How bad can tradesmen get?

[drivesafe]

As many of you know, I work in the auto electrical field, but I specialise in dual battery systems.

In the last month I have had three situations I had to get involved in in which auto electrician’s work, to say the least, was appalling.

The first event occurred when one of my suppliers ask if I could look at a motor home, which had just been fitted with on of the supplier’s DC/DC units.

The motor home was based on a Toyota Coaster. These are 24v vehicles and this one had just recently been purchased by the current owners and they had had a problem where there fridge was only operating for around 6 hours before their house battery went flat.

they had done some research on the net and found that there motor home was fitted with a 24v to 12v step-down power supply and from their research, they realised this was not intended to charge the 12v house battery from the vehicle’s 24v system.

So they purchased a 40 amp 24v to 12v Sterling battery to battery charger.

Not having any form of auto electrical experience, the owner got an auto electrician to wire the new DC/DC unit and at the same time, they replaced to old 100Ah battery with two new 100Ah batteries.

the auto electrician wire the new batteries back to the DC/DC unit, and run a parallel circuit to their 3 way fridge, with both circuits fuse protected with standard in-line blade fuse holders. ( more on this later ).

With the “EXPERT” work done, they set off on a trip from Newcastle to Brisbane, stopping overnight at different locations alone the way and by the second night they found their fridge was still only running for around 6 hours.

So they contacted the supplier of the Sterling unit and explained they predicament, and the supplier suggests that they find a local auto electrician and get him to inspect their system.

This they do and the auto electrician finds that the previous auto electrician had fitted the two new batteries and earthed each battery to the vehicle chassis. So far so good.

He had then wired one of the batteries positive terminals back to the Sterling unit, via the in-line fuse, BUT, he had not connected the second battery’s positive terminal to the first battery’s positive terminal.

So these poor soles still only had the use of one battery.

The new auto electrician states that he will join the two batteries together but he must use a fuse to do this as it is illegal to join two batteries together without a fuse????????????????????????????????

So he joins the two batteries together using a short length of cable with a 60 amp in-line mega fuse fitted.

And that’s his “EXPERT” job done.

For a starter, there is no such law requiring the batteries to be joined via a fuse. Don’t have any idea where that one came from.

But worse still, there is a 40 battery charger ( DC/DC unit ) connected to these two batteries via a standard in-line blade fuse holder.

If this second “EXPERT” knew anything about the field he is working in, he would be aware that the highest rated standard blade fuse available is 40 amps, so at best, the fuse protecting this set up is a 40 amp fuse.

The problem is that while there are 35 and 40 standard blade fuses, they are not readily available and the largest commonly available standard blade fuse is 30 amps.

The second “EXPERT” should have known this. Both of the “EXPERTS” should also have known that you need to use both cabling capable of carrying much higher currents than the a circuits maximum expected current load and a fuse at least 25% larger than the circuits maximum expected current load.

In this case with a 40 amp charger, the fuse should have been at least 50 amps.

The save grace for both idiots is that the DC/DC device was also powering a 9 amp drawing 3 way fridge. So the fridge was just drawing enough to stop the battery’s fuse from blowing but it still could have got so hot that it melted.

I replaced the 60 amp mega fuse and lead with a short length of 6B&S cable between the two battery positives and then replaced the 30 blade fuse and holder with the 60 amp mega fuse and it’s holder.

Why the hell do the auto electrician not do this?

I then instructed the owners on how 3 way fridges must not be run off the house batteries for more than a very short time. Preferably not much longer than 30 to 60 minutes after the motor is turned and that if the stop is any longer, they need to switch the fridge to gas.

The two “EXPERTS” should have given this operating info.

“EXPERT” number 3

A couple of days ago, I have someone with a new D4 contact me to but a D4 battery tray and while this is all he needs, we get talking.

He is getting a new caravan and has been advised that he needs to fit a DC/DC device in the caravan, as the D4 will not charge the house battery while he driving. Not so but that’s another story!

He tells me the auto electrician has already installed a Redarc isolator in the engine bay and had wired up his D4 to be able to power the DC/DC device to be fitted in his caravan.

This wasn’t sounding to promising as there is no need to fit the isolator as the DC/DC device is it’s own isolator.

Anyway long story short, he was not sure what size cable had been used so got him to send me a few photos of the setup.

Sure enough, the “EXPERT” had wired up the D4 with the auto electricians favourite cable, 6mm AUTO, which is only 4.5mm2, while the correct size cable to use is 6B&S ( 13.5mm2 )

This guy is now going o have to start all over again.


Now to “EXPERT” number 4 and by far the worst setup.

Yesterday I get a call from a company on the NSW North Coast, which I have been supplying my gear to for more than 20 years.

They had a gent come in and wanted to know if they could fit a DC/DC device in his soon to be picked up new caravan.

The gent had a new D4 and the owner of the company explained to him that they always fit my isolators in the D3 and D4 and now DC/DC device was needed.

