Rear diff issues

[Danjeffery]

Hey guys I have a 2010 Defender 130. Has only travelled 55,600 and the rear diff has been changed under warranty 3 times already. The car is still under warranty as it wasn't sold until 2011 some time. This is basically a family car we take camping. Not used for work. I'm now the stay at home dad with 2 kids under 3. This was my wife's car until recently when she has gone back to work. Now I use it
The diffs aren't failing but become very noisy. Usually at a tad over 100 km/h when backing off it howls in a kinda high pitched way. The first one was that noisy we had to yell at each other in the front seats just to hear one another.
Standard height, standard tyres (just changed them recently to the same size Hancook mud terrains), standard everything else except for the bolt on stuff. I'm not doing anything crazy off road as its still in standard form so no dints or scratches even.


I've had a fair battle every time I have taken it back into Land Rover for them to have a look at it. After the first diff was changed and the second became noisy, I took it back 6 times and every time was told it was the tyres! Eventually some one decided it was the transfer case that was noisy. I honestly think they changed it just for the sake of changing something. I tried to explain that I wasn't the transfer but they insisted that they're head mechanic had taken it for a drive and it was the transfer making the noise.
So it was booked back in they changed the transfer case and I took it home. Still the noise was there. Nothing different. I took it straight back.
They ordered a new rear diff. Changed that and apparently the one they changed it for was noisier than the one they took out. (I didn't drive it so I cant comment)
They ordered another diff, along with rear hubs axles bearing the lot (they come as a complete set) I took it home and it was quiet for about 3 weeks (No 4wding at all, just road driving) I rang and was told it might just be the tyres as I had just changed them to mud terrains. So I bit my tongue and put up with it for another month or so. Progressively getting noisier.
I then changed the tyres for some standard ones from another mate with a defender. Still very noisy but much more noticeable as the tyres are much quieter.
I took it back yesterday and took another guy for a drive and yep its definitely noisy.
I've had many conversations with Land Rover Australia and the service manager at the Land Rover I take it too. My understanding of what they're going to do next is PUT ANOTHER STANDARD DIFF IN IT. The last one with axles and hubs didn't even last 5,000 road km's
I don't want to have to take this back again for the same problem


I know there is a fix. But I cannot afford putting a maxi drive in the rear end nor should I have too!


Has any one else had the same issues with these?
Cheers
Dan

[Samblers]

This is basically a family car we take camping. Not used for work. I'm now the stay at home dad with 2 kids under 3. This was my wife's car until recently when she has gone back to work. Now I use it.

I cannot help you at all but, Sir, i salute you! :BigThumb:

[rangietragic]

Guy i bought my 130 off bought a 130 puma,same issues.Several trips to stealer still not fixed.After about a year traded it in on a bt50.No more diff whine but after 30000 klms needed new gearbox!:(

[uninformed]

Ask them straight up if they are just putting in the new diff without checking the set up, i.e. back lash etc?

[Danjeffery]

Ask them straight up if they are just putting in the new diff without checking the set up, i.e. back lash etc?



I have asked them this each time! Nicely too.. I'm a tradie also so I know how to deal with people usually and say and ask things nicely.
Problem with dealing with them is your not actually talking to the mechanic your talking to the service rep who basically just say what you want to hear.


My old man has a 2012 Ranger and he has had a new gear box in that also...

[Drover]

I know there is a fix. But I cannot afford putting a maxi drive in the rear end nor should I have

A maxi drive won't fix your issue, other than if you get it installed by somebody who knows what they are doing and can set up the CW&P correctly along with the backlash.

The only long term fix is the HDP38 complete diff centre from Ashcroft's, but it's exy........

[isuzutoo-eh]

Could it be a bent housing that is putting abnormal load onto the bearings or similar? Assuming (I know, dangerous) at least one of the replacement third members is within spec then to fail it must be caused by something outside the diff.

[Danjeffery]

I was meaning any of the aftermarket substitutes should fix it. The Force 9 from Ashcroft would be ideal.
I'll find out in 2 weeks what they're going to do

[Danjeffery]

Could it be a bent housing that is putting abnormal load onto the bearings or similar? Assuming (I know, dangerous) at least one of the replacement third members is within spec then to fail it must be caused by something outside the diff.

I have tried to explain that also. Apparently they have checked the housing and its ok.
The only fix I can see using Land Rover original parts is. A whole new rear diff, housing and everything. And a new rear drive shaft.
But then if its just poor diff design it'll do it again

It doesn't even have a wobble/ shudder at any speed

[Summiitt]

Can you go to another dealer? The service advisor s generally don't know anything, see if you can deal direct with the service manager as I do in Canberra. It seems unlikely that you could get 3 bung diffs, so it has to be something else..bent housing, backlash, rear diff housing geometry/setup...?
My old 2010 130 had a flogging and never a diff issue..if you have no luck I would start to put some serious pressure on land rover Australia...good luck

[uninformed]

I have tried to explain that also. Apparently they have checked the housing and its ok.
The only fix I can see using Land Rover original parts is. A whole new rear diff, housing and everything. And a new rear drive shaft.
But then if its just poor diff design it'll do it again

It doesn't even have a wobble/ shudder at any speed

While it is not the best, and LR have had the fair share of problems, mostly due to simple set up, it is doing its job in many Defenders on the road....

[PAT303]

Get the pinion height correctly set and that will fix your problem,LR just replace the sloppy original with another sloppy original. Pat

[Drover]

My diff had done 50,000k's, including the Cape and Simo and lots of towing, without an issue. Even to the day it came out it still good as new.

I only replaced it because of the reputation of the P38.

You don't need a Force9, just the new HDP38.

[Ancient Mariner]

IME a bent housing will most likely result in drive flanges working loose diff side gears and shafts wearing but no noise >proper set up with a solid pinion spacer correct pinion depth ,preload and backlash is a start.But as they say you cant make a silk purse out of a pigs ear:(

AM

[Danjeffery]

I don't NEED a force 9 but I sure would like one.
I have half tried to explain to the service reps at land rover and I keep getting the "the mechanics do all of that like they're supposed too"
I'm pretty much only dealing with the service manager as he's the boss

[rick130]

I don't NEED a force 9 but I sure would like one.
I have half tried to explain to the service reps at land rover and I keep getting the "the mechanics do all of that like they're supposed too"
I'm pretty much only dealing with the service manager as he's the boss

Except the mechanics will be just taking the complete 3rd member from spares and installing as is. No checks on backlash or pattern I'm guessing.

Frustrating........

