does the lower front grill need cutting to fit a winch

[simonfish]

Hi guys, I had an ARB deluxe bar fitted to my my14 d90 today and the winch will go on in a few weeks (Warn 9.5xp-s).
My question is, the ARB guy said that the lower part of the front grill, right at the bottom of the grill, will need to be cut out to allow the winch to fit. Does that sound right ? Does anyone else have the same combo as me who can advise?

The cut out bit will be hidden by the winch, so it won't be a problem, but I don't like cutting things off unless really required.

cheers
Simon

[Slunnie]

I didn't think you could fit a 6hp low mount winch between the chassis rails on a Land Rover with a centralised fairlead like with ARB bars.

[simonfish]

mm, I don't know, ARB seem to think I can (or they can, as they are going to fit it).

What makes you think a low mount won't fit ? The 6hp is the same (or smaller) physical size to the smaller hp winches (I think 4.8hp?).

[Slunnie]

The 9.5 winch is an XD9000 with a 6hp motor, the 6hp motor is physically a lot larger than the 4.6hp which is on the XD9000. The 4.6hp already sits about 0.5mm from the chassis rail.

[Slunnie]

Maybe the Defender has a cutout in the bar mount for the winch motor to pass in to.

About 20mm difference in motor lengths

[simonfish]

what would I be looking for to check ? I'll get the tape measure out and the camera and try and work out of it will fit.
cheers
Simon

[chopper]

The OP and first question was regarding the depth (how fat ) of the winch and has now gone onto the length of the winch and if it will even fit between the rails. Its pretty simple , measure it or look up the specs on the winch and measure the space that you have. Agreed that if it does fit between the rails then the spool is most likely not going to be centred but this does not matter unless the bar cutout is already in the centre. I recently fitted a 8000lb on an older Defender and I made the winch cradle fairly close profile for approach purposes and did not need to cut the lower panel but I did bend it in a little so the cable if it gets crossed over wouldn't rub the panel . You need to look at the bar and the winch combo, I would guess a factory made set up would not require cutting, but the people that are fitting should know what they are doing. Don't loose sleep over it.
If you have the winch pick it up and shove it in, you will soon know.

[rijidij]

Warn have detailed measurements at the bottom of each page on their website if you dont have them already 9.5xp-s (http://warn.com/truck/winches/9.5xp-s.jsp)

Cheers, Murray

[simmo]

As earlier advised check the winch dimensions, unless you want the winch out in front of the chassis rails it will have to fit between the "horns" or ends of the chassis rails. I chose an xd 9000 for that reason it fits between the chassis rails, ( not by much, maybe 15 mm each end.), the back of the winch is almost up against the grill panel. The top of the winch housing has the bottom of the grill almost resting on it. The winch drum is not centralised on the winch, its offset away from the motor, the gearbox end is shorter. you can see in the photo of my home made bar one side of the bar is longer beside the fairlead. I don't see that as a problem, it makes no difference to the function of the winch.:)

[simonfish]

thanks guys, I have measured and I don't believe the 9.5xp will fit, I will go with the m8000-s, as it is not as long as the xd9000, so will fit fine.

Thanks for all the advise and patience.

[Slunnie]

Now that I've thrown everything up into the air, I've found this info - I'm guessing the bar has a cutout for the motor, I think the XP9500 is the same as the 9.5:

http://www.arb.com.au/media/pdf/LandRoverDefender_DeluxeWinchBar_April2010.pdf

The following winches are compatible with the bull bar:• Warn low mount models: XD9000, M10000, M12000, XP9500 & XDC9500

• Magnum low mount model: 9K


And the website:
Deluxe winch bar | Products | ARB 4x4 Accessories (http://www.arb.com.au/products/arb-protection-equipment/bull-bars/deluxe-bull-bars/3432300/)

Will accommodate Warn low mount model electric winches up to 12,000lb;

[FeatherWeightDriver]

I was in at ARB a few weeks ago, and the helpful fellow in the store said for a deluxe bar and current Defender, the following winches fit:

XDS9000
Xeon 10000s
M9500

From memory he said the M10000, M12000 would not fit :mad:

[tuesdayfox]

I cut mine...
and then discovered a new genuine grille frame (not the grille) cost 300 pounds

[Tombie]

thanks guys, I have measured and I don't believe the 9.5xp will fit, I will go with the m8000-s, as it is not as long as the xd9000, so will fit fine.

