New RN carrier, impressive

[bob10]

Pity they have no aircraft yet, she looks impressive, Bob

BBC News - HMS Queen Elizabeth: First look at UK's new aircraft carrier (http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-28125835)




BBC News - Royal Navy crew trains on aircraft carrier simulator (http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-hampshire-20546202)

[shining]

The episode of "Yes Minister" comes to mind with the new hospital with doctors and nurses but no patients because there was no money for admin staff.

A very impressive piece of kit all the same.

[3toes]

Now this is story told to me a few years ago only I have no evidence of this.

Relative in the RAN tells me that a couple of years ago Brutish government Ministers were in Sydney on a low key visit which was basically a list of all the RN boats afloat with price rags to see what you might want to take. Only one taken up was the lift ship which is now transferred across.

Included was the offer of an Invincible class carrier with aircraft (air crew and associated staff included). This was part of a package which included the second aircraft carrier they are building.

Idea being as they were going to scrap the existing carrier which had just been refurbished and did not have a use for the people could cut a good deal to allow Australia to regain the skills ready for the new carrier when it was ready.

[AndyG]

The episode of "Yes Minister" comes to mind with the new hospital with doctors and nurses but no patients because there was no money for admin staff.

A very impressive piece of kit all the same.

What! And get it all scratched, next you will suggest the Navy should stop defending Sydney Cove and move closer to potential threats. Unless you don't trust those dodgy Kiwis pulling a swiftly.

[juddy]

No aircraft for at least 6 if not 10 years they reckon.

The second carrier will be mothballed as soon as its built.

Huge cost over runs at the expense of the tax payer, BAE have the contracts sewn up pretty good, the MOD have made so many construction changes the cost continues to go up.

Just one very expensive helicopter carrier for the next few years.

[PAT303]

It's good to see we aren't the only ones with incompetent defense forces. Pat

[PAT303]

This may seem like a silly question but where are the catapults?. Pat

[juddy]

I think its the same with most Governments around the world Pat.

Its not there money so they don't care. Saying that some projects do come in on time and in budget.

[juddy]

This may seem like a silly question but where are the catapults?. Pat

Its not got any, so it can never launch conventional aircraft. It was going to have the US electrical launch system, when the F35c was going to be used, so now they have to use the F35B, which is still having problems.

The ability to add the catapults and arrestor gear was always specified from the start, but as you need steam for these and these carriers are gas you can't have a steam system, thus the US electric system.

Putting in the cat system later down the line, 2/3 Billion pounds.

[THE BOOGER]

This may seem like a silly question but where are the catapults?. Pat

It doesn't have any ship is purpose built for the lighting 11:) uses the ramp

left the computer for a while and juddy beat me to it

[Bigbjorn]

The episode of "Yes Minister" comes to mind with the new hospital with doctors and nurses but no patients because there was no money for admin staff.

A very impressive piece of kit all the same.

Or the one where Jim was going to lay off so many thousand public servants. Humphrey pointed out that a greater number would have to be employed to handle the work of redundancy packages and redesigning work flows so Departments would still function with greatly reduced staff.

[Bigbjorn]

As carriers usually operate as part of a battle group with all sorts of escorts for protection and a couple of submarines hanging around, does the RN have enough ships left to do this?

[bob10]

It's good to see we aren't the only ones with incompetent defense forces. Pat


I think you should re think that , a very foolish remark. Defence procurement, perhaps, and government decisions, perhaps, but don't point the finger of scorn at the Men & Women in the defence force. Bob

[PAT303]

Sorry Bob but yes it's the defense forces fault,not having catapults means the only plane that this POS can use is a plane that still doesn't fly,and defense caused the Seasprite fiasco that cost Oz tax payers 1.2 billion dollars and it was defense that wanted the F35 that doesn't fly and defense bought Super Hornets to fill the gap because the F35 doesn't fly,all this cost billions so don't tell me defense is not to blame.The idiots bought Taipan boots and spent $$$ changing them only to cause collapsed arches in soldiers feet,there lucky I'm not the boss. Pat

[Greatsouthernland]

This may seem like a silly question but where are the catapults?. Pat

Magnetic propulsion.

Maglev conduit is under the Kevlar-graphite skin centre of each launch path (it's camouflaged with a thin layer of the standard deck compound anyway)...

Just don't discuss the technology too much though, the net isn't 100% secure on weekends! don't want the gerrys getting all the intel :eek:

:D



Patent pending.

[Bigbjorn]

I think you should re think that , a very foolish remark. Defence procurement, perhaps, and government decisions, perhaps, but don't point the finger of scorn at the Men & Women in the defence force. Bob

Bob, wearing a uniform is not proof against stupidity. Plenty of dickheads, bludgers, thieves, liars and cheats in the forces like in any cross section of the community.

