Stupidest service procedure ever or what?

[POD]

Was looking through the workshop manual for something else this morning and happened to notice the official procedure for checking the oil level-or rather, quantity- in the LT230 transfer case as fitted to Puma models: one must not use the filler plug as a level plug, or 'damage to the vehicle may result' (presumably this means that the rear output shaft seal will leak). Instead, one is instructed to drain the oil, measure it, and put it back in. :wacko:

[Lotz-A-Landies]

JLR must be in cahoots with an oil company! Who in their right mind would remove oil and put it back in. It must be a ploy to get the oil changed more frequently.

In the D4 SDV6 3.0 the engine doesn't even have a dip stick. You are left with the option of hoping the sensor is working or doing the same procedure of removing and replacing the oil!

[chopper]

So thanks to inbuilt oil leaks every time you drain and measure you get less and less of a measure of oil to put back in.
That is the stupidest or most stupid even.

[robbotd5]

You really need to take info like this with a bit of common sense...really.
The "fill/level" plug is exactly that and the drain is, well the drain.
If your transfer leaks, well you need to check the level between changes. If it does not leak (like mine) keep an eye on it.
Regards
Robbo

[uninformed]

JLR must be in cahoots with an oil company! Who in their right mind would remove oil and put it back in. It must be a ploy to get the oil changed more frequently.

In the D4 SDV6 3.0 the engine doesn't even have a dip stick. You are left with the option of hoping the sensor is working or doing the same procedure of removing and replacing the oil!

Do you think they are saying to put old oil back in, or to use the original LR filled amount as the guide to how much to re fill with? i.e. drain old oil, measure the amount, fill with same amount of new oil....

[Blknight.aus]

nope.

the service level of the LT230 in the ford is actually not correct, as the case has been tilted down and rotated the level plug has moved into a position that gives a different level.

From memory the oil level winds up being a couple of hundred mL low. (compared to the normal level) This in a Tcase that already has a relatively low oil quantity in it to the point that some people (and you can count me amongst them for certain cases) recommend fitting a different sump cover that holds more oil for arduous use.

same thing in reverse went for the T Case in the Australian version of the LAV. The designers messed with it for some reason, moved it about a bit and upset the oil level. the correct oil level was the low mark, off the bottom of the stick was low (yeah how far off the bottom of the stick?) and below that was time to top up.. Over filling it caused it to boil its oil

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Do you think they are saying to put old oil back in, or to use the original LR filled amount as the guide to how much to re fill with? i.e. drain old oil, measure the amount, fill with same amount of new oil....If the oil is not due to be changed but you want to check the level, say before a trip, what do you do if the filler plug can't be used to check level? After all you should check the engine oil regularly when not due to be replaced, why wouldn't you check transmission too.

Thats what I'm saying.

Personally I wouldn't re-use oil, just because of the risk of contamination in the box and during the removal and replacement process.

If as Dave says the filler plug is in the wrong place, then LR should have replaced it into the correct position.

[scarry]

The Puma,sorry Dave,Ford also has a filler plug on the G/box which isn't the level plug.

The diffs on the D3/4(Fords?) also have a measured amount,the fill plug is not the level plug.

Something many of us are not used to,but appears to be the way these days,as is the no engine dipstick.

Why they do this is beyond me,but maybe i am missing something?:angel:

[101RRS]

The diffs on the D3/4(Fords?) also have a measured amount,the fill plug is not the level plug.



Supposedly not but when I recently did my RRS front and rear diffs and tfr case the designated amount tied in exactly with the bottom of the filler plug.

Garry

[Blknight.aus]

The Puma,sorry Dave,Ford also has a filler plug on the G/box which isn't the level plug.


thats not the first landy thing thats done that.

series, county and early deefer swivel hubs

some series transmissions (fill from the top till it comes out the side bung)

but its also common on some trucks, mack for example, you were supposed to fill the top bung till oil came out of the power divider fill bung, then replace that then fill again untill oil came out the diff filler, never saw it happen everyone just filled it till the oil came out the diff bung and left it at that knowing that the oil had already filled the above compartment because it was now coming out the bottom one.

the original oil filled hubs on the M113 and the series 2 landy required you fill them to a certain point then rotate the fill plug to a horizontal position and wait for the oil to come out. theres plenty of planetry reduction hubs that have the same process. rotate it one way to drain (bungs at 9+6 )then turn 90 degree(12+9) to fill

[uninformed]

If the oil is not due to be changed but you want to check the level, say before a trip, what do you do if the filler plug can't be used to check level? After all you should check the engine oil regularly when not due to be replaced, why wouldn't you check transmission too.

Thats what I'm saying.

Personally I wouldn't re-use oil, just because of the risk of contamination in the box and during the removal and replacement process.

If as Dave says the filler plug is in the wrong place, then LR should have replaced it into the correct position.

well I can only imagine that the level must be lower than the fill plug, otherwise how would you fill it above that point. SO if that is the case its quite easy to make your own dipstick to check levels in even odd shaped housings…...

[Blknight.aus]

If as Dave says the filler plug is in the wrong place, then LR should have replaced it into the correct position.

its not in the right place, you just have to put the Tcase in in the original orientation...

not particularly difficult in my book, land rover got it right, BMW (and all and sundry others between them) got it right, Ford didnt.


but then they (ford) also managed to shoe horn their own 4 pot diesel into an engine bay thats been known to house V8s and 4ish L 4 pot diesels in such a way that it was possible to hit the engine sump with the front diffs UJ flange.

