Have humans gone mad?

[Chucaro]

I am at lost with the events in the world, have humanity go mad? have drugs something to do with it and we do not know? Is the "cancer of greed"that destroying us?

First the escalation of the Israel Palestinian conflict where now Israel in invading Palestrina.

Now the case of the civilian plane brought down by a missile.

In another news, a football referee in Brazil was beheaded by a mob after he stabbed a player to death over his refusal to leave the field.
(http://www.aljazeera.com/news/americas/2013/07/20137792135480192.html)

I know that are different issues but the bottom line is that life have less and less value :(

Have a look this a picture with thousands words :(

https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpa1/t1.0-9/10505378_10152685318349258_1947154731205303788_n.j pg

[ade]

Pretty naive if you think it's to do with drugs

[AndyG]

Unfortunately that's been human nature since the first man picked up a rock to bash another.

[Chucaro]

Pretty naive if you think it's to do with drugs

No mate, I do not think that have to do with drugs but it is so irrational the behavior that make you think if these people are acting with a clear mind.
To me all come to greed, in this case power, control,etc and from there other factors that are a side effect of it.

[Mick_Marsh]

No mate, I do not think that have to do with drugs
Then why suggest it?

have drugs something to do with it and we do not know?

[ramblingboy42]

it wasn't suggested Mick Marsh , it was questioned.

[DiscoMick]

We live in McWorld in which the population is encouraged to concentrate on getting more to consume more which leaves us dissatisfied so we consume even more, trampling others and insisting on always getting our own way, while obsessed with superficial things which have no lasting value, running around faster and faster, never stopping to think about important stuff like the meaning of life, filling our heads with trivial rubbish, and then we wonder why the world is becoming more chaotic. Selfishness breeds a dog-eat-dog world and tramples on civilization.
And, with that little rant off my chest, I'm off for a hopefully quiet weekend reading (currently Rumpole) and doing as little as possible. Enjoy yours.

[Chucaro]

it wasn't suggested Mick Marsh , it was questioned.

I am used to his replies, I do not know if he cannot understand what I am trying to say or just plain stirring ;)
In this topic, the stir will be out of place.

[Jeff]

I don't think it is something new, remember World War 1, World War 2, The Spanish Inquisition, Stalin's Purges?

It's just that we know more of what's going on around us.

Good things are happening too, well, I keep convincing myself that, otherwise I would be miserable all the time

Jeff

:rocket:

[Roverlord off road spares]

The Israeli /Palestinian conflict will never end. The world for some reason will not hold Israel accountable for anything, is it the anti semitic cry that is heard if any one dares to question Israels actions. Terrorism is rightly frowned upon and it is the battle cry used to defend throwing missiles towards innocent every day people and children. Children seem to be just a sacrifical casualty of this tit for tat skirmishes.
If innocent people are killed in operations where other countries are in conflict there are genocide charges laid. Yet in the middle east no one is held accountable

The world should strongly say to both sides 'enough is enough'
Tell Israel, there is your offical border stay within those boundaries, no ifs or buts for as long as they continue to expand and occupy some else's land there will be retaliation. And who is handing out money to Israel so they can afford all this state of the art weaponry? I doubt Israel can finance all this from their own export earnings.

It's time for the rest of the world to say NO!

[frantic]

Israel tried your suggestion, but outside influence kept supplying Gaza and the west bank with missiles. Now how happy would you be with neighbours climbing out on their balconies and launching rockets over a border at you? How happy would you be in your apartment with hands on the roof launching them, in the knowledge that in the past Israel has been able to track and level the launch points of previous missile attacks?
Would you leave open the supply tunnels sending missiles in for hames to shoot at your civilians?
Israel has had several conventional wars launched against it, not by it,with all its neighbours, which they have won even though out numbered and outgunned. A large majority of the lands they took have been returned to Syria, Egypt, Lebanon and even Palestinian parts yet it is never enough and the attacks continue.

