D2 calipers to D1

[loanrangie]

Does anyone have front D1 and D2 calipers to compare to see if the D2's will fit to a D1, looking at vented disc options.

[Dougal]

Why?

Sliding calipers are a downgrade. If you want better stopping them the defender calipers (certain model range) have 25% bigger pistons for more stopping power.
Vented rotors will only stop brakes from over-heating. They won't make them more powerful in normal operation and can have problems packing with mud offroad.

I went to defender calipers and vented rotors on my 85 RRC about 8 years ago. Best modification ever.

[loanrangie]

Why?

Sliding calipers are a downgrade. If you want better stopping them the defender calipers (certain model range) have 25% bigger pistons for more stopping power.
Vented rotors will only stop brakes from over-heating. They won't make them more powerful in normal operation and can have problems packing with mud offroad.

I went to defender calipers and vented rotors on my 85 RRC about 8 years ago. Best modification ever.

Thats why i am asking about the D2 calipers, would be cheaper and more available than defender calipers.

[bee utey]

Seeing like how every single component of the D2 front hub is different to the D1 I can't see there being any chance whatsoever of the calipers interchanging.

[Dougal]

Thats why i am asking about the D2 calipers, would be cheaper and more available than defender calipers.

Nope. Brand new calipers ex UK. I paid 55 quid each back then.

[loanrangie]

Seeing like how every single component of the D2 front hub is different to the D1 I can't see there being any chance whatsoever of the calipers interchanging.

I had assumed so but have never seen them to compare.

[loanrangie]

Nope. Brand new calipers ex UK. I paid 55 quid each back then.

New ones yes but try to find 2nd hand deefer calipers, new ex UK does seem best bet.

[p38arover]

There is a kit to convert standard callipers to fit vented rotors.

Davis Performance Landys do one: Range & Land Rover Front Brake Pads Upgrade Kits - Buy Online (http://davisperformance.com.au/modification/front-brake-vented-spacer-kit.html)

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

[Dougal]

New ones yes but try to find 2nd hand deefer calipers, new ex UK does seem best bet.

Second hand will likely need rebuilt anyway. Which would murder any initial savings.

[loanrangie]

I emailed Davis for a price so hopefully its good.

Sent from my GT-I9300 using AULRO mobile app

[p38arover]

Davis had modded my RRC for the previous owner many years ago.

[uninformed]

All the factory defender ventilated rotor calipers are, is non ventilated rotor calipers with spacers.

[dullbird]

I put defender calipers on my discovery.

Seriously what a massive difference to the braking performance I wished I had done it a long time ago!!

I bought calipers off a TD5 through JC..

JC actually warned me off the the cheaper ones you can buy from the UK they are apparently just not built like they should be.

He told me to buy the ones that Landrovers put on from factory and there is one other brand if you can't get a hold of them...I can't recal the name though sorry.

[Vern]

Interesting to know the brands DB, I put cheapies on mine as funds were tight back then, but am happy to replace them for a better unit when these die

[dullbird]

I will trawl back through my PMs when I get a chance see if I can find out discussion.

Also I should clarify I did have to put defender discs on to go with it.
I think from memory I paid 300bux for the calipers which had nearly new genuine pads with it. I think they came off a TD5 but could have been a puma I can't remember now

[Dougal]

I will trawl back through my PMs when I get a chance see if I can find out discussion.

Also I should clarify I did have to put defender discs on to go with it.
I think from memory I paid 300bux for the calipers which had nearly new genuine pads with it. I think they came off a TD5 but could have been a puma I can't remember now

Defenders use exactly the same rotors as RRC and D1. The only difference is vented or solid.

[p38arover]

Are Defender calliper pistons or pads bigger than RRC/Disco 1?

If not, and noting Dougal's comment about the rotors, I can't see why they'd be such an improvement except for the advantage of better cooling of the rotors.

[Slunnie]

Does anyone have front D1 and D2 calipers to compare to see if the D2's will fit to a D1, looking at vented disc options.
Do D2 calipers have bigger pistons than D1?

[clubagreenie]

D2's are single (large) piston but sliding design.

