D3 - High-pitched whine, rear diff

[morpheus]

Hi guys,

Am posting this as a resource for anyone who finds themselves in a similar situation and is looking for information. I know I have got a lot of use and great information from this site when researching my car, and buying it so here is me trying to give something back. Apologies in advance for the long post, I can be quite verbose, and this is in no way a rant. I love my car.

About a month ago I bought my first Land Rover - a 2006 HSE TDV6 D3 - from a dealership, and after a long period of researching D3s and their known issues. The vehicle is my gateway to getting out bush with my young boys, and doing long trips back to South Australia in comfort - just not yet.

The vehicle I bought had been well looked after, and had only recently been traded for a new D4. On top of the HSE specs it has dual batteries, Logic7 sound, dual fuel tanks, electronic brake controller for trailers and a full and concise service history at a known independent LR specialist. The car had done a lot of kilometres (217k) but on first inspection, in the condition it had been brought in by the previous owner, it had been well looked after. The previous owner, who had owned it from new, had had the timing belt changed on time and had had the auto trans replaced during his ownership. He had towed a camper van though, so I had no idea how hard the vehicle had worked but the engine seemed fine, and still seems strong.

When test driving the vehicle I noted a slight high-pitched whine which came on at about 50kph and only with throttle. It would increase with acceleration and be at its loudest at about 70kph. At first I thought it might just be a sign of the vehicle's age and it did sound like drive train to me. I asked the dealer to look into this, among a few other things, but I bought the car anyway as it was a good deal and a good price.

The dealer had the car serviced, and gearbox serviced and advised me that the "noise" I had heard was the gearbox according to the mechanics. In hindsight I probably should have challenged this assumption, because it didn't sound anything like the gearbox and the whine didn't go away with the service. It sounded ominously like bearings to me. Anyway I took the vehicle, which is awesome and have rather enjoyed it so far despite the whine and even though I have not yet experienced the use of Terrain Response.

I have owned this vehicle for about a month and have put up with the whine, which increases from 50kph through to 90kph after which it quietens but develops into a high-pitched whir/shudder that sounds like a propeller. It only seems to come about with throttle and I have been very conscious to block out the tyre noise I also have (as I have 265/60/r18 Cooper at3s on). It just didn't sound right, and I reckon it was getting louder as I drove it more.

Took it back to the dealer today, as it still under warranty, and took a mechanic for a spin so that they could hear the noise themselves. Their immediate diagnosis was front diff, so left them to look at it for the day. I had an oil leak from the front too. Came back this arvo, and after a proper look at it they have advised that the rear diff is just about shot, the oil was full of very fine metal shavings; it looked grey not black! So looks like I will be getting a reconditioned rear diff.

This all makes sense given the vehicles history all and fact that it has towed a camper van for god knows how many kilometres. Perils of buying a second hand 4wd I guess.

At least I can be a bit more confident going out bush now that I have less chance of losing a diff.

I hope this is useful for anyone in a similar situation. If you hear a high-pitched whine, and it is linked to your throttle control: check your Diffs. I have read many other posts on wheel bearings but not that many on Diffs.

Thanks. Hope I haven't put anyone to sleep. :D

[morpheus]

Hi all,

Has anyone had to replace their front and rear diffs recently? If so what was the rough cost for reconditioned/new/secondhand, and fitting?

Thanks

James

[NomadicD3]

HI James,
I had the rear diff replaced about a year ago. New diff fitted was about $1800 and I'm guessing the front wouldn't be much DIFF-erent....LOL (sorry couldn't help myself)
I hope your new D3 goes well but if you ever need to know what it costs to replace something on a D3 then PM me, I have replaced just about everything on mine in the last 3 years.
They are still awesome to drive even when they are being frustratingly expensive LOL.
regards
Brian
PS- surely the stealer is sorting out the cost?? warranty?

[Epic pooh]

Out of interest Brian, was that brand new or reco ?

Not that I need one (fingers crossed) ... but you know ... never say never with an older D3 ... I am afraid to total up what I've spent on renovations/repairs/maintenance on mine in the last few years ... ugghh ... but it's still awesome ;-)

Cheers,
Mick

[NomadicD3]

HI Mick,
Yep that was a brand new diff, although it was done by an independent dealer so probably non genuine, not sure.
Perhaps we should start a competition thread "Who has spent the most on their D3?" I think there would be some staggering figures out there LOL.


