when will it end, Israel v Palestine

[bob10]

A real can of worms, Bob


BBC News - Gaza conflict: Why Israeli invasion would be risky (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-28214803)

[digger]

How can we guess when it will end when in reality noone is sure when it started?

[ATH]

The Middle Easterners hate everybody and everything. Constant war between each other and constant war between different factions in Islam.
I don't blame Israel one bit for retaliating. Why should they allow the Hamas terrorists to chuck missiles at them?
AlanH.

[ramblingboy42]

It will end when foolish religious following ends.

[Ausfree]

That's why I thank God I live in Australia, well away from all that crap.

[bob10]

How can we guess when it will end when in reality noone is sure when it started?


Around about here, I guess, Bob



BBC NEWS (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/shared/spl/hi/middle_east/03/v3_ip_timeline/html/1948.stm)

[rangietragic]

AFAIK the british controlled palestine untill the end of the war,and told them they would be granted independence with a plestinian state.The UN wanted somewhere to put all the displaced jews,so drew some lines on a map and said"this is now israel",you palistinians can like it or lump it.The new isralies then turned on the british who left them to it,it's been on ever since.This is my understanding anyway,i could be wrong.There will never be peace in the middle east,they have been fighting for thousands of years,they won't stop now.The jews think they have gods blessing to be there,and most muslims are still living in the middle ages.

[defmec]

Over 80 palistinians have died in the last few days, including alot of children over. Gaza and west bank do not have a army, navy,airforce. As of two months ago the power supply to most palistinian towns has been cut during night as apparently Israel doesn't have enough power for them. Every year new Israeli settlements get pushed into palistinian land. And we wonder why they get grazy people throwing rockets over the fence. Religion aside what Israel are doing is genocide. This has nothing to do with being Jewish or Muslim. there is no end to the rise of the Zionist state. There will be no palistine in 20 years

[simmo]

A guy, (with armed escort), turns up at your house & orchard where your family has lived for 400 years, (with armoured bulldozer) and gives you a day to clear out, ( to a refugee camp in the the the desert), "This is our land they say". are you ****ed? hell yeh!!!!! want to Kill them? you bet!!! how come we let the isrealies get way with that? how come we don't bycott them? they are the new nazis, but all the western world loves them, and the Americans support them. They lost my support when they build the first new settlement, on land they stole from the Palestinians, there was some american woman on the news recently at a "pioneer camp" sqatting on Palestine land as a precursor to settlement building saying "this is out land ". plain old theft and land grab by the new nazis. I wish the Palestinians good luck.

[Jordan]

A guy, (with armed escort), turns up at your house & orchard where your family has lived for 400 years

Aborigines were here 100 times longer than that.
When are you handing your house back?

[Sprint]

That's why I thank God I live in Australia, well away from all that crap.

Havent you noticed that its slowly coming here?

[simmo]

i suppose there's some esoteric parallelism there, maybe that I missed it.
but no one in my family, or even my country I'm aware of). came with guns and an armored bulldozer and knocked anyones house down, or destroyed their livelihood. we're not talking about what happened 200 years ago, we're talking about whats happening now. FYI I don't have a house.:), but aboriginal claim to land is more legitimate than the new nazis land grab, claiming land rights a 1000 years later.

[Saitch]

I have a vague recollection that the precursor to the "United Nations", the "League of Nations", were considering a part of Oz as a site for the new Israel. I'm sure they would have tried to "expand" here too.

[manic]

What the Israel government is doing is an absolute disgrace... it's shocking. For a country full of people that vow to never forget the Jewish ghettos and holocaust to then so easily allow the same conditions on others.... they must be blind sick from fear.

Fireworks against high tech American tanks. The worst of it is the media are all towing line with the Israeli rhetoric. No one has the balls to call it an atrocity.... fighter jets bombing a walled off empoverished ghetto ffs!



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[Jordan]

The worst of it is the media are all towing line with the Israeli rhetoric.

I missed those media reports. Please show where they are.



No one has the balls to call it an atrocity.... fighter jets bombing a walled off empoverished ghetto ffs!


It's a good example of deliberately "losing" for propaganda purposes.
When you can't win militarily, show how horrid the other side is.
It works, people sympathise just like they're meant to.