I hate them, working on a 6 & 4 pot brembo conversion but only because I have the calipers. Otherwise I could buy another D2 for the cost.

[Vern]

Defenders use exactly the same rotors as RRC and D1. The only difference is vented or solid.

Pretty sure rears are a different offset.

[TonyC]

Are Defender calliper pistons or pads bigger than RRC/Disco 1?

If not, and noting Dougal's comment about the rotors, I can't see why they'd be such an improvement except for the advantage of better cooling of the rotors.

Defender front callipers have bigger pistons than Disco ones so they generate more clamping force.
I don't know if there are differences in the master cylinders, or if it matters.

Tony

[loanrangie]

I've some checking on UK parts suppliers and it seems AP Delphi are the good ones and then there is Britpart :o , postage cost will be the big factor.

[loanrangie]

Just got a call from Bruce Davis and he is going to get me a price on the spacers on Monday, depending on price i might try them out and if i need more i will swap defender calipers.

[Vern]

Nick, i did the spacers once, don't waste your time, defender calipers is a much much better option. Recommend braided linesif you already haven't done so.

[Dougal]

Just got a call from Bruce Davis and he is going to get me a price on the spacers on Monday, depending on price i might try them out and if i need more i will swap defender calipers.

Spacers and vented rotors will not increase stopping power in normal use.
They'll only help in high heat. Like towing or driving in steep mountains.

[loanrangie]

Spacers and vented rotors will not increase stopping power in normal use.
They'll only help in high heat. Like towing or driving in steep mountains.

Agreed, towing is where i need to help with fade, never had a problem with the brakes as such but did notice the extra effort (and there for heat build up ) that it took to slow the mass down.

Damien, yes the deffy calipers would be better but i dont know if SWMBO would agree on the extra cost.
This is all dependent on the cost of the spacers, too dear and may as well just bite the bullet and get the calipers.

[dullbird]

Defenders use exactly the same rotors as RRC and D1. The only difference is vented or solid.

They were defender vented discs which where also the same part number for the RRC I don't know about the D1.

[Dougal]

They were defender vented discs which where also the same part number for the RRC I don't know about the D1.

Trust me. I have d1 axles with defender calipers and vented rotors under my rrc.

I went through all of the caliper and rotor part numbers before starting this swap.

[dullbird]

What do you mean trust me???

I'm not arguing with you! I know that D1, RRC and defender are interchangeable

I'm just telling you the part number given to me was just stated for Defender and RRC they didn't say D1 on it that's all.

[clubagreenie]

If the pistons are larger as stated you need to reassess the master cylinder.

Bigger pistons, more.displacement, more pedal travel or larger master cyl required

[Dougal]

If the pistons are larger as stated you need to reassess the master cylinder.

Bigger pistons, more.displacement, more pedal travel or merger master cyl required

This has all been discussed to death in other threads.
Calculate out the pedal travel required and the answer is extremely obvious.

[Dougal]

What do you mean trust me???

I'm not arguing with you! I know that D1, RRC and defender are interchangeable

I'm just telling you the part number given to me was just stated for Defender and RRC they didn't say D1 on it that's all.

Every listing I've seen was the same part number for disco 1, rrc and defender solid, same again for vented.

[clubagreenie]

Hey I was just pointing out what was queried a few posts earlier. If someone wants to find the calculations there's heaps of stuff online. But (and I hate going here but seen it happen on more than one brake mod) master cyl undersized for volumetric requirements of system, accident, accident investigation pull the car apart (and they will) and suddenly no insurance and half a dozen extra charges.



But what do I know, just used to design hydraulic systems and reference engineer brake systems for mods.

I'll have my head back now thanks and **** back off to my corner.

[Dougal]

Hey I was just pointing out what was queried a few posts earlier. If someone wants to find the calculations there's heaps of stuff online. But (and I hate going here but seen it happen on more than one brake mod) master cyl undersized for volumetric requirements of system, accident, accident investigation pull the car apart (and they will) and suddenly no insurance and half a dozen extra charges.

Uninformed, completely wrong, scaremongering.

You don't find calculations online. You do them with a friggen pen, paper and calculator.


