40km/h speed zone in Sydney CBD

[Mick_Marsh]

Go-slow in Sydney after pedestrian deaths (http://news.ninemsn.com.au/national/2014/05/26/19/48/go-slow-in-sydney-after-pedestrian-deaths)

From the article:
"A vehicle that hits a pedestrian at 50km/h is twice as likely to cause a fatality as the same vehicle travelling 10km/h slower."

I remember an argument not so long ago:
"A vehicle that hits a pedestrian at 60km/h is twice as likely to cause a fatality as the same vehicle travelling 10km/h slower."

From the same article:
"In the first incident, a street artist died after being hit by 42-seater coach in Chinatown."
"The following day a man was struck and killed by a bus at the junction of George and Liverpool streets"

I think this more accurately hits the nail on the head:
"Mr Gay has also called on pedestrians to take road safety more seriously by always crossing at the lights, obeying traffic signals, and not getting distracted by phones or music."
How many time have I seen people texting walk into columns and people with ipods walk in front of trams.
I mean, how could you not see a bus?

[Ausfree]

That would have to be one of Clover Moore's (the mayor of Sydney) stupid ideas. If she had her way ALL cars would be banned from Sydney's CBD.

I wonder if the 40 kph speed limit would apply to those idiotic courier push bike riders in the CBD who regularly take risks.

[Mick_Marsh]

In the Melbourne CBD, I was run over by a woman on a Segway. I stopped at the red pedestrian lights, she ran them.

Last Friday I was almost skittled by an elderly fellow on a mobility scooter. He was hooting along the footpath faster than most people can run.

Why don't they do something about those people?

[schuy1]

So by that assertion all people who speed drive a bus? :D Simple fix, ban buses from the CBD!! ROFLAO! I can be certain if you get hit at 50 there is not going to be a lot of difference to being hit at 60! Its gonna hurt!
Most pedestrian deaths occur when their head hits the bonnet or screen as their legs get taken out, Are bonnets going to be padded now?:D
Silly pedestrians need to take more care and turn off their phones!

[Chucaro]

In the Melbourne CBD, I was run over by a woman on a Segway. I stopped at the red pedestrian lights, she ran them.

Last Friday I was almost skittled by an elderly fellow on a mobility scooter. He was hooting along the footpath faster than most people can run.

Why don't they do something about those people?

Mick, I saw once an old timer in his mobility scooter (AKA weapon in the Wide Bay (Qld)area) towing a custom made box trailer with lengths of timber about 2 meters long than the trailer. :eek:
He nearly run over two pedestrian in a corner by not calculating theangle of turn and his speed.

Now, regarding the 40kph speed limit in a CBD it will be not more sensible to have adequate car parking space in the perimeters of the CBD and have electric public transport vehicles for moving people within the CBD?
I think that there are some cities in Sweden that are like that.

[BMKal]

40km/hr limit in high density areas nothing new over here.

Perth CBD / Fremantle CBD / Beaufort Street Mt Lawley are just a couple that spring to mind.

We still have people walking in front of buses / idiot courier riders on pushbikes / arrogant tossers on mobility scooters - and recently even Segway "tours" though - the lower speed limit hasn't made any difference. :p

At least we haven't got these on the roads and footpaths over here yet ........................

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/05/147.jpg

I'll be right when I get old enough to need one ...................... I've placed my order for this model.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/05/148.jpg

[Redback]

Obviously these people have never driven in the CBD before, getting to 50kph is virtually impossible, and even more so in George, Elizabeth, Pitt, Kent or any other CBD street in Sydney.

I drove buses in Sydney for almost 20yrs, and I can tell you, pedestrians do some pretty stupid things, you have to have eyes in the back, side and top of your head to drive around Sydney, couriers, taxis, pushbikes, other buses, cars, does ya head in at times.

Baz.