[discovery39]

I hear ya Arthur,
Am not so worried about the Iranians and Serbs, they've been at it for years. They are all as thick as bricks in my opinion.
But closer to home, yes. Society/People seems to have changed! I personally believe its all gone pear shaped. Whether you happen to be sitting in traffic, or standing in line at the shops, peoples attitude is friggin shocking. Way too much impatience, and a lack of respect for others around you. I blame the Internet........;-)

[goingbush]

Have Humans Gone Mad ??

NO, not gone mad, .... always been mad, its just human nature for us to kill each other, cause the extinction of other species, and destroy the planet . Its set in our DNA

speaking of which, they are now making Vegan cheese in a Lab out of HUMAN DNA (so its ok for Vegans to eat a Human product but not an Animal product )

Cheese made from human DNA strands (http://www.skynews.com.au/news/offbeat/2014/07/16/cheese-made-from-human-dna-strands.html)

[Saitch]

Have Humans Gone Mad ??



(so its ok for Vegans to eat a Human product )

Cheese made from human DNA strands (http://www.skynews.com.au/news/offbeat/2014/07/16/cheese-made-from-human-dna-strands.html)
They've been eating **** for years!

[Roverlord off road spares]

They've been eating **** for years!
Soylent green:o

[moretonisle]

Israel tried your suggestion, but outside influence kept supplying Gaza and the west bank with missiles. Now how happy would you be with neighbours climbing out on their balconies and launching rockets over a border at you? How happy would you be in your apartment with hands on the roof launching them, in the knowledge that in the past Israel has been able to track and level the launch points of previous missile attacks?
Would you leave open the supply tunnels sending missiles in for hames to shoot at your civilians?
Israel has had several conventional wars launched against it, not by it,with all its neighbours, which they have won even though out numbered and outgunned. A large majority of the lands they took have been returned to Syria, Egypt, Lebanon and even Palestinian parts yet it is never enough and the attacks continue.

What we are encouraged to forget are - Israels blockade of Gaza since 2008. The cross border killing of Palestinians by drone, helicopter, F16, navy vessels,remotely controlled machine guns mounted on the border etc. Then their is the targeted assasinations whenever things go quiet for awhile.
Israels buffer zone on the border extends as far in to Gaza as they choose. Regularly shooting farmers in the fields. The agreed easing of the blockade after the attack in 2012 never occurred. In fact Israel tightened its restrictions on who and what could cross the border.
Israel has deliberately created a pressure cooker in Gaza.
Did you notice that Hamas was blamed immediately three teenagers went missing? No proof necessary. 700 West Bank Palestinians imprisoned, houses demolished, 7 killed.
The Israelis who admitted to burning to death a Palestinian are treated completely differently.
The rest of the world demands that Israel stop the occupation of the West Bank and the blockade of Gaza. Only Australia, USA and Canada are silent.

[frantic]

What we are encouraged to forget are - Israels blockade of Gaza since 2008. The cross border killing of Palestinians by drone, helicopter, F16, navy vessels,remotely controlled machine guns mounted on the border etc. Then their is the targeted assasinations whenever things go quiet for awhile.
Israels buffer zone on the border extends as far in to Gaza as they choose. Regularly shooting farmers in the fields. The agreed easing of the blockade after the attack in 2012 never occurred. In fact Israel tightened its restrictions on who and what could cross the border.
Israel has deliberately created a pressure cooker in Gaza.
Did you notice that Hamas was blamed immediately three teenagers went missing? No proof necessary. 700 West Bank Palestinians imprisoned, houses demolished, 7 killed.
The Israelis who admitted to burning to death a Palestinian are treated completely differently.
The rest of the world demands that Israel stop the occupation of the West Bank and the blockade of Gaza. Only Australia, USA and Canada are silent.

Yes the situation is not great, but is only inflamed by their neighbours who are massive hypocrites.10-20 Civilians, after, Hamas terrorist attacks, killed in Palestine and 21 UN motions against Israel, 120,000 killed in Syria by their own Govt and 1 motion. Please.s Syria voted for all the motions against Israel.
2013 at the UN: 21 resolutions against Israel, 4 on rest of the world « View from Geneva (http://blog.unwatch.org/index.php/2013/11/25/this-years-22-unga-resolutions-against-israel-4-on-rest-of-world/)

[rovercare]

Unfortunately that's been human nature since the first man picked up a rock to bash another.

