Gate Access Questions

[ThorneGator]

I'm not an Australian native, and so thought to ask those of whom have been here longer than I.....
Regarding traveling over tracks with gates, what is the law/ common courtesy regarding access. If the gate is closed but not locked are you able to travel through (leaving it how you found it)?
Are only certain gates allowed to be driven through, public vs private land, etc....?
Despite a big sign that might say, "Private Property No Trespassing" how do you know if it can be accessed?
For example, can you drive through a gate on private property to get to public land on the other side?

Thank you,

[bushrover]

I'm not an Australian native, and so thought to ask those of whom have been here longer than I.....
Regarding traveling over tracks with gates, what is the law/ common courtesy regarding access. If the gate is closed but not locked are you able to travel through (leaving it how you found it)? No, not necessarily. Public gazetted road yes, private, no.
Are only certain gates allowed to be driven through, public vs private land, etc....? Public gazetted roads yes, private, no.
Despite a big sign that might say, "Private Property No Trespassing" how do you know if it can be accessed? You usually don't.Locked public gazetted road gates or big signs usually mean the property owner has been peed off by people accessing private property they shouldn't, or it could mean the owner of the private property on either side of the road is just being unreasonable.
For example, can you drive through a gate on private property to get to public land on the other side? No, there will nearly always be a legal access. The alternative if there is no legal access is to ask the private property owner for permission.

Thank you,

There are plenty of exceptions, one being for holders of Prospecting Licenses in WA, but there are still rules to abide by.

There have been cases where private property owners, as a gesture of kindness, have granted permission for certain people to access other property across private land. The unfortunate private land owner has then been taken to court and the access deemed to be an easement and legal access to the other property.

Around here there are plenty of Station owners who have legally locked gates because of idiots doing the wrong thing on Pastoral lease land.

And a road on a map doesn't mean it is a public road.

Bottom line, if in doubt do the right thing and seek permission.

Rick

[ThorneGator]

There are plenty of exceptions, one being for holders of Prospecting Licenses in WA, but there are still rules to abide by.

There have been cases where private property owners, as a gesture of kindness, have granted permission for certain people to access other property across private land. The unfortunate private land owner has then been taken to court and the access deemed to be an easement and legal access to the other property.

Around here there are plenty of Station owners who have legally locked gates because of idiots doing the wrong thing on Pastoral lease land.

And a road on a map doesn't mean it is a public road.

Bottom line, if in doubt do the right thing and seek permission.

Rick

Thanks you Rick,
I appreciate the advice. One last question then regarding seeking permission.... To seek permission from the land owner, should I drive onto their property to their house and knock on front door. Just want to make sure I am being considerate, and not assuming something incorrectly.

Thanks

[Basil135]

Essentially, if in doubt - ask a local. Even if it is at the pub, someone there will probably know.

As for going onto a property to ask permission, then yes, if you are staying on the driveway, and heading to the house, it is fine to drive. In fact, some of those driveways are a bit long, so if you choose to walk it, then pack your lunch.. ;)

Most properties will have some sort of name or number or other marking at the main entrance. If you stay on the road to the house, you should be fine.


But the one universal rule is - leave all gates as you find them. And, if you come across a locked gate, then find another way around.

[JDNSW]

It depends on the circumstances. As a general rule, it is OK to drive from the boundary gate by the most direct route to the house to see the occupier, for whatever reason. However, you need to take into account the fact that there maybe nobody at the house, or indeed on the property at the time you arrive.

In this case, an occupier returning home and finding strange tracks may be concerned, particularly if something seems to be missing, and he is likely to report to police. You may have been seen, perhaps from a distance or by a neighbour, or, in today's climate of often unreasonable fear and suspicion, you may have been the subject of a surveillance camera, and hence easily identified.

It is generally best to do a bit of advance planning, find out who owns the land you are planning to cross, and phone ahead.

As mentioned above, however, just because there is a gate does not necessarily mean that it is not a public road - seek local knowledge if possible!