[Jordan]

no one in my family, or even my country I'm aware of). came with guns and an armored bulldozer and knocked anyones house down, or destroyed their livelihood. we're not talking about what happened 200 years ago, we're talking about whats happening now. FYI I don't have a house.:), but aboriginal claim to land is more legitimate than the new nazis land grab, claiming land rights a 1000 years later.

Sounds like you're having a bet each way. :D
It's nice to wash your hands of any responsibility, but another way to view our situation is that we are indeed responsible, in direct proportion to the advantages we still enjoy, for just not being black.

[JDNSW]

As pointed out above, the area has been fought over for millennia. Even back in prehistory, the Jewish state only existed for a few hundred years at a time. It became (successively) part of the Babylonian, Egyptian, Seleucid empires, then firmly Roman, with a good effort at genocide after they revolted in about 70AD (which led to dispersal of Jews throughout the Roman Empire). The area was overrun by Arabs in the seventh century, and became part of the Islamic caliphate. Occupied for a generation or more by Normans (and others) during the crusade, it was again taken over by the Islamic Caliphate, which in turn was taken over by the Turks.

This remained the situation until the end of WW1, when the entire area was divided into protectorates (France got Syria, Lebanon, Britain got Palestine, Iraq, Iran, by the victorious French and British as the Ottoman Empire was dismantled, and more or less independent Arab states were created in Trans-Jordan and Saudi Arabia, and the gulf emirates and other coastal emirates such as Oman; Britain retained Aden. Egypt and Sudan, which had already become more or less independent of Turkey remained under British influence. North African Ottoman states were shared out between France, Italy, and Spain.

Through all of this there had remained a significant Jewish population in what is now Israel (helped by Islamic tolerance of Jewish faith!), which was boosted by immigration starting in the nineteenth century from areas of persecution especially in Eastern Europe, and intensifying after the rise of the Nazi regime in the thirties.

After WW2, with the example of what had happened in Germany led to a further increase in Jewish immigration, despite the efforts of the British to stop it. In 1948, after much discussion with no results, Israel declared unilateral independence. The Arab League, primarily Egypt and Syria, called on the Arab population of the new Israel to leave so that they would not get hurt while the Jews were wiped off the face of the earth. Many of them did, forming the basis of the Gaza settlement. The war did not end as the League had intended, with Israel being well supplied with experienced military personnel from various combatants in WW2, and supplied with arms (clandestinely) by the USA and Soviet Union, both of which were happy to see their Jews go someplace else.

With the neighbouring Arab states generally refusing to even consider the possibility that Israel could exist, the period since has been a series of short wars (invariably won by Israel), with Israel grabbing some strategic territory each time (and Transjordan (now Jordan) taking a grab as well, leaving the only non-jewish remnant of the Palestinian Protectorate of the interwar period the Gaza strip and the "west bank", essentially those bit not wanted by either Israel, Jordan, Lebanon or Syria.

With this history, can anyone see any possibility of lasting peace? I can't.
Even without Israel, it is very unlikely that there would be peace.

John

[manic]

It's a good example of deliberately "losing" for propaganda purposes.
When you can't win militarily, show how horrid the other side is.
It works, people sympathise just like they're meant to.

That's like saying the Jews deliberately allowed themselves to be put in concentration camps and gas chambers in a cunning ploy to cause international outrage. Ridiculous.

Hardline religious states are medieval.


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[87County]

...........

With this history, can anyone see any possibility of lasting peace? I can't.
Even without Israel, it is very unlikely that there would be peace.

John

good summary JD, thanks, but one of the main concerns is that they will turn to even more destructive WsMD to use


......

Hardline religious states are medieval.

..

Quite right , but how on earth can people be encouraged to see this ? I used to have the hope that education, and increasing individual wealth would help achieve this ... but ...

[Jordan]

Hardline religious states are medieval.


Listening to news from Iraq, it seems quite modern.

