right. I don't have a daily commute to worry about round town handling etc so is there much difference in setting a disco S up with the clearance and tyres for beach driving as you would with other trucks? The beach issue seems to mainly come from 'DSG' what is that and is this a feature of the non TR discos?

Q. I'd love a D3 but as we're really talking about value, I don't need all the bells and whistles, hence why I'm considering the coil disco. would I be better of spending the same on a 'top' D2 that trying my luck at the bottom end of the d3 market? Or is the D2 more likely to cost more in the long run?

I realise I've probably asked a lot here but any information would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers
Pat.

[WhiteD3]

Pat, I had a D3 for 4 years and the D4 for 3 so I think I'm qualified to comment on your questions.

Q. After reading a bit I've notice people pointing to the air-suspension as the make expense over time... What are the real world cost savings over fast five years of the coil sprung vs air suspension disco? How much can I realistically look after myself or is everything done my the LR people now?

I don't see any saving either way for coil vs air. Air suspension gets a lot of comment because it is uncommon on cars and remember, you only here about the problems people have (be it this topic or some other). What I can say from experience is that in 7.5 years of air suspension Disco's I have had one problem, being a compressor bracket that I broke myself.



Q. From what I've read the air vs coil discos seem worlds apart and there are plenty of comparisons on here about wheel articulation, clearance etc. would it be better to compare the coil disco with other 4 coiled vehicles w/ traction control ( defender, prado, D2) for ability? Are they comparable or do you Really need TR for the disco to excell? I realize I'm asking this in a LR owners forum but if anyone has had any experience or comparisons with the prado etc if love to hear it.

Air gives the Disco a fantastic ride on and off road. TR enhances this even further by allowing the driver to set the suspension, brakes and throttle response to specific settings for a given terrain. You can compare the Disco to any other 4WD for ability but the standout is the ease and comfort the Disco copes with the terrain.

Q. I've read a mixed bag of reviews regarding the disco in sand. This is where I spend most of my off-road time so I'd like to get this right. I don't have a daily commute to worry about round town handling etc so is there much difference in setting a disco S up with the clearance and tyres for beach driving as you would with other trucks? The beach issue seems to mainly come from 'DSG' what is that and is this a feature of the non TR discos?


I've had the D3/D4 on Fraser each year and on Bribie and NSW beaches too. I bogged both cars once each due to driver inexperience but I recovered both myself. They are fantastic on sand and the DSC is just a button you need to remember to have pushed if on soft sand. Soft sand beach exits are really the only time it comes into play.


Q. I'd love a D3 but as we're really talking about value, I don't need all the bells and whistles, hence why I'm considering the coil disco. would I be better of spending the same on a 'top' D2 that trying my luck at the bottom end of the d3 market? Or is the D2 more likely to cost more in the long run?


Can't comment on the D2 other than to say there's a lot of them around which must mean something. The D3 has been around for a while now and has proven a reliable car; it'll also be younger than any D2 you can buy. BTW there's a lot of bells and whistles on some D2's too.

[AnD3rew]

Agree with everything white D3 has to say. Sand is probably the Disco's least, great point, but it is so brilliant at everything else it comes back to being about average on sand is my guess. Remember to turn off the DSC have your tyres at an appropriate pressure and you won't have any problems, I have driven mine in plenty of sand, including Noosa North Shore and Big Red and have never bogged it. Most people get stuck in sand because they make a mistake and not because of the ability or lack of ability of their car. It sounds like you are an experienced sand driver and I doubt you will have any dramas.

Air suspension and TR in my opinion are why you buy a D3/4 and I wouldn't bother with an S. It could cost you a bit more in repairs, compressors can go and may need replacing, and from what I have read here it can be easier to replace the whole shock and airbag unit rather than just the shock if it goes and that will cost a bit. Having said that I would suspect that unless you have a vehicle that has already been done, it won't be long before you will want to put a lift through a coiler S anyway, and that will cost a few bucks.

[rar110]

The 2008/9 MY09 D3S also has air suspension by the looks.

[Bytemrk]

Hi

Q. I'd love a D3 but as we're really talking about value, I don't need all the bells and whistles, hence why I'm considering the coil disco. would I be better of spending the same on a 'top' D2 that trying my luck at the bottom end of the d3 market? Or is the D2 more likely to cost more in the long run?


Cheers
Pat.

If you are seriously thinking of D2 instead of D3 - my suggestion, go drive one. They are a totally different vehicle from a D3 / D4.

Many 'top' D2's you will find have an airbag rear suspension anyway.

Mine does and it has been faultless until last month when 1 bag started to leak. (Original bags from factory -remember this is an 11 year old car now.)

I think however the best way of you deciding if a D2 is an option for you, is go drive both D3 and D2.

(The 2003 and 2004 update models would be your best choices for D2)

Don't forget to keep in mind the age of the vehicle.... that is one of the reasons why I am hunting around for a D4 right now.

