Easier to Bleed Clutch Slave Cylinder

[Lionelgee]

Hello All,

I dislike how some things are made more complicated by poorly designed items that are encountered during routine activities. One such thing would be the positioning of the clutch slave cylinder bleed screw being located above the clutch pipe.

A previous owner must have felt the same way. I noticed what I thought to be a non-standard clutch slave cylinder on one of my spare parts Series 3 - a diesel. Upon removal I identified it as a standard slave cylinder that has had its bleed screw modified.

By using a brass hydraulic elbow fitting and a bleed bolt the bleed screw can be located away from the clutch pipe. The result is free access to the bleed screw and it works :). I know what I will be using as standard operating procedure for my other Series 3 Land Rovers when I need to bleed the clutch slave cylinder.

I do not know the names of the parts, however any hydraulic specialist may be able to supply the parts. Just take along your standard clutch slave cylinder and its bleed screw for sizing.

I have taken a series of photographs to show a comparison between normal bleed screws and the adapted one. There are also some exploded view photographs of the bleed screw parts. The last cluster of photographs show the finished item. The adapted bleed screw has been positioned to have clearance all the way around it unlike the background of the last photograph suggests

I hope this makes your next clutch slave cylinder bleeding process less of a bleeding task in the future.

Kind Regards
Lionel

[Lionelgee]

Hello All,

Gee did I have some fun tracking down a supplier for the two copper washers! I went to three places today. Jacobsen Engineering, a truck place and then a specialist diesel injector place. Third time lucky. The brass elbow is a banjo fitting and the bolt is a banjo bolt.

No one knew the origins of the banjo fitting elbow. I guess that it is off a tractor. I will track down a supplier of the banjo fittings and post it up.

My wife Leeann had to act as a chauffeur as I still cannot see properly. Wasn't Leeann happy driving around town for the three copper washers, worth the massive amount of ... $2.75. We chewed through lots more than that in fuel :mad:

Kind Regards
Lionel

[gromit]

The hollow bolt & banjo fitting are used in pneumatics but I haven't seen the version you have where the outlet is at roughly 45degrees.

If I remember I'll ask a couple of contacts in the industry.


Colin

[Lionelgee]

The hollow bolt & banjo fitting are used in pneumatics but I haven't seen the version you have where the outlet is at roughly 45degrees.

If I remember I'll ask a couple of contacts in the industry.


Colin

Hello Colin,

Thanks for the reply and the idea asking your contacts.

The bloke at the diesel injector specialist suggested the part could be banjo fitting from the hydraulics industry.

I was going to see the local folks at Enzed - maybe in a couple of days time when the chauffeur won't bite too much :p

Kind Regards
Lionel

[gromit]

Hello Colin,

Thanks for the reply and the idea asking your contacts.

The bloke at the diesel injector specialist suggested the part could be banjo fitting from the hydraulics industry.

I was going to see the local folks at Enzed - maybe in a couple of days time when the chauffeur won't bite too much :p

Kind Regards
Lionel

I'd have to check what pressure can be generated in a brake system but pneumatic ones should be OK. Problem is most will be a BSP thread which will not match the bleed nipple on the slave cylinder.
Originally it would be UNF but not sure with pattern parts. The hex size of a pattern nipple is metric but probably with a UNF thread.

Best of luck at Enzed.


Colin

[Lionelgee]

Hello All,

I have been working on Batty today and swapped over the brake pedal box and clutch pedal box. These were complete with new respective master cylinders. In preparation for tomorrow's work I scoped out the clutch slave cylinder and knock me down with a feather - what do I see?

Gee - that banjo fitting on the clutch slave cylinder sure looks familiar! :o Batty is an ex-Army Fitted for Radio so I went under my other FFR and knock me down with a feather it had one too :cool:

The interesting thing is I found the first modified bleed screw originally on a civilian Series 3 with a stock standard 2.25 litre diesel - so a four cylinder.

It may not be a coincidence that two FFRs have the same fitting.

Colin and other Series 3 FFR owners - do you want to check to see if the bleed screw adaptation was an Army thing or a specialist FFR modification?

I also noticed that the slave cylinder is swapped around on both Army modifications as they have the bleed screw on the bottom and the clutch line on the top.

Colin my pressure brake bleeder recommends not pumping up above 15 psi. So maybe there is not much more pressure within both hydraulic systems; above say, 30 psi. It would make sense to recommend a figure that allowed some safety margin before any seals get blown out.

Kind Regards
Lionel

[Peter O]

My Series 3 has the same fitting, I thought it was standard on the Series 3 and first appeared on our old diesel series2a

[Lionelgee]

My Series 3 has the same fitting, I thought it was standard on the Series 3 and first appeared on our old diesel series2a

G'day Peter,

Well the information about the adaptor coming on a Series 2A diesel is interesting. I have a number of Parts Catalogues and they are not shown or mentioned.