Thanks for all the advise and patience.

Goodness No!!!!!

XD9000 minimum.... Or stop throwing coin away and get a Runva 11XP :cool:

They at least are water sealed, and the warranty will cover them.

A Warn, once there is the slightest hint of rust inside the unsealed unit voids warranty.

They do this very easily - My brand new 9500XP hadnt even been in water - just rain - and the motor was rusted inside.

[4wheeler]

I fitted a Warn 9.5 XP to the current modern version of the ARB deluxe bar which was fitted in 2010 to a 2007 Defender 110. While the instructions and fitting kit advised that the lower grill panel had to be cut, I could not see why as I fitted the winch and trial fitted the grill just in case. There seemed to be plenty of room so I didn't cut the grill. There was clearance of probably 15 mm between the tie rod and the lower grill.


I now have that same winch fitted on my 2013 Defender 110 which has the older style ARB winch bar fitted. Even more room!

[Tombie]

Grill cut only necessary for M12000 Warn and above

[Cammo]

I think if you wish to fit the winch without removing the bar, the grille may require cutting. FWIW I have a 12000lb fan cooled warn winch in my deluxe bar and only had to trim a small section to allow running of the air line for the remote mounted fan

[Tombie]

I think if you wish to fit the winch without removing the bar, the grille may require cutting. FWIW I have a 12000lb fan cooled warn winch in my deluxe bar and only had to trim a small section to allow running of the air line for the remote mounted fan


No, it only requires removing :)

6 screws....

[Loubrey]

thanks guys, I have measured and I don't believe the 9.5xp will fit, I will go with the m8000-s, as it is not as long as the xd9000, so will fit fine.

Thanks for all the advise and patience.

Simon,

The correct rating size etc for a 90 would be the Warn XD9000 (the 8000 is too light for a loaded 90). I have one fitted to my Puma for the last 4 years and no fitment, rust, solenoid, cutting bits out or any of the many perceived and listed issues. I don't have the ARB bar, but the now discontinued Front Runner which is remarkable similar to the ARB Commercial.

I used to have an XD9000i (bridge model) fitted to my 90 when I built roads in Central Africa and it was used near daily and IMO still the best non competition winch available.

My brother still uses that same XD9000i and it now 18 years old with minimal maintenance. While I appreciate quality has dropped over the years to maintain financial viability the old adage still rings true - you get what you pay for.

Cheers,

Lou

[Tombie]

Lou... When's the last time you pulled the armature out of the motor?

[Tombie]

If they are used a lot they are less likely to suffer. In dry environments even less.

The XD9k is a solid winch.

But like Model T Fords... Time has moved on and there are stronger better built units for far less coin.

Like Engel, a National Luna is a superior product IMO.... But it's the new player by comparison.

[Loubrey]

If they are used a lot they are less likely to suffer. In dry environments even less.

The XD9k is a solid winch.

But like Model T Fords... Time has moved on and there are stronger better built units for far less coin.

Like Engel, a National Luna is a superior product IMO.... But it's the new player by comparison.

Tombie,

The old XD9000i was professionally serviced last year and all electrical parts in it were still fine - maybe the QC was better back in the old days (15 to 20 years ago)...

I'm over west, so a lot less humidity and actual rain for that, but I'll definitely keep an eye on my current one.

Agree 100% with you on the National Luna though! :) I have the split 50l one... If its good enough for the UNHCR to carry medical supplies in Africa, it certainly good enough for my requirements!