But he had been instructed by an auto electrician in Sydney, that because his tow vehicle was a D4, he had to have a DC/DC device fitted in the caravan or the house batteries would never charge.

The boss suggested the D4 owner give me a call and he did.

We had a long chat but the gent pointed out he did not have the slightest wiring knowledge but again, from what he told me about his setup, things didn’t sound right.

So I told him the best thing to do was to go back to the company and get them to inspect the set up.

This afternoon I get another call from the boss and he has a problem.

He did not want to touch the D4, and he explains why.

While trying to figure out what the auto electrician in Sydney had done, they gave him a call.

To their horror, he explains that he has run a single length of red ( positive ) 6mm2 cable from the rear of the vehicle to up under the dash on the passenger side.

But as he could not find a way though the firewall and into the engine bay, he had joined the cable to the D4's existing wire loom under the dash.

But wait, it gets worse!

The same “EXPERT” also fitted and wired up the D4’s electric trailer brakes.

He had done this by connecting the brake controller, under the dash to the cranking battery, via a 30 amp auto resetting circuit breaker.

So far sounds OK, but not so.

He has run a length of 5mm AUTO twin from the controller to the circuit breaker fitted near the battery.

This would normally be a length of 6mm AUTO cable, which is 4.5mm2 but as the twin 5mm AUTO means the combined cable size is 5mm2, so that's fine.

But what is anything but fine is that the “EXPERT” has then used a short length of 1mm2 WIRE to connect the circuit breaker to the cranking battery.

The boss told me they really didn’t want to touch the D4 and I told them that problem is easy to fix. I made it quite clear that I would not warranty any of my products if they were fitted to this D4.

This gent is literally driving a fire hazard and I would bet his warranty is now null and void, and all because he went to what he thought was an EXPERT.

This is what goes on in my industry. Is it the same in other automotive fields?

[Chops]

G'day Tim,

Quote; I then instructed the owners on how 3 way fridges must not be run off the house batteries for more than a very short time. Preferably not much longer than 30 to 60 minutes after the motor is turned and that if the stop is any longer, they need to switch the fridge to gas.

The two “EXPERTS” should have given this operating info.
End Quote;

There are a lot of experts/salesmen that don't give practical advice during dealings with customers. Even when we picked up our new Defender, I guess it was just "assumed" we knew what we were doing :confused:

My sister rang the other night due to dramas with the house water pump at the farm. An "expert" plumber fitted the new pump up to the tank with no inline one way valve between the pump and the tank. The pump sits rather high, so she's just been informed that she now cant let the tank get lower than 1/4 or the pump wont be sucking water,, :eek:

I tell you,, you have to pay a premium price for these guys, for what,, only to find out they're Experts alright,,,, X being an unknown quantity, Spurt being a drip from a tap,,,,

Good luck in getting them sorted mate,,

[MR LR]

If you think auto elec's are bad you should see the attitude of SOME panel beaters!

[Blknight.aus]

Ive seen that and worse from mechanics,

[Chucaro]

I think that I have the record on that.
Many years ago we have an engine replaced in our Ford Cortina by a Ford dealer south of Brisbane.
We arranged the job with them and stopped in a motel for 2 days waiting for the car for our return to Sydney.
The car was ready at 5pm so we put all our luggage on it and left to Sydney looking forward for a trouble free overnight trip.
WRONG, the filled the cooling system but they did not allowed time for the thermostat to open so the engine do not have any cooling.
Temperature gauge was not connected.
Brand new engine overheated :mad:
How a so basic thing can be overlooked by a mechanic and further more by a new cars dealer!!???

[DeanoH]

A couple of years ago I was at a mates holiday block where the only structure was a laundry/toilet block. His missus was doing the washing and came running out to say she couldn't turn the washing machine off. Turns out that the licensed electrician had switched the neutral line, not just the one GPO but at the switchboard :eek::eek: so active/neutral was transposed throughout the structure and had been for 4 years.
The fault that made the washing machine stay on was that with it's vibration it had ridden over and cut into the mains cord and the neutral wire effectively bypassing the switch. A potentially lethal scenario.

Tim, re the battery coupling 60 amp fuse, perhaps the installer was trying to create some sort of protection in the event of one or more cells collapsing and putting an effective short into the system ?
I had this happen to me once, sitting at the campfire 20 metres away I could hear this funny noise and smell of sulphur, it was a battery boiling.
I had 2 flooded cell N70 battery's solenoid coupled with (unknown to me) two s/c cells in one battery. The current flow between the battery's must have been huge, the 100 amp solenoid contacts were welded together and the battery's were in melt down mode. A couple of large fuses/fusible links could have stopped this from happening and protected the good battery.

Deano :)

[RisingSun]

We had an engine replaced in my wife's commodore. About 3 weeks later after driving it around I parked it up. About 20 minutes later heard the starter motor kicking over, assumed some was trying to steal the car and ran into the garage to inspect. Greated by smoke pouring out of the bonnet. Threw it into neutral and pushed it out of the internal garage :eek: onto the driveway to watch it burn. By the time I got the extinguisher and bonnet open, all the wiring and plastics shot.