[Danjeffery]

Except the mechanics will be just taking the complete 3rd member from spares and installing as is. No checks on backlash or pattern I'm guessing.

Frustrating........

Very frustrating

[benji]

I'd be asking for one of your old diff centers back and taking it to a diff specialist I know it's cost to you though. Then take that report to the service manager.

Other are right in that there is nothing wrong with the design of the diff (mines done 288, 000). But I think you need to find out what part of the diff is making the noise.

It could just be cheap carrier bearing that bed in deeply and create crown wheel lash and deflection.
Our (more likely) bad quality control around the crush tube that sets up the pinion pre-load. Any pinion oil leak could be a sign of this I suppose.

It shouldn't be you that is having to find this stuff out. Landrover do have procedures for this kind of thing - whereby the dealer sends the offending part back for inspection by their engineers. As it's pretty obvious no one there knows how to read a diff - maybe this is something you could ask about.

[BilboBoggles]

My 2003 TD5 (Which has the same rear diff as the PUMA) had 3 failed diffs before the last one which has done 230,000 without fault or noise. My 2009 PUMA had 3 replacement diffs, until the last one did 80,000 when I sold it. 2013 is still on it's original diff and that's only done 15,000 k.s The 6 diffs I've had failed - did so spectacularly, the first one chewed it's carrier bearings that was the only one that went very noisy.. The rest dropped cross shafts or spider gears which resulted in a god awful clunking.

Oh.. Actually I forgot - my 2013 has had a front diff fail, it lost a circlip and one of the cross shafts dropped out.

So I think it's luck of the draw as to how long they last.

But I'm not sure I care any more - I know there are better options out there - the Ashcroft is at the top of my list. So if or when my rear diff fails - upgrade time.

[n plus one]

Just fit an Ashcroft locker and get your diff lash set independently while you're at it - problem solved and truck upgraded in one foul swoop = win.

[Danjeffery]

Just fit an Ashcroft locker and get your diff lash set independently while you're at it - problem solved and truck upgraded in one foul swoop = win.

I know it equals a win but I've if the reasons we bought this was for the new car warranty so we didn't have to pay for problems like this

[n plus one]

I know it equals a win but I've if the reasons we bought this was for the new car warranty so we didn't have to pay for problems like this

I hear ya', but solving your own problems leads to a happier life which is more important (ps this is coming from an 09 Puma owner)...

At least you got a brand new t/c for nicks!

[PAT303]

I know it equals a win but I've if the reasons we bought this was for the new car warranty so we didn't have to pay for problems like this

Fit an Ashcrofts ATB,cheap upgrade that will improve your vehicle on road and off and solve all your other issue's. Pat

[lightwing]

My 09 Puma had a noisy rear diff and I replaced it with an Ashcroft HDP38 center.
That was even noisier, long story short I had my original diff center sent to a diff specialist who lapped it and set it up correctly. I think this cost about $350.
The diff specialist made the comment that the crown wheel and pinion and the bearings were all as new, not a mark anywhere. Vehicle had about 60,000k's on it at the time.
Now it runs silent and I am very happy with it, and quite prepared to just drive it and see what if anything happens.
As others have stated there are a lot of these diffs out there that perform well and give no trouble. It is easy to think the worst, as I did and spend a lot of money trying to fix something that does not necessarily need fixing.
I must add that even thought the Ashcroft diff was a problem for me, the service and attention from Dave Ashcroft was truly outstanding, he really went out of his way to see that everything was handled in a very professional and timely manner and I would not hesitate to recommend his service to anyone.

[Muddy Boots]

I'm on diff no. 4 in 2010 Puma 90. The first went at 10k; took me until 20km to get dealer to replace. They have gone at 10km intervals since. Early (until about 2011 were made in China; later supplied from Brazil) so depends when changed and what was in the system. Some were lapped in in Oz when the problem was at it's height in 2012.

[Danjeffery]

I'm on diff no. 4 in 2010 Puma 90. The first went at 10k; took me until 20km to get dealer to replace. They have gone at 10km intervals since. Early (until about 2011 were made in China; later supplied from Brazil) so depends when changed and what was in the system. Some were lapped in in Oz when the problem was at it's height in 2012.

Is it ok now or are you waiting for it to go again?

[Muddy Boots]

I'm at 66K new one only just gone in, car still at dealers with other issues so I guess ask again in 10K? The one they fitted at around 55K leaked oil on the way home! Car was just a couple of weeks from end of warranty which is why they were pushing back. I've held out although it took 6 months (after warranty expired) to get it in and the work done. My advice is be polite and reasonable, but be firm and persistent!

[rangietragic]

I don't know if its possible but can you just change to a salisbury?

[tieds]

Hi,
I've had four rear diff centres replaced on my 2011 110. Trivetts at Parramatta were as astounded as myself but this last one seems to be lasting well.
One thing I can say is that i ran the latest at no more than 80km/h for 500 km then changed the diff oil straight away, but this may have not been necessary.
The car has around 50k on the clock now and if it happens again I may go down the Ashcrofts HDP38 route, however, Les Richmond automotive in Vic. has decided to not use the HDP38 due to continuing noise problems, and is independently developing a ford based rear diff that will reduce ground clearance by 15mm, but is apparently bullet proof. I suggest getting in touch with him too for advice.
I really hope I haven't jinxed myself here. Hope this helps mate.

[PAT303]

When you blokes say they are ''gone'',what is happening,the diff going pop?. Pat

[Danjeffery]

When you blokes say they are ''gone'',what is happening,the diff going pop?. Pat

Mine are just getting very noisy

[Muddy Boots]

Tieds, Maybe Trivetts are NOT AS ASTOUNDED as they say; as my previous post 1 have had 4 replaced on my 2010 D90 in 60K kms. They are very clever at pretending your problem is unique. Guy's in the LROC Sydney talk to each other and exchange information on faults that have arisen, and we do tell Trivett's Parramatta that we talk and that usually 'slows them down' with the bluffing game they play.

PAT303; when we say they are 'gone' it is the diff only. Usually under light power/cruising, often between 60 - 80kph you hear a sort of 'singing' noise or soft rattle in the rear of the car; that's the disintegrating diff.

Hope this helps

[Danjeffery]

If there is anyone on the Gold Coast that want to hear what I'm hearing I don't mind taking you for a drive!

[ezyrama]

LOWER BEECHMONT?? I don't go that far for my holidays!!:D:D It's a wonder you can even hear the diff over the kids in the back seat.:p (and no, you cant swap diffs with me!)