But what do I know, just used to design hydraulic systems and reference engineer brake systems for mods.

:eek:

I would expect much, much more understanding from anyone who claims to design brake systems.

[dullbird]

Every listing I've seen was the same part number for disco 1, rrc and defender solid, same again for vented.

AND????


what exactly is the point your trying to prove here with me...


The part number was given to me in a PM it stated as I think I have said twice in this thread already Defender and RRC it was probably for D1 too, I said I didn't know because they never stated that in the PM and I never looked it up...

So Dougal rather sitting here trying to prove a point that doesnt need to even be proven, as I never disagreed with you in the first place, how about we just move on hey..

[Dougal]

AND????


what exactly is the point your trying to prove here with me...

You keep posting as if you're not sure they are the same. But they are exactly the same part across all three fitments
It's useful information for people hunting down rotors for this conversion.


The part number was given to me in a PM it stated as I think I have said twice in this thread already Defender and RRC it was probably for D1 too, I said I didn't know because they never stated that in the PM and I never looked it up...

So Dougal rather sitting here trying to prove a point that doesnt need to be even proven as I never disagreed with you in the first place how about we just move on hey...

??? Why the drama?

[dullbird]

I never looked up that specific part number to confirm that it said D1 on there as well...I'm sure it does! but I never looked it up so there for I'm not going to write it,simple really

I don't really know how I can explain it any other way

so if you want to keep going on about it thats Ok but just please stop quoting me....because it just comes across like your trying to prove a point and as I said before I'm not arguing with the information you have given. Was only explaining what was in my PM

thats why im getting frustrated.

So again lets move on...

[Dougal]

So to recap.

The calipers you need have 46mm pistons instead of the stock 41.3mm.
The master cylinder remains the same.
Some calipers have metric sized bolt holes, some are imperial. A drill sorts any problems out.
You will need to replumb from dual line fronts (if you have them) to single line. Most MC's can be converted. You replumb so the circuit split is front/rear (like all other vehicles).
The decision to remove or retain the rear brake pressure reducing valve is made depending on how your brake bias suits the loading of your vehicle. My vehicle works better with it removed.
The total extra stroke on the pedal is 16%. A completely insignificant amount.

[clubagreenie]

Hmmm...

Mr literal. You won't find calculations online but you will find information and even online calculators plus how to do it on paper.

Maybe you walk around with every calculation in your head ready to prove everyone wrong at every opportunity but while I know what formulas are I'll always reference something to make sure. Added to which there are many people on here for whom such a conversion is mechanically simple but it's easy for someone to assume that because it works it's correct.

As for scare mongering, been in the sharp end of the stick and only my knowledge, experience and qualifications saved me from 10+ years after an accident that I could prove was someone else's fault because of exactly what I mentioned.

So you can sit safely in your pit of knowledge. I'd rather over inform someone and make them aware of the potential issues than have something happen and know that they should have done something different.

Lou, I now understand your frustration.

[Dougal]

Hmmm...

Mr literal. You won't find calculations online but you will find information and even online calculators plus how to do it on paper.

Maybe you walk around with every calculation in your head ready to prove everyone wrong at every opportunity but while I know what formulas are I'll always reference something to make sure. Added to which there are many people on here for whom such a conversion is mechanically simple but it's easy for someone to assume that because it works it's correct.

As for scare mongering, been in the sharp end of the stick and only my knowledge, experience and qualifications saved me from 10+ years after an accident that I could prove was someone else's fault because of exactly what I mentioned.

So you can sit safely in your pit of knowledge. I'd rather over inform someone and make them aware of the potential issues than have something happen and know that they should have done something different.

Lou, I now understand your frustration.

It's an extremely simple calculation. One line.
No references, no on-line calculators. Just a simple understanding of what is going on.

You have 12 pistons total. 8 are now 25% bigger area.

8/12 x 25% = 16.6%
Which is 16.6% more pedal travel.

Scaremongering is not overinforming. It is deliberately spreading misinformation. Which is the complete opposite.

[460cixy]

Just looking at my cyl cattle dog d1 and defender both have inch bore masters so no problems with pedal travel