Razorback Restoration's 67/68 88" Rebirth

[Old Man Emu]

My son, his mate and I purchased a 67/68 88" Series ll for peanuts with the intention of restoring it to "Low Mileage - Used" condition.

Luckily, the engine is in good nick, and is the transmission. We have a massive amount of work to do to the chassis as the dreaded Rust Monster has been munching away.

This is what we are starting with:

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachments/members-rides/79509d1403679942-what-have-we-bought-front-view.jpg

and
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachments/members-rides/79510d1403680026t-what-have-we-bought-rear-view.jpg

This will be the first of many questions, and might seem stupid, but

Are the nuts and bolts on a Series ll body and chassis Whitworth or SAE?

Old Man Emu

[Dinty]

Really a mixture of both, and whatever a previous owner has decided to use on the day, cheers Dennis

[JDNSW]

....
This will be the first of many questions, and might seem stupid, but

Are the nuts and bolts on a Series ll body and chassis Whitworth or SAE?

Old Man Emu

Series 1 was all Whitworth/BSF/BA. (with a few strange ones, including BSP)

Series 2 started using UNF, and by Series 2A most (numerically) fasteners will be UNF, except for small fasteners, which remain BA, although coarse threads are probably BSW rather than UNC. But some fasteners remained BSF right up to the end of Series production - one place that comes to mind is the drive flange bolts on the hubs. Metric threads only started to be used late in S3 production, except, for example, the wheel studs, which became metric right at the end of S2a production.

Also, bear in mind that many parts are interchangeable across all Series Landrovers, and all bolt and nut sets may have been replaced by anything over the last fifty years.

Working on Landrovers you will eventually get to where you can recognise the different systems at sight, but meanwhile, bear in mind that you may need Whitworth, AF, or metric spanners for any job.

[Old Man Emu]

Thanks for that information. I'll use aircraft grade UNF whenever I replace a fastener.

Old Man Emu

[JDNSW]

Always a question of originality in these things - how close to factory do you want it to be?

In the Series 2/2a, most of the body fasteners were sherardised, which is probably almost impossible to find today - the best you could do is galvanised, but these will be virtually impossible to find in UNF, and replacing them with metric is a difficult decision. For most if not all body bolts, corrosion resistance is more important than strength, although you need to be aware that replacing them with stainless is not generally a good idea where they may be in contact with alloy panels. Zinc or cadmium plating is better than unplated, but that is about all you can say for it!

And you need to keep in mind that some places where the fastener is tapped into part of a structure, such as the top screws holding the dashboard (BA) it is not simply a matter of fitting your preferred thread fastener such as UNF.

John

[Old Man Emu]

The strip-down has begun. Apart from the bonnet and the canopy, which were the first things to come off, we got the seat assembly out last weekend. Luckily, most of the fasteners came loose after a squirt of WD-40. The only difficult ones were the seat belt bolts, but after lots and noise and sparks they were ground off and knocked out.

I've been cleaning up the seat supports by employing electrolysis. Luckily I had a power supply from a computer to provide the necessary 12V for this process. I got things back to shiny metal before applying etch primer. The big No No is to try to clean aluminium parts with electrolysis! Spray-on paint stripper and some aluminium scourer does the trick on the aluminium.

Now comes the question:
The original paint is a deep green. Would this be "Lincoln Green"? Any idea where I can get the recipe for this paint so I can get a few litres made up?

Old Man Emu

[JDNSW]

.......
Now comes the question:
The original paint is a deep green. Would this be "Lincoln Green"? Any idea where I can get the recipe for this paint so I can get a few litres made up?

Old Man Emu

I think it is called Deep Bronze Green, and I am pretty certain details have appeared somewhere in the Series 2/2a section of this forum.

John

[Old Man Emu]

This weekend's effort resulted in the rear body being removed from the chassis to expose the chassis.

There's good news and bad. We knew that the rear section was badly rusted out and was a write-off. The news is that we will have to cut it forward of the rear spring hanger as shown in the attached diagram. The bad news is that it will mean that we will lose the chassis number which is punched into the left rear spring hanger. I'll have to do some research with the motor registry to see how we can get around that annoyance.

The good news is that the rest of the chassis rear of the firewall is in good nick. The only work required here will be a good cleaning with the pressure washer; a little bit of grinding off surface rust, then a good squirt of paint.

We found a that a lot of the bolts were rusty, so I am going to sort out the sizes and buy new nuts, bolts and washers. These will be aviation grade and CAD plated. I figure I can also reduce the vehicle's weight by a kilo or two by using bolts that are a tad shorter.