That's the norm after a rugby game in png:D

People dumb yea, it's not that it happens more, it's that now you read about **** from all over the globe on your phone daily, whereas 15 years ago you had no idea

Getting worse?.....ah world war 1 or 2. Pretty sure it's been worse...

[derpomz]

What people seem to forget is that in 1948 the British gave Palestine to the Jews after WW2. There was nowhere else to settle them and they had been in various regions for centuries. They had never had a country of thier own. So after WW2 the so called winners said, you can have Palestine.

Now imagine if that happened here what the out cry would be. The world, and in particular the west, is responsible for todays problems. If i lived in my own country and that country had been home to my people for centuries and then all of a sudden it wasnt, would i be ****ed off, your dam right i would be.

This problem in the middle east will never go away until both sides stop fighting and give into reason. The Arabs dont like the Jews and its also the other way round. What hope is there for mankind?, as far as i can see none. We are on a path to self destruction unless we sit up and say thats it, lets have beer and stop fighting each other.

The other factor in todays world is the media. Its been a long time since they reported the news and stopped creating it. The media need to pull thier heads in and stop trying to out sell each other with half truths and inuendo.

[landy]

The worlds gone mad. That was the question/statement. How quickly this thread became an Israeli bashing episode!

The same base issues exist in many parts of the world at different times and in lesser degrees. Asia, Middle East, Europe, South America and Africa. All hot spots right now.
Don't just gang up on one race. We're all ****ed!

Cheers

Nino.

[sheerluck]

The worlds gone mad. That was the question/statement. How quickly this thread became an Israeli bashing episode!

The same base issues exist in many parts of the world at different times and in lesser degrees. Asia, Middle East, Europe, South America and Africa. All hot spots right now.
Don't just gang up on one race. We're all ****ed!

Cheers

Nino.

I agree! There are so many religions/nationalities/tribes that can't live peacefully (with varying degrees of conflict) side by side, and haven't done for countless years.

The Greeks and the Turks
The Scots and the English
The Arabs and the Jews
The Sunni and Shia muslims
Basques and Spaniards
Catholics and Protestants in Northern Ireland
The Hutus and Tutsis in Rwanda
NSW and QLD ;)

So why pick on just one?

[derpomz]

I agree! There are so many religions/nationalities/tribes that can't live peacefully (with varying degrees of conflict) side by side, and haven't done for countless years.

The Greeks and the Turks
The Scots and the English
The Arabs and the Jews
The Sunni and Shia muslims
Basques and Spaniards
Catholics and Protestants in Northern Ireland
The Hutus and Tutsis in Rwanda
NSW and QLD ;)

So why pick on just one?

Dont forget NSW and QLD at state of origin time.

[frantic]

What people seem to forget is that in 1948 the British gave Palestine to the Jews after WW2. There was nowhere else to settle them and they had been in various regions for centuries. They had never had a country of thier own. So after WW2 the so called winners said, you can have Palestine.

Now imagine if that happened here what the out cry would be. The world, and in particular the west, is responsible for todays problems. If i lived in my own country and that country had been home to my people for centuries and then all of a sudden it wasnt, would i be ****ed off, your dam right i would be.

This problem in the middle east will never go away until both sides stop fighting and give into reason. The Arabs dont like the Jews and its also the other way round. What hope is there for mankind?, as far as i can see none. We are on a path to self destruction unless we sit up and say thats it, lets have beer and stop fighting each other.

The other factor in todays world is the media. Its been a long time since they reported the news and stopped creating it. The media need to pull thier heads in and stop trying to out sell each other with half truths and inuendo.

