Metric or Imperial?

[JdL]

Hi, I am about to receive in September my new black 90 ordered back in April. I have been getting my accessories sorted but want to get my toolkit at the ready. Is the bolts, nuts and fittings on a MY15 Defender metric or imperial? Thanks.

[Slunnie]

Which part of it? :D

[rick130]

What Slunnie said ! :D

Seriously, most everything is metric except a few things such as the prop shaft bolts (3/8 UNF)

[JdL]

Mainly just the front bumper to put on a new one, rear bumper for wheel bracket and high lift bracket, interior for seat rails. Nothing too mechanical, my skill doesn't run that far! Thanks for your help.

[Sirocco]

A basic socket set should have both the metric and imperial sockets required to do the job.

Familiarise yourself with identifying marks on bolt heads of both metric and imperial and that will help ease the pain ;)

G

[wrinklearthur]

There are a few torx bolt heads that are in the odd spot and a set of good quality torx bits is something I would keep handy.

Do the six speed gear boxes have a filler/level plug that requires a torx bit to undo it, like the one in a R380 gearbox?
.

[AndyG]

Jdl i went through the same exercise recently for my new 110, (built on this Wed :) ).
It would seem there is no Whitworth, which is a plus !:D

After much deliberation i bought the Stanley 69 piece all metric kit from Super Cheap with also comes with a variety of torx, allen keys etc. And the Stanley fax max pliers set, (vise grip, monkey wrench, pliers) to round it out. Looks like i need to get a 3/8 UNF just as well.

Prob more tools than i need, but if your up **** creek, its good to have a full set of paddles.

[chopper]

What Slunnie said ! :D

Seriously, most everything is metric except a few things such as the prop shaft bolts (3/8 UNF)

This is not a spanner or socket size

[AndyG]

Metrinch-tools - IF THIS CAN'T DO IT, NO TOOL CAN (http://www.metrinch-tools.com/website/produkten.php'subnr=7)

I bought a set many years ago, great for general occassional work and covers AF & Metric.

From memory not expensive

[Grappler]

There are a few torx bolt heads that are in the odd spot and a set of good quality torx bits is something I would keep handy.

Do the six speed gear boxes have a filler/level plug that requires a torx bit to undo it, like the one in a R380 gearbox?
.

The mt82 gear box filler and drain is a hex socket on mine.

There are plenty of male torx head bolts that need a torx socket as well as the torx bits for the female torx fasteners

[rick130]

This is not a spanner or socket size

No, it's what the bolt actually is !
I can't remember what the hex size is, but I know it's a 3/8UNF bolt.

If you buy a bolt or nut you buy by the thread dimension, not the hex size. ;)

[uninformed]

Pretty sure its 9/16

[Dougal]

Pretty sure its 9/16

Yep, the old standard for imperial bolts and nuts was 1.5 times the shank diameter.
1.5x3/8 is 9/16.

But 14mm usually fit too.

[uninformed]

yep and I gestimate metric bolt dia + 5mm....that was untill they started putting 17mm hex on M10.

Now im far from an engineer, but I dont see the point in a head that big on a 10mm bolt??

[jimr1]

I like to add my 2c , this has been mentioned before , put the tools you want too carry bag , better than a steel tool box , they don't rattle or slide around the same . There are a good selection of strong tool bags , with lots of side pockets for small bits and pieces , they don't cost a lot !!..cheers Jim

[Dougal]

yep and I gestimate metric bolt dia + 5mm....that was untill they started putting 17mm hex on M10.

Now im far from an engineer, but I dont see the point in a head that big on a 10mm bolt??

I think for metric they started with rounding imperial sizes off to the nearest mm.
Then the Japanese made lightweight metric bolts, 14mm head on m10 etc.
Now I see a lot of 15 and 16mm m10 and 18mm m12. Sizes that didn't used to exist.

[uninformed]

I think for metric they started with rounding imperial sizes off to the nearest mm.
Then the Japanese made lightweight metric bolts, 14mm head on m10 etc.
Now I see a lot of 15 and 16mm m10 and 18mm m12. Sizes that didn't used to exist.

in my short wrenching time, 13mm was standard on M8, 15mm on M10. This of coarse does not include those flange head bolts that have smaller hex, like the M8 on the R380 that have a 10mm hex.

Go to carpentry and the industry standard for my last 20 years is 18mm on a M12. Though you do get the odd brand that loves to put a 19mm hex on a M12, which buggers you up especially if you custom make sockets. :mad:

[rick130]

Pretty sure its 9/16


Yep, the old standard for imperial bolts and nuts was 1.5 times the shank diameter.
1.5x3/8 is 9/16.

But 14mm usually fit too.
Yep, bolt head size is that, but the nut hex is reduced when you use a K nut ! :cool:

Trying to find M10x1.0 (not 1.5) pitch bolts in 8.8 and 12.9 ATM.... :eek:

[Dougal]

in my short wrenching time, 13mm was standard on M8, 15mm on M10. This of coarse does not include those flange head bolts that have smaller hex, like the M8 on the R380 that have a 10mm hex.

Go to carpentry and the industry standard for my last 20 years is 18mm on a M12. Though you do get the odd brand that loves to put a 19mm hex on a M12, which buggers you up especially if you custom make sockets. :mad:

I'm still buying stainless m10 with 17mm heads and stainless M12 with 19. But all the galv and zinc bolts are usually 16 and 18. The socket and spanner sets I bought 10 years ago don't have 16 or 18mm.

