Knife sharpening

[p38arover]

A knife is a tool...

My wife was checking out my camping gear and noticed the Wenger Swibo chef's knife I had. Apparently, they are a good brand. I think it used to belong to my son.

It's a bit blunt and I don't want to ruin it so am seeking suggestions on getting it professionally sharpened.

This is it.

http://www.wengerna.com/stuff/contentmgr/files/4/7f20157609a1adc00d6d67bc46113544/image/15029_sku.png

[POD]

I've done a bit of reading on knife sharpening over the years, it is something that should be continually done by the user. It is also something that I find very frustrating as I can't seem to get the knack of doing it consistently well, sometimes I get a good edge but more often I don't. Especially frustrating as I have dabbled in making knives as a hobby! The practice of butchers with sharpening their knives is 'little and often', i.e. a quick hone before each use. There are lots of videos on Youtube and lots of different gadgets available to sharpen knives, I really don't see how you could ruin the knife as they are intended to be sharpened repeatedly in use, it just wears them down a tiny amaount each time. Worst you can do is not get it sharp, so no worse off than you already are.

[SiddersC]

They are a good brand, lots of butchers and euro chefs use the Swibo.


Get it professionally sharpened, a good sharpener will blend and polish the edge rather than leave it stepped.


The best method of continual sharpening is with a steel, but if you do not know what you are doing you will dull the edge very quickly, a good oil stone is also good but you need to know how to use it.


I am not a fan of the roller or pull through type sharpeners as they take too much material off the blade and don't get right to the heel of the knife, over time it will have a very pronounced heel and will not be good on the board.


Personally with my knives, I rarely have to re-edge them as they are constantly worked on the steel.


If you can get a steel and an old knife, practice, its not that difficult and easy to pick up.

[rangieman]

A good knife will have a shamfered edge called a V bevel , Simple to sharpen on a oil stone . The knife pictured is more a butchers knife where a steel is more commonly used to sharpen;)

[JDNSW]

Probably just as important as sharpening it is looking after it - never put it in a dishwasher, and always wash it carefully and individually - knocking against other cutlery or anything hard is a sure way to blunt it.

I was taught how to sharpen knives (and other tools) by my father sixty years ago - the main secret is to understand what you are doing rather than to learn a technique by rote.

John

[SiddersC]

Not necessarily, I personally don't like a blade with a pronounced bevel as they are often thick and heavy


There are so many variations in the bevel, once you have it sharp use whatever method you prefer, but if you want to keep it sharp don't let anyone else hand sharpen it for you, everyone's action is different.

[rangieman]

Not necessarily, I personally don't like a blade with a pronounced bevel as they are often thick and heavy


There are so many variations in the bevel, once you have it sharp use whatever method you prefer, but if you want to keep it sharp don't let anyone else hand sharpen it for you, everyone's action is different.

Its more a personal choice at the end of the day on which knife or how to sharpen , My knifes are more for skinning so i prefer the beveled edge and thickness is not a concern , I also was taught by my father the fine art of how to sharpen with a oil stone and for myself i dont find it difficult a steel is totaly different :angel:

[Geedublya]

My father was a competitive Axeman and saw sharpener and although I can get a good edge on a knife it isn't anything like what he can. I have seen him spend many hours on an axe only to bend it on a hidden knot when competing.
There is a lot of information on the www that can help you understand the process. A big problem these days is getting the right oil stones, my father tells me that the really nice Norton stones are no longer available and are much sort after by axemen.
I would suggest that you get it sharpened by a professional (talk to your butcher), follow JDs suggestions on care and then keep the edge with a steel. I use a couple of different oil stones and then the steel to maintain mine and they keep a nice edge, although they are overdue for another touch up.

[SiddersC]

I also was taught by my father the fine art of how to sharpen with a oil stone and for myself i dont find it difficult a steel is totaly different :angel:



True, a stone is ideal for the thicker bladed knives and axes and it is easy to get a good edge with one.


The knife pictured id a cooks knife and once sharp is more suited to working on a steel, but if one wasn't available a fine stone would work well, but would be a lot more time consuming for regular work - depends how often the knife is used.


As already said, storage and care is essential for blade longevity.


The steel is not hard once you know how to use it, but getting to that stage can be a frustrating exercise.

[uninformed]

I dont understand why one knife is more suited to a steel than others? regardless of thickness they will all come to a fine edge!

The key to any sharpening is CONSISTANCY of angle. Angles differ with use, knife type and personal preference, but CONSISTANCY does not.

If you watch a butcher you may be impressed with their skills on a steel, but its a different beast for a different use and result. They are cutting up against bone very often and no knife will stay sharp with this, so to them, sharp enough is important as is speed to achieve this. If you look at the their knife straight off a steel, it will have a rounded profile to its edge. It will also have more defined serrations along its length than something sharpend on a stone, but this can actually help cut (still not as good as a full grind finished or stone finish). Note all cutting steel has serrations no matter what, look at a razor blade under a microscope and the edge is damn horrible :D

[SiddersC]

Exactly right consistency is the key, which is why when you have a blade sharp using whatever method you use, stick with it and don't let anyone else sharpen the blade, they will knock the edge off with their different technique.