[Danjeffery]

LOWER BEECHMONT?? I don't go that far for my holidays!!:D:D It's a wonder you can even hear the diff over the kids in the back seat.:p (and no, you cant swap diffs with me!)

It's debatable at time which nose is worse, the diff or the kids. The kids quieten down eventually I guess. Pity there's no warranty on them though :D
Changing the wheels over made it a definite rear diff noise and not the tyres at least

[David Hawes]

My 2012 110 has just started to get noisy in the rear end at 60,000klms. There's been plenty of off-road with a Simpson trip, 4 Fraser ISland trips and numerous local venues. Nothing hardcore off-road and I'm a mechanically sympathetic driver. When the noise started I thought it was wind noise off the new roof platform, but its progressively getting louder from about 80kph.
One fix I've heard of is fitting an ARB diff lock, anyone had any experience with this?

[n plus one]

My 2012 110 has just started to get noisy in the rear end at 60,000klms. There's been plenty of off-road with a Simpson trip, 4 Fraser ISland trips and numerous local venues. Nothing hardcore off-road and I'm a mechanically sympathetic driver. When the noise started I thought it was wind noise off the new roof platform, but its progressively getting louder from about 80kph.
One fix I've heard of is fitting an ARB diff lock, anyone had any experience with this?

Diff lock isn't a fix for a crown /pinion issue - except that fitting a locker gives you a window to do other work on the diff at the same time.

[Danjeffery]

Ok a bit of an update... After not having the car for over 2 weeks Land Rover had sent the diff to a diff shop for them to check tolerances and set it up. Turns out the diff was setup to the correct specifics and appeared to be ok.
So the diff shop changed the crown wheel and pinion and a few seals in it and set it all up. Land Rover put it back in and I picked it up Wednesday.
I've driven a little over half a tank of fuel and it's getting noisier again. Wasn't at first but is now.
I've taken it back to Land Rover and have taken one of the mechanics for a drive. He confirmed there is a noise and has advised me that they're going to try and get the engineers from Land Rover in Sydney to fly up and take it for a drive.
As mentioned about the only thing that hasn't been changed now is the diff housing. But if it was the housing wouldn't it do it at all speeds and not just a little over 100km/h?

[Gerokent]

It's debatable at time which nose is worse, the diff or the kids. The kids quieten down eventually I guess. Pity there's no warranty on them though :D



I saw some graffitti scribbled above the coin slot on a condom machine
"For refund insert baby here":Rolling:

[BilboBoggles]

I'm sure it's not going to help - but all of my defenders had 3-4 diffs (except my new 2013 one). The first was a TD5 and had three diffs within the first 40kk's the last diff has been fine and silent for the last 200,000k's.

My MY09 had 3 diffs before the last one did 80,000ks and then I traded it on my latest Defender.

That MY13 has a silent rear diff but has already had a failed front diff.

I don't care if the diff fails again - an Ashcroft upgrade will be impanted asap....


Out of the seven or more failed diffs,

- Some failed with a tooth removed from the crown wheel - I assume because the engagement heights were incorrect
- Some failed with the cross shaft pins breaking or dropping out - the latest failure was due to a missing circlip on the front diff (4 pinion).
- I've had two fail with noise and silver oil with worn out bearings - after 5,000ks!

but in each case after a few replacements they finally got one that seemed to be good.


One interesting observation - Land rover are sometimes very lazy in cleaning out the weld spatter inside the diff housing. (Pull a diff and have a feel in the housing...) I would not be surprised if some of the spatter gets blown around inside the diff - quietly chewing out the bearings and mating surfaces....

[simmo]

Guys what an inserting thread :eek:

If I haven't read it here i would never have known about that. I didn't count but collectively I think you guys talked bout the destruction of over 50 differentials, over a few years .

What concerns me, is the product QA, it shakes my faith in modern LR production. The differential has been in production and use for 100 years I think. There are common massed produce examples that have run for 400, 000 Kms. But we're talking about a modern massed produced car when the differentials can fail at 5000 to 10,000 kms. MY thoughts are if they can't make a differential, how can we trust them to make a car for us? that will cost us years salary, and our families relay on? I'd be heartbtroken if that was my newish car with the diffs failing all the time, and too frightened to drive it far from home. My be too much focus on electronic gadgets and on not enough focus on the basics, 4 wheels and a reliable drive line. :(

[Jode]

I don't know if its possible but can you just change to a salisbury?
Sorry but I must have hit an "enter" key without knowing...

As I was writing, I don't know enough about rear axles from the TD5 and later, but I doubt if you could swap out a sals axle for the P38. But if you could you'd also need to replace the rear prop shaft (or possibly get a special made up if the geometries differ).

[BilboBoggles]

Yes you can drop a Salisbury from an early TD5 Defender into a PUMA. Bolts straight in. BUT you lose a small chunk of ground clearance, and finding good Salisbury defender diffs can be hard. And with the rear prop shaft etc, you are going to spend $2-3000.

Once you get through the breaking in period on a P38 Diff, they can last very well. So I'd say it's not worth the cost to put a great big lump of iron between your rear wheels - better to spend the money on an Ashcroft upgrade. Plus you are spending a couple of grand on a brand new shiny diff with warranty, not some used axle with questionable age etc. (And the Salisbury is not without issues either. The 110 model with the thin axle tubes can be bent or suffer cracks etc.)

Regarding the quality control - Landrover build these defenders from a kit of parts. Over the years they have jobbed out the various components to various manufacturers. My observation from comments I've picked up from various Land Rover people is that they have changed diff manufacturers once or twice - and that there was chunk of diffs with very poor quality. I'm not sure the latest manufacturer of those diffs is any better - but I would guess that Land rover will make them pay for the repairs and eventually they will either fix the quality issues or pull out.

Out of all of the failed diff - none of them has broken so as to cause me to have it towed - they all just started making noise.

[Drover]

My original diff in the SVX (MY2009) was quite and smooth. I pulled it out at 50k still working perfectly. I still have wrapped up in plastic sitting in a box.

Replaced with the HDP38 Ashcroft hypoid centre with locker, for no other reason that the amount of "Dooms Day" prediction for the original centre.

The Salisbury axel need to come from the late 2002 / early 2003 TD5's as you need the ABS. They are few and you will pay for it if you can find one. During 2003 TD5's changed to the P38 axel.

[PAT303]

Guys what an inserting thread :eek:

If I haven't read it here i would never have known about that. I didn't count but collectively I think you guys talked bout the destruction of over 50 differentials, over a few years .

