Sikaflex 252 or SikaFast 3131S or ???

[Lionelgee]

Hello All,

I would like to use Sikaflex to fix aluminium sheeting onto a steel frame. It will one day be a trailer mounted camper. There seems to be a choice between either a 1 component Sikaflex or a 2 component SikaFast 3131S adhesives.

I am converting a tray mounted camper that a previous owner had built for a Series 3 Long Wheel Base. I intend to replace the heavy marine grade ply external sheets with aluminium sheeting. The ply sheeting has also seen better days. The steel frame is still in good condition.

When I had the frame of the bonnet replaced the now retired boilermaker - trailer maker used a type of Sikaflex however I cannot remember which one he used. The bloke has closed shop and gone fishing.

What products do people use to bond aluminium or steel sheeting for their Land Rover or camper construction?

Is there another Sikaflex product that I have not mentioned that you use? If so what would it be?

Kind Regards
Lionel

[LandyAndy]

I used 252 on my trailer,great stuff.
Yesterday I picked up 2 tubes from UES,different brand,they say the same or better.It was half the price of Sikaflex from Bunnings.MAKE SURE you check use by dates when buying,it has a short shelf life.

If you are not familiar with UES they do all sorts of transport gear,see their website.
UES International - Transportation and Industrial Hardware (http://uesint.com/)
Andrew

[klonk]

I got told the other day by a mate that works in the marine industry to never use black sikaflex on aluminium as it has more salt in it than the white stuff and causes corrosion. The proper sikaflex marine adhesive is white, can't rember the number.


Cheers Steve

[Hoges]

There's a likelihood of dissimilar metal corrosion in bonding aluminium to steel. There's a 3M double sided tape used in the motor repair industry which has been used with some success in that it prevents contact between metals, but needs a chisel (literally) to separate the parts once joined...so you have to have your panels dead set square when you go to stick it all together.


EDIT: Actually... go with the Sikaflex...see http://robgray.com/graynomad/wothahellizat/wot2/diaries/diary_19/index.php#cladding read April 21 entry...Fastening ..he went with the 252 with the 205 cleaner and 210 primer

[123rover50]

Perhaps I am wrong but I use 227 for everything:(

Keith

[Lionelgee]

Actually... go with the Sikaflex...see Rob Gray :: graynomad :: wothahellizat :: wot2 :: diaries :: diary_19 (http://robgray.com/graynomad/wothahellizat/wot2/diaries/diary_19/index.php#cladding) read April 21 entry...Fastening ..he went with the 252 with the 205 cleaner and 210 primer

G'day Hoges,

Thank you for Rob Gray's link because his description rings bells in my memory box from talking to the now retired, gone fishing trailer builder. Oh, some of his trailers were big enough to drive a Long Wheel Base four wheel drive into and have it totally covered from the elements.

Anyway, Rob Gray describes how - Using Sikaflex I looked on the Sika website, They state quite clearly that 252 is the recommended product for panels on truck bodies. I rang Sika here in Australia and got the same answer so that's what I'm using.

They also state that the area to be glued should be cleaned with their 205 cleaner and primed with 210 primer.


The trailer builder - boilermaker, also suggested that the bond of the adhesive forms an airtight barrier. This acts as an effective separation of aluminium and steel and this prevents the reaction of dissimilar metals/alloys from occurring.


Kind Regards
Lionel

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Perhaps I am wrong but I use 227 for everything:(

KeithIt depends upon whether you want a sealant or an adhesive. I'm guessing that Lionel needs an adhesive.

Sikaflex-227 is a one-component polyurethane sealant designed for car body construction, curing on exposure to atmospheric moisture to form a durable elastomer. (Automotive)

Sikaflex-252 is a non-sag 1-c polyurethane adhesive of stiff, paste-like consistency that cures on exposure to atmospheric humidity to form a durable elastomer. (Industrial)

Sikaflex-255 Extra+ is a high performance, elastic, gap-filling, one part polyurethane adhesive that cures on exposure to atmospheric moisture to form a durable elastomer. (Automotive)

Sikaflex-291 is a non-sag 1-c polyurethane sealant specifically developed for the marine market, which cures on exposure to atmospheric moisture form a durable elastomer. (Marine)

[Lionelgee]

It depends upon whether you want a sealant or an adhesive. I'm guessing that Lionel needs an adhesive.