Reality check time. There was never a Palestine. Up until ww1 it was part of Ottoman empire for roughly 600 years.
So using your logic about living there for 100's of years which parts can turkey reclaim? Greece, Lebanon, Iran Iraq Egypt, Serbia, Macedonia, part of Ukraine. Now how about the Austro-Hungarian empire, they owned part of Poland, Serbia, Croatia, etc for a few hundred, until WW1.
Russia has had various levels of ownership of the Ukraine, along with Poland.
Have a look at the Ottoman empire map.
Ottoman - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ottoman)
Then go look at the Austrian map and what they owned with Hungarian empire.
The Jews from 1923 started to increase their ownership of land and properties in the Israel area and where agitating to become a nation before ww2. There where always some there but nowhere near the numbers of today.

We have far worse atrocities occurring on our doorstep with Indonesia in west Papua but have done nothing for decades, not one UN human rights motion. You have a large population that have lived there for thousands of years being oppressed for financial gain by another nation that NEVER lived there.spot the difference.

[Mick_Marsh]

Reality check time. There was never a Palestine. Up until ww1 it was part of Ottoman empire for roughly 600 years.
So using your logic about living there for 100's of years which parts can turkey reclaim? Greece, Lebanon, Iran Iraq Egypt, Serbia, Macedonia, part of Ukraine. Now how about the Austro-Hungarian empire, they owned part of Poland, Serbia, Croatia, etc for a few hundred, until WW1.
Russia has had various levels of ownership of the Ukraine, along with Poland.
Have a look at the Ottoman empire map.
Ottoman - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ottoman)
Then go look at the Austrian map and what they owned with Hungarian empire.
The Jews from 1923 started to increase their ownership of land and properties in the Israel area and where agitating to become a nation before ww2. There where always some there but nowhere near the numbers of today.

We have far worse atrocities occurring on our doorstep with Indonesia in west Papua but have done nothing for decades, not one UN human rights motion. You have a large population that have lived there for thousands of years being oppressed for financial gain by another nation that NEVER lived there.spot the difference.
Absolutely right there Mr frantic.
What are we going to do about it? Draw a line in the sand, say enough is enough or do nothing and let it play out?
I know what I'd like to be done and I know what is likely to be done.

[derpomz]

Reality check time. There was never a Palestine. Up until ww1 it was part of Ottoman empire for roughly 600 years.
So using your logic about living there for 100's of years which parts can turkey reclaim? Greece, Lebanon, Iran Iraq Egypt, Serbia, Macedonia, part of Ukraine. Now how about the Austro-Hungarian empire, they owned part of Poland, Serbia, Croatia, etc for a few hundred, until WW1.
Russia has had various levels of ownership of the Ukraine, along with Poland.
Have a look at the Ottoman empire map.
Ottoman - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ottoman)
Then go look at the Austrian map and what they owned with Hungarian empire.
The Jews from 1923 started to increase their ownership of land and properties in the Israel area and where agitating to become a nation before ww2. There where always some there but nowhere near the numbers of today.

We have far worse atrocities occurring on our doorstep with Indonesia in west Papua but have done nothing for decades, not one UN human rights motion. You have a large population that have lived there for thousands of years being oppressed for financial gain by another nation that NEVER lived there.spot the difference.

Palestine was a land long before Christ, read your history in the subject. The Ottomans were just a very small part of history.

Palestine was where christianity and judaism were first started. The division of the country really took place in 1948 when 700000 were displaced and thrown out by the british to establish Isreal, which by the is not a state, but a name given to that region.

This still doesnt detract from the hatred both sides have for each other, remeber what i said, what if this happened to you.

[goingbush]

What if the British decided to give some other wasteland to the Jews after WW2 instead, hmmm lets say in Australia, meybe Maralinga. It might be them vs us now. If you hadent guessed im with the palestinians on this.

[85 county]

What people seem to forget is that in 1948 the British gave Palestine to the Jews after WW2. There was nowhere else to settle them and they had been in various regions for centuries. They had never had a country of thier own. So after WW2 the so called winners said, you can have Palestine.

Now imagine if that happened here what the out cry would be. The world, and in particular the west, is responsible for todays problems. If i lived in my own country and that country had been home to my people for centuries and then all of a sudden it wasnt, would i be ****ed off, your dam right i would be.

This problem in the middle east will never go away until both sides stop fighting and give into reason. The Arabs dont like the Jews and its also the other way round. What hope is there for mankind?, as far as i can see none. We are on a path to self destruction unless we sit up and say thats it, lets have beer and stop fighting each other.