[Pickles2]

In view of what happened in WW11, I've always felt a bit of sympathy for the Jews,...still do I suppose,....I guess they feel that they're sick of being pushed around,..won two wars against Egypt etc etc.
BUT, my wife went on a "Pilgrimage" to the Holy Land last year, with an Anglican Priest friend of ours, who has a degree in Biblical History etc etc, he's lived & worked there for several years, and has conducted many tours. He DOES know what He's talking about,.....and my wife was on one occasion, "singled out" at an Israeli checkpoint, which our friend said was "normal".
It was mentioned to Karen that say the Japs had kept part of Northern Australia after WW11, what would we be doing?...Well we'd be trying to get it back wouldn't we?....Well karen was told "That's all the Palestinians are trying to do".
I reckon the first step would be for Hamas to stop launching rockets, but I believe Israel's response is VERY heavy handed.
So if you guys think this is just "waffling", well it probably is, because I don't know how it will end up.
Pickles.

[frantic]

Quite a few of the Jewish settlements (and houses in Palestinian areas)named illegal, actually are legally owned by the Jewish people building there. Basically they see a farm or house on the market and buy it through either a middle man so it is not known it is being sold to Jewish people or they offer a lot more than the owners could ever get from another Palestinian.
The original owner usually moves to another country(where they get way over normal values by selling to settlers)or claims it was stolen when it becomes known who they sold it to. Then the neighbours spit the dummy and it ends with the army acting as neighbourhood watch.

[defmec]

Feeling sorry for Jews means you haven't studied the history of what they are capable of. You might want to read up on the Russian revalouton and the murder of millions done by the Jewish mobs.

[loanrangie]

Having worked in Israel just after the first gulf war i feel for the Palestinians, they were the dumping ground for Europe's unwanted after WWII.

[Jordan]

You might want to read up on the Russian revalouton and the murder of millions done by the Jewish mobs.

Thanks. What comic book was that then?

[Bigbjorn]

As has been often said and it is true. If theArabs disarmed and ceased terrorist tactics against Israel there would be peace the next day. If Israel disarmed there would be no Israel.

In 1948, when the Arab population was fleeing Israel to get out of the way of the supposedly soon to be victorious Arab armies that would kill the Jews or drive them into the sea, the Israeli leaders pleaded with the Palestinian leaders to convince their people to stay and defend their mutual homeland where all were equal citizens. After the Israeli victory and the Palestinians who fled tried to return they were told that Israel was not going to accept returning traitors. So, the Palestinians themselves messed their bed and have had to lay in it since.

Note that Palestinian refugees in Jordan tried to repay the hand of friendship offered by Jordan by attempting a coup to take over Jordan as their own country. They found out what happens in a monarchy with a well trained and equipped modern army which is loyal to their King. (Black September). Look at the mess they made of Lebanon which was a modern democratic multi-faith nation.

Most Palestinians are descendants of slaves/serfs from Jordan and Saudi Arabia taken there during Ottoman rule.

[Mick_Marsh]

Thanks. What comic book was that then?
Yeah, I'd expect that sort of comment from someone who has trouble with reading the back of corn flakes packets.
You could have asked that with a little more respect.
Wouldn't it be better to have asked "Where did you get that information from?"

[Mick_Marsh]

As has been often said and it is true. If the
Arabs disarmed and ceased terrorist tactics against Israel there would be peace the next day. If Israel disarmed there would be no Israel.

In 1948, when the Arab population was fleeing Israel to get out of the way of the supposedly soon to be victorious Arab armies that would kill the Jews or drive them into the sea, the Israeli leaders pleaded with the Palestinian leaders to convince their people to stay and defend their mutual homeland where all were equal citizens. After the Israeli victory and the Palestinians who fled tried to return they were told that Israel was not going to accept returning traitors. So, the Palestinians themselves messed their bed and have had to lay in it since.

Note that Palestinian refugees in Jordan tried to repay the hand of friendship offered by Jordan by attempting a coup to take over Jordan as their own country. They found out what happens in a monarchy with a well trained and equipped modern army which is loyal to their King. (Black September). Look at the mess they made of Lebanon which was a modern democratic multi-faith nation.

Most Palestinians are descendants of slaves/serfs from Jordan and Saudi Arabia taken there during Ottoman rule.
It's moved on from there, Israel (or at least those in power) are now intent on driving the Palestinians into the sea.
It won't end, even if one of the protagonists are wiped out. There is always a new enemy to someone.

