What is the point

[derpomz]

I am a genuine baby boomer, born shortly after WW2.

I made the mistake of having a look at parliament question time.
Looking at these rich over indulgent polies spruking their crap, i have come to the conclusion that compulsary voting is a waste of time. Why?, because nobody would bother voting for the bunch of stupid, childish idiots that are there now.

Have a look at the Senate and Clive Palmers party, if this is the best this country can dish up, then whats the point. This country is so over governed, especially when it comes to the laws and education, that its about time we scrapped all these useless state governments and have one law, one hospital system and one education program that benefits everybody.

In my opinion, if we did this, we all would have more money and less dickheads telling us how to spend it.

[ramblingboy42]

In The Drum today John Hewson put a particularly good story on his attitude to the current crop of parliamentarians and their approach to government.

He was not short in saying how he felt either.

[jx2mad]

I too am an early baby boomer. When I was on the road for my job I liked listening to question time debates......but that was 30+ years ago. Today I refuse to listen to the garbage they call debate. Jim

[Chucaro]

I am from the same generation and have the same views about the people that govern us.
It is an embarrassment.
I would like to see more Barry Jones there but I am afraid that they are in danger of extinction :(

[bob10]

Well, I'm an Australian, born 1948. Baby boomers? who decided to label people, Gen x, gen y, gen wtf, I thought, young & old, we were all in this together. Looking around, I was wrong. From top to bottom, people are in it for what they can get out of it. No wonder we have the politicians we deserve, when they come from a public base like that. Don't blame the politicians, blame the society we live in.


When people think it is ok to trash the bush, on their 4wd trips, when there is "road rage", over silly incidents, when neighbours have battles over minor , inconsequential incidents, when politicians cater to the lowest common denominator , because they know they'll vote for them, instead of concentrating what is good for the Nation, this Nation will continue to drift down to the lowest common denominator. And we will probably deserve it.


My Father was born in 1932, and just before he died, he told he was ready to go, he said this country was not the country he grew up in, he said his biggest disappointment was knowing his grandchildren would grow up to a very uncertain future, and he said the fools were taking over from the wise men. I took that with a grain of salt, turns out he was smarter than I thought. Bob

[Chucaro]

Bob. what your father have to said is the same that many of us saying now.
How many people are not prepared to give a go to policies to look after the environment because they can affect their style of life?
How many people go against the advice of science and do not care about what can happen to their children and their children?
Greed rules mate and that affect humans in many ways.

[S3ute]

Hello from Zimbabwe.

I work in this place from time to time and, sadly, many people here have died for the democracy that they genuinely crave. Others are languishing in gaol or bear the physical and mental scars of living in a non-democracy.

While contemporary Australian politics is a disappointment to many of us, I would genuinely caution about too carelessly throwing our democracy away. This includes not voting because you don't like the clowns that emerge - too easy.

This great nation is, believe it or not, one of the world's oldest democracies (that's correct - there aren't a lot around) and it should be a source of pride rather than derision to the lot of us.

Cheers,

[bob10]

Hello from Zimbabwe.

I work in this place from time to time and, sadly, many people here have died for the democracy that they genuinely crave. Others are languishing in gaol or bear the physical and mental scars of living in a non-democracy.

While contemporary Australian politics is a disappointment to many of us, I would genuinely caution about too carelessly throwing our democracy away. This includes not voting because you don't like the clowns that emerge - too easy.

This great nation is, believe it or not, one of the world's oldest democracies (that's correct - there aren't a lot around) and it should be a source of pride rather than derision to the lot of us.

Cheers,


Don't worry mate, there are quite a few of us that will not give up, even if we have to belt some sense into the fools who are running the country at the moment. When you think about the genesis of our democracy , that's a given. Bob

[UncleHo]

I am a War Timer, 1943, and I learnt very early in my life from my family that one never becomes involved in discussions about religion or politics ;)
But I do think that the current schooling could be improved by teaching both the basic literacy and numeracy as well as general knowledge about the Westminster system of government.