If we had not been home we would have lost our house out of that one.

Of course we got no satisfaction out of the warranty, everyone just blamed every other link in the chain. :(

[goingbush]

I agree most Auto Electricians are pretty ordinary.

Every used 4WD I have ever bought I've had to spend days pulling out all the accessory wiring and start from scratch. Twist joins under tape and sending 'black wire disease' down the factory loom is typical.

Even my new Iveco, (first brand new car I've owned) I wanted to fit the new bulbar myself, but they insisted they do it, that was good until it got dark, one indicator and one of the headlights didn't work.

As for 3 way fridges in the Caravan, no they should NOT be connected to the house battery at all, the 12v element runs off the car battery. (via relay that kills the power when IGN is off) A separate 12v feed charges the house battery.
When stationary switch to gas .

[Blknight.aus]

elastic bands as orings and backers for axle seals.

[bee utey]

And then there was the bloke who got his mate at a suburban garage give him a hand to fit a gas system to his old Cruiser. They worked out that there was "room" for two cylinders of a 3 cylinder manifold tank to fit under the middle. So they acquired a 3 cylinder tank assembly, cut off one cylinder and even found a welder to weld plates over the holes. The bodged tank was then mounted with a few bits of inch by eighth angle and little more than gutter bolts. I received a phone call from the garage owner asking me to certify the system, as they had dun such a ripper job.

Come the day the owner appeared with the Cruiser, and he couldn't understand why I was sooo upset. An A4 sheet wouldn't have been big enough to list all the faults. Sent him off with a flea in his ear, I suppose it's still trundling around out there with a bomb hanging under it.

That's just the worst one, plenty of really bad gas conversions out there, some fitted by supposed "licenced" trained experts.

[Cracka]

Nothing surprises me these days............:mad:

Somebody on here posted a link to ARB fitting instructions for their bullbars onto a Defender. So how does ARB instruct you to connect the bullbar indicators to existing vehicle indicator wires, bloody scotch locks of all things :eek::censored:

Mick

[rijidij]

Ive seen that and worse from mechanics,

I've heard of a mechanic who dabs grease on all the grease nipples with his finger to save time and make it look like it's been done. :eek:

Cheers, Murray

[rijidij]

.......... bloody scotch locks of all things :eek::censored:

What is the 'correct' way to tap into a wire where you don't have any extra length to play with.

Are these any good, or are they just another sub standard short cut Posi-Tap (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/BULK-POSI-TAP-CONNECTORS-20-16-AWG-20-PACK-/321295089487)

Are there any good alternatives to scotch locks ?

Cheers, Murray

[LandyAndy]

I've heard of a mechanic who dabs grease on all the grease nipples with his finger to save time and make it look like it's been done. :eek:

Cheers, Murray

We have a mechanic who refuses to grease machines as part of a service,not his job,operators responsability he says.
Andrew

[Homestar]

What is the 'correct' way to tap into a wire where you don't have any extra length to play with.

Are these any good, or are they just another sub standard short cut Posi-Tap (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/BULK-POSI-TAP-CONNECTORS-20-16-AWG-20-PACK-/321295089487)

Are there any good alternatives to scotch locks ?

Cheers, Murray

I don't like using anything like that. I generally cut the wire, slide on some heat shrink, strip the ends back and solder the whole lot back together. Then heat shrink the joint.

If its internal to the vehicle I will strip the insulation back without cutting the conductor, solder the new wire to it, then tape it up.

Yes, it takes longer but I always get a solid connection that never comes loose and the electrical integrity doesn't degrade over time like scotch locks or other types of quick connectors.

[Spudlynicholas]

If going near moisture I spend the extra few cents per connection and get the marine style connectors!

When shrunk down they (should) be hermetically sealed.

Speaking of which, I have to procure some more....

[drivesafe]

I use a number of different means of joining wires and cables and for non current load connections, like picking up a high beam connection to operate a driving light relay, I will use Scotch locks but I have been doing so for more than 30 years.

I do not recommend novices use them because there is a specific way to fit them and fail to do it right and you can have all sorts of problems.

In the field I like soldering medium to high current joints, but again, unless a person knows what they are doing, they can create problems for themselves when soldering inside a vehicle.

I supply terminal strips, also called screw block terminals and supply different size units for different cable and current sizes.

These too must be fitted properly but if you get it wrong you can easily do it again, BUT these are only suitable for internal junctions.

For all external junctions and terminal connects I either crimp or solder.

When it comes to novices having to fit large terminals to thick cable, unless they have access to the correct crimping tools, I always recommend they solder the terminals to the cable. This way, if they get it wrong, heat the terminal up, remove the cable and start again.

[AndyG]

On the boat, solder, silastic over join, then heat shrink.

[gofish]

The Difference Between Wogs & Aussies: TRADIES - YouTube (http://youtu.be/lv5XrG-qy0Q) :D ..... sorry

[drivesafe]

:D ..... sorry

Hi Gofish and that’s like a recent government study that found 91% of all Boat People were coming to ostralya, to get back with the family doctors!