[Mick_Marsh]

So by that assertion all people who speed drive a bus? :D Simple fix, ban buses from the CBD!! ROFLAO! I can be certain if you get hit at 50 there is not going to be a lot of difference to being hit at 60! Its gonna hurt!
Statisticians, quantity surveyors and authors of white papers will write a report disagreeing with you there.

Most pedestrian deaths occur when their head hits the bonnet or screen as their legs get taken out, Are bonnets going to be padded now?:D
I think they are already being made "Pedestrian Friendly" nowdays.

Silly pedestrians need to take more care and turn off their phones!
Pedestrians will cry foul. They have the right to be silly.

You know, some one once told me there is an average of three incidents a day involving pedestrians in Elizabeth Street in Melbourne. I found it difficult to believe until I saw a few. They certainly take risks. Even saw a copper book a pedestrian for "J" walking one day.

[discovery39]

My Opinion,
Its all Horse Manure.
It's part of a bigger plan to totally reduce the number of cars in the Major Cities, without actually saying to people that they are not allowed in the Cities.
There was recent talk of the Melbourne CBD being reduced a further 10k/ph to 30k/ph!!!
In some areas.
In the end, you may as well get out and Walk.
Which I believe is the Plan.
:)

[Mick_Marsh]

Now, regarding the 40kph speed limit in a CBD it will be not more sensible to have adequate car parking space in the perimeters of the CBD and have electric public transport vehicles for moving people within the CBD?
I think that there are some cities in Sweden that are like that.
Chucky for PM!
Great idea. Melbourne sort of has that. The trams are great. Mind you, due to popularity, they keep introducing new methods to make them difficult to use. The free one that circles the city is a great idea.

[Mick_Marsh]

My Opinion,
Its all Horse Manure.
It's part of a bigger plan to totally reduce the number of cars in the Major Cities, without actually saying to people that they are not allowed in the Cities.
There was recent talk of the Melbourne CBD being reduced a further 10k/ph to 30k/ph!!!
In some areas.
In the end, you may as well get out and Walk.
Which I believe is the Plan.
:)
It's 40 km/h already!
When did that come in? I don't drive into the city much nowdays.

[discovery39]

It's 40 km/h already!
When did that come in? I don't drive into the city much nowdays.



Has been that way for quite some time. Years in fact.
If Memory serves me, I think it may have been a Mr Kennet, that introduced the first idea? May well be wrong on that.
Started off with a few streets around the fringe, then slowly (no Pun) they increased the number of streets. It's not the entire CBD and surrounds, but it may as well be.
I don't think there are many left streets now, that aren't.
:)

[vnx205]

You know, some one once told me there is an average of three incidents a day involving pedestrians in Elizabeth Street in Melbourne. I found it difficult to believe until I saw a few. They certainly take risks. Even saw a copper book a pedestrian for "J" walking one day.

I don't know what happens there now because I have the good fortune of being able to avoid the centre of Sydney.

However, about 30 years ago, i saw a cop with a megaphone at a very busy intersection on George St. He wasn't booking people or actually directing vehicular or pedestrian traffic. He was giving a sort of running commentary on pedestrians' behaviour.

At one stage a woman pedestrian darted across the street against a red pedestrian light. I thought the public dressing down he gave that woman over his megaphone was probably more likely to dissuade her from repeating the act than a fine.

He said something along the lines of, "Congratulations madam. You have just completely ignored a red light, putting your own life at risk and .... ...". and so on.

I can't be certain that the woman felt suitably chastened, but from the stunned silence from the hundreds of other pedestrians, it seemed that he had got his point across to them.