[bob10]

I am a War Timer, 1943, and I learnt very early in my life from my family that one never becomes involved in discussions about religion or politics ;)
But I do think that the current schooling could be improved by teaching both the basic literacy and numeracy as well as general knowledge about the Westminster system of government.


Uncle, my mob were involved with the great shearers strike in Qld. We were brought up to have your say, and not to back down to those who would trample workers under foot. Unfortunately, the political party they formed, has lost it's way a bit. Gone off track, you could say. The best they can do at the moment, is try to keep parliament honest. Even though some of their own members have lost sight of that concept. Bob


Shearer (http://worksite.actu.org.au/shearers-strike-broken-beaten/)

[bob10]

Just to go a bit further, the minimum wage, how it came about, Bob


The Harvester judgement and Australia's minimum wage - ACTU Worksite for Schools (http://worksite.actu.org.au/the-harvester-judgement-and-australias-minimum-wage/)

[ramblingboy42]

ok, seeing we are this far into this , I will put this link up to Dr John Hewsons warm blast at our current politicians.
Palmer the one to keep the bastards honest? - The Drum (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-07-14/hewson-palmer-the-one-to-keep-the-bastards-honest/5594624)

[bob10]

ok, seeing we are this far into this , I will put this link up to Dr John Hewsons warm blast at our current politicians.
Palmer the one to keep the bastards honest? - The Drum (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-07-14/hewson-palmer-the-one-to-keep-the-bastards-honest/5594624)


Yes, but we must understand Palmer is a loose cannon, who has suddenly found himself in the big time. I don't think he has a clue, to be honest. It would be a great mistake to give him any more power. All he has done is take the focus off the traditional political foes, and given a focus to those who would vote informal anyway, or those who want to give a protest vote. Go down the Palmer avenue, is a recipe for disaster. Just my opinion. Bob

[mikehzz]

If voting was optional labor would never get into government again.

Then we could be just like America. Replace the ABC with Foxtel? So much to look forward to... A Daily Telegraph wet dream.

[Greatsouthernland]

Ooo :ninja: ooO

[incisor]

from my perspective

the "intent" is that there can be chat about current affairs but not to the point where party politics is dragged into the discussion.

some people take it that any mention of the current government policy is a party political comment and so the drivel starts again.

in my tiny mind i thought surely people could comment on the current state of affairs and/or the people that currently are supposed to represent all australians with out it descending into party political debate.

sadly, it is becoming pretty obvious that some simply cannot get their head around the idea though and chat about current affairs has to be politically driven.

[Chucaro]

This thread needs an expert in how to sidetrack it so politics are out . :)

[derpomz]

I started something and now will respond.

I came here from the old dart in 1970, having been born in 1948.

This is NOT meant to be against race. religion or sexuality. The reason i left the UK was because other religions were starting to influence the political landscape and i will go no further on this subject, but i think you know what i mean.
When we arrived we thought this place was paradise. The jobs ads in the papers were about 2 inches thick. Crime and drugs were not such an issues. i should kown as i am retired Policeman after 32 years service.

The changes i have seen shock me to the core. Gone are the days when Polies listened and also the courts. There is just this wilfull spite developing between Australians and its not right. Why is there so much anger around. Kids have always had an eye on the grog, but not like today. You could say things that today you can get locked up for, whats happening. The use of the American language is creeping so much it makes my groin itch.

Kids today seem to have lost something, but who do you blame and why do you want somebody to blame, is it the parents, the schools, who have lost the plot, i wish i knew the answer. What i do see is lack of regard for anybody and anything.

There i have vented again.

[Greatsouthernland]

This thread needs an expert in how to sidetrack it so politics are out . :)

Know any? :p that aren't environmentalists :o :D ;) :cool:

Maybe a rap debate is in order, such as this....



George Washington vs William Wallace. Epic Rap Battles of History Season 3. - YouTube

It is said Scotland is only famous for its haggis and golf?

[Greatsouthernland]

I started something and now will respond.

I came here from the old dart in 1970, having been born in 1948.

