Common sense strikes! P platers in Vic to be allowed to drive V8's

[Homestar]

The Victorian State Government have just announced that from July 1st this year the old P Plate laws banning them from driving all V8's, petrol powered turbo and supercharged vehicles will be scrapped in favour of a straight power to weight ratio based system.

That will allow my young bloke to be able to drive the RRC and the 101 (if I let him) once he gets his licence. I'm sure it will help out heaps of family's everywhere. Can't remember the last time something this sensible happened... :D

I'm really happy they have looked at this and have done something about it.

Haven't seen the exact laws but I may even be able to screw a small turbo onto the Series 3 for him now so he can keep up with the traffic.:)

[Homestar]

Just found the figure - 130KW per tonne.

[rovercare]

Merry go round, back to the start

[DeanoH]

Can't see it happening Babs, far too sensible. And if it has to get through our joke of a parliament ................................. well, don't hold your breath. ;)


Deano :)

[simmo]

Good idea the old idea of V8 restriction was silly when there was 2 liter turbo fours in small cars with 150 Kw /ton or more. For my money 130 kw /ton, is still too much, 75-80 kw /ton is plenty. I've never had a car with more power than than in my life. ( my 265 gle had about 130 kw and weighed about 1700 kilos but could still do 200 kms+ /hour) . A normal sedan weights between 1500 -1800 kg, so we're saying it's ok for young people to drive a 200 kw car? Not so long ago a sedan with 200 kw was a "supercar". A new Camry has 133kw and weighs 1500 kgs, less than 100 kw/ton. Anything with a higher P/W that that is excessive for young drivers. I had friends in the country that had very powerful cars as young men who are now dead, some of my friends children are now dead. The power full car is not the only factor, but its big one. better to let them learn how to drive a gutless car so they learn how to get he most out of a car, and focus on braking and steering. My view is we don't need cars with over 200 kw , we have a 110 km/hr speed limit for most of the country.

[Homestar]

Deano - it's already passed. Comes into effect July 1. There is mention of it on the Vicroads website with a link to the Media release. I'm on my phone ATM so a bit fiddly to link it.

[Homestar]

Well, I've just found the catch. Should have known it was too good to be true. Scrub what I said about the old Rangie and 101 being allowed - the new rules only apply to vehicles manufactured after 2010. Old rules apply to anything earlier.

[discovery39]

Hmmm, I smell a state election coming.............

[bee utey]

For the google-shy...

Herald Sun article link (http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/victoria/pplaters-get-green-light-to-drive-some-v8s-and-supercharged-cars-from-july-1/story-fni0fit3-1226956590896)

[rangietragic]

Similar thing coming in QLD,but it only applies to vehicles built after 2010:mad:so p platers still won't be able to drive neck snapping classics or discos,:mad:

[S3ute]

Hello from Brisbane.

Queensland did have similar 'high performance vehicle' rules which basically precluded P-platers from driving sensible vehicles. This largely applied to V8s and anything with a petrol engine that had a supercharger of turbochargers - with two basic and specific exemptions - a Daihatsu something or other and I forget what the other sewing machine was. So, in effect, my Volvo wagon (2.5 litre motor) and Mrs S3ute's Golf (1.4 litre motor) were off limits to both the S3ute juniors when they first got their P plates. Paradoxically, turbo diesels of any power were exempt and so they could have driven my late father-in-law's Landcruiser wagon........ Or a diesel Golf or Polo for that matter.

So, you couldn't legally buy your P-plate daughter a petrol Golf, Polo etc etc (well you could, but she couldn't drive it legally).

You could seek exemptions on the basis of employment needs etc etc, but the rules were pretty rigid and rarely given to kids just to drive their parents' cars.

I arced about it many times with the Transport Dept, Minister for Transport, Volvo, VW Australia and so on with little effect - until they did change the rules a couple of years back.

Now you can apply for the exemption subject to proving that the car is under a certain power to weight ratio - proven in our case by attaching copies of the original sales brochures downloaded from the web with the manufacturers' weight and engine power ratings for the specific model.

The catch is that this is not a blanket exemption - you have to apply to drive a specific car (registration number) and pay a $60 annual fee plus carry the official exemption note from Queensland Transport at all time while driving the exempted vehicle. or example, if my brother had an identical car, they couldn't legally drive it without it also being named on the exemption notice. Common sense might have dictated that they simply revoke the original section of the Act and nominate the vehicles that don't comply.

Anyway, the S3ute juniors do drive our two 'dangerous cars' for the inexperienced and for that I am happy.

Cheers,

[rovercare]

Well, I've just found the catch. Should have known it was too good to be true. Scrub what I said about the old Rangie and 101 being allowed - the new rules only apply to vehicles manufactured after 2010. Old rules apply to anything earlier.


Well, what's the old English chestnut

"The power of the Rover V8"

*snigger*:D

[Aaron IIA]

130kw/t is about four times the power to weight ratio of my car. Still to high a limit in my opinion.
Aaron

[Bigbjorn]

That is only 175 hp per ton. Jesus, I have had cars with more than twice that. Mind you, when I was a teenager and drove old cheap cars I had cars with 40 hp per ton which would only do 70 mph downhill with a tailwind. My recollection is that any driving approaching dangerous was done in the latter as one had to drive the bum off them to get anywhere. Example - impossible to drive Brisbane to Sydney in twelve hours in an Austin A40 driven flat out but achieved comfortably in a Dodge of similar vintage.