I had a lot of success during the week using electrolysis to restore rusted seat supports. I finished them off with a coat of etch primer, and they look almost as good as bought ones.

Next task is to remove everything forward of the firewall and the axle assemblies so we can get the chassis into the welding shop.

Old Man Emu

[stealth]

Can you show your set up for the 12 volt supply. I use batteries as I blew up a couple of battery chargers. Annoying having to swap and charge all the time.

[Old Man Emu]

I have followed these instructions several times and have had success.

How to Convert a Computer ATX Power Supply to a Lab Power Supply (http://www.wikihow.com/Convert-a-Computer-ATX-Power-Supply-to-a-Lab-Power-Supply)

The important thing is to run one yellow (12V) wire and one black (ground) to your outlet sockets. You will also need the 10 Ohm resistor. I use two ceramic 5 Ohm resisters in series (obtained from Jaycar).

Make sure that you use a heavy gauge wire to run from the PSU to the electrolytic bath. Try for about 14G. If your PSU output is about 15 Amps, thin wire will start getting hot after a while.

I am using a piece of steel plate for the Positive side of the circuit, and a length of steel smooth rod on the Negative side from which I hang my parts. I use welding wire to make my hooks.

If you can get hold of a circular drum, use the lid to make a ring of steel smooth rods to go around the inside wall of the drum. Connect the wires electrically to serve as the Positive electrode. Then put your parts into the centre of the drum. This way, all sides of the part you want to treat are adjacent to a source of electrons and the job will be quicker.

Or you could do this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54ADeB6V1rQ

Most YouTube videos tell you to use washing soda (sodium carbonate) to make up the bath solution. This stuff is safer to use than caustic soda (sodium hydroxide), but if you use gloves, it's OK. How much caustic soda powder? Just follow the mixing instructions on the container. Of course, I didn't and just sloshed stuff in.

Old Man Emu

[Old Man Emu]

Over the past fortnight we have managed to strip the body off the chassis so we could have a real good look at it.

Unfortunately, the results are not too good. The rear of the chassis is rotted out from forward of the spring hangers. There's bad rust in the front section of the chassis. The A pillars of the firewall are rotten, and the radiator support bracket isn't to good.

We are hoping that we can rely on the simplicity of the manufacture so that we can make replacement parts for those which are rusted out.

On the bright side, we have hardly found a nut or screw that could not be undone easily. We did grind a couple of bolts off to save time.

The next task is to lift the motor and gearbox out and whip off the axles and suspension.

Here are some pix:



Old Man Emu

[Old Man Emu]

Seems my partners have deserted the ship, leaving me to pull things apart and get the accumulated muck off so we can start splashing some paint about.

I've stripped everything off the chassis except for the Steering Relay Box. I've been told that it is a real bitch to get out.

I've undone the two bolts which go through the brackets on top of the chassis cross rail, and bent the brackets a little. I've taken off the steering rod arm, and everything that bolts into the lower end of the relay shaft housing. I've squirted some WD40 down the sides, and driven wedges under the wings where the two bolts I mentioned above go through the housing.

I can't twist the housing because the brackets are in the way, and I feel that if I get the housing above the brackets, it's going to be out anyway. As a last resort I could cut off the brackets and weld them back on later.

I'm a bit scared to go bashing on the transfer shaft for fear of breaking something. Please advise if that's the way to go.

Old Man Emu

Please tell me there is an easy way

[debruiser]

Seems my partners have deserted the ship, leaving me to pull things apart and get the accumulated muck off so we can start splashing some paint about.

I've stripped everything off the chassis except for the Steering Relay Box. I've been told that it is a real bitch to get out.

I've undone the two bolts which go through the brackets on top of the chassis cross rail, and bent the brackets a little. I've taken off the steering rod arm, and everything that bolts into the lower end of the relay shaft housing. I've squirted some WD40 down the sides, and driven wedges under the wings where the two bolts I mentioned above go through the housing.

I can't twist the housing because the brackets are in the way, and I feel that if I get the housing above the brackets, it's going to be out anyway. As a last resort I could cut off the brackets and weld them back on later.

I'm a bit scared to go bashing on the transfer shaft for fear of breaking something. Please advise if that's the way to go.

