Snatch recoveries using ARB bullbar tow points?

[FeatherWeightDriver]

Hi brains trust,

I am about to fit a new ARB deluxe winch bar to my Defender, and the "tow" points look like they are beefed up enough to work as recovery points (at least in my bar).

What do you reckon? Are the tow points viable as a full time serious recovery point, or should I look for something directly connected to the chassis? (like the image at the end of this post)

Pros:
- 18mm of steel plating where the shackle pin loads the bar
- 2 of them to perform equalised pull
- when loaded, force is spread across more bolts than a traditional 2 bolt chassis mount recovery point
- bar is rated for winch pull (albeit not loaded the same way)

Cons:
- Not directly connected to the chassis
- bar is not rated as a recovery point, but then again none of them are...

PS: As an aside, I notice the high lift lack points do not seem to be as strong as I expected, but that should be able to be sorted by putting a plate in the jack pin recess to spread the load.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/05/1321.jpg

[Summiitt]

I've had my fully loaded 130 snatched out using the delux bar points and dragged plenty of others out using it with no issues.. I am confident because of the material strength of the bar and the number of fixing points to the vehicle..to date, no issues.

[Dougal]

What vehicle is that picture from? Defenders don't have front mounted sway-bars.

[FeatherWeightDriver]

What vehicle is that picture from? Defenders don't have front mounted sway-bars.

Well spotted ;)

I think that one was from a Prado (google images found it for me), but I have found a somewhat similar offering for a Defender.

Pros:

- Simpler
- One bracket per side, so able to do equalised recoveries
- Very solid steel bolted directly to the chassis

Cons:

- Lower down than the ARB bar recovery point (but not by too much)
- Requires one new drill hole per side in the chassis for bolts (but the same holes that the ARB bar needs anyway)

[chook73]

To eliminate your cons from the first post, it's a winch bar therefore must be engineered to a point suitable for winching loads.

The debate is normally always based around snatching, my opinion is always snatch as a last resort and always use both bar points with a bridle (run through the eye of the strap do not use a shackle) to spread the load.

Always use common sense when snatching and if the thing is bogged to the axles then come up with another solution.

[Samblers]

I had the same Q about my ARB bar a while back. Those tow points look pretty strong to me, and the bar is attached to the chassis with about 8 to 10 bolts if i recall.

Still, i fitted genuine LR jate rings (widened version), just to give myself another option. I like that the jate rings bolts are loaded in shear, whereas the bolts that hold the bullbar on would be loaded in tension.

... not that i've had to be recovered yet :cool:

[Bushy049]

Iv had arb bars on most of my 4wds over the years and used them as snatch points with no drama. My last Landcruiser wagon weighed in at over 4 ton with gear. That had 33's and a locker. So trust me when it got bogged it got really bogged. And I would use the winch as a preference but snatching off it was done many times. Tho that said I do think one time I may have stretched the bolt holes after a rather nasty snatch recovery and I had to run a spanner over the bolt as they would work loose. But my light little d1 the bar is the only recovery point on the front and used many times

Sent from my HTC_PN071 using AULRO mobile app

[Sirocco]

Those recovery points are roadsafe ones.

Im with everyone else, just use the 2 points on the bar for the odd chance you will be (Aggressively) snatch recovering. Start small and work your way up till your free ;)

Jate rings as mentioned are also good, but I think these get in the way of the 6 point mounting of the ARB bar?

G

[460cixy]

I mounted some huge rated lifting eyes to my bar mostly as good anchor for a double line pull but I have no doubt they could be used to snatch off

[Dougal]

You guys do know the only accepted recovery points are on the chassis, not the bar?

To match the rating of even a 4,500kg/10,000lb recovery hook (which will yeild permanently at 10,000lb pull) you need 2x 12mm Grade 10.9 bolts torqued to 180Nm minimum with crush tubes 25mm in diameter through the chassis.

This bolt spec (crush tubes required) will let each bolt hold 2.2 ton before joint slips.
Anything less in torque and the bolts will slip and start to ovalise the hole with each pull.

I have never seen a bull bar attached with mountings even approaching that strength.

[chook73]

You guys do know the only accepted recovery points are on the chassis, not the bar?

To match the rating of even a 4,500kg/10,000lb recovery hook (which will yeild permanently at 10,000lb pull) you need 2x 12mm Grade 10.9 bolts torqued to 180Nm minimum with crush tubes 25mm in diameter through the chassis.

This bolt spec (crush tubes required) will let each bolt hold 2.2 ton before joint slips.
Anything less in torque and the bolts will slip and start to ovalise the hole with each pull.

I have never seen a bull bar attached with mountings even approaching that strength.

So how do they withstand the forces of winching?

[Dougal]

So how do they withstand the forces of winching?

Winching is centred and the forces are lower than an angry snatch.

[FeatherWeightDriver]

Thanks for the input so far all!

I hear you re not snatching when bogged to the chassis. When out and about I carry two shovels: one for the driver (usually me) and one for the first smarty pants who laughs when I pull out the first shovel ;)

For Jate rings to work with the bar they would have to be quite a bit wider than the standard chassis to span the bar bracket on the outside and the steering guard on the inside.

Per Dougal's point, the bar attachment is complicated but I reckon stacks up.

Chassis to bracket: the 4 factory bolts in the factory holes (with crush tubes), and 4 additional M10 bolts (2 in the steering guard holes with crush tubes, 2 in new holes without crush tubes). All these are in shear.

Bracket to bar: 4 M12 bolts and 2 x M10 bolts. All these are in tension with thick SS washers on both sides.

[ARB 4X4 Accessories]

Hi guys,

To answer FeatherWeightDriver’s question specifically, no, the tow points built into our bars are not suitable for snatch recovery. These are specifically made for static towing, where forces are significantly less. Bull bar mounted tow points are not designed, engineered or rated to withstand the stresses imparted by snatching, particularly in regard to side loads, which are evident to varying degrees during a lot of snatch strap recoveries. Besides the obvious safety risk, it places significant shock loads on the bull bar and chassis mounts in ways they were not designed; the result being possible vehicle damage.

As such, we do not recommend using the tow points for any purpose other than their intended function.

A true recovery point needs to be designed and rated in conjunction with the mounting location on the vehicle, not just the point itself. The strength of a recovery point is largely irrelevant if the mounting system is insufficient.

Hopefully that clears things up.


Cheers,
David

[AndyG]

I bought an APT steering guard because of the recovery point feature built in. However i am not an Engineer and cannot say more than that.

They also advise they are designed specifically to be compatible with ARB bars