Seriously, while I hate government involvement, there does need to be some form of Trade certification and then, on going validation.

This problem must be costing lives but no one in authority wants to rock the boat.

[lyonsy]

i literaly trust no ones work these days id rather do it my self and knows done right or at least i know i screwed it up.
the more i have used and trusted these so called eggspurts the more i have been screwed over.
i sent a truck to get a service once (i run a workshop) gave the guy all the filters 10000km latter i get it in to service not a single filter i gave him was fitted needless to say he gets no more work.

i adgree that on earth moving machinery mechanics should not grease them as the operators should be greasing them as they know how many hours they have done since the last grease and over greasing can be worse then undergreasing them

[Chops]

We have a mechanic who refuses to grease machines as part of a service,not his job,operators responsability he says.
Andrew




i adgree that on earth moving machinery mechanics should not grease them as the operators should be greasing them as they know how many hours they have done since the last grease and over greasing can be worse then undergreasing them

The mechs should be doing this regardless.

Its not a bad thing that operators do this IMHO as yes, they know how many hours they've been running, but it also means they're keeping an eye on the equipment for wear and tear etc.
Too many times I've seen operators that just say "stuff it, it'll get seen to later". By the time it gets to service though, there's extra damage to components etc that really could have been avoided, and then the mechs have to fight to fix it. It ends up costing everybody extra time, labour and cash.

[p38arover]

If its internal to the vehicle I will strip the insulation back without cutting the conductor, solder the new wire to it, then tape it up.

Ditto, except I use self-vulcanising tape, not electrical tape,

[blitz]

long story cut short; I am a fridgy first and Electrician second, got so jaded with it all started my own business.

[p38arover]

A friend is having a sunroom added for her mother. She wanted the door to swing against the wall (I can't recall if it was to be hinged on the right or the left).

The door and frame duly arrived and, when it was about to fitted, she noticed it swung the wrong way.

When she commented, the tradies doing the work said all doors are now swung that way. She said that's not what's on the contract and drawings. She was right.

The tradies even got the boss out to tell her all doors are swung that way.

She wasn't having it and sent them back to get the right door. Had she not been home it would have been finished and wrong.

35 years ago, at our previous home, I had my 14' wide garage extended. I came home from work to find they'd poured a 12' wide slab behind the garage You'd think they would look at it and think, "Something's wrong here".

[Bytemrk]

You'd think they would look at it and think, "Something's wrong here".

That's the key Ron - many unfortunately just do "the job" and don't THINK.

I have a couple of tradesmen that I use again and again at work - why, because they think about the job I am asking them to do and often give me better suggestions than the original request.

They think about the end user, question things and have pride in what they do.

Tradies like that are worth far more to me than the rates they normally charge. ;)

Mark

[Bigbjorn]

I've heard of a mechanic who dabs grease on all the grease nipples with his finger to save time and make it look like it's been done. :eek:

Cheers, Murray

Very old trick. Used to be normal practice at a major Brisbane new vehicle dealership. Cars were allowed twenty minutes on the hoist for grease, oil, and filter. If not finished, dab fresh grease on the missed points.

[Ratel10mm]

long story cut short; I am a fridgy first and Electrician second, got so jaded with it all started my own business.
Another Fridgie! ::D:


That's about 6 of us I think. We need our own sub section on Aulro! :lol:

[Ratel10mm]

That's the key Ron - many unfortunately just do "the job" and don't THINK.

I have a couple of tradesmen that I use again and again at work - why, because they think about the job I am asking them to do and often give me better suggestions than the original request.

They think about the end user, question things and have pride in what they do.

Tradies like that are worth far more to me than the rates they normally charge. ;)

Mark


I wish all clients thought like that!




On connecting cables - I like scotch locks for controls applications. But always use the gel filled self sealing type. They provide a far better connection than any screw based connection device in high corrosion & moisture environments, in my experience.
My pet hate is BP connectors. Sure, they have a place in the scheme of things - but not when you end up with a potentially dangerous, bloody-difficult-to-test-&-fault-find, rat's nest! I use chocolate block (terminal strip to Aussies) when appropriate & crimps for permanent connections.
With crimps, I always use a ratchet crimping tool. The use of plier type crimping tools is mostly banned / illegal in the UK, although like here, they're ubiquitously on sale! :rolleyes:
I was shocked recently when an apprentice was going to use his linesman's pliers to do some crimps, having ignored the proper tool in my crimp box. When I told him off & explained why, he said that their TAFE instructor had told them to use pliers!
No bloody wonder we complain about the quality of young tradies if that's the level of training they're getting!!!!!! :mad: :censored:


And that brings me to another thing. My pet hate with Australian attitudes to trades, etc. "It'll be alright mate" as shorthand for "I can't be bothered to do the proper job" or "The customer doesn't want to pay for the proper job, so we'll just bodge it". Yes, it has it's place & on occasion I take that attitude myself. Sometimes you have to. However, I believe that as long as we have that attitude as the general consensus, we cannot 'lead the world' in anything but bludging regardless of what the pollies & media try to tell us.