Good luck....

[ADMIRAL]

There have been recent similar posts, and the answers are close to the same. I came from the old school live axle 4WD's, where articulation was the top dog. The D3/D4 with terrain response turns a lot of this upside down. After being ' re educated' at one of Gordon's GOE courses, the biggest single difference is the speed and because of that, the time you have. Even while completing the GOE course, we watched as ' old school' 4WD's like Prados and Patrols, bashed and crashed their way up the Mundaring powerline track. By comparison, the D3/D4's were going up effortlessly, and almost in slow motion. It really is gob smacking to drive with two wheels a half meter in the air, and still have the drive to move forward without having to use momentum to crash your way up a track.

As for the D3/D4 to D2 comparison. I have not owned one. ( D2 ) Watching D2's over the same tracks, they are very capable as they have long travel in their suspension. However, I would think the later series has a better reputation for reliability. That said, if you are mechanically inclined, I doubt there is much the members of this forum could not assist with if you have issues.

If you have the wherewithall, IMO it is a no brainer to go for a full air D4/D4.

[discotwinturbo]

Once I learnt how to drive my D4 in the sand, I realized it's an absolute weapon in sand.

And bloody excellent at everything else.

Brett....

[Dagilmo]

Others are more qualified to answer your other questions but I agree with Brett with regards to sand. Had mine out a few times (have only had it a few months) and each time more impressed. It's different to drive but so far extremely capable and out performs any of my previous cars.

[patsaunders]

Thanks so much for the amazing answers you've all been really helpful. I can't wait to find a D3 SE (or perhaps late model S) to call my own.

Thanks again!

[BobD]

As others have said there is nothing wrong with a D4 or D3 on sand as long as you turn DSC off and let your tyres down to 16 or 18 psi. I have told the story below before but for the OP's benefit I will tell it again.

I drive my D4 along a stretch of soft sandy beach near Torbay Inlet in Albany WA every day on our summer holidays each year. Last year we came across a petrol V6 D3 bogged. I don't like Discos getting a bad name by being bogged in sand so I helped him. I told him to let his tyres down to 18 (which he appeared to do) got him going using my Maxtrax and he straight away bogged again.

I had a go, drove off the Maxtrax and stopped, which greatly surprised me!. Got going again using the Maxtrax and drove all over the beach, up and down soft dunes as well and had a great time. The owner was impressed but also horrified because the engine was revving so much! It revs beautifully and keeping the revs up, it had no issues in the sand, a bit different to my 3l D4, which has much more torque and lower revs.

I gave the owner some lessons and he drove up and down the beach and sand dunes and said he had never had so much fun. I left him to it and 2 minutes later he was bogged again! We went and helped him again and this time checked the tyre pressures. He had let them down to 26psi because he thought it wouldn't make any difference going any lower and he was worried about damaging his tyres!! No wonder I had trouble when I assumed they were let down to 18psi. This time we let the tyres down to 18, unbogged him with the Maxtrax yet again, unbogged his friend's HiLux with the Maxtrax (they had both stopped facing up hill in the softest sand on the beach) and they drove off to buy some Maxtrax.

The problem was the driver, not the car! My D4 has 285 x 60 x 18 D695 tyres, which go anywhere in the softest sand as long as I let them down. When all else fails, putting the car in rock crawl mode with 16psi tyres will almost always get the car going so that you can get to a spot where you can put it back in sand mode. I parked next to the two bogged cars mentioned above and just drove off after we got them out. We often stop to help people bogged in sand and can just drive slowly around them while they dig down as soon as we try to help them and get them moving. Noone will let their tyres down and it is soooo annoying!

Bob

[cripesamighty]

After you have bought your new beastie, you should get hold of Gordon (gghaggis on this forum - Green Oval Experience Land Rover training, Range Rover modifcation (http://www.greenovalexperience.com)) who regularly runs driver training seminars (Australia wide) and off road days (selected areas). He will teach you how to get the best out of your vehicle and you won't ever look back.

[Mike_S]

After you have bought your new beastie, you should get hold of Gordon (gghaggis on this forum - Green Oval Experience Land Rover training, Range Rover modifcation (http://www.greenovalexperience.com)) who regularly runs driver training seminars (Australia wide) and off road days (selected areas). He will teach you how to get the best out of your vehicle and you won't ever look back.


^^^^^ This

Having just done my first proper trip with my RRS on the Oodnadatta track, I plan on taking part in Gordon's 'event' here in Melbourne later this year to really discover what it's capable of. We were *massively* impressed at just how comfortable it was over 700k's of dirt roads, the air suspenders are just fantastic. One couple in Marree were incredibly jealous of our magic carpet ride compared to their Land Cruiser, his back was in ruins after the Birdsville track and he couldn't believe we'd brought a "toorak tractor" to the bush :D