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View Full Version : Interesting recovery aid or yet another recovery tool gathering dust?



FeatherWeightDriver
27th June 2014, 02:43 PM
Hi all,

I stumbled on this in my travels on the internet and though it was interesting, although maybe some back of a beer coaster calculations would be in order to make sure the loading of the line and/or device are within limits.

How much use it might get is another story...

Hi-Roller Recovery | When you pull up, you get out! (http://www.hirollerrecovery.com/)

Hi-Roller Recovery - UP and OVER - YouTube

Gerokent
27th June 2014, 02:50 PM
Essential bit of kit :D

rrturboD
27th June 2014, 02:55 PM
Imagine all the recovery gear we would need if we 'bought a jeep'!

simmo
27th June 2014, 05:29 PM
looks like more ballast to me :D

simmo
27th June 2014, 05:35 PM
The guy in the jeep could have engaged Low 1st and helped the winch, the car would have gone up ok, or gone up the step diagonally, rather then at 90 degrees. but he is a jeep driver I guess;)

chopper
27th June 2014, 05:53 PM
The guy in the jeep could have engaged Low 1st and helped the winch, the car would have gone up ok, or gone up the step diagonally, rather then at 90 degrees. but he is a jeep driver I guess;)

If he went up diagonally , he wouldn't be demonstrating the tool then would he. It obviously multiplies the power available , some sort of a vector type thingy going on. A bit like a vehicle hanging on a mild slop on a cable and you lift the cable or stand on it and the vehicle creeps forward whereas if you got behind it and tried to push you would get nowhere.
Don't get to excited over the Jeep , you might miss the lesson.

benji
27th June 2014, 06:33 PM
I understand it's a demo video. .. but what's wrong with putting a few logs, or building a sand ramp. .. Your still limited by the approach angle of the car.

You can also use your spare tire to do the same thing.

Sent from my GT-I9305T using AULRO mobile app

jon
27th June 2014, 06:39 PM
He s only half out
How did he get his new gizzmo to lift the back out:D

Barefoot Dave
27th June 2014, 06:41 PM
Another point of failure in the roller and a sharp redirection on the cable, a BIG stressor on the cable.

Great bare hands on SWR ans stepping over the cable.. Awesome.;-)

Greatsouthernland
27th June 2014, 10:03 PM
If you don't have the 'gizmo pulley on highlift jacks' thing, you could park another jeep perpendicular to your direction of pull, and run the cable over the jeep's bonnet...but this may devalue the cable and is not recommended if you want to protect said cable.

:wasntme:

slug_burner
28th June 2014, 03:21 AM
Another point of failure in the roller and a sharp redirection on the cable, a BIG stressor on the cable.

Great bare hands on SWR ans stepping over the cable.. Awesome.;-)

Any more stress on the cable than when using a block?


The kit is something you could work around, like a land anchor it is quick to use if you're in a competition but for the average person you could work out ways to get the recovery done without it.

123rover50
28th June 2014, 05:49 AM
The guy in the jeep could have engaged Low 1st and helped the winch, the car would have gone up ok, or gone up the step diagonally, rather then at 90 degrees. but he is a jeep driver I guess;)

I think he did.
The RH rear wheel was turning anyway.
I cant think of a situation where 10 minutes of work with a pick and a bit of road building would not have achieved the same result.

Greatsouthernland
28th June 2014, 09:34 AM
I think he did.
The RH rear wheel was turning anyway.
I cant think of a situation where 10 minutes of work with a pick and a bit of road building would not have achieved the same result.

Yes true.

But...what if it was a concrete box culvert, and you didn't bring your jackhammer :D AND there had been a flood so the culvert and surrounds were void of any logs, sticks and mud :D. ... :confused: THEN this little beauty would be just what you needed to lift you up and over the square edge of the box culvert...

I'm gonna wait until the Bear Grylls authentic version is stocked at Ray's or BCF before I get one.
.

Barefoot Dave
28th June 2014, 10:00 AM
Any more stress on the cable than when using a block]
Yes, about 3-4 times. Roller radiusis 1/2-1/3 that of a block and the contact patch is only about 1/10th of a block. So all or the weight is concentrated on a much smaller radius multiplying the forces by an order of magnitude.

I agree that in THIS particular demonstration it is effective, but all of us know that you need a 6x6 mack following to have all of these well thought out but limited devices just in case.
A couple of bridging ladders will help just as much and be far more useful.
With all of these Gucci bits of equipment, I can't help but wonder how Len Beadell, the LRD patrols and we RFSU patrols did what we could.
Oh, wait. I remember now.
Reading a map and plotting a route, reading the terrain to avoid most issues, choosing an alternate route if needed, doing a little shifting of rocks and lastly a calm head and a good line.
If you want the ability to go anywhere without slowing down much get a helicopter or a Mog.

ck?[/I]

chopper
28th June 2014, 10:28 AM
Any more stress on the cable than when using a block]
Yes, about 3-4 times. Roller radiusis 1/2-1/3 that of a block and the contact patch is only about 1/10th of a block. So all or the weight is concentrated on a much smaller radius multiplying the forces by an order of magnitude.


ck?[/I]

What is the radius through the eye of the winch hook or the roller on the fairlead or the winch drum down at the first layer ?

