I found a P38, but do I want it?

[4X4V8]

Went to see an 01 HSE today. Really very tidy cosmetically, but I think it has a few problems. I remember reading here about likely slipped liner symptoms, but failed to find the threads aft a search.
The engine was warm when I arrived. Before starting it,, the coolant overflow bottle was empty. Engine oil looked ok and underside of oil filler cap dry.
Engine fired up, quiet and smooth. -PAMJ- vin number, high comp I think?
The coolant overflow stayed empty. I slowly released the cap and some coolant started to trickle in via the small inlet pipe. Very watery green coolant, slightly bubbly. I revved the engine a little, more coolant squirted into the bottle via the inlet tube.
Of course I damn well forgot the tests or tell-tale signs of slipped liners I've read a 1000 times :(... but I put my palm over the top of the bottle as I revved the engine, which resulted in pressure pushing on my palm as revs rose and vacuum when revs dropped... does that mean anything? Or simply the water pump doing its job.
EAS was in off-road height setting when I arrived, very stubborn about lowering. Height button lock was not on, foot off brake, doors etc closed. Bookmark symbol on climate control screen, later disappeared. Couldn't get the trip computer to cycle through by pressing the 'i' button on the left stalk.
Owner has fitted new radiator, o-seals and blend motors and new EAS compressor, valve block and ECU.
The car drove well - didn't drive it far though. Let it idle when I got back and oil smoke started to rise from the rear of the block - leaking valley gasket?
The car was washed and lacquered to an inch of its life and looked in the main very good. I want to make an offer, but part of me thinks it will be a world of pain...:(

[redandy3575]

Went to see an 01 HSE today. Really very tidy cosmetically, but I think it has a few problems. I remember reading here about likely slipped liner symptoms, but failed to find the threads aft a search.
The engine was warm when I arrived. Before starting it,, the coolant overflow bottle was empty. Engine oil looked ok and underside of oil filler cap dry.
Engine fired up, quiet and smooth. -PAMJ- vin number, high comp I think?
The coolant overflow stayed empty. I slowly released the cap and some coolant started to trickle in via the small inlet pipe. Very watery green coolant, slightly bubbly. I revved the engine a little, more coolant squirted into the bottle via the inlet tube.
Of course I damn well forgot the tests or tell-tale signs of slipped liners I've read a 1000 times :(... but I put my palm over the top of the bottle as I revved the engine, which resulted in pressure pushing on my palm as revs rose and vacuum when revs dropped... does that mean anything? Or simply the water pump doing its job.
EAS was in off-road height setting when I arrived, very stubborn about lowering. Height button lock was not on, foot off brake, doors etc closed. Bookmark symbol on climate control screen, later disappeared. Couldn't get the trip computer to cycle through by pressing the 'i' button on the left stalk.
Owner has fitted new radiator, o-seals and blend motors and new EAS compressor, valve block and ECU.
The car drove well - didn't drive it far though. Let it idle when I got back and oil smoke started to rise from the rear of the block - leaking valley gasket?
The car was washed and lacquered to an inch of its life and looked in the main very good. I want to make an offer, but part of me thinks it will be a world of pain...:(

What was he asking for it?

[4X4V8]

About $8.5k. Too much with the problems it has. I think the radiator may have blown with a pressurised cooling system thanks to slipped liners. I don't know for sure, but if it is, I don't have another $8-10k for an engine re-build.

[Keithy P38]

Perhaps topping up the coolant prior to starting would have been a good idea... Was the owner aware of it?

Did it run very smooth and quiet?

Was there any water spits or steam from the exhaust pipe?

Is this the eBay one in Sydney with 165,000km on it?

Cheers
Keithy

[poleonpom]

Sounds like it could have a lot of issues. Low/no coolant, pressure and bubbles doesn't sound good. Smoke from the valley gasket is a big his job to replace too. 8.5 for a car with the potential problems this car may have is a bit of a gamble. If your set on it, why not ask the owner if he will agree a price based on a mechanics report?

[PeterH]

Possibly a blown head gasket, you would need to fill the coolant up when cold or at least not hot and check for bubbles entering the overflow tank from the bottom front.
As Keithy already suggested, did it idle ok, or was there a slight miss?
Any steam or water spits from the exhaust?
If he has done the blend motors, it might just need the faults cleared to get rid of the book symbol. You can do that yourself if you have a faultmate or similar.
Have a look at the drivers side carpet where it goes up from the floor towards the dash, any signs of coolant or damp carpet there? That would indicate hearter o rings leaking and might explain the coolant loss.
If it's a really nice looking rig, you may want to take it on and sort the issues yourself...at least that way you know what's been done to it!
Otherwise give that one a miss and keep looking.