So the last spanner set I bought has all of them. 1mm increments from 6-20mm.:cool:

[Dougal]

Yep, bolt head size is that, but the nut hex is reduced when you use a K nut ! :cool:

Trying to find M10x1.0 (not 1.5) pitch bolts in 8.8 and 12.9 ATM.... :eek:

What's a K nut?

I've looked for M10x1.0 before and came up empty. I may have cut and rethreaded long shank M10 coarse. What's your application? Cut threads are of course weaker in fatigue than rolled threads. But you can machine down the shank to stress-relieve the first thread going in. Exactly the same reasons as waisting down drive axles.

Grade 12.9 I go straight to SHCS.

[uninformed]

I'm still buying stainless m10 with 17mm heads and stainless M12 with 19. But all the galv and zinc bolts are usually 16 and 18. The socket and spanner sets I bought 10 years ago don't have 16 or 18mm.

So the last spanner set I bought has all of them. 1mm increments from 6-20mm.:cool:

Yep, and then there is structural bolts lol

[rick130]

What's a K nut?

I've looked for M10x1.0 before and came up empty. I may have cut and rethreaded long shank M10 coarse. What's your application? Cut threads are of course weaker in fatigue than rolled threads. But you can machine down the shank to stress-relieve the first thread going in. Exactly the same reasons as waisting down drive axles.

Grade 12.9 I go straight to SHCS.

Aerospace nut, reduced hex, (lightweight) flange base, all metal locking, almost infinitely reusable.

The rich man's nyloc, used to use them on race cars all the time, still have a bag full of moly coated ones in 5/16, used all my 3/8 ones on the prop shaft retaining bolts :D

AFAIK all SHCS are 1.5 pitch in M10 ?

I'm servicing a locker and it uses those bolts in 30 and 40mm lengths respectively, tensioned to 14kgf/137NM so I don't really want to reuse them.

[chopper]

No, it's what the bolt actually is !
I can't remember what the hex size is, but I know it's a 3/8UNF bolt.

If you buy a bolt or nut you buy by the thread dimension, not the hex size. ;)

He doesn't want to but a "bolt" or a nut , ( its technically only a bolt when used with a nut ) he wants tool buy TOOLS, imagine going into a shop and asking for a socket to remove a 3/8 unf nut, you would have the young fella's scratching their heads , Its not whitworth .

[wrinklearthur]

He doesn't want to but a "bolt" or a nut , ( its technically only a bolt when used with a nut ) he wants tool buy TOOLS, imagine going into a shop and asking for a socket to remove a 3/8 unf nut, you would have the young fella's scratching their heads , Its not whitworth .

Old !!! - Whitworth used the tool size for size of the shank, a system invented for practical purposes, with the length of a spanner designed to give the correct torque to the shank by hand pressure and before this system came into being, most fittings were hand made to suit the application .

UNF and UNC use AF sized tools, think of that being the size being the measurement Across the Flats of the hex of stud, bolt or nut.

The two measurement systems caused no end of confusion between the spare parts bloke and yours truly, as a young wet behind the ears when searching after parts while working on the farm's early machinery including the Land Rover, then needing something for the Fergy tractor.

Still have the old Whitworth sockets from the farm and even today I still can't see the size markings on them as they were worn off years before I got to use them.
.

[rick130]

Old !!! - Whitworth used the tool size for size of the shank, a system invented for practical purposes, with the length of a spanner designed to give the correct torque to the shank by hand pressure and before this system came into being, most fittings were hand made to suit the application .

UNF and UNC use AF sized tools, think of that being the size being the measurement Across the Flats of the hex of stud, bolt or nut.

The two measurement systems caused no end of confusion between the spare parts bloke and yours truly, as a young wet behind the ears when searching after parts while working on the farm's early machinery including the Land Rover, then needing something for the Fergy tractor.

Still have the old Whitworth sockets from the farm and even today I still can't see the size markings on them as they were worn off years before I got to use them.
.

I hate Whitworth head sizing with a vengeance, and I still cop it a lot on what I work on. :(
The threadform is very clever though from a fatigue/stress POV.

[Dougal]

The problem with Whitworth was they tinkered with it. During WW2 one of the bolt head sizes was reduced to save steel.

At which point all usefulness evaporated. How much steel did they waste supplying new spanners to go with the new bolt head size?

[AndyG]

My Gardner 6LX engines are Whitworth and i love them with a passion, and they will still be going when we are all compost.
New fangled AF & Metric, Bah :p

[AndyG]

Are we off topic yet ?

[chopper]

Are we off topic yet ?

Was going to say , what have I started ? ! .
Whitworth rhymes S-hitworth

[clive22]

Hi

This has gone off topic.

This is what I carry for a tour.

Full set of metric spanners and 3/8" sockets (10-19), plus 22,24, and 27mm 1/2" drive sockets. 32mm spanner for fan and tie rod ends, etc. Metric will usually fit but is just a titch looser so use the ring end if you can.

I carry and extra 9/16 open/ring (roe) which coupled with a 14mm allows me to undo drive nuts on the road.

1/2" as this adjusts my handbrake plus a few other things and nothing metric fits this size, between 12 and 13mm.

I also carry a 300mm adjustable spanner, but I probably don't need to.

Clive