[S3ute]

Hello again.

Perhaps the Qld legislation might be about to change again - no longer relevant to the S3 household, anyway, as the S3juniors have either moved off P-plates or have the previous mentioned power to weight exemptions.

The after 2010 bit didn't apply when the exemptions were granted, as our two petrol turbo or turbo/supercharged cars are respectively 2006 and 2009 year of manufacture models.

As for dangerous or not, if anyone really thinks a Volvo XC70 or TSI Golf is significantly more dangerous than the 16 year old Laser they were previously forced to drive, then it might be time to re-mandate the carrying of flags and bells before the oncoming horseless carriage - parp, parp.......

Cheers,

[Tombie]

Teach ****ing responsibility...

My youth was spent piloting vehicles all making well in excess of 400bhp.

I'm sorry, my solution - stricter penalties for ****ing up! Including "go directly to gaol, do not pass go, and your vehicle is being crushed"

[AndyG]

Did something happen in 2010, like ABS becoming mandatory ?

[Homestar]

Did something happen in 2010, like ABS becoming mandatory ?

That's the date the Government started collecting power and weight figures for vechicles. They claim no data is available from the manufacturers before this date...

[S3ute]

That's the date the Government started collecting power and weight figures for vechicles. They claim no data is available from the manufacturers before this date...

That's odd. Must be the tropical sun and heat up here.

For the Qld P-plate exemption that I mentioned previously, both S3ute juniors' successful exemption applications were accompanied by nothing more than photocopies of the relevant weight and power figures for the specific model and engine capacity taken straight from the two manufacturers' sales brochures. These were actually downloaded from the web.

Divide one by the other and you have it.

Presumably the Queensland Transport arbitrators accepted that the manufacturers actually knew the power and weight of their cars.....

Cheers,

[Roverlord off road spares]

Similar thing coming in QLD,but it only applies to vehicles built after 2010:mad:so p platers still won't be able to drive neck snapping classics or discos,:mad:
But are they able to fish tail and slam into poles with 5.0litre dunnydore utes from 2010 onwards?

[loanrangie]

All the safety features in the world wont stop some kid in a powerful vehicle wrapping them self around a pole, i disagree with the law change but think they need to be common sense.
A Landy V8 is never gonna set the speed record nor is a V8 Patrol or other large heavy vehicle.
And who is this moron stating that some young drivers need to drive a V8 for their job, what some cashed up bogan dunny diver that has a Maloo ute tax right off ?

[Mick_Marsh]

That's the date the Government started collecting power and weight figures for vechicles. They claim no data is available from the manufacturers before this date...
I know the power and weight of my HSV enhanced V8 weapon.
Oh dear! 115kW/t

[SLOWBOAT]

It has never had anything to do with power to weight ratios it has always how far you push the right pedal or twist the right hand (for bikes) and driving for the conditions. This is what has always been the issue. If you teach people to just pass a test that in most cases is irrelevant to actual real life driving then you will have stupid things occur on our roads.

[DoubleChevron]

But are they able to fish tail and slam into poles with 5.0litre dunnydore utes from 2010 onwards?

That would be easily fix if bloody holden hadn't fitted 14" cheese cutters to the back of every V8 ute they sold .... and 20" wheels to the front :confused: :eek: :wasntme:

[UncleHo]

One of the reasons for a few of the bad smashes is the trend for low profile tyres 50 series etc. good on US & EU concrete highways but lethal on wet hotmix bitumen and corrugated dirt roads,and as stated before,drivers only being able to pass a written test and in Qld 100 hrs before going for red "P"s they should have to do an advanced drivers course after 12 months IMHO.

[benji]

I think in regards to this, you should be allowed any vehicle if you can prove that it's below a certain kw/tonne.

Now wouldn't that be simple. .....



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[SuperMono]

The circle continues........

The original VIC system for restricted vehicles was based on power to weight.
Apparently that was too hard to police, so the blanket, 'no V8, no Turbo' was introduced.

Then it was realised that some 6 cylinders were wicked and would cause P platers to crash into school buses, so a list of banned high performance 6s was produced.
Then it was realised that some small turbo vehicles were so slow they couldn't keep up with the school bus, so manufacturers could apply for exemptions.
Oh... what about Turbo Diesels?, OK, they are allowed... except for the V8s, oh and some of those Turbo 6s seem to be a bit fast.....

Apparently, this was too hard to police, so now we can have a power to weight based system.

Ahh.. the logic of it all.

However, has anyone happened to bring up the subject of Torque and how that actually makes a car accelerate.......

Most of the teenagers I know would be fairly happy with any reliable car they were given, I don't think that many care what it is anymore.

[AndyG]

[QUOTE=benji;2167167]I think in regards to this, you should be allowed any vehicle if you can prove that it's below a certain kw/tonne.

Now wouldn't that be simple. .....

I've always wanted to drive a road train!
But I agree with your sentiment.

I wonder how wheels managed to record weight & Kw for all these years, and too hard for theGovt. Surely it's part of the VIN /ADR process