And always leave gates the way they were - if it is open, it will almost certainly be for a reason, similarly if shut.

John

[Xtreme]

Also, if permission is granted to enter or cross private land, the exchange of a bottle of red goes a long way to cementing your newly established relationship and makes future permission easier.
Have also substituted a tray of mangoes or similar for the non drinker and if spending time on the property, there are always a few jobs that need doing around the place as another means of showing your gratitude.
Any of the above have a more lasting impact than a simple verbal 'thank you'.

[bushrover]

Also, if permission is granted to enter or cross private land, the exchange of a bottle of red goes a long way to cementing your newly established relationship and makes future permission easier.
Have also substituted a tray of mangoes or similar for the non drinker and if spending time on the property, there are always a few jobs that need doing around the place as another means of showing your gratitude.
Any of the above have a more lasting impact than a simple verbal 'thank you'.

Good advice from others here in answer to your question.

For me as a minimum, I will try to get a phone number and call ahead. A hand shake and face to face meeting goes a long way and as suggested a small gift will open more than locked gates. You can always offer to deliver the latest magazines, news papers, even tractor parts. Small gestures in the country go a very long way and be prepared to spend an hour having a cup of tea and home made cake.

Rick

[Saitch]

Around my way there are several public roads that have been gated & or signed with "Private Property" by adjoining land owners & while not quite legal, it's been done for a reason & best to leave a sleeping dog lie.
Steve

[THE BOOGER]

Around my way there are several public roads that have been gated & or signed with "Private Property" by adjoining land owners & while not quite legal, it's been done for a reason & best to leave a sleeping dog lie.
Steve

Unfortunately that is happening more often some times with good reason but more often new owners don't know about the public access or just don't care particularly city owners who think city not country regards roads and gates (city people lock every thing) :(

so
ask a local
always leave gates as found
thank owners (little bit of graft is ok)
and you should be fine:)

[Toxic_Avenger]

How does one find a public gazetted road?
I've got topographical maps which show a road as having a gate, but upon reaching it, full of signs with 'trespassers prosecuted', 'if you can read this, you are within range', and 'cross this line, and be the next one to be prosecuted'. Furthermore the road appears to be a valid road between 2 small villages.

Confusion abounds.

[S3ute]

How does one find a public gazetted road?
..

Shouldn't be any confusion - the road is either gazetted or it isn't.

The relevant Lands Department will have the record.

Travelling stock routes and roads to water reserves are another issue - probably best checked with the local Shire office or PP Board.

We had gazetted but unused "roads" through two of our properties in NSW which were left to us to maintain 100% - sorry to have to say it, but damage from 4WDS and trail bikes, weekend shooters etc were a genuine pain.

Cheers,

[Toxic_Avenger]

Shouldn't be any confusion - the road is either gazetted or it isn't.

The relevant Lands Department will have the records

...which brings me back to the root of my conundrum.
I was looking at a topographic map which was drawn by the australian government cartographers. So 'gazetted' can be construed in a number of ways.

[UncleHo]

In some of the areas around your location could well be that locked gates are put up by a those gardening types that specialise in plants that look like tomatoes :angel:

[JDNSW]

In some of the areas around your location could well be that locked gates are put up by a those gardening types that specialise in plants that look like tomatoes :angel:

And who may get very unfriendly if disturbed unexpectedly!

John

[S3ute]

. So 'gazetted' can be construed in a number of ways.

Not really - a road is officially gazetted as a public thoroughfare or not even if there is no physical sign of the thing and it does or doesn't appear on a map - but forget the maps, they date. Plus the map scale is relevent, change the scale (1:100,000 cf 1:250,000) and some roads fall off a map........... Also, the gazeted roads on our farm didn't appear on your typical topo map. Or even if they did, once they were freeholded and ungazetted they might still be appearing on an older map.

If in doubt ask Lands - they gazette the roads, or remove them if they are freeholded etc.