OK, rant over & apologies to any who feel I've been a 'know it all foreigner racist bastard with my thoughts.

[UncleHo]

Brian Hjelm and I must know the same Brisbane dealership :D being spares and service I can clearly remember seeing vehicles dabbed with grease, the oil filter wiped clean the paper aircleaner element blown out and refitted all by the apprentice and charged out at tradesman's rates with sometimes the odd,brake adjust,pad or lining replacement thrown in, but mostly just the minimum and a vacuum out and fresh paper floor mat :D;)

And that was at a well known Rover and Volkswagen dealer in Brisbane now gone.

[460cixy]

I fix other mechanics mistakes all the time its just pathetic really. I now have an apprentice and with in two weeks his picked up more skills then some so called tradesman can manage. I wasent keen to take him on at first but the boss was keen his a fast learner with out the fast mouth he will go far if he sticks with it .

[Bigbjorn]

Brian Hjelm and I must know the same Brisbane dealership :D being spares and service I can clearly remember seeing vehicles dabbed with grease, the oil filter wiped clean the paper aircleaner element blown out and refitted all by the apprentice and charged out at tradesman's rates with sometimes the odd,brake adjust,pad or lining replacement thrown in, but mostly just the minimum and a vacuum out and fresh paper floor mat :D;)

And that was at a well known Rover and Volkswagen dealer in Brisbane now gone.

Mine was a different one, Kev. Name is still in use but owned by others now. Their service dept. used to be in Lamington St. New Farm if that gives you a clue.

[UncleHo]

G'day Brian :)

Yeah! think I know who, I was at A&T at the time, now it is just a big hole in the ground,transfered up when marriage went pear shaped,to sort out custody of son,got it too,home state and gainfully employed :) no single fathers pension very hard for a father to get custody in those days cost me a bomb for private care while I was at work,history now,he turned 50 last Monday :D GAWD! it makes me feel old!

cheers

[DiscoMick]

This bit amazed even me:


"He had done this by connecting the brake controller, under the dash to the cranking battery, via a 30 amp auto resetting circuit breaker.

So far sounds OK, but not so.

He has run a length of 5mm AUTO twin from the controller to the circuit breaker fitted near the battery.

This would normally be a length of 6mm AUTO cable, which is 4.5mm2 but as the twin 5mm AUTO means the combined cable size is 5mm2, so that's fine.

But what is anything but fine is that the “EXPERT” has then used a short length of 1mm2 WIRE to connect the circuit breaker to the cranking battery."


I don't know much about this stuff, but even I know a 1mm wire is going to burn long before it sets off a 30am circuit breaker. Wouldn't a 10 amp circuit breaker and at least 6mm wire have been the way to go?

[drivesafe]

Hi Mick and the problem is worse because the 1mm2 WIRE is before the circuit breaker so the 1mm2 has no protection at all.

I feel really sorry for that D4 owner because the incompetent auto electrician has not only made the D4 owners vehicle a fire hazard, but most reputable auto electricians will not want to touch the mess as they would then be responsible for the vehicle from then on and if they don’t find all the negligent work, they may well be in trouble if the D4 suffers from any faulty work that is missed.

[DiscoMick]

Yes, you have to wonder.
I thought 6mm dual core wire with the negative to an earth and the positive to a 10amp circuit breaker, with a 6mm single core to the battery positive was pretty standard practice. At least, that's the little bit of information I was able to pinpoint as being generally reliable.

Sent from my D1 using overweight hamsters.

[slug_burner]

Some incompetence referred to in this thread can be understood on the basis that you don't always get the sharpest knife in the draw, however some of this stuff is just outright fraud. Sounds like the automotive servicing industry has it fair share of rogues, although the fraud is not necessarily instigated by the trades you would have to accept they were complicit.

[Blknight.aus]

as seen today at work...

1 propshaft bolt missing? 1 inch long weld joining the flanges on the circumference over the missing bolts section.

[p38arover]

as seen today at work...

1 propshaft bolt missing? 1 inch long weld joining the flanges on the circumference over the missing bolts section.

I'm not sure I want that Perentie!

[Blknight.aus]

not a problem it was on a toymota...

had a funny vibe in it after it had gone in to have a noise sorted, could we have a look and see.

[Bigbjorn]

Oh, Dave. You have problems with these kinds of repairs? Go work in a lower priced used car yard for a while or for a tight-arsed small fleet owner like "Miserable" Murdoch who used to run sheep trucks in Central West NSW. He would re-use fencing wire that had already served a purpose on another truck.

