What winch for defender 90?

[Toxic_Avenger]

I'm in the market for a winch to attach to my Puma defender (90). I run a ARB winch bar.

I understand the 'sweet spot' for winch rating (2x vehicle mass), but interested to know what other factors I should be aware of before deciding on the right model (motor HP, gearing, cable vs synthetic, winching speed, sealed electrics etc).

Warn winches have 'the brand', but then again, they are rather expensive, and other brands / models have similar specs at a 1/4 of the price. Plus I have limited imperial tools to do any maintenence on them. I don't mind saving pennies and buying quality if it's justified.

What are you running, and what recommendations can you make?

[Tombie]

Mako are worth a look :)

[jimr1]

I suppose the question you have to ask yourself is how often will you use It ? if your going to be in a situation were you will need to recover on a regular biases , then buy a quality product . If It's for once in a blue moon a Turfer can be a good option , I have seen a cheep Chinese winch fail , It was pulling a 100 series up a long steep hill and wouldn't stop , he was lucky as there was plenty of pope out , and had time to disconnect the battery . I have a Super Winch , It's over 10 years old , and has never let me down , but like Warn there not cheap , I have thought about going Plasma pope , when my steel pope wears out , but It's still going , so until then I'll stay with what I've got . One other point I would like to make is treat all winching with the utmost caution , learn how to use It safely before you ever need to use It , if you don't know go with someone who does !!..Jim

[simmo]

I have an XD 9000lb Warn, low mount, I bough it second hand for 1000$, only used once. The galvanising was still like new on the rollers :)
I used it many times, submerged it many times, pulled a car and loaded wood trailer up long slippery slopes etc. It never let me down.

I had to rebuild it twice to replace the nylon bushes for the winch drum, they do wear out. but they were cheap and easy to change. Good thing about warn is you can relay on it, and rebuild it, buy parts for it. That counts in my view, cheap initial purchase price is not always a good deal. It's a long way from being the most expansive winch. Companies who make things for a long time usually know something about their craft, that's my opinion about Warn. I have faith in the winch and know it won't let me down. I would recommend an XD 9000 for your 90 as just about the ideal winch for your car size and weight. Plus it's low profile does not block off your radiators etc. My wire is still hanging in there , but i'm looking to change to Dyeema soon when i have the time. Avoid anything that's new to the market, very cheap, and doesn't have a good record or reputation. good luck, a winch is a great addition to your car if you live anywhere near forests or slippery tracks .

[Cammo]

My $0.02:
Think about why you're fitting it. If it's going on your weekend plaything, a cheaper winch would probably suffice. Yes, it might see more use, but that will allow scope to upgrade motor/solonoids/etc as they wear/fail. If it fails on a weekend trip, chances are you either won't be too far from home, or there'll be someone there to give you a hand.

If you're fitting it to your remote tourer - a vehicle you and your family are going to use to see some remote areas, save your pennies and buy a good winch. You might only need it a few times, but you're paying for the peace of mind that - even after corrugations, bulldust, creeks and whatever countless other forms of abuse its going to cop sitting out front there - when you plug the remote in, it's going to work. On the rare occasion that it doesn't, buying something big branded means someone somewhere will have some parts and know how to make it work again.

FWIW, I run a Warn 12 XE with wire rope on my 130.

[Toxic_Avenger]

Mako are worth a look :)
I'll check them out, thanks for the heads up


I suppose the question you have to ask yourself is how often will you use It ? if your going to be in a situation were you will need to recover on a regular biases , then buy a quality product . If It's for once in a blue moon a Turfer can be a good option
Thanks Jim, Repair vs replace is a very valid concern. Whether you actually get 4x the life out of a winch vs its cheaper cousin is the age old conundrum. My golden rule is that water and power shouldn't mix. So having a well sealed unit is a big positive.
There is plenty of remote space up this way, and generally it's just me and the missus (we generally dont drive in a convoy). I wouldn't expect to use it every time we go out, but it's always good to know that we have the ability to get 'just that little bit further' on the track if needed. Yesterdays adventure was cut short by a fallen tree across the track which I was unable to shift with the hi lift, and Didn't have an axe handy to get it into more manageable pieces. A winch and a pulley or two would have made easy work of it.



I have an XD 9000lb Warn, low mount, I bough it second hand for 1000$, only used once. The galvanising was still like new on the rollers :)
I used it many times, submerged it many times, pulled a car and loaded wood trailer up long slippery slopes etc. It never let me down.