What concerns me, is the product QA, it shakes my faith in modern LR production. The differential has been in production and use for 100 years I think. There are common massed produce examples that have run for 400, 000 Kms. But we're talking about a modern massed produced car when the differentials can fail at 5000 to 10,000 kms. MY thoughts are if they can't make a differential, how can we trust them to make a car for us? that will cost us years salary, and our families relay on? I'd be heartbtroken if that was my newish car with the diffs failing all the time, and too frightened to drive it far from home. My be too much focus on electronic gadgets and on not enough focus on the basics, 4 wheels and a reliable drive line. :(

You only hear of the troubled ones,your Tdi had issue's from new with timing belts,shaft wear in the R380,cracked cylinder heads etc,now with it's age there's lots to go wrong,are you worried about that?. Pat

[simmo]

Good question Pat, your point about the early Tdi cam belt problems is well taken, same as the early problems with R380 shaft breaking in the transfer case. Problems that could have been identified during R&D. There's a photo I can still remember 15 years later. In one of the magazines 1/2 page, a defender being lifted onto the back of a 8x8 tray truck in the middle of the desert. ( broken input shaft/gear in TC). Cost of the transmission & TC repair 5k. Negative publicity priceless. Land Rover R&D at work. That's why I never bought a defender until I could afford a post 95 model Tdi with the the cross drilled TG gears & timing belt problem sorted etc, by 95 LR customers had done 10 years of R&D on the car.

I guess I'm complacent after a 100,000 kms of trouble free motoring, ( car total 200 K),you know the bathtub curve, i guess I'll come to the up part at the end one day. When everything starts to fails because it's old.
That's Ok I accept that, it's my choice, I drive an old cheap car, it goes with the territory, and I can afford to fix it. I don't think I could afford the repair costs on the more modern cars. I wouldn't be as accepting of failure driving a 50 or 60k car only a few years old. My impression is you need fairly big O&M budget for RR , D-3, D-4.

LR s a quality manufacturer, a big rash of differential breakages drive shaft problems etc, electrical problems, suspension problems, hurts their image and damages customer confidence. Many of them could be avoided. But all problems aside they must be doing some thing right , because they can't keep up with demand :)

[AndyG]

There has been a lot of talk elsewhere of doing an early engine oil change, say 10,000. Do you think there is merit in doing the entire driveline as well?

[PAT303]

I've done lots and lots of outback driving in LR's and I don't worry at all about breaking diffs or gearbox's or what ever,never upgraded anything either and so has many many other people who drive LR's in the bush,drive to the conditions and don't overload and no worries all else being equal.I have over serviced my TDCi,it has done some very hard driving in very hot(50+ degree) conditions so I have changed all the drive line oils four times in 90,000K's,post 200Tdi engines I always recommend 10K engine oils,Tdi/Td5/Td6 etc are very clean running engines,changing earlier is just wasting good oil. Pat

[Drover]

I change motor/box/TC and both diffs every 10,000k's.

Sometimes earlier if the service doesn't line up with a trip that could be completed with the km's that are left.

Wasting oil.....may be ?

Happy to do it.... You bet !

Failures = Zero

[rick130]

I change motor/box/TC and both diffs every 10,000k's.

Sometimes earlier if the service doesn't line up with a trip that could be completed with the km's that are left.

Wasting oil.....may be ?

Happy to do it.... You bet !

Failures = Zero

And I do the engine roughly every 10,000km if I remember (has been out to 20,000km once, and 17,500 a few times but was oil testing at the time, 10,000km is far enough in a Tdi IMO from my own testing)
R380 g/box every 20,000 (most probably done more now)
t/case about the same and diffs maybe 40,000km ?

Failures so far @ 320,000km

Zero. ;)

[Danjeffery]

Mine has only done 56,000 km's so has been serviced at least 5 times. With the run of late the diff oil has been changed 5-6 times minimum in 25,000 km's.
I haven't had any failures just getting noisy but they still shouldn't!

[PAT303]

The only thing I've dragged out is the R380 oil,it's had Redline MTF for 40K,I'll change it at 50K.Zero driveline failures in both Defenders,464K's in Tdi,90K in TDCi. Pat

[Danjeffery]

In all honesty I think it's just the poor design and manufacture of the rear diff. I don't load it up and it still becomes noisy. Legally I can carry over a tonne in the rear tray and tow 3.5 tonne. I'd hate to see how noisy it becomes if I was to do this day in day out which I should be able too!

[Drover]

My first 50k was a good mix of full long duration trip loads and towing a 2.2T Coromal Off Road van.

It was only ever used as recreational vehicle, but despite the heavy loads the rear diff never missed a beat.

With that said I take great consultation in knowing that I've got an Ashcroft in the front & rear now.

[PAT303]

In all honesty I think it's just the poor design and manufacture of the rear diff. I don't load it up and it still becomes noisy. Legally I can carry over a tonne in the rear tray and tow 3.5 tonne. I'd hate to see how noisy it becomes if I was to do this day in day out which I should be able too!

Makes you wonder why the P38 RR,fitted with the same diff never had these issue's doesn't it?. Pat

[uninformed]

And I do the engine roughly every 10,000km if I remember (has been out to 20,000km once, and 17,500 a few times but was oil testing at the time, 10,000km is far enough in a Tdi IMO from my own testing)
R380 g/box every 20,000 (most probably done more now)
t/case about the same and diffs maybe 40,000km ?

Failures so far @ 320,000km

Zero. ;)

I guess those engine bearings were just consumables :p

[uninformed]

Makes you wonder why the P38 RR,fitted with the same diff never had these issue's doesn't it?. Pat

Simple, QC. And possible material and or heat treating issues.

While it certainly has done the job in many vehicles, you can not honestly say it is a "good" design.

[PAT303]

Serg,how many diff problems do P38's have?,the answer,none.I would have liked LR to simply go back to the Rover rear in the defender,plenty of cheap easy upgrades if and when needed,but they didn't so end of story.I'm keeping my TDCi for a long time,if the diff fails it'll be replaced with the Ashcroft center. Pat

[Drover]

What is reason for using the P38 in the 110/130 and the Rover in the 90 ?

[uninformed]

Im not sure why we keep going in circles with this Pat, its pretty simple. The P38 type diff has served well in P38s and early on when it went into defenders. There for, its current rate of problems, since no major design change has been implemented is only put down to QC. We also do not know if LR have changed suppliers of internal components or lowered specs for $$ reason.

All that aside, as far as diffs go, it is not a GOOD design. You can argue all you want that since its done ok it is automatically good, but that is NOT the case from a engineers point of view.

Not sure why anyone would want LR to take a backward step as far as diffs are concerned. But when they had to go to a new rear end pushed by military reasons, they built a good housing with room for a better diff than the Rover type. They simply cheaper out and put a poor design in it.