[Ancient Mariner]

When I bought my Defender all the flanges were welded to the axles .That the welds had`nt cracked was due to the power of the 300 tdi ?:Rolling:more than the expertise of the welder:D

AM

[DeanoH]

My first Land Rover was a 1966 SIIa which I obtained in 1973. It was bought from and serviced by a well known South Melbourne Land Rover dealer. When I serviced the vehicle I found a plug in the sliding joint grease nipple hole on the front drive shaft. The LR manual stated that...... 'this plug is to be removed at the first service and replaced with a grease nipple'

On the most recent dealer service on our D2a the coolant hadn't been topped up when the top hose clamp was replaced and the oil was filled to the add mark. On checking the service book, it hadn't been filled in for three years. :(


Deano.

[Blknight.aus]

fronts too.

I hate that....

espesially when you're doing a job for some hack who wants it done and dusted quickly because that makes the work cheaper (and I usually only work off of fixed prices) so he puts the flanges back on then welds them up for you....

picture my joy at the moment of this conversation

Mate, whys the left drive flange bolted down?

Oh I bolted that up for you while you had lunch

Wish you hadnt done that, I've got to pull it off again now

why?

(picking up the lock tab and second nut from the mud guard)
I didnt fit these yet, your wife called me in, lunch was ready

sorry

No great loss, it'll only take an extra 15 minutes or so
(pops the rubber boot off)
ummm, why is it welded?

cause the rears were

How do you expect me to finish this now?

just slide the axles out like the rears

(That look)

[460cixy]

Thanks for the laugh I needed it today hahahahahahahahaha :D

[DoubleChevron]

I don't get it ... why would anyone weld flanges down. What is that supposed to achieve (are the bolts really that hard to get to that it's less effort to drag the welder over and weld laying under the car :eek:

seeya,
Shane L.

[rick130]

I don't get it ... why would anyone weld flanges down. What is that supposed to achieve (are the bolts really that hard to get to that it's less effort to drag the welder over and weld laying under the car :eek:

seeya,
Shane L.

Axles to drive flanges is a bodge that can get you mobile again when the splines are flogged out and you are stuck, and anyone unscrupulous can do to reduce backlash when selling a Landy. ;)

[DoubleChevron]

Oh crap, I know what your on about .... I've done that before myself knowing I'd be throwing it all away as soon as I got the parts .... but could be mobile in the meantime. Seriously though, who'd weld up anything on someone elses car if your a mechanic. Guess who'll be dealing with that ***** in the near future whne they bring it back :wasntme:

I hope there not welding up splines that are designed to slide :eek:

seeya,
Shane L.

[DiscoMick]

Its not just tradies. The computer industry is just as bad. Long story short:
I noticed that my emails had stopped coming a week ago. I tried to log in but my login was rejected even though I knew the details were correct as they have been unchanged for 9 years.
Phoned the provider who have taken over another company. Five phone calls over 6 hours later, here's a summary:

1. The providers computer decided something was dodgy in my emails and stopped them (even though I have Norton which scans them and had not found anything suspicious), but didn't inform me it had stopped my emails.
2. The providers computer also changed my password, but didn't inform me it had changed my password.
3. The provider in its wisdom has arranged it so that the old customers can't log in through any of the new providers page, they have to use a specific page. However, they don't tell you that unless you ring them up, so you keep getting rejected by the providers page which most searches by Google, Firefox etc redirect to.
4. The provider will not accept any of the old passwords which are less than 9 characters with at least one capital. How many thousands of the old customers must have been cut off and forced to change their passwords, after much mucking about?
In summary, when I eventually got to my emails I found several important ones which were now out of date. If I was a business, I would be suing the provider for lost business and for the time I had to spend sorting out the mess they had caused.
The providers customer service people were very helpful over the 6 hours I was trying to sort out this mess, which was entirely the fault of the providers management, who are obviously incompetent and should be sacked en masse IMHO.
So, some tradies are not the only ones who deserve a big boot up the bum.



Sent from my D1 using overweight hamsters.

[p38arover]

When I bought my Defender all the flanges were welded to the axles .That the welds had`nt cracked was due to the power of the 300 tdi ?:Rolling:more than the expertise of the welder:D

AM

You weren't the only one. Another chap on this forum found the same thing.

[Bigbjorn]

When I was operating Viking Engineers in the late '80's, I was doing some marine engine work for a local slipway and marine business. I was overseeing an overhaul to a main engine in a very old tug from the Solomon Islands. The senior apprentice from this place was assigned to the job, a fourth year who had finished college with good results. One afternoon I asked him to book out the big hand cranked ridge remover from the main yard and bring it the next day. No ridge remover, already booked out on another job. Says I "Righto, grab your scrapers and hop up on that engine and take off the ridges." Dumbfounded apprentice within a few months of becoming a full blown fitter tradesman wanted to know how he did this. I gave him a few minutes of instruction in the use of scrapers and told him to get on with it and that he must have missed all the prac. in first year college if he didn't know how to use scrapers. He was made to scrape all seven cylinders to my satisfaction. He hated me intensely after this particularly as I told his master he was bloody incompetent (many other reasons not just scrapers) and should never become a tradesman without repeating years 3 & 4. No notice taken unfortunately.

[slug_burner]

Brian,

Your a hard man, hard but fair? Hand scrapping probably got replaced by a lesson on CAN Bus and OBDII.