Cheers,

[THE BOOGER]

How does one find a public gazetted road?
I've got topographical maps which show a road as having a gate, but upon reaching it, full of signs with 'trespassers prosecuted', 'if you can read this, you are within range', and 'cross this line, and be the next one to be prosecuted'. Furthermore the road appears to be a valid road between 2 small villages.

Confusion abounds.

No Trespassing signs have no standing a NSW court we don't have trespass laws the act concerned is

http://www.legislation.nsw.gov.au/inforcepdf/1901-33.pdf?id=03ed2a9d-e3a9-e562-ac16-cd2aa066614e
a definition of a road is in the act.

Signs that imply you will be shot and I seen some too can get a persons fire arms lic cancelled on the spot :o

[Toxic_Avenger]

Cheers Booger!
It's always best to go back to first principles when it comes to this.
I never knew any action / claims against a individual had to be settled within 2 months, and that a settlement with the claimant direct was considered fine in lieu of a court appearance (if I'm reading that right).

At least its in black and white- for inclosed land, the road is excluded from the land when it passes thru.
I'd think that if you have reasonable cause to be on the road if you can provide proof that you are on a prescribed road (ie map, GPS etc). Assuming you don't leave that road, and don't fool around, then claiming innocence would probably get you out of 99% of confrontations.
Worst case, you'd be stung for max 5 penalty units at $170 per unit ($850)
Fine for giving a false name / address is $85 :twisted:

[101RRS]

No Trespassing signs have no standing a NSW court we don't have trespass laws the act concerned is

Not quite true - I have been charged with wilful trespass in NSW but was not convicted on a technicality (the court could not work out which property I was on) but did have to pay court costs.

[Toxic_Avenger]

Not quite true - I have been charged with wilful trespass in NSW but was not convicted on a technicality (the court could not work out which property I was on) but did have to pay court costs.

What did you do? Cut the lock off a gate, then flip the bird to the property owner?
Would be interesting to know how willful trespassing is worked out, especially if you have reason to believe that you are not trespassing.

Then again, if we're talking about cutting thru razor wire fences, or other obvious acts, I guess its a whole different story.

[clubagreenie]

My rule of thumb when I was travelling out west was, drop into the local police station or post office or pub. They'll know everyone and the roads, maybe even a phone number. Then still drive in by the main access rd (usually from the mailbox) to the station house and ask. Say where you're headed and if you can access it, where stock is etc. If refused ask which way they'd prefer you to leave as well, there may be a shorter way or avoiding stock. There are still people I met back in the early 80's that I speak to and travel to meet and even assist is major annual operations (large musters, shearing etc).

[Toxic_Avenger]

My rule of thumb when I was travelling out west was, drop into the local police station or post office or pub. They'll know everyone and the roads, maybe even a phone number. Then still drive in by the main access rd (usually from the mailbox) to the station house and ask. Say where you're headed and if you can access it, where stock is etc. If refused ask which way they'd prefer you to leave as well, there may be a shorter way or avoiding stock. There are still people I met back in the early 80's that I speak to and travel to meet and even assist is major annual operations (large musters, shearing etc).

In my little explorations here in the north west of nsw, I'll always get a wave from the farmers - even when not on a private road.
Al Capone said "you can go a long way with a smile". The rest of that quotation doesn't apply ;-)
Courtesy goes a long way.

[THE BOOGER]

Not quite true - I have been charged with wilful trespass in NSW but was not convicted on a technicality (the court could not work out which property I was on) but did have to pay court costs.

I would have to talk to you about that one but in NSW the correct charge would be "Unlawfull entry upon inclosed land"

[AnD3rew]

It's a good question, I've found HEMA maps can lead you astray by being too comprehensive at times. A while ago I was trying to get from Lightning Ridge to the Grawin opal field and there looks to be a tempting fairly direct 4wd route. So I set off and after about half an hour of driving on tracks through paddocks etc I come to a grid with no gate but a large private property no trespassing sign. It was a LOT further to go all the way back to the beginning and go around but I erred on the side of caution and did it cursing HEMA all the way.