I had to rebuild it twice to replace the nylon bushes for the winch drum, they do wear out. but they were cheap and easy to change. Good thing about warn is you can relay on it, and rebuild it, buy parts for it. That counts in my view, cheap initial purchase price is not always a good deal. It's a long way from being the most expansive winch. Companies who make things for a long time usually know something about their craft, that's my opinion about Warn. I have faith in the winch and know it won't let me down. I would recommend an XD 9000 for your 90 as just about the ideal winch for your car size and weight. Plus it's low profile does not block off your radiators etc. My wire is still hanging in there , but i'm looking to change to Dyeema soon when i have the time. Avoid anything that's new to the market, very cheap, and doesn't have a good record or reputation. good luck, a winch is a great addition to your car if you live anywhere near forests or slippery tracks .
This is the exact model I was looking at at ARB yesterday. Seems to be a good balance between brand, load rating, and price, coming in at around $1500. I was concerned about the HP rating of the motor though? Is this a concern when choosing a winch, or is it more to do with the gearing and quality of the gears?
For work, I sell industrial equipment, so fully understand how after sales service is a big part of any capital equipment investment. Sometimes junk costs more long term. Assuming the higher quality gear has the quality to last the distance (sometimes they build obsolescence into equipment :mad: )


My $0.02:
Think about why you're fitting it. If it's going on your weekend plaything, a cheaper winch would probably suffice. Yes, it might see more use, but that will allow scope to upgrade motor/solonoids/etc as they wear/fail. If it fails on a weekend trip, chances are you either won't be too far from home, or there'll be someone there to give you a hand.

The deefer is definately not the grocery getter,and usually flying solo on the tracks. So reliability is a real concern, especially given that I might not see another 4wd on the tracks out here if you are stuck.


I've been researching a lot about winching techniques, and understand the main points of setup, safety and winching. Once setup, I'll get a good run down from a mate who has been doing it for years.

This is a good video if anyone is interested:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=StZHlHD09XM

[Toxic_Avenger]

Any thoughts / feedback on these units?
http://milemarker.com/pdf_downloads/SEC95_ES_Single_Page.pdf
Mile market 9500 ES winch. Sealed units to IP68 standards.
Looks to be decent gearing and motor HP. Decent pull speeds too. 2 year warranty though, unsure of spare parts availability.

Researched a few internet opinions on the warn XD9000 winch, claiming nylon bushes deteriorate and unit is poorly sealed from the elements.

[LowRanger]

I have a Mako (Avenger) 12000lb winch on my 110 play truck and a Warn
XD9000 on my 130.The Mako is an allround better winch in my opinion.It is well sealed from the elements,it is fully rebuildable and parts are available,unlike a lot of the cheaper winches on the market.You will expect to pay a premium price for this though,the last price I saw was around $1200 fitted with Dyneema rope.The relay units are also sealed unlike the Warn units,which are a type unto themselves,but can be swapped over to sealed units.The whole size/capacity thing of winches should jut come down to buying the largest capacity that you can fit in the space available and that you can afford whist maintaining quality.You will never regret having a inch that is has too high a rating,but you will regret buying one that has too small a rating.With the higher rating,you will always have the luxury of knowing that your winch is working a lot easier and within its limits.

[88classic]

I believe there is only 1 answer...the 8274 warn high mount with 6hp upgrade with good rope 10mm

[Toxic_Avenger]

hi 88classic. I need a low mount winch to fit my bull bar.
That winch is a beast though!
I'd think to run a high mount, I would need to do some considerable fabrication / modification to make it fit.

[simonfish]

With the ARB bulbar and a winch, are you going to need to upgrade your front springs ? If so, which ones (LR ones), as I am looking to do the same thing.
cheers
Simon

[lmurko]

there are a few good cheaper brands out there, mako is definitely one of them. the mako avenger series is definitely very popular. i also recommend the t-max brand, but i have heard down the grape vine that a newer brand known as runva is practically a warn winch at a third of the cost ;) as with everything the money you spend generally comes down to if you want to hardly use it or use it hardly :)

cheers,
Lachlan

[Grappler]

I mounted a Runva XP11000 to ARB bar on my 130 a few months ago.

Pulled a couple of bogged vehicles with it and used it around the property pulling trees.

No problems so far.

Only complaint is wireless remote is a bit flaky in the cabin, but from what Ive heard the expensive ones have the same issue.

[FeatherWeightDriver]

Great timing on this thread, I am sniffing around for a new winch for my 110... as a winch noob the options are doing my head in!

In real world use for a fully loaded 90 or 110, is a 9500 pound winch strong enough?

I get that higher rating winches are usually faster and pull lower amps at the same load, and higher ratings are "better", but will a 9500 leave me wanting for pulling power versus say a 1200?

[Larry]

Great timing on this thread, I am sniffing around for a new winch for my 110... as a winch noob the options are doing my head in!

In real world use for a fully loaded 90 or 110, is a 9500 pound winch strong enough?

I get that higher rating winches are usually faster and pull lower amps at the same load, and higher ratings are "better", but will a 9500 leave me wanting for pulling power versus say a 1200?

If a 9,500lb winch is not enough, just use a snatch block = 19,000lb! ;)

[Toxic_Avenger]

Even from a dead weight perspective- a 12000lb winch with cable could weigh 70kg under the bull bar! That's another (skinny) passenger!

[Toxic_Avenger]

If a 9,500lb winch is not enough, just use a snatch block = 19,000lb! ;)

Wouldn't you need to use 2 pulleys to get the 2:1 mechanical advantage?
1 pulley just changes the direction of load.
Issue with this is the more mechanical advantage you want, the more winch line you need!

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/06/693.jpg

[clubagreenie]

Runva I avoided only on the basis that I couldn't get hold of someone for 3 weeks when trying to buy.