This is NOT meant to be against race. religion or sexuality. The reason i left the UK was because other religions were starting to influence the political landscape and i will go no further on this subject, but i think you know what i mean.
When we arrived we thought this place was paradise. The jobs ads in the papers were about 2 inches thick. Crime and drugs were not such an issues. i should kown as i am retired Policeman after 32 years service.

The changes i have seen shock me to the core. Gone are the days when Polies listened and also the courts. There is just this wilfull spite developing between Australians and its not right. Why is there so much anger around. Kids have always had an eye on the grog, but not like today. You could say things that today you can get locked up for, whats happening. The use of the American language is creeping so much it makes my groin itch.

Kids today seem to have lost something, but who do you blame and why do you want somebody to blame, is it the parents, the schools, who have lost the plot, i wish i knew the answer. What i do see is lack of regard for anybody and anything.

There i have vented again.

Thanks Pom, just so you know, my comment on politics wasn't at your post, it was the one about a party not getting in if voting wasn't compulsory (:eek: which has been deleted :eek: :ninja: ). That opens up a whole 'my mob is right, yours is wrong slanging match'.

Yes I know a few Brits who are disappointed with the way the Euro system has changed the UK. I can see that there are those who miss the old social demographic.

As a fifth gen Aussie, whose relatives were not convicts and arrived in SA (apparently the only state not settled by convicts?) are from English, Irish, German and Swedish origin... So welcome from the old Dart, but I hope you don't expect it to be a lot better here in the religion influencing politics sense, there are certain socio-political groups advocating for more 'compassion' on border policy which will lead to what has happened in the UK, just my view...remember the 'fresh meat' and rape is acceptable scandal about 10 years ago.

As for who is to blame, kids and alcohol, escalating violence...that's a big topic, but I do think our society is too liberal with the booze and bogan lifestyle. Drinking age should be 21 (as it was) and nightclubs don't need to be open til 3am, this is where greed in the business sense (pubs, nightclubs, breweries, casinos) overrides sound political judgement.

As for crime, as a retired plod, surely you can see that the criminal is given too much protection, the homeowner is to blame if an 'alleged' criminal injures themselves breaking in. The sentence 'if any' doesn't fit the crime.

Why does Qld have a more supportive 'Castle Law' than the other states?

But back on track, don't give up. What to do? I'm all ears :cool:

[Greatsouthernland]

...This country is so over governed, especially when it comes to the laws and education, that its about time we scrapped all these useless state governments and have one law, one hospital system and one education program that benefits everybody.

In my opinion, if we did this, we all would have more money and less dickheads telling us how to spend it.

Agreed. The 3 tiers of government is a drain on resources.

Once we all get over the unsubstantiated loyalty to our home state and become passionate about Australia as a Nation, we will move forward.

How to do it? Local province I.e. Council region and Federal governing body. By all means use the state borders to delineate the province, but the state government does not need to be in the middle of the local council and Federal government. The house of reps essentially becomes the province/region leaders place of action. It needs detail, but removing state politics and placing local regions as the direct link to the Federal system is a start.

I'm not a politician...and haven't given it a lot of thought, it would have to be a brave political member, perhaps an independent, to put it forward?

[bob10]

I started something and now will respond.

I came here from the old dart in 1970, having been born in 1948.

This is NOT meant to be against race. religion or sexuality. The reason i left the UK was because other religions were starting to influence the political landscape and i will go no further on this subject, but i think you know what i mean.
When we arrived we thought this place was paradise. The jobs ads in the papers were about 2 inches thick. Crime and drugs were not such an issues. i should kown as i am retired Policeman after 32 years service.

The changes i have seen shock me to the core. Gone are the days when Polies listened and also the courts. There is just this wilfull spite developing between Australians and its not right. Why is there so much anger around. Kids have always had an eye on the grog, but not like today. You could say things that today you can get locked up for, whats happening. The use of the American language is creeping so much it makes my groin itch.

Kids today seem to have lost something, but who do you blame and why do you want somebody to blame, is it the parents, the schools, who have lost the plot, i wish i knew the answer. What i do see is lack of regard for anybody and anything.