[POD]

It seems that the point is that the orientation of the transfer case in these vehicles is not the same as the vehicles they were designed for, so the position of the filler plug does not represent the right amount of oil. So the amount of oil in the case has to be measured to get the right amount. Given that the TC tilts downward, and the filler plug is at the rear, I'm thinking that the filler plug will end up below the oil level. What puzzles me is, if the filler plug (and yes, they still call it the filler plug, so I presume you are still supposed to fill it from there)- anyway, if the filler plug level will result in not enough oil in the transfer case, that means that you have to fill it up above the filler plug. There is no mention in the workshop manual of how they expect you to do this. Back wheels up on ramps perhaps?

[Blknight.aus]

Thats how I('d) do it.

Or you take off the breather or one of the bolts on the top of the pto housing plate and fill it through that.

[harro]

I would bet that the vast majority of Pumas fill to overflow of the filler plug 'on level ground' and have in theory insufficient gear oil in there t/cases.

The increased capacity offered by the larger sump cover is good for cooling but it wont increase the level in the t/case if you fill through the filler plug.
How important is this?

Paul.

[Gerokent]

Given that the TC tilts downward, and the filler plug is at the rear, I'm thinking that the filler plug will end up below the oil level. What puzzles me is, if the filler plug (and yes, they still call it the filler plug, so I presume you are still supposed to fill it from there)- anyway, if the filler plug level will result in not enough oil in the transfer case, that means that you have to fill it up above the filler plug. There is no mention in the workshop manual of how they expect you to do this. Back wheels up on ramps perhaps?


What are you on about here? "The filler plug is below the correct level?"

It is a FILLER plug, not a LEVEL plug, so it could be at any level,
as Dave alluded to when he mentioned Mack trucks ect.
But I agree, it's stupid from a servicing point of view.

[incisor]

Was looking through the workshop manual for something else this morning and happened to notice the official procedure for checking the oil level-or rather, quantity- in the LT230 transfer case as fitted to Puma models: one must not use the filler plug as a level plug, or 'damage to the vehicle may result' (presumably this means that the rear output shaft seal will leak). Instead, one is instructed to drain the oil, measure it, and put it back in. :wacko:

try doing a 6 speed dsg on a vw caddy...

you need special sump plug tool so you can over fill it and then run it so it heats up and then the excess drains out..

had to read it several times to come to terms with it...

[vnx205]

What are you on about here? "The filler plug is below the correct level?"

It is a FILLER plug, not a LEVEL plug, so it could be at any level,
as Dave alluded to when he mentioned Mack trucks ect.
But I agree, it's stupid from a servicing point of view.

Perhaps his point is that it is hard to use it as a filler point if it is below the level required.

Under normal circumstances, the oil would already be pouring out of the filler hole while you were trying to get enough in to get up to the correct level. :)

A filler hole above or at the correct level is easy to use. A filler hole below the correct level is a bit inconvenient.

[Ancient Mariner]

possible? The early TCs had a plug on the side too

[POD]

What are you on about here? "The filler plug is below the correct level?"

It is a FILLER plug, not a LEVEL plug, so it could be at any level,
as Dave alluded to when he mentioned Mack trucks ect.
But I agree, it's stupid from a servicing point of view.

What I'm on about, as you so politely enquire, is that in my humble experience with the LT230 transfer case (as with a wide range of other gearboxes and transfer cases) the filler plug is also the level plug, i.e. the correct level is reached when oil starts to run back out of the filler plug. This is the case with the LT230 transfer case in previous vehicles. It is also still the LR stated procedure for filling both axles on this same vehicle. In other applications where I have come across a filler plug that is not also the level plug, the filler plug has at least been above the oil level.

[POD]

possible? The early TCs had a plug on the side too

If you are asking whether it would be possible to fit an elbow as shown in the photo, I don't think so, certainly not without removing the park brake assembly and I don't think the park brake could go back on with that in place.
I wonder how hard it would have been for the manufacturer to install another plug at the appropriate level to serve as a filler and level plug.

[Rurover]

Seems to me there are two or three solutions here...depending on whether or not the filler plug is above or below the correct oil level.

If the filler plus is too low, then as has been mentioned, the rear of the vehicle needs to be jacked up a little to get it to the point where the level is correct.

Would be great if someone could experiment and work out just how much a 90 and 110 need to be jacked up (or rolled up on ramps) in order to get the filler plug in line with the correct oil level.

Alternatively if the filler plus is too high, then it's a matter of jacking up the front of the vehicle to get the correct level. Again, I'm sure I and other members of this forum would very much appreciate someone playing around with this to determine the correct height one needs to jack up the vehicle.

Again if the filler plus is too high, then it may be possible to make up a small "U" shaped dip-stick that can be poked into the hole to test the oil level.
Hopefully the parking brake assembly would not get in the way too much!

Of course the Getrag gearbox fitted to Pumas suffers from the same problem. The filler plus is not the level plug! That's even harder to get to, and the dip stick idea may not work in that rather cramped space.

Seems like the engineers at Land Rover (and Getrag) did a pretty poor job of designing these components.

Alan