Old Man Emu

Please tell me there is an easy way

Good luck... I used a really big hammer to drive mine up, but burred over the end of the shaft in the process. I have seen other cut a section from the front crossmember. I would suggest lots of lanox... and maybe a little prayer :P

[Gerokent]

I've got a series II chassis that's in pretty good nick (rear X member only Rust), that needs a new home.
P.S The steering relay came out easliy with a jack :)

[Old Man Emu]

Yes, I have been thinking about using an hydraulic 10 tonne jack. The picture shows the method I think I might use:

Old Man Emu

[JDNSW]

A few years back I converted an 88 chassis into a trailer. I stripped everything off it, and spent about a week trying everything I could think of to get the steering relay off. It still has the steering relay in it!

John

[Old Man Emu]

It seems that the steering relay assembly could be the only design fault in the whole show.

OME

[Old Man Emu]

OK. Looks like it is stuck like fundament to the blanket.

As the steering relay assembly is the only thing left on the chassis. Should I undo all the bolts, top and bottom and service the unit, leaving the housing where it is stuck in the chassis?

The assy has to be filled with lubricant. Is this oil, or grease? If it is grease, should I drill and tap a hole in the side of the assy and fit a grease nipple?

What is the grade of lubricant to use?

Thanks

OME

[JDNSW]

OK. Looks like it is stuck like fundament to the blanket.

As the steering relay assembly is the only thing left on the chassis. Should I undo all the bolts, top and bottom and service the unit, leaving the housing where it is stuck in the chassis?

The assy has to be filled with lubricant. Is this oil, or grease? If it is grease, should I drill and tap a hole in the side of the assy and fit a grease nipple?

What is the grade of lubricant to use?

Thanks

OME

I would be inclined to leave it there and overhaul it in situ. However, either do a search on here for how to do this, or read the manual. Unwary disassembly can cause serious injury from the spring inside.

It should be filled with EP-90.

John

[Old Man Emu]

Yeah. I'm aware of the 40 lb tension on the spring. I'll be careful!

OME

[Old Man Emu]

Had to move the chassis yesterday as part of the Great Backyard Clean-up, so I leant it against the fence, resting on its nearside rail. That gave me a clear view of the steering relay assembly from the underside of the frame.

It occurred to me that the assembly is meant to be slipped into position so the only thing that can be holding it is a build up of rust and dirt. I am going to try to feed a bit of baling wire from bottom to top along the space between the assembly and frame. This should dislodge enough muck to allow me to slip a thin coping saw blade up where the wire went. Then I can use to coping saw blade to cut through the muck as I move it around between the assembly and frame. If I can clear away the muck, I think the assembly will slide out.

Old Man Emu

[wrinklearthur]

Another little trick when dealing with rust is to load the item up in the opposite way it is to be disassembled.

By way of example, some times when trying to undo a rusted thread it pays to tighten the thread before undoing it, this breaks the rust bond.

I like the idea of that use of a jack, but it may be worth the effort to make an adapter to support the wall of the tube as the cross member section might distort with the chain putting pressure away from that tube.

I have seen the old relay sacrificed and the rusted tube cut out, replaced with a new tube that's welded in and another reconditioned relay fitted.
.

[Old Man Emu]

The relay is slipped in from the top of the chassis cross member and its further downwards movement is prevented by the lugs that the retaining bolts go through, so it is not a possibility to knock it further downwards in an attempt to break rust seals.

The body of the relay looks like a dumb-bell in that it has a central waist. The dirt and muck accumulates around the waist and seals the assembly into the hole it goes through.

I had a bit of a poke with some stiff wire which I had thinned by grinding away one side for a few inches from the edge. I was able to scrape and pull muck from one side of the assembly and got the wire about 2" towards the top of the cross member from the bottom.

I was only testing the idea at the time, but it looks like it could work. I didn't spend more than 15 minutes scraping away, so next time I'll devote at least an hour. I'm going to try to shoot high pressure water into the space to see if that dislodges more muck.

Whatever happens, this looks like being a time consuming job and therefore not a viable approach in a commercial situation.

Old Man Emu

[Old Man Emu]

I attacked today armed with a fret saw blade. The teeth on these blades are short, so are good for pulling dislodged muck out of the hole. I was poking my piece of wire into the muck to break it up, like using a spud bar to break out the earth for a fence post hole. I got the idea that a drill bit would work like an auger bit, to break up the muck so I gave that a go with some success.

Due to the narrow space between the relay assembly body and the chassis, I could only used a relatively thin drill. Also, the assembly is skewed and the biggest space between it and the chassis is under the securing lugs. So if I manage to break through from bottom to top, there won't be much leeway to jiggle the assembly loose.

I confident that I can dig the assembly out, but it will take a fair bit of time. Then again ... the Grand Canyon was once a gully.

Old Man Emu