[PAT303]

What is reason for using the P38 in the 110/130 and the Rover in the 90 ?

No idea,LR should have ditched both the sals and P38 and developed a hypoid rover,done and dusted. Pat

[benji]

I wonder if one were to put a p38 era diff in and see if it lasts.

I honestly think it's a qc issue. If they can last the lifetime of a heavier and more powerful car then the design can't be all that bad.

So its the pinion crown wheel contact that's making the noise?

Sent from my GT-I9305T using AULRO mobile app

[Drover]

No idea,LR should have ditched both the sals and P38 and developed a hypoid rover,done and dusted. Pat

And so the Ashcroft HDP38 was born.....:D

[Danjeffery]

I don't know what is causing the noise, but my latest diff has just had a new centre and new crown wheel and pinion and it's noisy again.
I've been previously told that when the changed the diffs prior they were all done as a set

[rick130]

I guess those engine bearings were just consumables :p


I thought we were just talking driveline, smart arse ! :D

The big ends show how a quality lubricant can help, I think mine is the only '98 Tdi that had the dodgy big ends and didn't do the crank !
(And I drove it for nearly twelve months with the big ends knocking away :angel:)

As Serg said, these diff failures are just poor QC, even though I'm not enamoured with the P38 design.
The Ashcroft hypoid conversion just fixes things for good.

[Danjeffery]

Does anyone know if there is/was an option for a different rear dif? Diff lock even? From Land Rover?

[isuzurover]

What is reason for using the P38 in the 110/130 and the Rover in the 90 ?

The P38 has some improvements over the rover design, and apart from the reduced pinion bearing spacing, should be stronger. This seems to have been let down by poor manufacturing and installation on the puma though.

90s (and 88's before them) always had rover front and rear diffs (same as the disco and rrc), however the LWB models (109/110/127/130) had the Salisbury diff in the rear since about 1970, as the rover was not strong enough.

The P38 was considered strong enough, lighter than the salisbury, and so the salisbury was deleted and replaced with the P38.


Does anyone know if there is/was an option for a different rear dif? Diff lock even? From Land Rover?

There is no factory upgrade available. The easiest upgrade is to install a salisbury which was used in defenders until 2002/3. Land Rover was selling off all their old stock os salisbries not long ago, but they have probably all gone now. Plenty on the 2nd hand market though.

[uninformed]

I think the P38 type rear going into 110/130 may have had something to do with UK military having problems with the Sals housing (not diff)...

[chook73]

There is no factory upgrade available. The easiest upgrade is to install a salisbury which was used in defenders until 2002/3. Land Rover was selling off all their old stock os salisbries not long ago, but they have probably all gone now. Plenty on the 2nd hand market though.

Surely now the Ashcroft HDP38 is the easiest upgrade now and gives better clearance than the sals?

[Danjeffery]

The problem with that is, Land Rover only want to use Land Rover parts. I'm still trying to actually speak to someone at Land Rover that can get something happening

[chook73]

The problem with that is, Land Rover only want to use Land Rover parts. I'm still trying to actually speak to someone at Land Rover that can get something happening

I just let LR keep replacing mine under warranty then when the warranty was over out it came and in went the ashcroft.....

[Danjeffery]

I just let LR keep replacing mine under warranty then when the warranty was over out it came and in went the ashcroft.....

I'm pretty certain that's what they're hoping I do. I'm trying to get them to actually fix the problem, I shouldn't have too

[isuzurover]

Surely now the Ashcroft HDP38 is the easiest upgrade now and gives better clearance than the sals?

I was trying to suggest an option that uses standard Landrover parts as I believed the vehicle was still under warranty.

The Ashcroft option is also good, but more expensive.

[n plus one]

So, I've been hanging off (for more than 2 years) waiting on the Ashcroft HDP38 to be sorted but I'm going to the Cape in September and I'm not going without a locker - so, for those in the know, is the HDP38 finally sorted? Or should I just get an Ashcroft locker and a few goodies (HD C&P) for the P38?

[chook73]

So, I've been hanging off (for more than 2 years) waiting on the Ashcroft HDP38 to be sorted but I'm going to the Cape in September and I'm not going without a locker - so, for those in the know, is the HDP38 finally sorted? Or should I just get an Ashcroft locker and a few goodies (HD C&P) for the P38?


Why don't you drop dave a line? Mine is awesome now and only a slight whine at 40km/h but it doesn't bother me.

[Drover]

Why don't you drop dave a line? Mine is awesome now and only a slight whine at 40km/h but it doesn't bother me.

X 2 mine was one of first off the production line and has been faultless. It does have that slight whine around that 40-50km when decelerating, but it was never enough to bother pulling it out.

[Danjeffery]

Ok so today I got some very unpleasant news from Land Rover...
My car has just came out of warranty on the 13th of August 2014. The rear diff is still noisy and 2 dealerships have looked at it and have both acknowledged that it is noisy but they aren't going to do anything about it. So they have closed the case down and basically don't care.
Was told by one of them that "it is a characteristic of the car"
Am very unimpressed!

[Aaron]

Edit - wrong thread

[n plus one]

Ok so today I got some very unpleasant news from Land Rover...
My car has just came out of warranty on the 13th of August 2014. The rear diff is still noisy and 2 dealerships have looked at it and have both acknowledged that it is noisy but they aren't going to do anything about it. So they have closed the case down and basically don't care.
Was told by one of them that "it is a characteristic of the car"
Am very unimpressed!

Perfect excuse to fit an Ashcroft centre and diff lock and be done with it for good.

[justinc]

That is unacceptable. Make some noise, LOUDLY. Woeful, Woeful product support, LRA you SHOULD BE ASHAMED!!! I know you are listening/ reading!!!

I too have replaced many p38 diffs in Puma defenders, even the rover front diffs, too. ALL at very low KM's.

IMO it is clearly down to product a failure; whether it be materials quality or QC I don't know, I just am appalled at the number of them that fail with NO provocation!! :( :(


JC

[Danjeffery]

That is unacceptable. Make some noise, LOUDLY. Woeful, Woeful product support, LRA you SHOULD BE ASHAMED!!! I know you are listening/ reading!!!

I too have replaced many p38 diffs in Puma defenders, even the rover front diffs, too. ALL at very low KM's.