The other factor in todays world is the media. Its been a long time since they reported the news and stopped creating it. The media need to pull thier heads in and stop trying to out sell each other with half truths and inuendo.


Palestine was a land long before Christ, read your history in the subject. The Ottomans were just a very small part of history.

Palestine was where christianity and judaism were first started. The division of the country really took place in 1948 when 700000 were displaced and thrown out by the british to establish Isreal, which by the is not a state, but a name given to that region.

This still doesnt detract from the hatred both sides have for each other, remeber what i said, what if this happened to you.

What a load of Bollicks

[85 county]

What if the British decided to give some other wasteland to the Jews after WW2 instead, hmmm lets say in Australia, meybe Maralinga. It might be them vs us now. If you hadent guessed im with the palestinians on this.

the british didnt give the jews anything, sheesh the british and the jews were fighting, and the british were locking them up on cypris.

[JDNSW]

the british didnt give the jews anything, sheesh the british and the jews were fighting, and the british were locking them up on cypris.

Correct - see my earlier post.

John

[frantic]

Absolutely right there Mr frantic.
What are we going to do about it? Draw a line in the sand, say enough is enough or do nothing and let it play out?
I know what I'd like to be done and I know what is likely to be done.

Yup what I'd like done is similar to east Timor, but likely?

Derpomz read the second paragraph you wrote and I quoted. You claimed Palestinians "owned" the area for centuries, when most recent history was 20 years of uk rule after 3-600 of Turk/Ottoman empire. That's most definitely not Palestine, prior to that Egypt or numerous others.
From 48-67 there was no Palestine, Gaza was Egyptian territory and the west bank Jordan's.
Palestine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestine)

Now according to wiki, the source of variable truth the kingdoms of Israel and Judea where the first independent. Ones in that area, before being overrun by every nationality, almost. Mongol, Ottoman, Macedonia, Egypt, Rome, crusaders, Syria in no particular order

How can you have any hope for peace when the major party Hamas has a central policy of no Jewish state?

[Mick_Marsh]

How can you have any hope for peace when the major party Hamas has a central policy of no Jewish state? and the Israelis have a policy of no Palestinian state?

And that is the major problem.

[goingbush]

FYI

Palestine 1918 to 1948 (http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/palestine_1918_to_1948.htm)

[Rextheute]

Narcissism .

My spelling may be rubbish but you get the idea . Its a 'me' generation .

There is a really good podcast on abc radio with Richard Fidler and a professor talking about the decline of empathy with regard to the rise of narcissism .

And no , you will never solve some of the long standing conflicts , its too deep seated .

Want to feel Lucky ?

Turn on the tele at night and watch the news - at least our politicians are just useless .

Hug your loved ones , at least here no one is bombing you .

Beleive in whatever Sky Deity you like , no one will murder you for not being the same .

Take you daughter to school , because you can .

Be different , be purple with pink spots , dress like a lion , drive a hybrid , support some strange footy team .......

no one really cares here , live and let live

[Chucaro]

Rextheute the problem it is when there is psychopathic narcissism and the people that suffer this disorder are in position of power :(

[ramblingboy42]

forgive them Arthur , for they know not what they are saying....

[Chucaro]

It is interesting how money (power), race and who is who is view as victim and other races or groups are not.
I do not say that the Jewis were not victim of torture, prosecution and death, they had suffer an imaginable punishment and the mark of that will be for ever.
But why people for got about the gypsies?

Quote for an article HERE (http://www.hetireland.org/index.php?page=ireland_gypsy)

The Nazi Holocaust of the Gypsies is known in the Romany language as the Pharrajimos - ‘the devouring’. No exact figures are available, but an estimated 500,000 Gypsies were gassed, starved or used as human guinea-pigs. At least another half million were displaced and dispossessed, their identity documents destroyed.