I have a goodwinch, which Is a base mako/a few other brands from china upgraded with ratios and motor. Plus is the brake is external (necessary for dyneema) and it's waterproof. That said the base model (mako etc) has very good reports and well priced.

[Larry]

Wouldn't you need to use 2 pulleys to get the 2:1 mechanical advantage?
1 pulley just changes the direction of load.
Issue with this is the more mechanical advantage you want, the more winch line you need!

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/06/693.jpg

If you take the cable through the snatch block then to another point (tree, another car etc) as in figure 1, yes it's just changing the direction, but if you bring the cable back to vehicle with the winch you get the 2:1 mechanical advantage.

Half the load but also half the speed.

[Toxic_Avenger]

If you take the cable through the snatch block then to another point (tree, another car etc) as in figure 1, yes it's just changing the direction, but if you bring the cable back to vehicle with the winch you get the 2:1 mechanical advantage.

Half the load but also half the speed.

So it's essentially figure 2, where the top most pulley is the winch drum?

[Larry]

So it's essentially figure 2, where the top most pulley is the winch drum?
Correct.:D

[FeatherWeightDriver]

Even from a dead weight perspective- a 12000lb winch with cable could weigh 70kg under the bull bar! That's another (skinny) passenger!

Hey I resemble that remark! Except that usually I am driving ;)

[simmo]

Any winch that's water proof is a bonus, it also stops the dust getting in. The comments about the XD 9000 winch drum bushes is fair , they do wear out. But like I said they can be bought mail order for less than $20 last time I bought them, and are easy to change. And yes the XD 9000 winch does get water in it. If the mile marker has a good reputation in the forum and is $300 cheaper and IP 68 it sounds like a good deal. There's much more choice of winches now than say 13 years ago. The warn relay panel, might not be sealed but each relay is, I never had any issues with the relay panel. Wireless winch control I'll be avoiding, too easy to loose or damage in my view. 9000 lbs is 4000kgs, in my view is plenty powerful enough. for a 110, even with a 2000 kg trailer i can just use the snatch block. It's powerful enough top drag a 110 along the ground on the diff centers. IMHO big is not always better, just more weight and expense, with limited value.

[AndyG]

For my new tourer defender I have decided on a Tirfor, recovery bag of stuff, a Apt guard with recovery points and a nugget rear recovery point. I sincerely hope they remain unused, along with the fire extinguisher & first aid kit. Time will tell.

[camel_landy]

Do a search, it has been discussed MANY times...

The main points being:

* Vehicle mounted vs Hand winch.
* How often will it be used.
* They don't like being submerged!!
* Mounted can only pull you forwards... A hand winch can recover you backwards too (often the best way out!).
* Vehicle mounted is more than just the unit... Heavy, uprated springs, battery, etc.
* In the right place, they are brilliant.
* Require regular servicing.
* Very dangerious without proper training.

Do your research. IMO - I'd go for a Tirfor.

M

M

[clubagreenie]

The only winch I know to be proven to be watertight (and therefore dust) is the Goodwinch from David Brown UK. Seen them running underwater so proven stuff.

[Sirocco]

The only winch I know to be proven to be watertight (and therefore dust) is the Goodwinch from David Brown UK. Seen them running underwater so proven stuff.

Not all Goodwinches are created equal, you need to be looking at the Goldfish for water tightness, and its David Bowyer ;)

Im running an old Warn M8000 on my 90. Never let me down mechanically but the allbright control pack has done on 2 occasions! Its working a lot better these days but due for another service.

Pulls the 90 and sankey trailer when required. We are getting stuck on 33" MT's running LSDs so not exactly 'tame' stuff for an 8000lbs winch.

G

[jimr1]

The American Co. SuperWinch brought the uk. Co. Fairy Winces quite a few years back , I sure they made the original Capstan Winches , In there range they make the Husky Winch , unlike most other winches that are Planetary geared there Rack and Pinion , There pull rate is a bit slower , but they are very strong . When I was looking at winches to buy I looked at these , but the price was to much for me . I settled for The X9 in the end , and It has been a good winch , I first saw them on a Camel Trophy video , and they made them work harder than anything I would ever need !!..

[simmo]

Superwinch X9, I looked it up on the internet it looks good, fitted as an option to Toyota so it must be good, those guys won't fit anything substandard. Looks like good parts availability, good reputation and plenty around, made in USA, ticks all my boxes. do mind informing about the price? it might be a good replacement for my aging and much abused warn xd9000.

[jimr1]

Simmo Funny you should say that , because I brought mine from Ferntree Gully Toyota . When I was looking to buy a winch I was collecting onfo , prices makes , pulling rates ect. I phoned Superwinch in Sydney to send me any brochures , The guy there said we have then on special at the mo. through Toyota dealers . Melbourne City were the best price , I got the local mob to match them job done , I have had It X9 on 3 of my trucks , most of my recovery has been to help others , but It has never let me down , I would put It up with Warn , if anything a bit better , Warn don't like water , mine has been through lot's of deep water never botherd It !!..

[clubagreenie]

Superwinch were the choice for a while for the Camel Trophy vehicles