For crying out loud... 5th gear whine

[phibbzy]

Finally got the 110 squared away after more repairs, preventative maintenance and upgrades than you can poke a stick at...

Everything was pretty good around the block, the new (2nd hand low km rebuilt) gearbox was nice, shifting fairly well.

Unfortunately out on the high way I near wet myself when I slipped into 5th at 100kmph up to 110 as there is a horrific whine emanating from the gearbox area.

Only in 5th gear, only under load, pitch changes with speed. It's running Penrite Trans Gear 75W80 which is fresh - less than 20km old.

I am thinking layshaft bearings.

Any ideas or advice? Do I live with it while I either rebuild my old box or get an ashcroft unit?

[Devans]

I had a similar noise in mine but at about 70km/hr upwards. I just changed the gearbox oil and the transfer case oil. The oil in my transfer case was pretty low, has that been changed/topped up recently??

I'm not an expert with this, but it solved my noise problem.

[phibbzy]

Box boxes were filled when I put them in the car - penrite transgear 75w80 mtf94 for the gearbox and sae 80-90 for the transfer. It's only in 5th under load. I'll crack the gearbox tonight and check the level - perhaps as it was empty of oil for a short while there was an air pocket or unprimed gallery or some such resulting in low oil... I believe I noted it taking a few hundred ml less than what the manual quotes...thanks for the idea

[djam1]

Do a search on this forum for R380 5th gear bearing failure. Don't drive it to destruction you can change the rear bearings without pulling the main transmission out. You will however need to pull the rear housing off after removing the transfer case.

[uninformed]

Do a search on this forum for R380 5th gear bearing failure. Don't drive it to destruction you can change the rear bearings without pulling the main transmission out. You will however need to pull the rear housing off after removing the transfer case.

Yes I have read it can be done, but it would be a fair bit of a ***** of a job, even with the correct tools!

First thing youd want to do is pressure wash the beejesus out of that area before removing anything, then pull the tcase and wash some more. Id find it near impossible to keep crap from that area out of the box once you have the rear housing off.

You will need some good pullers to remove the mainshaft collar and bearing tracks from 5th gear. There is a chance the cage for the mainshaft rear bearing will get damaged when removing the rear housing, so my have to plan on replacing that one also.

[djam1]

I found the job not to be too bad what I would be concerned about would be the shrapnel that has been created by the disintegrating rear lower bearing. I would replace the oil pump as well. Dave Ashcroft will have the best advice.

[phibbzy]

Well I've had a couple of days to calm my farm and test a few things. It's a bit different to what I had thought it to be the other night.

The whine appears at around 60kmph and appears linked to vehicle speed. The faster the vehicle goes the louder and higher pitch the whine. The whine is the same pitch at 100kmph in 4th as it is at 100kmph in 5th.

The PO had the units checked & vehicle serviced just before breaking with no such problem reported/found.

The boxes are filled with Penrite Trans Gear 75w80 MTF94 in the g/b and EPX80W90 in the transfer.

I have checked all wheel bearings for play/rumbling or any signs of problems. I have checked all UJ's, all have been recently replaced and have no signs of play. Checked the pinions as well - no play...

I have removed front and rear props in turn and driven in diff lock and the whine is still present.

The vehicle had the flywheel, RMS, spigot bush, clutch kit, fork, slave, throw out bearing replaced when the gearbox was done. New gearbox mounts fitted.

The rear diff was measured and removed to install a locker but after tearing down the center the locker was found to be DOA and the diff was rebuilt and refitted. The measurements were the same (backlash and pattern) when it was installed. The diff leaked badly thanks to a blocked breather and a bad gasket so it drove 10km or so on only a liter or so of oil.

So that's what I have so far...

I am thinking trying a different oil, perhaps even some Nulon G60? Failing this perhaps taking the plate of the transfer and inspecting end float.

Any ideas anyone? :(

[wrinklearthur]

A positive is, you have the rear diff setup ok.
.

[phibbzy]

Okay well I have tried a few more things.

I have added Nulon G60 to the transfer, taken it for a highway drive and no different.

I Have also dropped the gearbox oil and replaced it with VMX-M with G60 added - shifting is now slick as a buttered crumpet - but the whine is still frustratingly present!

I have a video uploading of the sound so perhaps that will help with diagnosis!

[Brett1066]

Have you tried turning the radio up?:p If you can't hear it then it's not a problem :) Of course this only works if 1 - you have a working radio and 2 - it goes loud enough to drown out whatever you want drowned out - ie annoying car noises, nagging children, nagging wife etc etc :p

[phibbzy]

Have you tried turning the radio up?:p If you can't hear it then it's not a problem :) Of course this only works if 1 - you have a working radio and 2 - it goes loud enough to drown out whatever you want drowned out - ie annoying car noises, nagging children, nagging wife etc etc :p

I like to listen to the clatter of the motor :D :(

[96defender]

Thanks for the post, I have this exact whine with my 110.. Starts at about 60kms in 3rd and builds in 4th and 5th the faster I go. Its been doing my head in! Ive looked at similar posts on a few different forums and cant seem to find a solution.. Some people have poured thousands and thousands rebuilding/reconditioning only to find the noise remains!