Brian

[Epic pooh]

How's this for a D3 owner comment: a surprisingly reasonable price for a brand new diff fitted ... groan ... perspective ...

That would be a shocking thread ... I could list the parts but I'm not going looking for prices ... !

It's booked in tomorrow to have a large part of the exhaust replaced ... to just show how hardened I am to it when the parts guy told me "825" for the bit I need, I didn't even blink ... he then felt sorry for me and gave it to me for 720 ... oh man ... need to get some professional help I think :D

Just sing the lego song "Everything is awesome" and pay the bill is my motto !

Sorry for the thread hijack James ... btw ... why do you ask ? Did yours get done under warranty ?

[morpheus]

HI James,
I had the rear diff replaced about a year ago. New diff fitted was about $1800 and I'm guessing the front wouldn't be much DIFF-erent.
PS- surely the stealer is sorting out the cost?? warranty?

Thanks, Brian. That is good to know, and roughly what I thought. Regarding warranty: well all I can say is things are quite stupid at the moment, and my patience has been well and truly tested. I will leave it at that for now.

Yeah, a great car. I look forward to getting it back on the road, and off road!

[morpheus]

Sorry for the thread hijack James ... btw ... why do you ask ? Did yours get done under warranty ?

No worries at all! Once this is all sorted I will be glad to share the full story. Have to get it fixed first.

[RichardK]

Hi all,

Has anyone had to replace their front and rear diffs recently? If so what was the rough cost for reconditioned/new/secondhand, and fitting?

Thanks

James

I had my front diff replaced about 2 months ago with a recon diff, I had a whine which I suspected was the diff as I had the front wheel bearings replaced prior to that. In replacing the front diff they discovered that the front drive shaft needed replacing, it has a CV type joint at the diff instead of a universal joint and that was nearly destroyed.
All up the diff and drive shaft replacement cost $1400 odd

[morpheus]

Hello all,

So I picked up the car yesterday - both Diffs replaced, at their cost. No more whining diff noise. Took long enough, but I am stoked to have the car back.

So I guess I will now see how long it takes for the transfer case to die... :)

Look forward to waving at friendly D3/4/RRS drivers around Canberra.

James

[Bytemrk]

Good to see you got it back....

You can finally enjoy your new car!

[Epic pooh]

Glad to hear that got fixed up !

Mine is off for a rear diff next week ... May have jinxed myself by participating in this thread haha. 1500 brand new LR diff fitted by a dealer including 2.5hrs of diagnosis done at no charge. Happy with that !

[the_preacher1973]

Hello all,

So I picked up the car yesterday - both Diffs replaced, at their cost. No more whining diff noise. Took long enough, but I am stoked to have the car back.

So I guess I will now see how long it takes for the transfer case to die... :)

Look forward to waving at friendly D3/4/RRS drivers around Canberra.

James

Don't be so negative. Transfer case will be fine.

It's the torque converter, air compressor, front lower contorl arms, brakes, coolant system, shocks, air springs, central locking, sway bar bushes that you'll have to do next.:wasntme:

[morpheus]

Yeah, what could possibly go wrong...

Geez, it is a completely different car. So quiet, especially compared to our Ford Territory (which seems to have horrible road noise now..). Although I am starting to pick up other noises I never heard before, as they were no doubt drowned out by the diffs. I seem to have a shudder at 90 kph, which seems to dissipate after 100kph. From what I have read here this could be gearbox-related? Anyway, I will enjoy the car for a bit and take it to an independent sometime in the near future. The car has been out of my hands for too much of my short duration of ownership.

[Leigh 110]

Did they advise what has failed on your diff?
my guess would be pinion bearing. check out this link of a inside photo of D3 rear diff:
Failurehttp://www.cutawaycreations.com/IMAGES/car4/images/image8.jpg

[morpheus]

Hi, Leigh 110.

Nope. Told me that they had replaced both diffs, and gave me the keys. Whatever they did the whine and vibration is gone.

