Series II SWB Front Brake

[grey_ghost]

Hi All,

I sent an email to a UK parts supplier to order some parts for my 1960 SWB Series II. I included this picture with the email:

http://i1155.photobucket.com/albums/p549/tomb1971/Roger%20-%201960%20Land%20Rover/IMG_3241_zps847574b3.jpg

This picture was taken while I was cleaning the front hub/brakes - this was how the vehicle was when I got it...

Anyway - here is the response from the supplier:

You have a LH backplate fitted to the RH side. (The brake adjuster must go towards the front).
Sorry to impart the bad news but unless you want to drive everywhere in reverse the brakes could well apply themselves unexpectedly.

:eek: :(

What are the thoughts of the AULRO brains trust?

[B.S.F.]

They (the suppliers) are correct..W.

[Gerokent]

You are not alone;
I fitted new wheel cylinders and shoes to mine the other day, and when finished sat down with a cold beer and admired my handy work only to see that the brakes were set up as dual trailing shoe (the last owner had done a partial rebuild and fitted the backing plates to the wrong sides) so dismantle everything and swap sides to make dual leading shoe set up.

[Johnno1969]

Thanks for pointing this out.

[gromit]

Hi All,


You have a LH backplate fitted to the RH side. (The brake adjuster must go towards the front).
Sorry to impart the bad news but unless you want to drive everywhere in reverse the brakes could well apply themselves unexpectedly.


The comment about applying themselves unexpectedly is an exaggeration.....

It's a single leading shoe setup whichever way round you put the backplates but the adjuster should go on the leading shoe so that the shoe giving the most braking effect is applied immediately. The trailing shoe has less braking effect so allowing it to sit away from the drum (because there is no adjuster) is OK and would introduce a split second delay in it being applied.
In reality I don't think you would even notice the difference.

Another option is to fit an adjuster for the shoes that don't currently have them, problem is that most of the aftermarket adjusters are made of a material that's about the same hardness as cheese......

The previous owner used it like this without any problems, it would be better if you put it right but it's nothing to panic about.


Colin

[B.S.F.]

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/series-i-land-rover-enthusiasts-section/104569-matildas-jammed-rear-drum-brakes.html#post1247115

I knew I read about this problem before. .W.

[gromit]

I'd forgotton about the lack of a return spring which might mean in certain conditions that the brake locks on when applied.
Still wouldn't make it apply unexpectedly though.

The previous owner must have used it for some time like this so he couldn't have had any problems (unless that's why he sold it......).

Colin

[Homestar]

It the RH backing plate on the left side by any chance GG? Is it just a case of swapping them back or have you got 2 LH backing plates?

[grey_ghost]

Hi Gav,

If the brake adjuster has to go on the "front" - then the passenger side is ALSO around the wrong way:

http://i1155.photobucket.com/albums/p549/tomb1971/Roger%20-%201960%20Land%20Rover/IMG_3225_zps94a77b43.jpg

So for whatever reason in the past, the previous owner has fitted them back to front! Although why would you need to remove the backing plates & complete braking system? An axle swap perhaps?

So I think that the plan is - as you say - take everything apart and swap it around.

On ANOTHER note - the supplier sent me another email, and I thought that I would share it with everybody on here as I know that Series brakes can cause problems - and it is interesting reading...

The brakes may well work as they are but what should be the trailing shoe will be at the front. As this brake shoe is only held off the drum by the lower return spring it is very close to the drum.
If it touches the drum when the car is moving forward it will be dragged further into contact resulting in the brake being applied (without touching the brake pedal!) When this shoe is in the correct position it is still close to the drum but (again when moving forward) if it touches the drum it will be forced away due to the direction of rotation.
You can see that there would still be a danger of self application when reversing but as this is usually at very low speeds it is not a problem.
By the way, one of the most common mistakes when reassembling the brakes is to fit the top return spring incorrectly – this results in a very poor brake pedal, commonly requiring the pedal to be ‘pumped’ to obtain a decent brake. The bottom spring should be fitted brake shoe to brake shoe but the top spring should run from the peg (that the snail cam adjuster sits against) on the back of the leading shoe, behind the adjuster to the peg on the brake backplate. It must not be fitted from shoe to shoe.


I hope that everyone finds this interesting.

[gromit]

Hi Gav,


The brakes may well work as they are but what should be the trailing shoe will be at the front. As this brake shoe is only held off the drum by the lower return spring it is very close to the drum.
If it touches the drum when the car is moving forward it will be dragged further into contact resulting in the brake being applied (without touching the brake pedal!) When this shoe is in the correct position it is still close to the drum but (again when moving forward) if it touches the drum it will be forced away due to the direction of rotation.
You can see that there would still be a danger of self application when reversing but as this is usually at very low speeds it is not a problem.
By the way, one of the most common mistakes when reassembling the brakes is to fit the top return spring incorrectly – this results in a very poor brake pedal, commonly requiring the pedal to be ‘pumped’ to obtain a decent brake. The bottom spring should be fitted brake shoe to brake shoe but the top spring should run from the peg (that the snail cam adjuster sits against) on the back of the leading shoe, behind the adjuster to the peg on the brake backplate. It must not be fitted from shoe to shoe.



Their comments are once again interesting.
The trailing shoe (now the leading shoe) isn't that close to the drum (unless it's a new drum & new shoes) because it doesn't have an adjuster.

Colin

[B.S.F.]

Usually don't care what people do to their cars. However since this is steering related and you've got to disassemble everything anyway ,I just like to point out that the steering levers should be fastened with studs ,one of which is thicker to prevent any movement, and not bolts. .W.

[JDNSW]

Usually don't care what people do to their cars. However since this is steering related and you've got to disassemble everything anyway ,I just like to point out that the steering levers should be fastened with studs ,one of which is thicker to prevent any movement, and not bolts. .W.

Well spotted!

John

[Cannon]

Should the tie rods be on top as well????????
or doesn't it matter?

[Homestar]

Should the tie rods be on top as well????????
or doesn't it matter?

I think they are right. I changed them all the other day on this vehicle and they all work fine where they are. Took a few blows to get the tapers unseated so I'm guessing they were right. I wouldn't have thought you could put them in upside down to be honest.

[phin]

If the backing plates have to come off you could replace them with twin leading shoe front brakes off a 109. I have a set I removed when going to 3" front brakes from a 6 cylinder you can have for free if you're interested. They need new shoes and hydraulics but the backing plates are sound.

cheers
Phin

[Cannon]

I Think the whole assembly's on the wrong side.

The steering arm should be on the bottom.

It is on mine:

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/06/1298.jpg

[JDNSW]

Steering arms were moved from the top to the bottom during Series 2 production. Depending on when the axle was made, either could be correct for that axle (which may not be the one that it had when it left the factory).

It was about the same time that the top swivel bearing changed from a spring loaded tapered bush to the railko bush. Also, at the same time, the size of the studs was increased, I think from 5/16" to 3/8". As mentioned above, it is very important that one of the studs be the special fitted stud to prevent any possibility of movement.

John

[Cannon]

:TakeABow::TakeABow::TakeABow: :)