[manic]

As has been often said and it is true. If theArabs disarmed and ceased terrorist tactics against Israel there would be peace the next day. If Israel disarmed there would be no Israel.

No thats not true. If 'Arabs' disarmed, Isreal would continue to walk over them - you would only have peace for Israel. If Israel did not receive its military might from the US we may have had a two state solution by now. As it is Israel have no reason to compromise - they are untouchable.



Most Palestinians are descendants of slaves/serfs from Jordan and Saudi Arabia taken there during Ottoman rule.

Peg this on the end to help justify a lack of sympathy? Not working. Israel cannot continue to do what they are doing to these people without guilt. Even if Isreali's don't feel it now, when the dust settles they risk being left with a country that they cannot be proud of.

It is the Israeli government that has gone mad with military power. Just listen to the violence in their words, they incite violence and promote hate. It's sickening and irresponsible for a democratic Goverment to be allowed to behave in this way. The people of Israel, they need to reign in a monster.

[Jordan]

Yeah, I'd expect that sort of comment from someone who has trouble with reading the back of corn flakes packets.
You could have asked that with a little more respect.
Wouldn't it be better to have asked "Where did you get that information from?"

Is that the best response to my challenge to back up that nonsense statement about rampaging Jews killing millions of Russians?

[Bigbjorn]

It's moved on from there, Israel (or at least those in power) are now intent on driving the Palestinians into the sea.
It won't end, even if one of the protagonists are wiped out. There is always a new enemy to someone.


No thats not true. If 'Arabs' disarmed, Isreal would continue to walk over them - you would only have peace for Israel. If Israel did not receive its military might from the US we may have had a two state solution by now. As it is Israel have no reason to compromise - they are untouchable.



Peg this on the end to help justify a lack of sympathy? Not working. Israel cannot continue to do what they are doing to these people without guilt. Even if Isreali's don't feel it now, when the dust settles they risk being left with a country that they cannot be proud of.

It is the Israeli government that has gone mad with military power. Just listen to the violence in their words, they incite violence and promote hate. It's sickening and irresponsible for a democratic Goverment to be allowed to behave in this way. The people of Israel, they need to reign in a monster.

If Australia had nests of terrorist murderers (Hamas and Hizbollah) entrenched on our northern and southern borders, who send raiding parties into our territory, bombard us with missiles, use suicide bombers and car bombs to murder us indiscriminately, then wouldn't you expect our government to do something about stamping them out. Note well that the Palestinian's Arab brothers in neighbouring nations don't want them in their countries regarding them as trouble on the hoof.

[Mick_Marsh]

Is that the best response to my challenge to back up that nonsense statement about rampaging Jews killing millions of Russians?
No. That is not a response to your challenge. I also would like to see supporting documentation to that claim.
It was a response to you trolling for a reaction. Well, you got one but not from where you expected.

[Mick_Marsh]

If Australia had nests of terrorist murderers (Hamas and Hizbollah) entrenched on our northern and southern borders, who send raiding parties into our territory, bombard us with missiles, use suicide bombers and car bombs to murder us indiscriminately, then wouldn't you expect our government to do something about stamping them out.
Yep.
But, if we were like the Israelis, we'd be invading Indonesia and calling it a "buffer zone".

[Ausfree]

Havent you noticed that its slowly coming here?

Unfortunately................yes. It's about time we toughened up or risk losing our little piece of paradise.:(

[Jordan]

Yep.
But, if we were like the Israelis, we'd be invading Indonesia and calling it a "buffer zone".

You mean, like New Guinea?

[Jordan]

No. That is not a response to your challenge. I also would like to see supporting documentation to that claim.
It was a response to you trolling for a reaction. Well, you got one but not from where you expected.

I don't want a reaction, I want a retraction or evidence.

[Mick_Marsh]

You mean, like New Guinea?
Well, yes. That was what I was specifically referring to.
Half of the New Guinea island is part of the Indonesian nation.
That is the part
if we were like the Israelis, we'd be invading Indonesia and calling it a "buffer zone".

[manic]

If Australia had nests of terrorist murderers (Hamas and Hizbollah) entrenched on our northern and southern borders, who send raiding parties into our territory, bombard us with missiles, use suicide bombers and car bombs to murder us indiscriminately, then wouldn't you expect our government to do something about stamping them out. Note well that the Palestinian's Arab brothers in neighbouring nations don't want them in their countries regarding them as trouble on the hoof.