James

[morpheus]

Did they advise what has failed on your diff?
my guess would be pinion bearing. check out this link of a inside photo of D3 rear diff:
Failurehttp://www.cutawaycreations.com/IMAGES/car4/images/image8.jpg

For some reason the link won't work, but I am using a mobile..

[Leigh 110]

Seems strange that they replaced both diffs!!
If i was you I would be flushing the diff oil again after 10,000kms, if they have replaced diffs, would be interesting to see how clean the oil is.
Alot can be said for oil changes, diff oil should regularly be changed, I do it in every vehicle I own, its alot cheaper than rebuilds. :o:o

[rar110]

Yeah, what could possibly go wrong... Geez, it is a completely different car. So quiet, especially compared to our Ford Territory (which seems to have horrible road noise now..). Although I am starting to pick up other noises I never heard before, as they were no doubt drowned out by the diffs. I seem to have a shudder at 90 kph, which seems to dissipate after 100kph. From what I have read here this could be gearbox-related? Anyway, I will enjoy the car for a bit and take it to an independent sometime in the near future. The car has been out of my hands for too much of my short duration of ownership. Two new diffs is a huge plus. The shudder could just be a lose or worn gearbox mount. Sourcing an underbody noise can be really difficult, as noise seems to travel.

[Epic pooh]

The trouble with very quiet cars (from someone else's comment a while back) is that when you eliminate one set of noises it just means your ears hunt down the next one ...

Morpheus, you should drive and drive it to get familiar with what is normal and what is not. Mine has some noises that are - odd - but experience says they're normal and have been the same for 90,000km + !

Totally get your road noise comment ... :) but which is worse for wind noise (terry or disco) ? Wind noise in mine at 110+ drives me nuts sometimes (and it is completely normal from other d3/4s I've been in).

[morpheus]

I would have to say the terry, but only because it is so noisy in general compared to the D3. But we are talking about two completely different vehicles, that cost vastly different figures when new. :)

I will definitely drive around for a bit and work out what is normal - thanks.

[Epic pooh]

Enjoy :) !

I'm looking forward to joining you in having a nice quiet rear diff ... mine is starting to sound like a bag of bolts flying around somewhere in the boot area ... !

[morpheus]

That doesn't sound good!!

[catsman]

Interested to see the number of recent diff posts, is there something systemic with these diffs?

One 08 model I looked at had a new one installed, and the one I got has sealant all around it which I assume didn't come from factory like that.

[Epic pooh]

Yes, diff failure seems a trait of the vehicle. I've regarded mine as being on borrowed time for years - early models (iirc) like mine had some odd coating in the diff designed to prevent corrosion which apparently comes off and ruins the bearings. They also have a fairly small oil capacity. Mine was actually fine until sept last year and I've been going along with it until it became intolerable (to the wife actually). Mine had an oil change about 6 months prior to the noise starting. At least they're not horrifically expensive (perspective issues on my part perhaps).

Some other more expert person will hopefully come along with a more technical and accurate comment !

[unseenone]

Factory ones do have coating breakdown issues. They also self destruct due to moisture contamination. You can extend the life by changing the oils more frequently to try and keep the moisture contamination out. I generally recommend every 48k Km.

There is one outfit with some re-manufactured units in stock we sent over, as well as some rebuilding components. I am looking for a distributor & shops over there who are serious about the market.

[Epic pooh]

Yay for my new diff. Normal noise levels restored - also gratuitous shot of my shiny newish exhaust !79616 7961779618

[morpheus]

Nice.

Out of interest did they look at or replace and wheel bearings or check the tailshaft when the replaced your diff? The noise I hear now sounds like a rumbling sound and I am leaning towards the transfer case as the culprit. I would have thought that any reasonable mechanic would have checked the wheels and tailshaft after replacing a diff, let alone two. But then again...

[Epic pooh]

All my wheel bearings have been done over the last year. I wasn't sure if my noise was diff or propshaft, had varying opinions for a while about it, then (as I had 'let it develop') it was quite clear the diff was the problem - run on hoist the noise was evident.

What you describe sounds like wheel bearings. Wheel bearings can be very tight to the feel but still make an annoying sound, I have one on my garage floor that was making some sound, to inspection of all kinds it appeared fine, but taken out and spun it is clear that it was a problem.