There was a long tradition of persecution of Hungarian Roma. In 1916, a decree mandated that all 'wandering' Gypsies were to be registered publicly and physically marked. Many were placed in state work camps, and from 1928, official national Gypsy raids took place at least twice a year. In 1934 Laszlo Endre demanded that wandering Gypsies were put into concentration camps.
In order to secure the future of the Aryan race, German Gypsy men were sterilised en masse. After the enactment of Germany's racial laws in September 1935, and the establishment of the Racial Hygiene Research Institute in November 1936, ‘racially inferior’ Roma and Sinti were continuously deported. From March 1939 the Gypsies had to wear differentiating insignia. Roma and Sinti were held in Gypsy detainment camps before being sent to concentration camps.

Madness IMO

[ramblingboy42]

great info there Arthur....I hadn't heard about the persecution of the Gypsies before

[Chucaro]

great info there Arthur....I hadn't heard about the persecution of the Gypsies before

That it is gran part of the problem mate, selective information by the press and also the teaching of history when we was at school.
Perhaps if the Gypsies were rich and have a religion and the Jewish were poor the situation was reversed :)

[AndyG]

What if the British decided to give some other wasteland to the Jews after WW2 instead, hmmm lets say in Australia, meybe Maralinga. It might be them vs us now. If you hadent guessed im with the palestinians on this.

I believe Madagastar was an option at one stage:o

[derpomz]

I believe Madagastar was an option at one stage:o

But what about the Lemurs, they wouldnt stand for it.

[85 county]

I believe Madagastar was an option at one stage:o

no it was angola

[Ausfree]

It is interesting how money (power), race and who is who is view as victim and other races or groups are not.
I do not say that the Jewis were not victim of torture, prosecution and death, they had suffer an imaginable punishment and the mark of that will be for ever.
But why people for got about the gypsies?

Quote for an article HERE (http://www.hetireland.org/index.php?page=ireland_gypsy)

The Nazi Holocaust of the Gypsies is known in the Romany language as the Pharrajimos - ‘the devouring’. No exact figures are available, but an estimated 500,000 Gypsies were gassed, starved or used as human guinea-pigs. At least another half million were displaced and dispossessed, their identity documents destroyed.

There was a long tradition of persecution of Hungarian Roma. In 1916, a decree mandated that all 'wandering' Gypsies were to be registered publicly and physically marked. Many were placed in state work camps, and from 1928, official national Gypsy raids took place at least twice a year. In 1934 Laszlo Endre demanded that wandering Gypsies were put into concentration camps.
In order to secure the future of the Aryan race, German Gypsy men were sterilised en masse. After the enactment of Germany's racial laws in September 1935, and the establishment of the Racial Hygiene Research Institute in November 1936, ‘racially inferior’ Roma and Sinti were continuously deported. From March 1939 the Gypsies had to wear differentiating insignia. Roma and Sinti were held in Gypsy detainment camps before being sent to concentration camps.

Madness IMO
I remember the Gypsy's in Australia in the 1950's. They used to wander about in convoys of cars, some towing caravans. They spent a lot of time parked on the side of the road and tried to flag you down as you drove past to beg for money.

You don't see them now, wonder what happened??? Probably assimilated into mainstream society, I guess.:confused:

[bob10]

Yes. Bob

[Chucaro]

For those that are interested about the Gypsies in Australia, here is a good link to start :)

ROMANI SINTI COMMUNITY ORGANISATION OF QUEENSLAND (http://www.sintiromanicommunity.org/)

[Greatsouthernland]

I remember the Gypsy's in Australia in the 1950's. They used to wander about in convoys of cars, some towing caravans. They spent a lot of time parked on the side of the road and tried to flag you down as you drove past to beg for money.

You don't see them now, wonder what happened??? Probably assimilated into mainstream society, I guess.:confused:

Heard they moved to Tassie...:wasntme: Actually after reading Chuc's posted article, they're everywhere as all Australians are - because they are Australian.

As for no country of origin, this is misleading as they were taken from India by an army, the majority either remaining in Anatolia or drifting through Europe. So those would have been Anatolian with an Indian heritage, if they did not seek repatriation to India.