Sikaflex-252 is a non-sag 1-c polyurethane adhesive of stiff, paste-like consistency that cures on exposure to atmospheric humidity to form a durable elastomer. (Industrial)

Sikaflex-255 Extra+ is a high performance, elastic, gap-filling, one part polyurethane adhesive that cures on exposure to atmospheric moisture to form a durable elastomer. (Automotive)


Hello Diana,

My purpose is to stick, glue, adhere. However, being the semi-Luddite that I am I will use the back up of using rivets as well. I don't trust this newfangled glue stuff all by itself :p

Kind Regards
Lionel

[Lionelgee]

Hello All,

I re-familiarised myself with the repair that the trailer-boiler maker (Retired) did on one of my Land Rovers. It appears that a white product was used. The two part process might have been to use the primer first and then the adhesive. Or perhaps it was primer and a 2 part adhesive.

I found the old business card and since the bloke was self-employed and worked from home, I have left a message on his answering service. He is probably out in the tinny doing some fishing - or even moved away from here totally?

I will be contacting Sika Australia as well. I will post up the reply.

Kind Regards
Lionel

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Hi Lionel

I use the marine sikaflex 291 (on the tube it is labeled as adhesive sealant)

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/07/675.jpg

The white colour annoys me but most applications we have on our Land Rovers etc require both a sealant and an adhesive. And the Sika 291 bonds very well and gives a flexible seal on the edges of the aluminium sheets which you will want.

You are correct the Sika products need to be squeezed tight while they cure. I did this with clamps on Gog, but in large panels a number of strategically located pop rivets are a good idea.

You can even fill the hole in the rivet with excess Sikaflex.

Make sure both sides where the sealant/adhesive will go are very clean and roughing up the surface of the aluminium will give a better bond.

Diana

BTW: You can see the Sika 291 in the joint and I didn't want to add extra pop rivets because it would make the repair obvious.

[Lionelgee]

Hello All,

I have revisited the Sika Australia site and went through their range of "commercial vehicles"

The only two types that come in 250 ml sizes are: SikaFast® 5211 & SikaFast® 5221

These two products are described as ...The ADP technology offers a new generation of fast curing, flexible adhesives designed to substitute welding, riveting, clinching and other mechanical fastening techniques.

Here is the information ...

Commercial Vehicles

Bus and Coach
Truck
Rail
Truck Trailers

Assembly of the Body, Sealing & Bonding in Interior & Exterior -Accessed 16th of July 2014 from, Bonding | Sika Australia Pty. Ltd. (http://aus.sika.com/en/solutions_products/01/01a006/01a006sa01/01a006sa01100/01a006sa01102.html)


SikaFast® 5211

SikaFast-5211 is a fast curing, flexible 2-component adhesive system. It is based on ADP, Sika’s polymer technology, derived from the acrylic chemistry. Uncured SikaFast-5211 is a pasty, non-sagging, non-flammable material which allows an easy and precise application.
Use

The ADP technology offers a new generation of fast curing, flexible adhesives designed to substitute welding, riveting, clinching and other mechanical fastening techniques. SikaFast-5211 is suitable for high strength fastening of concealed joints on different types of substrates including top coats, plastics, glass etc.

SikaFast® 5221

SikaFast-5221 is a fast curing, flexible 2-component adhesive system. It is based on ADP, Sika’s polymer technology, derived from the acrylic chemistry. Uncured SikaFast-5221 is a pasty, non-sagging, non-flammable material which allows an easy and precise application.
Use

The ADP technology offers a new generation of fast curing, flexible adhesives designed to substitute welding, riveting, clinching and other mechanical fastening techniques.

SikaFast-5221 is suitable for high strength fastening of concealed joints on different types of substrates including top coats, plastics, glass etc.

Both are a grey colour - hmmm not the colour of the stuff used on Baldrick. Oh well.

Kind Regards
Lionel

[Spel1]

The white colour annoys me

291 is available in black also.

[clubagreenie]

If you're using 252 (or any adhesive) for our purposes it will act as a sufficient sealant in addition to its adhesion properties, just make sure that the bead is homogenous. You can dispense with the rivets, it's stick better as theres a continuous seam so you don't get and rattling of the panel against the support structure. Also the rivets will introduce the dissimilar material corrosion that you can avoid using the adhesive. To clamp, if sheeting alloy over a steel structure use large magnets.

[CraigE]

I generally use 252 or 255. 255 I find a little better for bonding and water proofing as it is windscreen sealant.
I have used 255 between aluminium sheet and steel angle with no issues what so ever. I have actually just recently removed a frame that I mad using aluminium sheeting and mild steel angle about 5 years ago, no sign of any corrosion, moisture trapping or degradation of any material.
Just be aware that you dont want to have to seperate said materials when set. Very difficult to do so. Also when using make sure you use barrier cream on hands or latex gloves. This stuff gets everywhere very quickly and easy and can be hard to get of skin with no protection.
As said leave it as late as possible to buy as it only has a relatively short shelf life. It is too expensive to waste.

[123rover50]

I have found the white goes chalky after a few years. Only use black now.