[Greatsouthernland]

It's good to see we aren't the only ones with incompetent defense forces. Pat

Incompetent Defence Ministers ;)

Wiki - The minister administers the portfolio through the Australian Defence Organisation, which comprises the Department of Defence, the Australian Defence Force, the Defence Materiel Organisation, the Australian Defence Force Academy, and a range of other agencies.

[Pickles2]

Pity they have no aircraft yet, she looks impressive, Bob

BBC News - HMS Queen Elizabeth: First look at UK's new aircraft carrier (http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-28125835)




BBC News - Royal Navy crew trains on aircraft carrier simulator (http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-hampshire-20546202)
G'Day Bob, Yes, a friend of mine, ex British Army, mentioned this to me yesterday. Good to see the Brits building ships like this.
Pickles.

[weeds]

I think you should re think that , a very foolish remark. Defence procurement, perhaps, and government decisions, perhaps, but don't point the finger of scorn at the Men & Women in the defence force. Bob

men and women do contribute of the defence force do contribute to every purchase...

I come across plenty that I thought were incompetent like any organisation, plenty of places to hide in a section, platoon, company

but than again I didn't join to be a soldier so my view might be a bit skewed

[bob10]

men and women do contribute of the defence force do contribute to every purchase...

I come across plenty that I thought were incompetent like any organisation, plenty of places to hide in a section, platoon, company

but than again I didn't join to be a soldier so my view might be a bit skewed


No place to hide on a ship at sea. The Army, however? I agree with you. Bob
:D

[bob10]

Bob, wearing a uniform is not proof against stupidity. Plenty of dickheads, bludgers, thieves, liars and cheats in the forces like in any cross section of the community.


I think you are thinking of the Public Service. Or politicians, Bob
:p

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Going back to the F35 and the debacle it seems to be, makes me remember another debacle aircraft the F-111.

Wing hinges were cracking planes apparently were going to be dropping out of the sky. But then again, we got some pretty long service from the aircraft when sorted and delivered.

[AndyG]

Not to mention a whole range of ailments for the guys who worked on them.

As a matter of interest, why were most of them buried, rather than recycled. Were they that toxic ?

[lyonsy]

the planes were buried because they could not be sold and when all the mesumes had taken up the ones avilable and there were left over's they dystroyed and buried them to prevent technolgy being stolen.
were getting the f35 because america wouldent sell us the f22 and the f35 was the next best plane america had/was developing suposedly

[Lotz-A-Landies]

the planes were buried because they could not be sold and when all the mesumes had taken up the ones avilable and there were left over's they dystroyed and buried them to prevent technolgy being stolen.
were getting the f35 because america wouldent sell us the f22 and the f35 was the next best plane america had/was developing suposedlyWe were originally going to be a customer for the F22, but dropped out in the development stage. Nearing the end of the F-111 lifespan we tried to opt back in to the F22 but were locked out. How's that for Australian Defence planning.

[AndyG]

Surely recycling those metals would have prevented the theft of 40 ? year old technology, and returned a few dollars to the taxpayer,

We gave the Melbourne to the Chinese for razor blades and they kept it for yonks to help design their new Carrier. So once bitten twice shy ?

Mr Google says
RAAF F111 aircraft disposal news | Warbirds Online (http://www.warbirdsonline.com.au/2013/07/01/raaf-f111-aircraft-disposal-news/)

[Bigbjorn]

Going back to the F35 and the debacle it seems to be, makes me remember another debacle aircraft the F-111.

Wing hinges were cracking planes apparently were going to be dropping out of the sky. But then again, we got some pretty long service from the aircraft when sorted and delivered.

When we were awaiting delivery of the F111's in the 1960's, a Sydney journalist was wont to refer to them as "the flying opera house". Meaning, of course, the F111's were running well over time and massively over budget like the construction of the opera house.

[Bigbjorn]

I think you are thinking of the Public Service. Or politicians, Bob
:p

As has been said about many military officers "He was so stupid even the other officers noticed."

[AndyG]

Traditionally,

The first son got the estate,
The smart one became a Bishop
The dumb one joined the Army or Navy :wasntme:

[bob10]

As has been said about many military officers "He was so stupid even the other officers noticed."


I think you mean this, Bob
https://www.strategypage.com/humor/articles/british.asp

[bob10]

Traditionally,

The first son got the estate,
The smart one became a Bishop
The dumb one joined the Army or Navy :wasntme:


And the black sheep was sent to the ends of the Earth, like PNG. Bob:angel:

[Bigbjorn]

Traditionally,

The first son got the estate,
The smart one became a Bishop
The dumb one joined the Army or Navy :wasntme:

The Prussian aristocracy worked this way. First son inherited the title and the estate, and joined the family regiment as required. Second son joined the church. Third and subsequent were given a gold coin and a bible and sent off to make their own way in the world.