Remarkably the African people who were taken from Africa by American Slave Traders have just as sad tales of atrocity to tell, thankfully the country they have ended up in affords them (in principle) citizenship status and equality. Australia also recognises legal immigrants as citizens. It's clear there are many people who have been displaced by war or other circumstance.

I think (and it's just my legal right to express it) that the true gripe with these groups is the way some European countries have treated them and still treat them, they are free to identify with whatever group they want to be in this country (only because they are Australians) but if they want to identify with their origin, then I see them as Indian, not sure why they want to be recognised as a separate group of Indians when they acknowledge their heritage as Indian. As a comparison, Jews displaced from 3000 years ago continued to call their home Israel and identify as Jews, not gypsy Jews with no home. Similarly those Afro-Americans don't claim to be a distinct set of people separate from African, other than to be American.

I don't follow the 'logic' it's illogical to me.

[Greatsouthernland]

I am used to his replies, I do not know if he cannot understand what I am trying to say or just plain stirring ;)
In this topic, the stir will be out of place.

I think it was 'suggestive'; by definition - you proposed to suggest/offer a 'reason'. Media do it all the time when trying to create a following interest when there is none. I.e. Where have all the whales gone? Did they simply disappear, or have they left the planet as described in the hitchhikers guide? You be the judge...and next on today tonight - cute adorable kittens a child's favourite pet in an increasing urbanised society; or medieval rulers from the past plotting to regain their place as symbolised by the Sphinx in ancient Egyptian text...? Dr Harry joins us after the break.

Interesting shock value you chose there Chuc. Not sure I'd want my kids to see it if they were reading over my shoulder...

[Chucaro]

.................................................. .
Interesting shock value you chose there Chuc. Not sure I'd want my kids to see it if they were reading over my shoulder...
Yes it is sad, it is sad reality and they will have plenty time (and at the appropriate age as well) to discover.
Then again if they do not see it here they will see in on TV or any other medium of communications. :(

[Rurover]

What if the British decided to give some other wasteland to the Jews after WW2 instead, hmmm lets say in Australia, meybe Maralinga. It might be them vs us now. If you hadent guessed im with the palestinians on this.

Funny you should mention that.
In fact there WAS a serious proposal to settle the Jews in Northern Australia in the Kimberley region.

See here''' Kimberley Plan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kimberley_Plan)

Would be interesting to see how the world might be different if that plan had come to fruition!

Alan

[DiscoMick]

Yes, the human race is mad.
I see the Search for Extraterrestial Life (SETI) includes a formula for how many thousands of years a civilization on another planet might be able to last while building up its technology before it eventually destroyed itself through weapons or environmental destruction.
This is based on estimates of how long human life on earth will last before we wipe ourselves out, which seems to be accelerating. There's a TV series called 'Life After People' which is a bit unnerving.
So, there's a cheery thought for the afternoon.

[Chucaro]

Looking at the bottom of the ABC news page there is a list of the most popular news in the last 24 hours.
There is nothing about the Gaza tragedy but among the top news are: "Maverick star James Garner dies aged 86" and "Prince George walking before first birthday"
That shows how much value people give to the lost of life there :(

[Pickles2]

Looking at the bottom of the ABC news page there is a list of the most popular news in the last 24 hours.
There is nothing about the Gaza tragedy but among the top news are: "Maverick star James Garner dies aged 86" and "Prince George walking before first birthday"
That shows how much value people give to the lost of life there :(
RUBBISH.
Of course people value the loss of life there,....That is simply one moment of one day on that page. The next moment could, and would, have something different shown there.
For you to generalize like you have is simply unrealistic,..it's just not true.
The ABSOLUTELY TERRIBLE situation (doesn't adequately describe the situation there) is all over the news,...EVERYWHERE,...and so it should be,....there would not be even one proper thinking person in Australia today who does not know what's going on there, and who would be sickened by the loss of life, & human suffering.
Anyway, Chuc,..what is the answer in Gaza, what do you think?
I really do think there should be a cease-fire, ...after that, well can they really come to a lasting "truce"?...I don't know, but I'd REALLY be interested in your thoughts.
Pickles.