I browsed through my Australian Army Repair Parts Scale 6 cylinder petrol Engine Manual Transmission Land Rover Series 3 November 1988 Issue 1 and the part is described as:

Bolt fluid Pressure UNF Steel CAD plate D, 3/8 In. by 1-1/4 LG

Washer flat Banjo Bolt

Connector multiple fluid pressure brass angled , W/3/8 In., UNF Female Thread and 7/16 in. I.D. Eye 1-5/8 in. OA LG

Washer flat round copper 3/8 In. ID 19/32 IN. OD 0.048 in THK

The details are on Page 97

Kind Regards
Lionel

[Lionelgee]

Hello Peter and other interested readers,

Peter was absolutely correct.

After finding the part in my Army Parts Scales I grabbed a copy of my Green Book the Land Rover Series 3 Repair Operation Manual (1981); I found the parts pictured in there. I then looked up my more recent Brooklands (1988) Parts Catalogue; parts pictured in there. I then went back to my genuine Land Rover 1975 parts manual and found the parts listed in there too :angel:.

The Parts are listed as:
Banjo Bolt 512235
Washer 216914
Banjo Slave Cylinder Bleed 90622182
Washer 233220
Bleed Screw 556508

So what must have happened is when people like myself buy an aftermarket slave cylinder they only come with a bleed screw. They must no longer come with a banjo fittings and people just use what came in the box. Earlier a previous owner must have thrown out the old slave cylinder which had the banjo fittings still attached. This then becomes the normal practise as other clutch slave cylinders are purchased. Then one day muggins-me comes along and I think that I have found a brilliant adaptation that a previous owner did. ;)

My apologies for steering people down the wrong path. Gee no wonder it was previously hard to bleed my brand new clutch slave cylinder - it was missing some old parts! Parts that the clutch slave cylinder was designed to have in the first place. Doh!

Postscript:

I checked on John Craddock's site and also LR Series and they both sell the banjo fitting 90622182 - Banjo Slave Cylinder Bleed Series 3 (http://www.johncraddockltd.co.uk/series/series-3/parts/clutch/hydraulics/90622182-banjo-slave-cylinder-bleed-series-3.html)
Banjo bolt 512235 http://www.johncraddockltd.co.uk/land-rover-parts/512235-banjo-bolt-series-3-slave-cylinder-and-lhd-2a-slave-cylinder.html
Washer 216914 http://www.johncraddockltd.co.uk/land-rover-parts/216914-copper-washer-for-brake-pipes.html
Washer 233220 http://www.johncraddockltd.co.uk/search/results.html's=233220
Bleed screws are readily available on eBay 556508

Kind Regards
Lionel

[Peter O]

G'day Lionel
You are right about the replacement slaves only coming with the standard bleed screw . I just replaced mine and had to swap the banjo fitting over.

On my Series 3 the original metal pipe fits to the top and the banjo fitting goes at the bottom and points to the bottom edge of the chassis. It helps with clearance around the PTO shaft too.

Cheers

[Lionelgee]

G'day Lionel
You are right about the replacement slaves only coming with the standard bleed screw . I just replaced mine and had to swap the banjo fitting over.

On my Series 3 the original metal pipe fits to the top and the banjo fitting goes at the bottom and points to the bottom edge of the chassis. It helps with clearance around the PTO shaft too.

Cheers

G'day Peter & Other Interested Parties,

I made a number of assumptions that were based off what parts arrived in a box that contained the clutch slave cylinder. I also watched a Land Rover Toolbox video that shows a clutch slave cylinder coming out of what looks like a Land Rover marked box. Seen at the 0:39 time mark. It just looked like the clutch slave cylinder that I took off my Series 3 diesel.

The positioning of the bleed screw at the top both matched how it was on my Land Rover I took the slave cylinder from. It was also the same positioning on the Land Rover Toolbox video at the 1:15, removal at 2:40 and installation at the 4:49 time marks.

It was clearly a case of "monkey-see-monkey" do on my part :angel: While the Land Rover Toolbox video is of a Trailerfitters LDV Convoy Ambulance that is fitted with a 200tdi engine and fitted with a LT77 gear box. The spare parts retails show that the same clutch slave cylinder is used for both Series 3 and Defender models so I thought their positioning would be the same. I would have thought that the mechanic on the video would have been following the correct procedure and fitting all the correct parts that are meant to be there.

The Land Rover Toolbox video accessed 18th of July from, Replacing and reverse bleeding - clutch slave cylinder Land Rover. - YouTube

Kind Regards
Lionel

[gromit]

The hollow bolt & banjo fitting are non wearing items so I'm guessing that's why they are not included when you buy a slave cylinder.
Also the copper washers can be annealed & re-used several times.
A bleed nipple is included because they can get damaged by ham-fisted operators....

Bleed nipple at the top should make it easier to get air bubbles out but bleed nipple at the bottom might put the flexi pipe in a better position or make the nipple easier to get to (I'd have to have a look when I'm next bleeding a clutch).

I'll also have to look and see if any of mine have the banjo fitting.


Colin