I appreciate your updates, keep us posted on your efforts!

[phibbzy]

...some people have poured thousands and thousands rebuilding/reconditioning only to find the noise remains!

Typical me I guess - I spent thousands and put myself in this situation! :D:D

It's looking to be gearbox/trans related and unfortunately the rest of the searching is going to be internal looking at bearings, preloads and backlash of components!

[wrinklearthur]

Hi James

Is there a possibility the prop shaft universal joints are not phased correctly?
.

[phibbzy]

Hi James

Is there a possibility the prop shaft universal joints are not phased correctly?
.

Negative :(

I have not removed the yokes recently and joints were replaced recently & play checked was checked. Both props were removed in turn and the noise persisted identically as before.

I did replace the speedo cable however one would assume that if this was the culprit then it would be constant.

Struggling to think of anything else external to transmission!!

[96defender]

Hey Phibbzy any progress finding the culprit? Mines having a thorough check up next week by a local specialist ahead of a big trip so I'll keep you posted if they can figure it out!

[phibbzy]

Hey Phibbzy any progress finding the culprit? Mines having a thorough check up next week by a local specialist ahead of a big trip so I'll keep you posted if they can figure it out!

Too much on the go mate. As the next step is an anticipated weekends worth for the unenlightened I'm going to have to live with it for a few more weeks.

Only thing to add is the transfer is noisy as hell in LOW range 4th/5th - I don't know how other LT230's perform at that speed/gear however as its not something I have had to do "naturally".

[wrinklearthur]

Pull the top cog out of the LT230 and make sure it hasn't a different cut or pitch on it's teeth and been mixed up with another one with the change over.

The Clue !!!!
---- the transfer is noisy as hell in LOW range 4th/5th -----
.

[mudder110]

just started getting the same noise on my 98110 300tdi thought it was the roof rack took it off still there.
with the landy in the carport idling if I just touch the throttle I can barley here it. as I drive off get a mild hum that builds in fourth doesn't seem to get louder with speed only on constant speed once I put it into 5th get to 100 it howls put the clutch in it stops.
put a chinese alternator on about 20,000ks ago thought it might that
I hate these type of sounds does your head in will keep looking
mudder.

[phibbzy]

just started getting the same noise on my 98110 300tdi thought it was the roof rack took it off still there.
with the landy in the carport idling if I just touch the throttle I can barley here it. as I drive off get a mild hum that builds in fourth doesn't seem to get louder with speed only on constant speed once I put it into 5th get to 100 it howls put the clutch in it stops.
put a chinese alternator on about 20,000ks ago thought it might that
I hate these type of sounds does your head in will keep looking
mudder.

The bearings in my alternator are near stuffed and the tensioner is close behind it. I cant fathom how this can be causing the problem though as the sound would appear to be speed/gear related as apposed to engine revs which is what the alternator is paired with.

[96defender]

A local Rover specialist diagnosed the problem at the rear diff! Not sure if im convinced as it sounds like its coming from the front/centre of the car..

[phibbzy]

I replaced the input gear on the transfer today on the advice of wrinklearthur.

The whine has retreated to a fraction of its former glory. If I get the right speed and right application of throttle i can JUST make it out...

Comparing the whiny input gear to the known quiet one i installed the difference in machine quality was obvious to see. Both were cross drilled and relatively new however the known good one looked like it was properly machined where as the whiney unit looked like it was made on a lathe in rural Latvia...

Figure what remains of the noise might fade with time as the new faces bed in somewhat....

We will see how we go!

[wrinklearthur]

I replaced the input gear on the transfer today on the advice of wrinklearthur.

I went for a ride in Phibbzy's Beast, hanging on for dear life while he rounded up some klicks per hour on the speedo :burnrubber:.
My observations were; there was loud high pitched gear noise emanating from the transferbox area and as he had said, the noise was speed related in high range, I asked him to demonstrate to see if the same noise could be heard in low range.

White knuckle time! :o While we raced along a country road on the grass verge, I had to remind myself that Defeer's are stable up to a forty degree side slope and noted that the same noise was apparent around the same engine rev in forth gear low range.

Top cog in the transfer box was then to me the obvious source of the high pitched noise, I had to questioned Phibbzy about the gearbox's previous owner's state of hearing. I could hear the noise quite easily over my tinnitus :(.

After working on getting that cog out of the old box from his Defender, leaving Phibbzy to it, I left for home with all the goodies that he was willing to swap me for the stuff that I had brought up from my place :).
.

[96defender]

Thanks HEAPS phibbzy and wrinklearthur! Currently on a 3 month trip northward on my honeymoon and the noise is quite getting to me! (And the missus..) I'll be in the Goldy from the 24th for a little while and was wondering where I could take Hugo to get a new input gear installed? Obviously somewhere with a good rep and isnt going to cut my honeymoon 3 months short with the bill. Would also love to catchup with anyone heading northward on an adventure as the itinerary is pretty flexible at the moment! Thanks guys and gals.