IMO it is clearly down to product a failure; whether it be materials quality or QC I don't know, I just am appalled at the number of them that fail with NO provocation!! :( :(


JC

I can't even speak to any one at Land Rover that is going to get anything done. Am about to make much more noise about it.
After speaking to a Land Rover service manager, it is nearly $1000 cheaper to fit a complete maxi drive rear locker and axels than it is to fit a standard new Land Rover diff centre.

[BilboBoggles]

Across my 3 Defenders - I've had 8.. Yes 8 replacement diffs.... That's over the years 2003 to 2014, so it's not like they've had no chance to fix the basic issues.

[iClick]

My 2011 130 has a whine which has been increasing slowly over the past 18mths. At the last major service (50,000) they said the oil was badly burnt and replaced it. Noise still there.

8,000 km later and just before warranty expires, I have the car checked by an independent Land Rover specialist. His report was that the rear diff oil is discoloured and exhibits signs that something is causing wear in the gears. The front diff oil is darkened at shows signs of grease from the hubs and that the seals may be leaking grease into the diff housing.

I take the car to the local dealer and they state that the rear oil looks ok but they want to replace the front diff. The transfer case has a slight oil leak and the diff lock won't stay engaged so that's being replaced too.

I checked the rear diff oil myself and aside from it being low, it looked OK (honey coloured) I spoke to the specialist and he said I'd have to take a bigger sample and ideally from the drain plug. I'll look at doing that soon.

My concern is that they've misdiagnosed the front diff and that they're ignoring a potentially bad rear diff!

Aside from the mechanicals, I am getting a new roof as the seam running across the top is cracked and is letting water in and also the existing roof dips over the drivers door which means there isn't enough of a gap to allow roof racks to be fitted.

I also have a leak somewhere on the drivers side firewall which is proving difficult to rectify.

Add to all of this, my warranty ran out a few days ago - I've been promised that all work aside from the rear diff has been lodged and approved by LRA and will be rectified when parts come in.

[Danjeffery]

All I can say is good luck Henry. My roof also cracked (May have just been the paint cracking) and repaired but has done it again. Water still comes on the front some where (presume it's the wind screen) and that has also been previously "fixed". The EGR valve was recently replaced with a new one as it was squeeling, now thw car shutters from time to time whilst trying to maintain a certain speed (I'm not certain it's the EGR fault but have read that some where, almost feels as if fuel is being starved or running out)
Now that the car is out of warranty I get the feeling Land Rover are going to do nothing at all with any of these issues.
Ohh and my passenger rear light panel (black insert bit) keeps gettin heat effected by the exhaust and discolouring. Has been replaced before also

[BilboBoggles]

I think all Defenders since the beginning of time eventually crack their roof at that seam... It's because the body is bolted to the chassis, and as the chassis bends over bumps the only place that can absorb that is the roof panel.

Eventually they let water in, this can be slowed by forcing some mastic into the seam. Another alternative that is not as pretty is to use a flexible clear sealing tape made by 3m, need to make sure you get a genuine 3m version as that's the only one rated for outdoor use.

[voltron]

Im beggining to get a bit worried about my diff also. Starting to make a howling noise which wasn't there before, and now it is obvious but hardly offensive at the moment. I was puttting it down to maybe the tyre's and how they have worn, but I doubt it. My car has 36000km's and is 2012 110. Im about to get my 3rd set of wheel hub seals next week, so if it has developed more by then, I suppose I shall ask them to look at the diff also.:( The dealer who sold me the car has been good and has shown his concern about the potential and continuous issues. I told him I love the car but am worried about it's durability outside of warranty. If it all settles then I will be a happy camper, if not then it will probably force my hand a little about what to do about it. Cross my fingers.

[BilboBoggles]

Im beggining to get a bit worried about my diff also. Starting to make a howling noise which wasn't there before, and now it is obvious but hardly offensive at the moment. I was puttting it down to maybe the tyre's and how they have worn, but I doubt it. My car has 36000km's and is 2012 110. Im about to get my 3rd set of wheel hub seals next week, so if it has developed more by then, I suppose I shall ask them to look at the diff also.:( The dealer who sold me the car has been good and has shown his concern about the potential and continuous issues. I told him I love the car but am worried about it's durability outside of warranty. If it all settles then I will be a happy camper, if not then it will probably force my hand a little about what to do about it. Cross my fingers.

Does the noise change depending on the amount of throttle? If yes then probably diff or maybe transfer case. If not then possibly tyres. Are they MT/R's on Sawtooth alloys? (this howl after 20,000k's)

[rick130]

That is unacceptable. Make some noise, LOUDLY. Woeful, Woeful product support, LRA you SHOULD BE ASHAMED!!! I know you are listening/ reading!!!

I too have replaced many p38 diffs in Puma defenders, even the rover front diffs, too. ALL at very low KM's.

IMO it is clearly down to product a failure; whether it be materials quality or QC I don't know, I just am appalled at the number of them that fail with NO provocation!! :( :(


JC
JC, sounds like more than just a set-up problem now.
Any idea who the supplier is of CWP's now vs the Td5/Tdi era ?

[justinc]

JC, sounds like more than just a set-up problem now.
Any idea who the supplier is of CWP's now vs the Td5/Tdi era ?

No idea, but they certainly have gone backwards in QC and materials I feel.

Used to be able to run a 350HP chevvy infront of std 24 spline rover diffs (Not too hard I might add) and expect them to last longer than 30K...

JC

[PAT303]

JC, sounds like more than just a set-up problem now.
Any idea who the supplier is of CWP's now vs the Td5/Tdi era ?

Don't quote me on this but I did hear that they are made in Mexico of all places,sounds far fetched to me but a company called Visticon?? supplies the centers,an American company but they moved to Mexico to get cheaper labour.The whole set-up sounds like complete BS but it came about through Fords connection with LR,LR have to get the diffs from the USA to keep the factory going in return for motors and Gearbox's,don't hold me to any of this,like I said it sounds far fetched.The growling people are experiencing would be caused by poor teeth mesh IMHO,the more they wear unevenly the more noise and more lash,the constant shock loadings on/off throttle would not be doing the bearings any favours either. Pat

[Wildcard8]

I have just contacted my Stealer to see if i can still buy the extended warranty. You guys are all scaring me ......

I have been owning Ford Falcons and GQ Nissan Patrols so have never experienced issues like these. All 4 vehicles between 350k - 550k on the clock and just keep plodding along.

Like some say, you only hear about the bad ones but jeez ..... there are a LOT OF BAD ONES from essentially new cars with a development history longer than any car out there. Maybe just price in the Ashcrofts to the purchase price and add it to the list with the ex-box, RAI and recovery point must haves ......