Maybe we should bring back the stocks for acts of stupidity as an extension of that approach to persuading pedestrians to do the right thing.. :D:D:D

[discovery39]

Mick:
40 km/h limit in the central city - City of Melbourne (http://www.melbourne.vic.gov.au/PARKINGTRANSPORTANDROADS/ROADS/Pages/40kmhLimit.aspx)

[frantic]

Pointless political white noise, firstly if you go under a bus, it's around 5 ton a corner so at 10 kph your still not getting up, like the cyclist who took a shortcut down the foot path , straight under the buses back wheel as it was turning a corner.
Second no buses and 95% of the other car traffic will never get to 50kph between 7am and 8-10 pm on George st.
What a waste of time and money , that would have been better spent on a few fences down the middle of the street to herd the iPod sheep.:D

[Homestar]

I thought it rather amusing that just after the 40KPH limit came into the CBD for 'safety' reasons, the amount of speed cameras tripled - for 'safety reasons'....

[Ferret]

Been driving in Europe for the last month. There are 30 k/hr zones in some towns, some backed up by speed cameras every ~250 m.

[discovery39]

I thought it rather amusing that just after the 40KPH limit came into the CBD for 'safety' reasons, the amount of speed cameras tripled - for 'safety reasons'....


It must be more Dangerous driving at 40 than they had Originally thought.:angel:

[frantic]

Been driving in Europe for the last month. There are 30 k/hr zones in some towns, some backed up by speed cameras every ~250 m.

Most of the inner part of those towns date from 200-500+ years ago! way before cars. They where designed for slower moving traffic and no real space for 2 lanes of traffic , buses and pedestrians and parking.The largest item when they where built was a horse and cart. A
So back then nobody j-walked for a very simple reason no sewers, :eek: there where special crossings in high flow areas basically brick , stone or timber pillars so you didn't have to squelch through "high flow" areas. Parts of Naples still have no sewer and we where warned on the way to a club from our hotel to keep quiet as their way of dealing with noise is to empty the chamber pot out the 2-3 storey apartment window.:eek:

[Tank]

After 40 & 50 klm/hr speed limits were introduced in Suburban and CBD areas of major cities and towns (now everywhere in built up areas), the pedestrian fatalities rose by 12% and revenue from speed cameras in these areas tripled.
So we have 12% more fatalities, but 300% more red light revenue, so are governments going to change the speed limits, no way.
Cause of majority of pedestrian accidents is INATTENTION (the biggest killer on our roads) either by the pedestrian not paying attention or the driver fearful of getting a hefty speeding fine (45 or 50 in a 40 Zone) with his/her eyes glued to the speedo.
There is a School Zone up in Canberra that has a 24 hour 40klm/h, the cops had a field day there. There were no flashing lights warning that the School Zone 40k limit applied, Don't know if it is still there.
HUD speedos would help, some speedos are hard to read at slow speeds, esp. during the day, Regards Frank.

[Mick_Marsh]

After 40 & 50 klm/hr speed limits were introduced in Suburban and CBD areas of major cities and towns (now everywhere in built up areas), the pedestrian fatalities rose by 12% and revenue from speed cameras in these areas tripled.
So we have 12% more fatalities, but 300% more red light revenue, so are governments going to change the speed limits, no way.
Frank,
What is the source for these statistics? I would love to forward them to my local MP asking him for an explanation.

[Tank]

Well I started with the ABS and went on from there, actually if I remember correctly it started with an article in Wheels magazine and went to ABS and beyond, good luck with the polly, Regards Frank.

[Ferret]

Most of the inner part of those towns date from 200-500+ years ago! way before cars. They where designed for slower moving traffic and no real space for 2 lanes of traffic , buses and pedestrians and parking.The largest item when they where built was a horse and cart. A
So back then nobody j-walked for a very simple reason no sewers, :eek: there where special crossings in high flow areas basically brick , stone or timber pillars so you didn't have to squelch through "high flow" areas. Parts of Naples still have no sewer and we where warned on the way to a club from our hotel to keep quiet as their way of dealing with noise is to empty the chamber pot out the 2-3 storey apartment window.:eek:

No not talking about old cobble stone streets or rat holes like Naples. Germany, modern small towns, wide roads. Frierichshaften for instance. 30k/hr down the main drag and at least 4 fixed radars along it.