Barefoot Dave
28th June 2014, 03:56 PM
Chopper, You are not exactly comparing apples with apples.

What is the radius through the eye of the winch hook
Yes it is MUCH smaller, but the load is effectively static, though there is some movement. Yes it is a smaller diameter, BUT the cable is not moving,which deforms the cable and weakens it.

the roller on the fairlead
Have a look at the angle of the cable over the roller in the video.
Now have a look at the manufacturers guidlines for safe use of your winch. I think that you will find this device is operating at 2-3 X the recommended angle of incidence.

winch drum down at the first layer
If your winch drum is <80mm, then it is trouble waiting to happen.
Roller radius is 1/2-1/3 that of a block and the contact patch is only about 1/10th of a block. So all or the weight is concentrated on a much smaller radius multiplying the forces by an order of magnitude.
Correction: After taking a closer look at their other videos, it appears they are using the same roller as in a snatch block. So, no difference there, just in it's application.
This applies to the winch roller. Larger diameter plus greater support for the cable = the load is spread over a greater area. The same as running lower pressures in you tyres.
Perhaps this is why the manufacturer recommends NOT using the last lay of cable?! Because you have the roller diameter+ 2x the diameter of the cable= >100mm.
Seeing the pattern here?

..It obviously multiplies the power available...
No it isn't. It is a simple redirection of the applied force. The same as using a snatch block in a single line pull to apply force from an angle away from the path of Greatest resistance.

Now, the BIG questions are difficult ones.
Will the lifting of the vehicle and resultant lessening of drag offset the greater load of the redirection?? How does this redirect load compare to a flat plane redirection?
This can only be tested with a strain gauge as it will always be different. Half an hour of physics equations can establish a result in a perfect world but that won't help us, will it?

It comes down to the reccomended safe maximum angle of pull. This device exceeds it and offers a number of complications.
In the video, the front axle makes it over the step and is very close to the device. What do you do then?
The cable is still under load. These blokes don't seem to worry about stuff like that.
How do we stabilise the vehicle while we reset the system?
Solution: chock it up with a few rocks and logs maybe? wait a minute...that rings a bell :twisted:
As Burt Rutan says about Aerodynamics "If it looks right, then it will fly right".
This just doesn't look right.

Slunnie
28th June 2014, 04:15 PM
I like the thinking, but a few rocks or a shovel would have done the trick. A snatch block looks a lot easer to carry also.

chopper
28th June 2014, 04:18 PM
If your winch drum is <80mm, then it is trouble waiting to happen.

Warn 8000lb winch 64mm drum

In the video, the front axle makes it over the step and is very close to the device. What do you do then?

How do we stabilise the vehicle while we reset the system?
Solution: chock it up with a few rocks and logs maybe? wait a minute...that rings a bell

You could use the handbrake, if you think it will roll much , front wheels on a horizontal surface and rear wheels on a horizontal surface , which way will it roll.

Bushie
28th June 2014, 04:20 PM
Pretty sure the older Land Rover "How to 4WD" books had a very similar device usually made from 2 poles.


Martyn

Barefoot Dave
28th June 2014, 04:22 PM
No worries. I choose not to buy or use it.;)

Ratel10mm
28th June 2014, 06:09 PM
I'll admit I haven't watched the vid.
The description however, sparked a memory of seeing a TV program where the proper use of a land anchor was shown. I think it was the Bushman bloke (many apologies, I can't recall his name). Anyway, he ran the cable over one of his spare tyres, to the anchor to achieve better leverage. Seems to me that you usually have a spare tyre, so why carry an extra bit of kit?

AndrewMilne
19th July 2014, 07:39 PM
I didn't see a shovel anywhere in the video.
Looking at the situation shown there, a shovel would be the first thing to try.
I reckon less than 5 minutes work would turn that abrupt bank into a ramp that you could simply drive up.

Rurover
20th July 2014, 09:34 PM
I'll admit I haven't watched the vid.
The description however, sparked a memory of seeing a TV program where the proper use of a land anchor was shown. I think it was the Bushman bloke (many apologies, I can't recall his name).

Would it be Les Hiddins, the ABC "Bush Tucker Man?

Alan

DreamDisco
29th July 2014, 07:49 PM
I understand it's a demo video. .. but what's wrong with putting a few logs, or building a sand ramp. .. Your still limited by the approach angle of the car.

You can also use your spare tire to do the same thing.

Sent from my GT-I9305T using AULRO mobile app


My thoughts exactly!! Perhaps try carrying a shovel? Many more uses!

Kevin B
29th July 2014, 08:27 PM
It could double as a camera tripod to film yourself using before mentioned shovel.

RVR110
29th July 2014, 09:17 PM
Another piece of useless kit. Also, the high roller could topple over if it wasn't properly placed or if it became dislodged, perhaps if the recovery line changed significantly due to the vehicle slipping sideways during a recovery.

I like how they say "we've made it over" when only the front wheels are up and the rest of the car isn't going to make it due to the poor ramp over angle of the vehicle.

DreamDisco
30th July 2014, 09:18 PM
It could double as a camera tripod to film yourself using before mentioned shovel.

Haha. Probably about all it's good for!!