There i have vented again.


Almost exactly what my Father said. He was disgusted the way modern Australia was going. I know this much, In country Qld, there is still respect , in the areas I have been, at least, for doing the right thing. Respect of other people. It seems, the smaller the community, the more self regulating it tends to be. The further you get from the big cities, the better it is, With the exception of some of our indigenous communities, but that is a different problem. Don't despair, there are still good people here, but unfortunately, not in Canberra, Bob

[mikehzz]

Firstly let me say, people love to have a whinge. Some people would whinge while having sex. I reckon things are way better now than say, 50 years ago. The crime rate is actually lower, the death rate from car accidents is lower, people live longer, almost everyone has an inside toilet...that's a good one..., the general level of wealth is way higher. I'm ordinary and I own 3 cars. My parents could barely afford one until they were pretty old. Overseas travel is very common because people can afford it. The standard of education is higher. Women have opportunities now. Indigenous people have representation...hell they are allowed to vote. They couldn't do that 50 years ago. I don't know what bull**** Australia the whingers have been living in before because it doesn't stand up to actual facts in my opinion.

[bob10]

Firstly let me say, people love to have a whinge. Some people would whinge while having sex. I reckon things are way better now than say, 50 years ago. The crime rate is actually lower, the death rate from car accidents is lower, people live longer, almost everyone has an inside toilet...that's a good one..., the general level of wealth is way higher. I'm ordinary and I own 3 cars. My parents could barely afford one until they were pretty old. Overseas travel is very common because people can afford it. The standard of education is higher. Women have opportunities now. Indigenous people have representation...hell they are allowed to vote. They couldn't do that 50 years ago. I don't know what bull**** Australia the whingers have been living in before because it doesn't stand up to actual facts in my opinion.


None of the above has any relevance to the facts. Years ago, no doors were locked. There wasn't a massive drug problem. People couldn't see the sense in having 3 cars, one was enough, and while we are on that, quality of life wasn't measured by how many possessions a person had. Ask an indigenous person if they feel privileged to live in the townships set up for them by those who knew best. 50 years ago, I was 16. I dispute your assertion . And, " hell, they are allowed to vote", just about says it all, for you. Bob

[Sitec]

I'm a relative newby to this glorious country, having come from Europe, and I know that even tho people didn't always agree on what had been decided etc, they got on with it and that was that.. Here on the other hand, I've never seen such a farce in parliament... Day in and day out seems to be spent throwing crap at the opposition... and they seem to have no idea with reality. There's so many issues (migration, import, export, prospects, economy, services etc etc) that need dealing with... and quickly. If it does not happen, this glorious country will no longer be as you remember it... Christmas will not be celebrated in certain areas, its heritage will disappear, its history is in places, the locals will really be struggling for work.. I only hope that someone high up wakes up and sees what's actually happening here!! Australia, look after yourself.... Number 1!!

[Chucaro]

Firstly let me say, people love to have a whinge. Some people would whinge while having sex. I reckon things are way better now than say, 50 years ago. The crime rate is actually lower, the death rate from car accidents is lower, people live longer, almost everyone has an inside toilet...that's a good one..., the general level of wealth is way higher. I'm ordinary and I own 3 cars. My parents could barely afford one until they were pretty old. Overseas travel is very common because people can afford it. The standard of education is higher. Women have opportunities now. Indigenous people have representation...hell they are allowed to vote. They couldn't do that 50 years ago. I don't know what bull**** Australia the whingers have been living in before because it doesn't stand up to actual facts in my opinion.

I do not agree with you, we lost the most important things, ethics, family values, greed for materialistic things took over compassion and fair go.
Your example about your parents that were unable to afford a car and you have 3 not only reinforce my point but also put in doubt what you think that was of value to your parents.
My parents do not have a car, they do not need one but I do not think that they were unhappy about it, they have 3 sons to whom they provide health care, education and morals. That it is wealth mate, not cars.

