Electric drum brakes and LR stubs/hubs

[Rick1970]

Just tossing around ideas here for a future trailer project....


Has anyone done, or looked into using LR stubs and hubs and getting 10 or 12" electric drum brakes into the equation as well?


I have seen the electric/hydraulic disc setups, but I'm a tight arse :p


Trailer would/should be under the weight where it legally needs brakes, but after having a light camper trailer with them, I would be pretty keen to have brakes again.


Looking at tube axle, with LR stubs/hubs, coils and either LR radius rods/panhard or 4 link at this stage. Failing that, falcon or cruiser leaves.

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Rick

The problem with using LR hubs with electric brakes is that the magnets need a flat surface on the back of the hub face to work.

If you're talking about the Defender Disco 1 PCD, the easiest option is to get an off the shelf solid axle with stubs for parrallel (Land Cruiser) bearings and order in the hub/drum assemblies (they are one piece) to suit Land Rover PCD, which are an option.

What they don't have is M16 studs but 7/16" AF, you can resolve that by drilling the stud holes for M16 studs which you can get ex-Land Rover or Land Cruiser.

Diana

[Rick1970]

What I was initially thinking is adapting the electric drum (machined to suit) to the rear face of the LR hub, where the disc used to be. Have a suspicion that clearance from hub to stub, and stub mounting dia, may see that easier said than done tho.

[weeds]

Looking at tube axle, with LR stubs/hubs, coils and either LR radius rods/panhard or 4 link at this stage. Failing that, falcon or cruiser leaves.

when you say tube axle do you mean a land rover housing? if not than I suggest a solid axle. a solid axle with flanges to suit the stubs will be a custom made job, your standard trailer axle manufacture will not want to know you. stubs from a sals is your only option.....well easiest from a machine point of view.

if you eventually want to go electric over hydraulic than why not set up for hydraulic override disc first than when funds are available purchase the hydraulic pump. drum brakes are just so yester year.

the only new components I purchased were disc's, seals and brake pads. the stubs, hubs, callipers and bearing were all second hand.

I have a thread on here somewhere for my electric over hydraulic set up........

[Vern]

I'd like to do as you have Kelvin, but as I have independent suspension on mine I can't see an easy way to do it. Was thinking machine the axle down so the rover spindle slides over it and weld, but I can't remove my axles

[weeds]

I'd like to do as you have Kelvin, but as I have independent suspension on mine I can't see an easy way to do it. Was thinking machine the axle down so the rover spindle slides over it and weld, but I can't remove my axles

I'm kinda working on independent with flanges so that I can bolt land rover stubs on.

[Lotz-A-Landies]

What I was initially thinking is adapting the electric drum (machined to suit) to the rear face of the LR hub, where the disc used to be. Have a suspicion that clearance from hub to stub, and stub mounting dia, may see that easier said than done tho.Hi Rick

I am getting a mental picture of what you are suggesting and while it would work, there are a couple of issues.
The electric brake drums are actually a drum and hub in a single casting. You would have to machine out the original hub to fit over the back of the LR hub, which may or may not leave sufficient room for the magnets.
The additional space needed for the drum and backing plate may mean that you need longer stub axles than the original LR ones. It also may require more space between the drum brake backing plate and the trailer tub/springs
On the other hand, it may be worth investigating as an option for the later D2/P38 PCD if you want heavier axle capacity than offered with the Commodore PCD and bearings.

What it does give you is a hand brake, something that you don't get with electric/hydraulic using LR components.

[weeds]

.

What it does give you is a hand brake, something that you don't get with electric/hydraulic using LR components.

I have a handbrake only electric over hydraulic setup using land rover components.

I have a valve inline and it works a treat....I copied Kimberly kampers design.

Some have said what if I get I hydraulic leak...one this wouldn't be allow on the car brakes and rarely happens and two what if the cable for a handbrake fails oops some outcome.

[Lotz-A-Landies]

I have a handbrake only electric over hydraulic setup using land rover components.

I have a valve inline and it works a treat....I copied Kimberly kampers design.

Some have said what if I get I hydraulic leak...one this wouldn't be allow on the car brakes and rarely happens and two what if the cable for a handbrake fails oops some outcome.Hydraulic handbrakes on motor vehicles are not compliant with ADR. I would assume the same about trailers and hydraulic handbrakes, but can not confirn that fact.

Yes cable operated trailer brakes can fail because of poor adjustment but that is not the issue here.

[weeds]

Hydraulic handbrakes on motor vehicles are not compliant with ADR. I would assume the same about trailers and hydraulic handbrakes, but can not confirn that fact.

Yes cable operated trailer brakes can fail because of poor adjustment but that is not the issue here.

Was only pointing out that you can fit a hand brake.....Kimberly indicate their hydraulic handbrake is ADR compliant.

Actually you have just got me thinking.....I'm about to change my registration on my trailer to braked (apparently you need brakes over 750kg)and I believe I will need a roadworthy.......which I assume the will test the handbrake. Wonder how I will go. I might ask the question in another thread.

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Hi Kelvin

Westin and AlKo years ago used to have brake ratchets on hydraulic trailer over-ride systems (about the same era as vacuum trailer brake systems were common) but they were removed from the catalogues because they didn't comply.