[wayneg]

From your explanation it does not necessarily point to any problems apart from lowish coolant.
I would top it up to the correct level and let it tickover until you are happy the engine is up to temp and the system has pressurised completely, check the top hose has gone hard. If no dramas then take the car for a good run, find some long hills and give it some wellie. If the temp gauge stays put in the middle stop the car and have a look to see if you can see small coolant leaks anywhere. Check around the water pump and the throttle body heater. The coolant level will rise when hot, thats normal.
You need to check the engine not vin number for compression ratio, 59d low, 60d high

[4X4V8]

From your explanation it does not necessarily point to any problems apart from lowish coolant.
I would top it up to the correct level and let it tickover until you are happy the engine is up to temp and the system has pressurised completely, check the top hose has gone hard. If no dramas then take the car for a good run, find some long hills and give it some wellie. If the temp gauge stays put in the middle stop the car and have a look to see if you can see small coolant leaks anywhere. Check around the water pump and the throttle body heater. The coolant level will rise when hot, thats normal.
You need to check the engine not vin number for compression ratio, 59d low, 60d high

Thanks, that gives me the confidence to go look again, with a bit more knowledge of what to look for. We'll see what happens...

[Psimpson7]

I would also make sure it is stone cold when you get there.

Low water level also points to a not very good owner imo. What else have they not done / covered up etc.

To be honest however if you have any doubts which you appear to have, I would walk away. There is every chance it will be a total money pit.

[wayneg]

Thanks, that gives me the confidence to go look again, with a bit more knowledge of what to look for. We'll see what happens...


My car has a coolant issue at the moment, only found out after a long drive the expansion tank and or cap is faulty and when the car gets up to temp a small amount of evaporation occurs. I have a low coolant alarm which lets me know. The low coolant issue on the car you are looking at could be as simple as a faulty cap. Thats why I said make sure its pressurising and holds the pressure, mine does not. I can hear the pressure hissing away if I turn the engine off and listen hard at the cap. New Tank and cap on the way for me.

[Scouse]

I would also make sure it is stone cold when you get there.

Usually the first indication of a slipped liner is a misfire on cold starts so look out for that.

[goanna_shire]

Conversations like this make me scared to purchase a p38. They are relatively cheap for what you get but it seems like a bloody money trap. I'm not keen on spending the buying price again on a vehicle because it can't keep itself together for 200,000 k's. Seems like the radiator hoses don't last more than 150,000 k's.

Brian.

[Scouse]

Seems like the radiator hoses don't last more than 150,000 k's. I don't think I would trust any radiator hoses, P38 or not, at 150000km.

[4X4V8]

Conversations like this make me scared to purchase a p38. They are relatively cheap for what you get but it seems like a bloody money trap. I'm not keen on spending the buying price again on a vehicle because it can't keep itself together for 200,000 k's. Seems like the radiator hoses don't last more than 150,000 k's.

Brian.


I would rebuild the engine myself if it happened to me. I have never rebuilt one, mind, but there is one way to learn...

At least the P38 engine can be re-built. If the D3 TDV6 goes, it's $25k for a new one. Jeep Gr Cherokees also seem to blow the 4.7V8 fairly regularly, don't know why.

[TheTree]

HI

I came across an insteresting artcile today ...

"The arrival in May 1995 of the first new Range Rover in 25 years left many underwhelmed after the long wait delivered a more conservative design. Yet bling-loaded, porkier replacements have since highlighted its timeless and restrained appointments and looks, fine balance between size and function and the authentic Land Rover offroad heritage before BMW or Ford were involved." :D:D

Buyer's Guide: 1995-02 Range Rover P38 S/SE/HSE-News & Reviews-Unique Cars (http://www.uniquecarsmag.com.au/news-and-reviews/article/articleid/74101.aspx)

Steve

[Keithy P38]

I call chicken ;-)

People only seem to read bad reviews on P38's. Most are due to poor service history, others are because people only seem to speak up when something goes wrong.

Hands up how many people here have been stranded out bush/away from home in their P38??

Mine has always got me home - except last year when my crank pos sensor died 500m from home. A sensor that after 14 years of service had finally given up the ghost!

Some things are worth waiting for, if you dwell on niggly things you may well miss the best opportunity you'll ever find.

If you are worried, get a pro to check it out!

Don't let a bargain slip though...

Cheers
Keithy

[DiscoDB]

The other big decider for me would be if you are ok to repair and maintain yourself or if you will be dependent on others.