[Bigbjorn]

Brian,

Your a hard man, hard but fair? Hand scrapping probably got replaced by a lesson on CAN Bus and OBDII.

First year Fitting and Machining still has the old exercise of "Reducing a surface by chipping, filing, and scraping". The apprentice makes a small surface plate from rough castings without using a machine tool. The point was that he had completed the three years college component of his apprenticeship without acquiring basic skills.

[UncleHo]

Oddly enough in one of my tool boxes is a set of hone stones various grades, and a ridge removing tool large enough to do a Landrover 2.25 ltre,and a set of brake wheel cylinder hone stones,just some of the stuff one collects over time :)

[slug_burner]

Brian, No doubt you are correct. I was hedging my bets with the reply and would change it to a lesson on G Code and CNC programming but still happy to take your judgement as correct and if more hard decisions were made like that then maybe this thread would be more about how good tradesmen can get.

[Blknight.aus]

Brian, No doubt you are correct. I was hedging my bets with the reply and would change it to a lesson on G Code and CNC programming but still happy to take your judgement as correct and if more hard decisions were made like that then maybe this thread would be more about how good tradesmen can get.


nice thing about power tools.

I remember a certain uncle John of mine who upon learing of this new electicry controlled computery junk machining crap who set upon a race with some young blokes who thought all this power and computery stuff was the ducks danglies.

Rules of the race. He would use nothing but hand tools and they, whenever it could be bought to bear would use power tools and computer controlled equipment.

The challange.

deck a 3 pot diesel block. fortunately there were 2 of them due for obsolesence from the same type of vessel, in the same general condition and to be fair he would let them select the engine they wanted.

I knew it wasnt going to go well for them when the first thing they did was strip off the bolts holding the exhaust manifold to the frame mount...

by the time they had the fruit off using power tools he was at the head and was measuring it with a straight edge and feeler gauges. Hed already leveled the cylinders stuffed them with rags and put a very powerful magnet in a bag in each of the pots padded with more rags

by the time they had the drive coupling and housing off (rusty rounded bolts from power tools) of the engine he had scraped the block and was bluing it so he could invert an engineers plate on it to check it for flat. the whole process of flattening the deck too him better than 3 hours, a long slow patient process

by the time they had the engine out and started to dismantle it so that it would fit into the mill he was bolting his back together.

and while yes, the mill once setup machined the top of the deck in something like 15 minutes, they were still cleaning up swarf from inside the block when he kicked his into life. Something about an experienced engineers touch was sagely mentioned

Sure the CNC mill did a much quicker job of machining the block, Doesnt make sense that he could not only do the job faster but with less assosciated costs by hand......

Computer controlled stuff has its time and place. Other times do it by hand its quicker and you get a better overall result, assuming of course you have the basic hand skills to start with.

[superquag]

Story rings a bell.

A Hungarian Mechanic I know has a very dim view of Aussie 'training'.
- Their first job at Tech school was to make their own hand tools.... with which they created a threaded nut and bolt.
After this...and other hand-tasks, did they start on engines.

Oh yes, basic auto-electrics, and panel-beating/welding/bronzing/painting was also expected for most European Motor-Car Mechanics, especially the Eastern end...

You wouldn't want to know what the words meant when he expressed his view of LR and the LT230 he successfully repaired. (No RAVE or documentation provided by his boss, just repair/replace the broken bits as he stripped it.)

[AndyG]

Speaking of a good tradesman.
Hired a shipwright , taught by the missions, 50 years of building wooden boats, on the beach, no power& or power tools. Just a steam box and hand tools.
Did a superlative job, (slowly), until he finished, stole my oakum, copper sheet, copper rivets, etc, and sent a message asking for his bonus.:o

[Blknight.aus]

You wouldn't want to know what the words meant when he expressed his view of LR and the LT230 he successfully repaired. (No RAVE or documentation provided by his boss, just repair/replace the broken bits as he stripped it.)

I'm guessing that since he didnt have to have an electronic diagnostics box to tell him which bit was wrong with it just so he could swap out the whole thing it wasnt that bad.

most of the bad words I throw at landrovers when Im spannering on them are aimed at the monkies that have been let in there before me.

[superquag]

Vaguely, I remember the problem as a mainshaft gear set, the one that is hollow, cogs on (both?) one end and splines. - The one that should have had holes in it to lubricate but didn't. LR later modified them with holes...
So the splines stuffed up. Must have, as the original problem was 'No drive' and 'Expensive Noises before the No Drive...'
As I mentioned, such a skilled artist, that shims/clearances etc throughout were set by experience, not supplied info.

Box was smooth and 'Japanese' - quiet afterwards...:wasntme:

He also re-built my Pajero diesel. Compressions were at the top end of the tolerance scale and within ONE needle-width of each other.:eek: Ran very smoothly too ! Just wished I'd taken his advice about removing the balance shaft...

[superquag]

Another one.