I guess the use of a steel is for efficiency, having to get out the stone every time your blade needs a touch up opposed to a steel would be very time consuming throughout the day.

[AndyG]

Great knife, I have 3 of the larger size say 30 cm and a small 10 cm, my favorite. I know my limitations, I use a good pull through sharpener, but gently, it's not perfect but matches my skill set.

[roverrescue]

I borrowed a mates Lansky sharpener for a play over a month or so.
I only have three blades I truly care about - The cooks knife get sharp but not truly sharpened (usually on the linisher cause its quick dirty and easy)

Anyways... I played with the Lansky and found that my eye-by-feel-by-vibe technique on an oil stone was so close to the "calibrated" Lansky angles that - well - I not gonna bother buying an angle gauge.

Consistency is definitely the key - get that any way you can and you will have an edge.
Now I am no expert - I have a mate who can razor a blade so it peels coconuts like bananas but I get by...

Oh and for general knife duties, knocking down fish/meat/stuff IME nothing beats a
Victorinox 5.6503.15

Nice blade, good re-curve and holds an edge even when whacked through bone . . . . I would happily forgo all other blades if need be for that one.

Steve

[p38arover]

I never expected a topic like this to generate such differing views! :D

I have a genuine Norton stone which I bought about 40 years ago. It is far superior at sharpening my chisels and planes than a more recent Bunnings stone.

I don't have a steel. I'm not sure I could use one. I might have to visit the local butcher to ask about getting the knife sharpened.

Thanks for all the replies.

[uninformed]

If you are going to pay someone to do it, ask how they are going to do it first. Just because you pay them doesn't mean they are going to do it right. Bench grinders or anything that will put heat into the steel are a no no.

[Ratel10mm]

You can do it easily enough on your oil stone, it's pretty much like sharpening your chisels. Just hold the blade at an angle of about 20 degrees to the face of the stone.

Some general info:

How fine you can get the edge depends on the grit (how rough the surface of your sharpening tool is).
360 grit will do very well for most purposes - certainly for a general purpose kitchen knife.
If you're push cutting (like with a chisel) then a more highly polished edge is preferable.

A traditional steel does not, technically, sharpen the edge. It straightens out any rollovers or burrs & delays the necessity for going to the stones.

Then there's your edge geometry, and type - bevel, double bevel, Scandinavian, full flat, etc. etc.

I'm by no means great at sharpening, but can easily get any of my knives sharp enough to shave arm hair off. I've even used a pocket knife to shave my face with, just to prove it can be done. All it takes is time & a little practice.
Personally I have a selection of stones, diamond 'stones', steels & a leather strop.

Basic steps of sharpening:
Coarse stone to remove relatively large amounts of metal, in the case that the edge is dinged or the geometry is hopelessly stuffed up.
Medium to fine stones to smooth out the toothy edge that the coarse stone leaves.
Strop - this knocks off the fine burr left by the medium to fine stones & polishes the edge.
Finally, back to a very few passes on a medium grit if you've over polished the edge & it's not slicing. Done that a few times, especially when using my Japanese water stone followed by a strop.
Rule of three: increase by a factor of three, the number of passes on the sharpening tool as you move up the grits.
So for 1 pass of the coarse, 3 on the medium, 9 on the fine, 27 on the strop.

Edit: If you are keen to learn to sharpen your knives freehand, the usuall recommendation is to find an old knife that you don't care about, or buy a cheap knife. Use this to practice with until you are confident to have a go with your good knives. :)

[AndyG]

A skill lost to 99% of us, methinks.

[Homestar]

Dad always used a steel, and taught me to when I was a teenager - been using one ever since. A quick run over a knife with the steel every couple of weeks (as needed) keeps them razor sharp.

It's usually SWMBO complaining she can't cut something well that makes me do it.:D

[loanrangie]

A good knife will have a shamfered edge called a V bevel , Simple to sharpen on a oil stone . The knife pictured is more a butchers knife where a steel is more commonly used to sharpen;)

Sharpen on a stone then use the steel to remove the small burrs, i would never have any of my knive's professionally sharpened as most use a bench grinder to put an edge on them :mad:.
I have a really nice diamond coated oval steel that i've had for over 20 years as well as most of my knife set that i bought as a first year apprentice back in 1985:o.

A double sided dual grit stone works well.

[p38arover]

Can I take it that some of you are chefs?