[Greatsouthernland]

This clip says it all to me. It reminds me why I love this country and while I listen (and watch) I feel there's hope for us all.

It's why I chose my forum name and it's why I bought a Landrover, to get out there and enjoy it and let my wife and kids enjoy it.

Gods bless this country and all Australians :D

This Is Australia - Great Southern Land - YouTube

[mikehzz]

None of the above has any relevance to the facts. Years ago, no doors were locked. There wasn't a massive drug problem. People couldn't see the sense in having 3 cars, one was enough, and while we are on that, quality of life wasn't measured by how many possessions a person had. Ask an indigenous person if they feel privileged to live in the townships set up for them by those who knew best. 50 years ago, I was 16. I dispute your assertion . And, " hell, they are allowed to vote", just about says it all, for you. Bob

My point was that indigenous people were not allowed to vote back then and yet people are implying it was a glorious age that has passed us by. How people could not be treated as people was a disgrace. I'm not far behind you age wise and can remember a massive drug problem called alcohol. There was a pub on every corner, men would go there after work every day and women weren't allowed in. Great times, pity they are gone. Not.

[JDNSW]

Agreed. The 3 tiers of government is a drain on resources.

Once we all get over the unsubstantiated loyalty to our home state and become passionate about Australia as a Nation, we will move forward.

How to do it? Local province I.e. Council region and Federal governing body. By all means use the state borders to delineate the province, but the state government does not need to be in the middle of the local council and Federal government. The house of reps essentially becomes the province/region leaders place of action. It needs detail, but removing state politics and placing local regions as the direct link to the Federal system is a start.

I'm not a politician...and haven't given it a lot of thought, it would have to be a brave political member, perhaps an independent, to put it forward?

How to do it? Basically, you would have to say that it is impossible. You need to remember that the states are the basic component of the country, not the federation. There is no mechanism for abolishing the states. Abolishing local government is easy - all it needs is to pass a bill in the state parliament - not even an election issue (see various State government forced council amalgamations! Some states may not even requirew legislation.). Abolishing the federation is more difficult, but could be done - it would need change in the constitution requiring a majority of votes and a majority of states.

But as far as I can see, there is no available mechanism to abolish states, even if there was an overwhelming wish to do so. Effective abolition could possibly be achieved by transferring powers from states to the federal government, but don't hold your breath. Even where clear cases for this exist, states are reluctant to do this, and voters even more reluctant.

John

[Chucaro]

Something to read:

Issues, Problems and Solutions in State Abolition, (http://www.beyondfederation.org.au/ja2-8th.html)

[bob10]

My point was that indigenous people were not allowed to vote back then and yet people are implying it was a glorious age that has passed us by. How people could not be treated as people was a disgrace. I'm not far behind you age wise and can remember a massive drug problem called alcohol. There was a pub on every corner, men would go there after work every day and women weren't allowed in. Great times, pity they are gone. Not.


You obviously lived in a different world to me. No one has said it was a glorious age, just that the World was different, more innocent, children could play out in the street until dark, Police & adults were respected. You seem to be saying that advances in social justice have made this country in to some kind of Nirvana. Yes, they have made it better, in the terms of equality, but this is not a better country than 50 years ago. No amount of spin will prove that. Bob

[benji]

I'm well into the gen y myself, so in the nicest possible way, I don't have the life experience of others.
But I grew up in a community where you didn't lock the car or the doors, and where mum and the neighbours really did ask each other for eggs and flour.

I think we all lament things from the past, and like things about the present - but I feel there is a lack of respect and trust that dissappeared somewhere in the 90s.

As a teacher one poignant snippet for me is the fact that in 35 years we've gone from teaching Latin and Greek to teaching remedial English.....

I think the drug problem (which is way bigger than years gone by) is only a product of higher population density.

Sent from my GT-I9305T using AULRO mobile app

[mikehzz]

Sitting around lamenting that society has gone down the toilet is either a gross insult to young people, or an admission of failure by those doing the lamenting. That doesn't stop every generation from doing it though. You have to wonder if there is any credence to it or if it is just old people crapping on. "Back in my day...."blah blah. Fair dinkum, we must be a fair way down the toilet by now. No, things are better now....they're crapping on for sure, in my opinion of course.