[Lotz-A-Landies]

C'mon guys, lets talk about the ship or the planes, not a sparring match between members. :(

[bob10]

C'mon guys, lets talk about the ship or the planes, not a sparring match between members. :(


Thanks mum, promise I wont hurt them. But they started it. Bob
:angel:

[AndyG]

I threw a line and got a bite.:p
Actually very proud of my military forebears, No Flint Grey, Major General who gave those revolutionaries some cold steel,:), Frederick Grey , First Sea Lord, and an early one, the flag bearer for William the Conqueror.

I only managed 7 years as a Sapper ,

Pip pip

[AndyG]

And the black sheep was sent to the ends of the Earth, like PNG. Bob:angel:

Actually it was Tasmania, and on the way grand dad saw the Titanic sink. The flares at least.

[Bigbjorn]

I threw a line and got a bite.:p
Actually very proud of my military forebears, No Flint Grey, Major General who gave those revolutionaries some cold steel,:), Frederick Grey , First Sea Lord, and an early one, the flag bearer for William the Conqueror.

I only managed 7 years as a Sapper ,

Pip pip

My Mrs. can trace her ancestry back to an uncle of William. She reckons she has a better claim to the English Crown than Betty and her bunch of German usurpers.

[PAT303]

Sorry but I can't help but laugh,a brand new carrier but with no planes to use it :p so what are the poms going to use?,the F35 is now past 400 Billion dollars and counting and still doesn't fly,maybe they could refurbish some Harriers from the bone yards,or see what the Reds could supply :wasntme:. Pat

[bob10]

I threw a line and got a bite.:p
Actually very proud of my military forebears, No Flint Grey, Major General who gave those revolutionaries some cold steel,:), Frederick Grey , First Sea Lord, and an early one, the flag bearer for William the Conqueror.

I only managed 7 years as a Sapper ,

Pip pip


Yeah mate & my mums the Queen of England, Bob
;)

[bob10]

Actually it was Tasmania, and on the way grand dad saw the Titanic sink. The flares at least.


On the Californian, was He ?Bob

[AndyG]

Not sure, I never followed through on the research, he was 10, the old man, the black sheep had grabbed his kids and the girlfriend and bolted from London, on the way to Tassie.

He remembers the officers on deck discussing the flares/party on the horizon.

[AndyG]

Yeah mate & my mums the Queen of England, Bob
;)

**** were related:p

[bob10]

**** were related:p


All we have to do now, is claim the inheritance. Couldn't be too hard, just have to talk to roses, & stuff. & learn how to speak German. Bob
;)

[bob10]

It's been a bit of fun, brothers, but back to the main game Bob


IN FOCUS: Why the UK's carriers will not be 'airfields at sea' - 4/10/2012 - Flight Global (http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/in-focus-why-the-uk39s-carriers-will-not-be-39airfields-at-370186/)

[Bigbjorn]

Sorry but I can't help but laugh,a brand new carrier but with no planes to use it :p so what are the poms going to use?,the F35 is now past 400 Billion dollars and counting and still doesn't fly,maybe they could refurbish some Harriers from the bone yards,or see what the Reds could supply :wasntme:. Pat

I think the U.S. Marine Corps own the Harrier designs and rights now. The poms couldn't afford to do necessary upgrades and modernisation. The Marines wanted them for their assault ships so bought the rights.

[juddy]

I think the U.S. Marine Corps own the Harrier designs and rights now. The poms couldn't afford to do necessary upgrades and modernisation. The Marines wanted them for their assault ships so bought the rights.

Nothing to do with the Uk not affording to do any upgrades, most had just been updated any way, the fact of the matter was, the RAF had to make a choice under the SDR of what to keep, fast jets were never going to go, and with Tranch 2/3 still on going with BAE on the Typhoon that would have been costly to get out of.

The Marines got the jets for some stupid price.

[bob10]

Hopefully they will have the bugs out by the time they are needed, Bob


BBC News - Farnborough Airshow: F-35 will not appear says Pentagon (http://www.bbc.com/news/business-28321023)

[bob10]

Nothing to do with the Uk not affording to do any upgrades, most had just been updated any way, the fact of the matter was, the RAF had to make a choice under the SDR of what to keep, fast jets were never going to go, and with Tranch 2/3 still on going with BAE on the Typhoon that would have been costly to get out of.

The Marines got the jets for some stupid price.


The Brits sold their remaining Harriers to the US, to be used as spares. No wonder, the USMC is considering keeping the Harrier going until 2030, Bob


USMC hopes new method for tracking fatigue life will help extend Harrier to 2030 - 6/9/2012 - Flight Global (http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/usmc-hopes-new-method-for-tracking-fatigue-life-will-help-extend-harrier-to-372797/)