[landy]

There are too many 'combat indicaters' going on here. Engine warm when you arrived. Warning lights/indicators that appear and disappear. EAS that won't play the game. Smoke from the rear of the engine.
I'd say you already have made up your mind you are just looking for reasons not to let a bargain slip away! But is it really a bargain?
And lastly, and only in my opinion. Learning to build your first engine in your "new" car is a recipe for disappointment.
Walk away, there are a market full of P38s

Cheers, and good luck.

[TheTree]

HI

I waited for six months looking for what I wanted and so far it's been a good investment.

I expected that it was going to cost a few thousand and take a year or two to really go through the vehicle.

It really depends what you want from a P38 :cool:

Steve

[4X4V8]

HI

I waited for six months looking for what I wanted and so far it's been a good investment.

I expected that it was going to cost a few thousand and take a year or two to really go through the vehicle.

It really depends what you want from a P38 :cool:

Steve

All the EAS and fiddly small stuff wrong with it I look in as a challenge... The prospect of an engine re-build before even buying it, if that's what it needs, is another matter. I'll have another look but my gut feeling is that this particular car is not everything it appears to be.

[Nomad9]

Hi There,
I agree with your comments, I bought my P38 about three months ago now, roof needs a bit of paint, the rest looks good, suspension block needed a rebuild which I have done, recond the EAS compressor, replaced a dodgy radio, interior was very neat, had service history up until three years ago, steering had been overhauled, air bags replaced and 220k on the clock, paid $5k for it. If the engine had the issues you talk about it possibly having for $8.5k I would be walking I think. When I arrived for my test drive and to pick the vehicle up the engine was hot on both occasions, based on what I know now I am assuming the guy was trying to hide the valve block and EAS compressor issues, the engine transmission and the rest of the vehicle for me and what I paid was great.

Oh and the door locks and the remote are now proving a challenge, something I have to post about..........:)

[Keithy P38]

You definitely need that engine to be cold when you get there! Tell the seller not to start it. If it's warm, get back in your car and drive away.

[davidsonsm]

Also, with respect to the cold aspect. You want to see how the car has settled on its suspension over night. And how long the compressor pump runs for and how long it takes the car.to get to standard height. The.height settling should be quick on a healthy system.

[4X4V8]

Also, with respect to the cold aspect. You want to see how the car has settled on its suspension over night. And how long the compressor pump runs for and how long it takes the car.to get to standard height. The.height settling should be quick on a healthy system.

The air compressor or something in under its cover was ticking away when I had the bonnet open. Not sure what that was about. When I sat in the car playing with the height settings, it flashed the light to say it was lowering to the next setting but didn't seem to move. I may have had my foot on the brake though. When I drove it it eventually lowered to the std setting. I tried access mode when stopped but I gave up. It just didn't seem to respond, and I have driven lots of LR products with air suspension.
Thanks very much everyone for chipping in on this thread. I have a much clearer idea of what I need to do next time I see the car.

[davidsonsm]

Where is the car. I'm sure some helpful P38 owner would gladly give you a 2nd opinion.

[olbod]

[QUOTE=4X4V8;2166836]The air compressor or something in under its cover was ticking away when I had the bonnet open. Not sure what that was about.

I have noticed that a couple of times with The Bitch when I opened the bonett to check the tank pressue guage.
Any one know what gives ?

[wayneg]

EAS Valve block Solenoids clicking away

[TheTree]

[QUOTE=4X4V8;2166836]The air compressor or something in under its cover was ticking away when I had the bonnet open. Not sure what that was about.

I have noticed that a couple of times with The Bitch when I opened the bonett to check the tank pressue guage.
Any one know what gives ?

Hi

It's just the self leveling voodoo going on, you will notice the same noises when you stop the car, get out and close the door

Steve

[4X4V8]

After all that, it sold just before I was to go look at it again this morning. So I'll never know if it just needed a coolant top-up or it had a crack in the block and slipped liners or something in between.

The car sold for $8250, which I thought was a fair price if the engine was not gone (slipped liners). Even though it was generally really good condition, it was leaking oil at the back of the engine, the roof lining was sagging, trip comp didn't work, the EAS was playing up and there was a fair-sized dent on the right rear wheel arch. That was what I found in a 10-15 minute inspection - so who knows what else was wrong with it. Oh, and zero history with it.

It gave me hope in that I might still be able to buy a nice-looking P38. If I was going to buy it, it would have only held appeal if it was $5k with the knowledge I may have to go source a new engine. If it already had a top-hatted engine, I would've paid a lot more...

[DiscoDB]

Will be interesting to see if the new owner ends up here asking for tips and advice!

[redandy3575]

I'm pretty sure they had that one advertised on carsales.

I reckon a wrecker bought it, as there is money to be made.