Cheers,

Lou

[FeatherWeightDriver]

Grill cut only necessary for M12000 Warn and above

Hmm - can someone with a Puma Defender and ARB Deluxe bar please do me a favour and check the distance between the top winch mount bolts straight back to the grille?

I'm seeing 160mm, which isn't enough to get any winch in without cutting the bottom section of the grille that is angled back at 45 degrees. I haven't drilled and bolted the bar chassis mount brackets in place yet, so I guess I can can likely get 10-20mm extra by pulling it out further, but even that doesn't seem to leave enough room...

[Toxic_Avenger]

That's pretty much what I measured- 160mm.
The winch is round(ish) in its side profile, and what I've found is that my warn XDC-S fits fine, as the grille tapers away with the curve of the winch drum.
You gain a bucketload of space when you remove the grille (6 screws). Then you can slide the winch up from underneath the bar, then drop the grille back in from above.
The clearance issue may arise from the clutch engagement lever, but in most models this can be clocked to give it suitable access.

If you are buying a brand name winch, then you can often dig up the dimensions, and make a cardboard template of the side profile to suit, so you can see it 'IRL'

[FeatherWeightDriver]

Thanks - can I assume the free spool lever on the XDC-s sits low enough to be lower than the grille? Is it a squeezw to get in and engage / disengage it?

The 9.5xp-s, XDC-s and XD9000-s all seem to have similar sizing so if one fits any of them will fit.

The Zeon 10-S on the other hand looks too "tall" to slot in without surgery, even with the control pack removed :mad:

[Toxic_Avenger]

You've got buckleys chance of fitting the solenoid box on a factory style warn bracket, as it hangs off the rear of the winch drum support bars.

I'll get some pics of how mine sits and post them up this afternoon.

[4wheeler]

As per my previous post last month, I fitted Warn 9.5 XP to the deluxe bar. I installed the winch from underneath. I removed the grill by taking out the 6 screws as others have suggested and fitted up the winch and as there was clearance at the rear top tie rod no cutting was required. I just re-fitted the grill. Unless ARB have changed the bar or Land Rover have changed the mounting position, the Warn winch should fit. I think you can get all the winch dimensions from the Warn site from memory.


The free spool lever must be rotated from standard to clear the bar and allow enough room to rotate it from free to lock position. I had to adjust the lever position again to fit it to the older style winch bar I currently have as well.


The control box fitted to bracket which was supplied with the ARB winch fitting kit which had either an angled or flat mounting plate so the control box fitted on top of the bar. You could easily make a bracket as I did with my 2013 Defender when I transferred the 9.5 XP to the older style winch bar which was fitted to this Defender when I bought it.

[Toxic_Avenger]

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/12/781.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/12/782.jpg

So the above pics are with the clutch lever at the 3 O'clock position, if you were to look at the end of the winch.
I will probably try to clock it to either the 1 o'clock position or the 12 o'clock position when I have it off next.

In it's current state, it's manageable, but a tight squeeze.

[FeatherWeightDriver]

Thanks all.

Agreed, once the grille comes of there is miles of space to install stuff, and that certainly saves pulling the front bar off!


You've got buckleys chance of fitting the solenoid box on a factory style warn bracket, as it hangs off the rear of the winch drum support bars.

Some installs have the box angled upwards to fit, but I'm not a fan of having the solenoid box sitting in that position as it's just another thing cluttering up / obstructing the radiator airflow.

I rang ARB to double check the information they gave me earlier, and the very helpful fellow said the Zeons don't fit new, but do fit the older Defenders. As the Zeon doesn't seem that better than say a 9.5xps or XDC-s, at least I don't have to anguish about the decision to chop up my grille :)

[4wheeler]

This is a photo of my old Defender with the new style bar fitted. The control box is fitted using the ARB supplied mount plate which has it sitting flat. It does not obstruct air flow too much and I never had an issue with temperature even with the other junk fitted to the front.