:(:(:(

[PAT303]

Mate,mines been all over Oz and now has almost 100,000k's with stuff all issue's,the drive flanges are worn and I changed the battery because it dropped a cell,most likely from all the corrigations it's been on,after that amount of K's in those conditions a battery and two flanges isn't really a reason to panic. Pat

[78RRman]

Thought I'd got away with a good set but no 40k service yesterday revealed silver oil in the front and wear in the rear. Car is 18 months old now with 38k on the clock just terrible QA from Land Rover. I'll be ringing LRA to to tell them of there shoddy product but not going down the path of replacing with more rubbish. I'll be driving them until they don't work then getting LRA to collect it from where it stops. If it makes it through warranty I can just replace the diff centres with a better product. Those Ashcroft centres seem to be the most mentioned product on this thread. Is that a fix for front and rear diffs as my rear diff is letting go in a different way to the front? Not sure mechanic explained it to me but lots of words I didn't understand so didn't sink in. The visual was enough. Ill end on a positive and say the rest of the car is great loving it if I have to drop a few grand on the differentials so be it no biggie.

[n plus one]

Thought I'd got away with a good set but no 40k service yesterday revealed silver oil in the front and wear in the rear. Car is 18 months old now with 38k on the clock just terrible QA from Land Rover. I'll be ringing LRA to to tell them of there shoddy product but not going down the path of replacing with more rubbish. I'll be driving them until they don't work then getting LRA to collect it from where it stops. If it makes it through warranty I can just replace the diff centres with a better product. Those Ashcroft centres seem to be the most mentioned product on this thread. Is that a fix for front and rear diffs as my rear diff is letting go in a different way to the front? Not sure mechanic explained it to me but lots of words I didn't understand so didn't sink in. The visual was enough. Ill end on a positive and say the rest of the car is great loving it if I have to drop a few grand on the differentials so be it no biggie.

Yep, Ashcroft is an option front and rear.

[Danjeffery]

I have just contacted my Stealer to see if i can still buy the extended warranty. You guys are all scaring me ......

:(:(:(

Land Rover don't do an extended warranty on the Defenders. Mostly because of the reasons above.
To me it seems that Land Rover were happy to keep replacing the noisy diffs under warranty. Now that it's out of warranty and still noisy they don't care at all

[PAT303]

Thought I'd got away with a good set but no 40k service yesterday revealed silver oil in the front and wear in the rear. Car is 18 months old now with 38k on the clock just terrible QA from Land Rover. I'll be ringing LRA to to tell them of there shoddy product but not going down the path of replacing with more rubbish. I'll be driving them until they don't work then getting LRA to collect it from where it stops. If it makes it through warranty I can just replace the diff centres with a better product. Those Ashcroft centres seem to be the most mentioned product on this thread. Is that a fix for front and rear diffs as my rear diff is letting go in a different way to the front? Not sure mechanic explained it to me but lots of words I didn't understand so didn't sink in. The visual was enough. Ill end on a positive and say the rest of the car is great loving it if I have to drop a few grand on the differentials so be it no biggie.

Steady up there tiger,your diffs are on thier first oil change from new so there will be metal in the oil,all mechanical parts make metal when new,the reason it's important to change the oils on time at 40K,diffs and gearbox's make metal because they have teeth that are constantly coming in and out of mesh. Pat

[78RRman]

Thanks Pat I hope this is the case.

[justinc]

...Doesn't explain the movement in the crosspin it also had though Pat...:(

The issues with that particular front diff are; Backlash was more than usual, drained the oil and looking in through the filler plug you can see the crosspin and hemisphere quite clearly. I saw that the crosspin is starting to move around in the carrier, (the rolled retaining pin is also protruding out a bit too much to be fully 'in'), the oil was silvery and IMO this is where most of it has come from. Yes there is a bit of initial wear in new components but coupled with the extra backlash evident I would be checking it again at the next service.

The diff is quiet, and so is the rear one so no need to panic at this point. I didn't mean to cause a stir, just that it is starting to do what a lot of them do, so we need to monitor it. It is so minor at the moment that LRA wouldn't replace it, we are waiting until it becomes more obvious.

JC

[PAT303]

JC,why are 20 year old P38RR's getting around without these problems?,it's time for us to send LR head office a please explain. Pat

[Danjeffery]

JC,why are 20 year old P38RR's getting around without these problems?,it's time for us to send LR head office a please explain. Pat

I am trying but am not having any luck. Have spoke to LRA numerous times, to the point where I feel they are not returning me calls because of it. I seriously believe that there needs to be the next step taken with these poor quality diffs.
For every ones information LRA we're not impressed at all with my emails to Land Rover UK about how bad my treatment has been.
I still have a noisy rear diff so nothing has come of it yet.
I think that everyone with a noisy rear diff needs to make Land Rover Australia well aware of it so that something that can be done.

Land Rover have openly told me that they will and do not take 3rd party advise into account and even if I am to get a diff specialist or a land rover specialist diagnose the noise. They aren't going to do anything about it because "they're" mechanics (which have driven the car and have acknowledged that it's noisy) an they're engineers (whom haven't driven the car or even seen it) have said no there isn't anything wrong with it.
I'm at a point where I can't speak to anyone that can or is willing to do anything, feel like I am at the end of the line...

[BilboBoggles]

I'm sure it's not going to help - but all of my defenders had 3-4 diffs (except my new 2013 one). The first was a TD5 and had three diffs within the first 40kk's the last diff has been fine and silent for the last 200,000k's.

but in each case after a few replacements they finally got one that seemed to be good.
.


Bugger. That TD5 now has 250,000k's on it and looks like it's turned the oil a chunky silver colour.... Bloody Diffs.

[Loubrey]

The question in my mind is whether they went out to a different diff manufacturer (read cheaper) during the Ford years, like they did for a number of things?

My 1996 Defender 90 did 350,000km on what is essentially the same Rover diffs. I had a very hard life spending at a guess about 45% of its life in difflock, but as EP90's reasonably cheap, much more frequent oil changes than recommended.

I appreciate the P38 diff is different and possibly a bit small for a max kerb weight 110, but as Pat mentioned back in August there are similar examples running for hundreds of thousands of km without issue.

I recently broke the front diff on my 2010 Tdci through an error on my own part (discussed in separate thread) and I fitted an ARB locker purely because it was cheaper fitted that replacing it with an OEM one (I'm obviously out of warranty).

The lad who fitted it at ARB drove my car to test it afterwards and when I picked it up he told me he felt a bit too much lash on the rear diff, so he adjusted it for me as well. It's like driving a completely different car now to be honest and it might be worth getting (paying) an actual diff specialist to set it up rather than just giving advice?