It is no different when flipped.

If Palestine had nests of terrorist murderers entrenched on its borders, who sent raiding parties into their territory, controlled their borders, reduced their freedom to move, destroyed their homes and infrastructure, bombarded them with airstrikes and used powerful weapons, tanks and artillery to murder without trial, then who would be surprised if they supported mitlitia's hell bent on retaliation?

Note well that there are Jewish brothers in neighbouring nations that do not like Israelis, regarding them as trouble on the hoof.

I think when you are in the position of power you have a much greater responsibility in a situation like this. Israel has destroyed the quality of these peoples lives with relatively little interruption to the enjoyment of their own - a truly opulent life in comparison. Israel is going the wrong way.... if the majority of its people ever come to admit it, this situation might improve.

[defmec]

Jordan here is a link. You can find many more if you know how to search.

http://www.rense.com/general77/bols.htm

[Mick_Marsh]

Jordan here is a link. You can find many more if you know how to search.

Jewish Bolsheviks Murdered 66 Million In Russia (http://www.rense.com/general77/bols.htm)
Ah, yes, Dick Fojut.

So, where did you find this gem? From "The Vatic Project" after the "Egyptian Archaeologist Admits Pyramids Contain Alien Technology" article?
You know he is a member of a paranormal organisation.
I'll let you draw your own conclusions.

[Mick_Marsh]

Oh, what a great website that rense is. Lots more articles to read.
Articles with titles such as:

Netanyahu Won't Stop Gaza Genocide

Netanyahu Mocks World Over Gaza Slaughter

Obama Calls His Wife 'Michael' - Vid

Irrefutable Proof Michelle Obama Is Male? - Vid

Obama Is Gay, Michelle Is A Tranny - Vid

Joan Rivers Blows Up Michelle's Skirt - Vid

Bulge In Michelle's Dress? - Vid

Details Of Alleged Roswell Alien Slides/Photos

UFO Files Of German Secret Service Revealed

UFO Over Australia Identified - Vid

Is Earth's Magnetic Field In Trouble?

Yellowstone Closes Road Because It's Melting

ABC Lies To Fit Pro Zionist Israel Bias - Vid

ABC Whores Show Gaza Devastation, Says It's In Israel

Israeli Ethnic Cleansing Underway In Palestine

Israeli Liquidating Women, Children With Glee

Oz Judge Says Incest, Pedos May Become 'Normal'

Incest No Longer Taboo Says Oz Judge

New Study Shows Roundup Damages Sperm

Mystery 'Meteor' Burning Over Oz Sky Baffles Watchers

Aircraft Carrier Sized UFO Over NYC 1988

80% Of The Light In Space Is Missiong - NASA

Yellowstone Road Melts From Supervolcano

UFO Hovers Over Lake Erie

Buzz Aldrin Talks About 'UFO' Encounter

NSA, FBI Spying Shows US Is No Longer Free

More Military Programs To Control Social Media Revealed


I think I'll stop using round up.

[AndyG]

So no rumors on the new Defender :o:p

[defmec]

Lol. There are many different sources on Jewish Bolsheviks, I just copied and pasted the first one. And the abc openly apologised for showing pics of Gaza and saying it was Israel when they were caught out (bias). Sounds like a interesting website ;-)

[Jordan]

Jordan here is a link. You can find many more if you know how to search.

Jewish Bolsheviks Murdered 66 Million In Russia (http://www.rense.com/general77/bols.htm)

Thanks defmec,

That's a very colourful website. :)

[Mick_Marsh]

Thanks defmec,

That's a very colourful website. :)
Certainly is. It links to this article:
http://rt.com/news/171868-australia-judge-incest-homosexuality/
We'll be giving Rolf a pardon next week.

[bob10]

Wow. Certainly the most out there response to one of my posts. Time to raise the drawbridge, lower the portcullis, they are out there, somewhere, Bob

[Saitch]

A real can of worms, Bob


BBC News - Gaza conflict: Why Israeli invasion would be risky (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-28214803)
I'm surprised Sportsbet haven't got onto this!
How sad for all!