[Tank]

Can I take it that some of you are chefs?
Ron the knife you have cuts on what is known as a whisker.
The blade is originally sharpened on a stone to get the correct angles on both sides, this leaves a whisker of fine metal in the centre of these 2 ground angles.
This whisker is very sharp but breaks away after short use, that's why a butcher regularly uses his steel to get back the whisker of fine sharp steel to cut with. You will notice they use the steel on both sides of the blade, this type of sharpening is used on relatively soft metal knives, stainless steel, etc.'
A hunting or heavy skinning knife is made of much harder steel, usually Rockwell rating around 62, a good knife will have the test dent where the blade was tested for hardness. In this case the knife is usually sharpened with a gauge to hold the blade at an exact angle to the stone where it is worked a number of times (depending on condition of edge) on one side, then turned over to be worked to the same number as the other side. This is done till a whisker can be felt with the tip of your finger from both sides, when this stage is reached a sharpening strop is used to remove the whisker and finely sharpen the edge. This type of edge will hold it's sharp edge for much longer than a knife that uses the whisker to cut, a few wipes on the strop will remove the whisker and will resharpen the very fine edge. Until it needs a stone again, best stones are Arkansas stones. I have a Buck hone gauge which I use to sharpen my hunting/skinning knives, I can skin a couple of goats or pigs before the knife needs a touch up on the strop, get yours sharpened by a pro and get him to show you how to restore the whisker with a steel, best of luck, Regards Frank.

[loanrangie]

Can I take it that some of you are chefs?

I am, at least until i get qualified in something else :confused:.

Also different brands of knife are made of varying hardness of steel as Frank said above, my set is of German F dick knives which i find very hard, i have added some Trident items which seem a little softer. while i was in the UK i bought a set of Victorinox knifes and they were harder still, stayed sharp longer but harder to sharpen once the edge was lost.
I found the Tridents a good compromise between the other 2 brands.

[pannawonica]

Check out Tormek whetstone sharpeners on YouTube. What I like is the repeatable bevel angle, so you are not removing very much material with each sharpening. :D

[Chops]

Years ago on the farm, we used to do mulesing, a practice I had to learn to do. So we bought the tools, mulesing shears and knives. I also had to learn how to sharpen these, and as maybe you can imagine, its critical to do it right.

A couple of pointers from another farmer, dads experience at sharpening and away we went.
The knives are very much like a razor blade on steroids, and the shears aren't much different.

I did all my sharpening at the kitchen table with a large stone we bought, but never had a strop to use.
I always found, and still do, it easier to do one side than the other, but I generally managed to get it right. I used to spend a couple of hours doing these tools every night, and it was suprising how long each lasted before needing to be re-done.
I've watched many a bloke use a steel, and it seems no matter how hard I try, I cant seem to get it.

As others said, useing a stone takes time and patience.

[uninformed]

you can use the back of a leather belt for a strop. They are usually unfinished like the front side.

[loanrangie]

Check out Tormek whetstone sharpeners on YouTube. What I like is the repeatable bevel angle, so you are not removing very much material with each sharpening. :D

I hadnt seen these before but yesterday my brother and i were in London and American store in Melbourne and he bought one of these ceramic wheel stones that appear to work very well.

[pannawonica]

I hadnt seen these before but yesterday my brother and i were in London and American store in Melbourne and he bought one of these ceramic wheel stones that appear to work very well.
Did he get the machine and jigs to go with it ? I ordered mine after going up the club for a sufficent quantity of beer and winning the raffle.:D

[uninformed]

Did he get the machine and jigs to go with it ? I ordered mine after going up the club for a sufficent quantity of beer and winning the raffle.:D

Are you two talking about the same thing?

[dero]

Some very good advice here..as some have said , I was always told that a steel is only for finishing the edge & touching up during use . Any old double sided stone will do the job quite well for the layman . Given a little practice most people can get their knives sharp enough to do a good job . Butchers etc will need a better edge and the finer points take years of practice & better gear .Have a go yourself , you will do well enough for your own needs .

[Toxic_Avenger]

I've got a collection of 15+ folding and fixed knives, and the tools I use are as follows:
General duties- Spyderco Sharpmaker sharpening system. Easy, fast, and consistent. Image so you get the idea. Uses varying grits of ceramic stones.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/05/905.jpg

For re-profiling a bevel, or grinding out chips, snapped off tips etc, I use a KME sharpening system. I use this with diamond or ceramic stones.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/05/906.jpg

Whether you are sharpening a chisel, a pocket knife, chefs knife or a pair of scissors, you need consistency of the sharpening angle, PLUS reducing grit of the sharpening compound.
Once I've used either of the sharpening systems to get an edge, I usually finish up on a paddle strop using a green hone compound to bring the edge right up. Finish on un-treated leather and you've got a mirror polished edge on a blade that will shave, and even tree-top a hanging hair if you want it to.

There is some crazy 'super steels' out there, but if you are patient, you can get amazing sharpness on the cheapest knives- you just need to touch them up on a strop more often. I've personally given myself a straight-razor shave using a $10 opinel carbon blade. I've got shaving sharp off a 10 'hunting knife' from a dodgy camping shop.

So yeah, my 2cents. Keep sharpening dudes!