Cheers,

Lou

[Danjeffery]

I had a diff specialist do my last rear diff and it made no difference. It's still noisy and getting noisier. Maxi drives are in my list when I can afford them. And as mentioned they're cheaper than fitting genuine.
The amount of back lash I get in my 130 is astounding.
Have just done 66,000kms

[Loubrey]

Dan,

Stepping completely away from your difficulty with LRA...

Have you considered a fully rebuilt Ashcroft differential? I have no affiliation with them :), but if I had the time to wait for delivery, this was going to be my first choice option. Even at 100% markup for transport you are still going to be better off and if you have a specialist willing to fit it it would be IMO certainly be the best option.

There must be a reason your diff is destroying itself and it might be alignment issues which will obviously be solved by replacing the majority of it?

Ashcroft Transmissions (http://www.ashcroft-transmissions.co.uk/differentials/p38-rr-diff.html)

Cheers,

Lou

[AndyG]

I am trying but am not having any luck. Have spoke to LRA numerous times, to the point where I feel they are not returning me calls because of it. I seriously believe that there needs to be the next step taken with these poor quality diffs.
For every ones information LRA we're not impressed at all with my emails to Land Rover UK about how bad my treatment has been.
I still have a noisy rear diff so nothing has come of it yet.
I think that everyone with a noisy rear diff needs to make Land Rover Australia well aware of it so that something that can be done.

Land Rover have openly told me that they will and do not take 3rd party advise into account and even if I am to get a diff specialist or a land rover specialist diagnose the noise. They aren't going to do anything about it because "they're" mechanics (which have driven the car and have acknowledged that it's noisy) an they're engineers (whom haven't driven the car or even seen it) have said no there isn't anything wrong with it.
I'm at a point where I can't speak to anyone that can or is willing to do anything, feel like I am at the end of the line...

Time to involve the appropriate consumer protection agency and maybe ask LRA about their views on the lemon laws.

No one represents ashcrofts in Oz that I can see, so self import or via a independent? Suggestions for Bne if any.

[Danjeffery]

Dan,

Stepping completely away from your difficulty with LRA...

Have you considered a fully rebuilt Ashcroft differential? I have no affiliation with them :), but if I had the time to wait for delivery, this was going to be my first choice option. Even at 100% markup for transport you are still going to be better off and if you have a specialist willing to fit it it would be IMO certainly be the best option.

There must be a reason your diff is destroying itself and it might be alignment issues which will obviously be solved by replacing the majority of it?

Ashcroft Transmissions (http://www.ashcroft-transmissions.co.uk/differentials/p38-rr-diff.html)

Cheers,

Lou

I haven't looked into anything further as of yet. Will definitely consider Ashcroft as well as Maxi Drive. I haven't had a diff fail on me yet but have had them become extremely noisy. To the extent I couldn't hear my wife sitting next to me in the passenger seat.
Am I wrong to have just expected better?
My curret rear diff absolutely howls at me a little over 90km/h with a little load on it. Still running standard tyre size and standard everything else except bolt on stuff. I'm still majorly disappointed with the service I have received from LRA.

[Loubrey]

We are actually very lucky over here in WA.

We only have two dealers and the one is out main club sponsor with all sorts of discounts and a very good relationship to boot. I just can't see that sort of difficulty for any of our club members.

Really sounds like an alignment or manufacture issue with your particular diff because while people do break them off road, they just don't seem to do what you are describing. Good luck going forward!

Have a watch of the attached Ashcroft youtube video on diff rebuild as it gave me quite a bit of insight into potential issues. It's a bit long, but worth a watch how it should be done.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ob9eBwbiwrw

Cheers,

Lou

[PAT303]

I haven't looked into anything further as of yet. Will definitely consider Ashcroft as well as Maxi Drive. I haven't had a diff fail on me yet but have had them become extremely noisy. To the extent I couldn't hear my wife sitting next to me in the passenger seat.
Am I wrong to have just expected better?
My curret rear diff absolutely howls at me a little over 90km/h with a little load on it. Still running standard tyre size and standard everything else except bolt on stuff. I'm still majorly disappointed with the service I have received from LRA.

Stupid question,what tyres are you running,do you have a roof rack,do you have roof bars,do you have anything that will cause the howling that you mentioned?,I'm asking because a diff only howls just before it ****s itself,if it's as bad as you say it would have lunched itself by now. Pat

[Scouse]

I'm asking because a diff only howls just before it ****s itself,if it's as bad as you say it would have lunched itself by now. PatIf it's crown wheel & pinion howl, it can go on for years & years.
My old RRC has an D1 diff that was replaced under warranty for a bad howl. It's been in my car for about 7 years now & it hasn't gotten any worse.

[PAT303]

I was thinking of buying another RR,know anyone who has any. Pat

[Scouse]

I was thinking of buying another RR,know anyone who has any. PatSorry, none around here...:angel:

:)

[Danjeffery]

I am running a roof fack and noisy tyres both are sure not making the noise. I have taken the rack on and off and have put original tyres back on. And you can hear the tyres change noise when the road surface changes but the howl remains.
The howl isn't extremely loud at the moment but it's very noticible. Seems to me like a crown wheel and pinion which has been changed also.
I can stop the howl by backing off the throttle. But once back on it or starts again.
The car and diff has apparently all been checked for alignment.

[jackdef90]

So I've just taken my 2010 90 (68000 kms ) in to check a few minor things, and turns out the rear diff needs to be pulled, I allways just thought it was the mud terrain tyres that were howlin a bit, I've asked them to hold the components that are faulty to gaze over. Hoping my dodgy extended warranty will cover some of the cost!!!!
So far I've had
2x clutches
Rear axle splines
Transfer case output shaft
Various other not so major things but all pretty $$ as extended warranty is dodgy and only covers various items

The vehicle is great and has never stopped me, I'm just hoping LR have updated it so it won't repeat any of the above, the diff is the biggest concern now after reading this thread

[David Hawes]

My diff fixed, noisy and getting worse at 60,000. I fitted ARB airlocker and this has immediately fixed the noise. I had the backlash adjusted and ARB planeteries installed by a diff specialist. He claimed the noise issue was caused by the single yoke planetary supports. By installing the ARB product it replaced them with doubled sided yokes and braced the crown wheel.
I don't know how much of that is correct but 10,000 Kay's later still no noise. And I have a rear locker and onboard air supply for under $2000.
Dave
Disclaimer- I'm a fitter/machinist not a mechanic and can only state what I observe on my vehicle which may be different to other issues stated here.