[Mick_Marsh]

children could play out in the street until dark
Now they wander the streets at night.

[derpomz]

Firstly let me say, people love to have a whinge. Some people would whinge while having sex. I reckon things are way better now than say, 50 years ago. The crime rate is actually lower, the death rate from car accidents is lower, people live longer, almost everyone has an inside toilet...that's a good one..., the general level of wealth is way higher. I'm ordinary and I own 3 cars. My parents could barely afford one until they were pretty old. Overseas travel is very common because people can afford it. The standard of education is higher. Women have opportunities now. Indigenous people have representation...hell they are allowed to vote. They couldn't do that 50 years ago. I don't know what bull**** Australia the whingers have been living in before because it doesn't stand up to actual facts in my opinion.

You are typical about what i have been saying. You have no sense of whats going on in this country. You think everything is measured in possessions. Wake up and smell the roses my friend before you will have to sell of all your possesions because the government has lost all our money. Think about other people before yourself.
If you think the standard of education is higher, then you are on the wrong planet. People who travel overseas need to see this country first. I have and i dont like what i see. Think why people go overseas, because its too expensive to travel here. I was in the UK last year where i bought a very large piece of pork for a bbq, it cost less than $20.00, how much is pork here, just an example. Travel to other countries and they will tell you this place is the most expensive to visit, why, because the governments over the years have not listened.

[Chucaro]

Sitting around lamenting that society has gone down the toilet is either a gross insult to young people, or an admission of failure by those doing the lamenting. That doesn't stop every generation from doing it though. You have to wonder if there is any credence to it or if it is just old people crapping on. "Back in my day...."blah blah. Fair dinkum, we must be a fair way down the toilet by now. No, things are better now....they're crapping on for sure, in my opinion of course.

For your information I am not lamenting, I am concerned.
I do not know what happens in your case but in mine there is no failure, I have raised my two children with high moral values, give them education and show the right way in life and I do not claim sole credit for it, my parents teach me that way and his parents done the same with them.
Perhaps we, the ones with opposed view than yours have different values and for that reason you cannot appreciate our point of view.

[derpomz]

Sitting around lamenting that society has gone down the toilet is either a gross insult to young people, or an admission of failure by those doing the lamenting. That doesn't stop every generation from doing it though. You have to wonder if there is any credence to it or if it is just old people crapping on. "Back in my day...."blah blah. Fair dinkum, we must be a fair way down the toilet by now. No, things are better now....they're crapping on for sure, in my opinion of course.

Tell me what has happened to plain old respect, not only to yourself, but to others. People today seem to have forgotten about whats right and wrong and seem to care only about self. Yes in my day things were different, but people respected things, today it seems that the young dont or wont acceprt things and in fact seem to get angry when things dont go thier way. You can bring up your kids anyway you like, but once they get around others they seem to lack the will to stand up and be counted. If i did something wrong as kid, i knew i was in trouble, today it seems that parents want to blame everything but thier kids and wont accept or punish kids for thier wrong doing.

Are we down the crapper, not yet, but we will be if thoings and atittudes dont change soon.

[Greatsouthernland]

Something to read:

Issues, Problems and Solutions in State Abolition, (http://www.beyondfederation.org.au/ja2-8th.html)

Interesting......(except the republic bit). :angel:

[JDNSW]

Interesting......(except the republic bit). :angel:
But has nothing to say about the simple fact that there is no credible mechanism for it to ever happen. (Creating a republic has a quite simple mechanism, but is unlikely to be achievable unless and until there is overwhelming public and bipartisan support for it)

There is a mechanism for creating more states, and an easier route to the outcome proposed would be to subdivide states until they effectively become "local", followed (or preceded) by abolition of local government, which, as I pointed out in an earlier post, is simple.

But all previous attempts to subdivide states have been failures, although I seem to remember a couple getting as far as a referendum that was unsuccessful.

John