Things may have changed, but IMHO losing pressure from a hydraulic system is a real issue where with a cable mechanism it's either on or not on (and you adjust it).

There is nothing to stop you fitting secondary cable/mechanical AlKo calipers and lever mechanism onto standard LR rotors in addition to the hydraulic calipers.

[weeds]

Hi Kelvin

Westin and AlKo years ago used to have brake ratchets on hydraulic trailer over-ride systems (about the same era as vacuum trailer brake systems were common) but they were removed from the catalogues because they didn't comply.

Things may have changed, but IMHO losing pressure from a hydraulic system is a real issue where with a cable mechanism it's either on or not on (and you adjust it).

There is nothing to stop you fitting secondary cable/mechanical AlKo calipers and lever mechanism onto standard LR rotors in addition to the hydraulic calipers.

Umm interesting......food for thought.

I wonder how KK get away with it

[Davehoos]

Is their a rego requirement for a handbrake on 750-2500 Kg trailer.
the override handle [spare parts] delivered this month did not have the handbrake lock.


I just did my inspection course for heavy vehicles and hand brake test was not discussed.


over 3500 ton had brake away requirement for a brake to hold the vehicle for 15 minutes to allow wheel chocks. the hydrolic brake trailer we have at work have a seporate air pressure released linkage disc caliper [alko].


the other thing was discussed for NSW was if its not regoed as homemade trailer it cant be modified without engineers reports.

[weeds]

It's under 2T and is home built.....

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Davehoos

I have a No.5 registed as home made (because they couldn't find GOF/ADI in the database), does that mean I can fit brakes without an engineers certificate?

Or is it merely be a change signed off by a Blue Slip inspector?

[weeds]

Quote from another forum.....

'Manufacturers should consider the merits of including a parking brake function when designing the braking system. ADR 38/03 clause 8 and 14 provides guidance for parking brake systems.'

[Rick1970]

Yes, machining the entire hub from a std electric brake drum was what I had in mind, leaving the magnet area untouched if possible. I hadn't given much thought to the extra space needed to the inside for the drum/backing plate, that could be a real issue.


And yes I was taking tube axle, maybe 2 1/2" x 3" seamless? And having oil in this for oil feed wheel bearings. I have access to lathe big enough to machine/true the hub flanges after welding if needed.


Mite have to take a measuring stick and notepad next time I visit local bearing centre...and strip a side off the 'spare' rangie....can't hurt to at least investigate the idea I guess.

[Rick1970]

when you say tube axle do you mean a land rover housing? if not than I suggest a solid axle. a solid axle with flanges to suit the stubs will be a custom made job, your standard trailer axle manufacture will not want to know you. stubs from a sals is your only option.....well easiest from a machine point of view.






Ok, what is the differences between the stubs for a Rover housing vs a Sals?


I would have rover stubs (RRC), but if the sals version is easier.....


I could make the axle, be it tube or solid.

[weeds]

Ok, what is the differences between the stubs for a Rover housing vs a Sals?


I would have rover stubs (RRC), but if the sals version is easier.....


I could make the axle, be it tube or solid.

Happy to be correct but from memory the sals stub is flat where it mounts to the housing. The rover axle has steps in it if that makes sense.

I have sals stubs and D1 hubs and calipers.....once again from memory

I also think defender hubs are different to D1 I.e. The offset where the wheels meets the hub, happy to be correct on this as well

[Rick1970]

yeah, from memory the rover stub has a step/spigot....

[Vern]

Kelvin, I was going to use Jag rear calipers as these incorporate a cable actuated handbrake,and look very similar to rangie/disco rear calipers. (May even bolt up)

[weeds]

Kelvin, I was going to use Jag rear calipers as these incorporate a cable actuated handbrake,and look very similar to rangie/disco rear calipers. (May even bolt up)

Nice.....I had to make an adaptor plate as it was

I like not have cables

[Tank]

1972 on Ford Falcons fitted with rear disks had the handbrake incorporated into the rear calipers, a bit cheaper than Jag parts and a few more around as well, regards Frank.

[modman]

Hydraulic hand brakes are perfectly legal on trailers, whether electric or lever/handle operated
Most hydraulic override trailers have this ability built into the coupling
It's not an ADR or requirement
When the trailer is built/registered to carry over xxxx kg then obviously brake away systems take over with their inherent safeties.
Dc

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Not sure where you are at with this post. :confused:

Electric drum brake assemblies have a cable operated park brake system as do most hydraulic trailer systems, unless it's like my haulmark PT1-1.2 which has dual systems, (hydraulic service brakes and cable operated park brake).

Brakeaway systems are different. The electric brakes have to have an independant battery source on the trailer to hold on the shoes for 15 minutes and the hydraulic or mechanical systems have to have some sort of pressure or spring system to hold them on when inadvertantly disconnected from the tow vehicle.

If interested my Haulmark is fitted with:
Manufacturer: Cebco
Main brakes Type: Caliper Disc Brake with C500 Hydraulic Override Coupling
Park brakes Type: Internal expanding, single shoe drum type brakes.