Also, glad to be able to hear my new exhaust properly finally, so nice ... :angel:

[unseenone]

Where did you get that fitted epic pooh..

[Epic pooh]

LR dealer, I don't fit diffs and their price was (imo) reasonable. Strange place LR dealers ... an alternate universe where a fuel pump costs more than a fitted diff ... obviously they know which parts are consumable !

And to clarify one of your questions Morpheus, the xfer case is chain driven so makes a normal noticeable whining noise - I don't know what a failing one sounds like but I think that they are durable and failures are rare (?other views?). The prop shaft is well protected if your heat shield is on properly and again failures happen but are not that common. Wheel bearing noise is quite common as they age (weight and design) so I'd be starting to look there first.

[morpheus]

All my wheel bearings have been done over the last year. I wasn't sure if my noise was diff or propshaft, had varying opinions for a while about it, then (as I had 'let it develop') it was quite clear the diff was the problem - run on hoist the noise was evident.

What you describe sounds like wheel bearings. Wheel bearings can be very tight to the feel but still make an annoying sound, I have one on my garage floor that was making some sound, to inspection of all kinds it appeared fine, but taken out and spun it is clear that it was a problem.

Also, glad to be able to hear my new exhaust properly finally, so nice ... :angel:

Thanks, Epic. I will look into the wheels then. Did you put on a standard exhaust or a louder one? That V8 note must be pretty sweet, especially sans whine.

[Epic pooh]

I came very close to unleashing my inner bogan (with a us sourced magnaflow system) but got cold feet because I didn't want to upset my quiet cruising cabin ! So I had a genuine LR one fitted (and it was a lot cheaper). Sounds pretty nice, most of the sound is engine noise rather than exhaust (it's a very nice sounding motor - very different to rover or chev V8's I've had in the past).

And good luck - hope you can get that sorted out those kinds of noises drive me nuts !

Out of interest, how many km's on the vehicle and what year ?

[rar110]

Out of interest, how many km's on the vehicle and what year ?

I wondering the same thing about both your vehicles.

[Epic pooh]

Mine is March 2005 built (ie one of the first built D3s), 143,000km, owner with OCD so some of my issues are proactive fixes ... !

[morpheus]

MY2006 Update (so built in '05) HSE with 220k. The previous owner was very fussy and the car was well looked after.

[rar110]

I picked up my 110 from the mechanic this morning. Up on the hoist was a D3 HSE. Apart from being filthy, it looked in great shape. I was surprised it was an 05 with 340,000 km. Auto hadn't been done nor had timing belt. I was pretty impressed.

[morpheus]

Hi guys,

Yep - diff number four (rear e diff) was put in yesterday. I have now had two sets since I bought it earlier this year. The dealer finally agreed to put a new one in after putting in some pretty worn second hand replacements. I now have a late model second hand front diff and a new rear (with a new actuator).

The car is now quiet for the first time.... wow!!!

To put it in perspective, my folks 98 100 series petrol, which has done over 400k, was quieter!

Pretty happy this whole saga is over (touching wood).

[Epic pooh]

Good work James ! That was quite an ordeal :(

[morpheus]

Thanks Mick.

There were times where I felt I was starting to go nuts thinking it would never be resolved - the wife also threatened to sell it a few times - but I am glad I stuck to my guns. I still think that it is bloody ridiculous that it had to play out the way it did, especially after they admitted they should have put new ones in...

I can't believe the vehicle now. It is amazing. Cannot wait to get it off road now. A real bugger I couldn't make it for the recent D3/RRS weekend - It looked like fun.

James

[Epic pooh]

I too am living the life of quiet awesome new diff. Quite a difference for my car but I'd wager no where near as big a difference as you're experiencing !

Those guys suck ... One dealing with them was plenty for me ... Admire your steadfastness with them !

[Rich84]

I just replaced my diff and transfer case fluids. Transfer case fluid came out quite clean with no metal fragments. The part no. is different but I strongly suspect that it is the same as ZF Lifeguard 6 that is used in the trans. The smell, consistency and colour are all identical.

Front diff oil had a bit of metal in it - more than other diffs I've done - and about 2.5mm of metal paste formed on the magnetic drain plug for both diffs. This said they both still seem to be quiet.

Will do them again in 60K km and the transfer in another 100K km.