When a teenager, our house was re-wired by a young (Family Friend) Sparky. Imagine my surprise & confusion when my brand new phase-pencil - remember those ? - showed he'd reversed two GPOs.:o

That was the trigger that pointed me to learning 'electrical' and being able to do my own.
And critique subsequent, qualified tradesmen's workmanship.:twisted:

By the way, he went on to become the Managing Director of the company he worked for.

[Blknight.aus]

He also re-built my Pajero diesel. Compressions were at the top end of the tolerance scale and within ONE needle-width of each other.:eek: Ran very smoothly too ! Just wished I'd taken his advice about removing the balance shaft...


It's always nice doing follow up maintenance after guys like that have done the work...

they're the few the rare, the special jobs that all mechanics love, when it actually goes all by the book and you get everything done that you say you will and you get it done inside the allotted time so you have a few minutes to do some of your own tidy up work in the bay as well as having all your pack up done before the end of task timing.

[blitz]

When I was operating Viking Engineers in the late '80's, I was doing some marine engine work for a local slipway and marine business. I was overseeing an overhaul to a main engine in a very old tug from the Solomon Islands. The senior apprentice from this place was assigned to the job, a fourth year who had finished college with good results. One afternoon I asked him to book out the big hand cranked ridge remover from the main yard and bring it the next day. No ridge remover, already booked out on another job. Says I "Righto, grab your scrapers and hop up on that engine and take off the ridges." Dumbfounded apprentice within a few months of becoming a full blown fitter tradesman wanted to know how he did this. I gave him a few minutes of instruction in the use of scrapers and told him to get on with it and that he must have missed all the prac. in first year college if he didn't know how to use scrapers. He was made to scrape all seven cylinders to my satisfaction. He hated me intensely after this particularly as I told his master he was bloody incompetent (many other reasons not just scrapers) and should never become a tradesman without repeating years 3 & 4. No notice taken unfortunately.

I guess it my age, I spent 100's of hours as an apprentice hand lapping valve plates off of compressors now - throw the whole lot out and chuck a new unit in

[DoubleChevron]

This is a great thread for poeple that like to see the quality of trademanship these days .... from the local builders.

Caravaners Forum • View topic - ROGUES GALLERY or HORROR STORY ??? (http://caravanersforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=12286)

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/06/1358.jpg

How to earth the 240volt circuit of a caravan ... if you silicon and staple that earth wire to the wood frame.... she'll be good and safe, that sucker will never fall of :eek:

seeya,
Shane L.

[AndyG]

I think we have a winner

[Chops]

I think we have a winner

It's probably a dumb question, but are we sure the works been done by a "tradesman"? I haven't read the entire thread yet as I'm on my phone. The reason I ask is that on several occasions, I have watched "non" tradesman do this kind of work.

[DoubleChevron]

It's probably a dumb question, but are we sure the works been done by a "tradesman"? I haven't read the entire thread yet as I'm on my phone. The reason I ask is that on several occasions, I have watched "non" tradesman do this kind of work.

All those pictures are of 1->5 year old 'vans that manufactures have built :eek:

[isuzurover]

At least with LV stuff things can't go too wrong...

We have recently had 2 instances at work where tradies have drilled or screwed into steel door frames, rendering them live by drilling or screwing through the cables running in them!

[Davo]

This is a great thread for poeple that like to see the quality of trademanship these days .... from the local builders.

Caravaners Forum • View topic - ROGUES GALLERY or HORROR STORY ??? (http://caravanersforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=12286)

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/06/1358.jpg

How to earth the 240volt circuit of a caravan ... if you silicon and staple that earth wire to the wood frame.... she'll be good and safe, that sucker will never fall of :eek:

seeya,
Shane L.

I'm reading that whole thread now . . . holy blinking moley! I guess I won't be buying a caravan for a while.

[Ratel10mm]

A recent one - since when do tradesmen not sweep / clean up, and leave swarf all over the work site?

[Davo]

A recent one - since when do tradesmen not sweep / clean up, and leave swarf all over the work site?

Since about 5000 BC!

[Homestar]

A recent one - since when do tradesmen not sweep / clean up, and leave swarf all over the work site?

More recent than 5000BC. When I was on the tools, I took great pride in what I did - that included leaving the worksite (be it a factory, office or home) in as good or better state than I found it. Cleaning up is part of the job, it's just that too many now have no pride in what they do and don't give a toss as long as they get paid.

[scarry]

A recent one - since when do tradesmen not sweep / clean up, and leave swarf all over the work site?

Last week,my guys went to an office to dry core a 70mm hole in a concrete filled besser block wall.They did the right thing,took the trusty Vax and held it below the hole while the other drilled.Had to do it from inside the office as outside the hole was to high up to do without trestles,etc.
So one is drilling,apprentice has the Vax nozzle under the hole,catching the dust.They also put down drop sheets over the computers,etc.

Then the fire alarm goes off:mad:

They stop and find there is dust everywhere.

Someone had forgotten to put a bag in the Vax,so it just blew the dust all around the office.:o

That turned into one BIG clean up....