[Jeff]

Looking at the bottom of the ABC news page there is a list of the most popular news in the last 24 hours.
There is nothing about the Gaza tragedy but among the top news are: "Maverick star James Garner dies aged 86" and "Prince George walking before first birthday"
That shows how much value people give to the lost of life there :(

But there is loss of life there every day. It isn't new news. James Garner was in The Great Escape, one of the greatest movies ever, so it is news.

Jeff

:rocket:

[bob10]

RUBBISH.
Of course people value the loss of life there,....That is simply one moment of one day on that page. The next moment could, and would, have something different shown there.
For you to generalize like you have is simply unrealistic,..it's just not true.
The ABSOLUTELY TERRIBLE situation (doesn't adequately describe the situation there) is all over the news,...EVERYWHERE,...and so it should be,....there would not be even one proper thinking person in Australia today who does not know what's going on there, and who would be sickened by the loss of life, & human suffering.
Anyway, Chuc,..what is the answer in Gaza, what do you think?
I really do think there should be a cease-fire, ...after that, well can they really come to a lasting "truce"?...I don't know, but I'd REALLY be interested in your thoughts.
Pickles.


I would like to know how you suggest the World deals with HAMAS. You seem to be an expert on the subject. Do you think if the rockets stopped, the killing would stop, and negotiations commence. Would Israel allow Gaza to exist, without the threat of violence, from HAMAS. While our eye has been taken off the main game, this has happened. From the Courier Mail,


" Extremist fighters of the Islamic State, already in control of a third of Iraqi territory, are on the attack in Syria, where they've seized oilfields, facilitated the Assad regime's advance in Aleppo, & started a new offensive against the Kurds. The Islamic state controls more than 35% of Syrian territory, its holdings include nearly all of Syria's oil & gas fields. The latest gain of the self proclaimed " caliphate" was the seizure last week of the oil field in the desert at Palmyra, after the takeover of the country's biggest oil fields, in Deir el-Zour in eastern Syria, earlier in the week.


It is in Aleppo that the regime owes a major debt to the Islamic State , according to senior aides in the US backed Syrian opposition. President Assads forces captured the industrial zone in the northeast of the city , by air to ground missiles, bombs, & artillery, but the advance was facilitated by Islamic State forces, & Assad allowed them to advance unopposed. " I would REALLY be interested in your thoughts on this can of worms, Bob

[p38arover]

James Garner was in The Great Escape, one of the greatest movies ever, so it is news.


I remember him mostly as Bret Maverick - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maverick_(TV_series) and Roger Moore as his cousin, Beau.

[Pickles2]

I would like to know how you suggest the World deals with HAMAS. You seem to be an expert on the subject. Do you think if the rockets stopped, the killing would stop, and negotiations commence. Would Israel allow Gaza to exist, without the threat of violence, from HAMAS. While our eye has been taken off the main game, this has happened. From the Courier Mail,


" Extremist fighters of the Islamic State, already in control of a third of Iraqi territory, are on the attack in Syria, where they've seized oilfields, facilitated the Assad regime's advance in Aleppo, & started a new offensive against the Kurds. The Islamic state controls more than 35% of Syrian territory, its holdings include nearly all of Syria's oil & gas fields. The latest gain of the self proclaimed " caliphate" was the seizure last week of the oil field in the desert at Palmyra, after the takeover of the country's biggest oil fields, in Deir el-Zour in eastern Syria, earlier in the week.


It is in Aleppo that the regime owes a major debt to the Islamic State , according to senior aides in the US backed Syrian opposition. President Assads forces captured the industrial zone in the northeast of the city , by air to ground missiles, bombs, & artillery, but the advance was facilitated by Islamic State forces, & Assad allowed them to advance unopposed. " I would REALLY be interested in your thoughts on this can of worms, Bob
Where did I say I'm an expert on the subject, & in addition, quote me something that I said, justifying that comment.
If you read my comment PROPERLY, I said "Can there really be a lasting truce, I don't know". That is what I said,..I never claimed to be an expert, anywhere, or to have the solution.
Anyway, any sane, thinking person, would say, THERE SHOULD BE A CEASEFIRE. So yes, I think there should be a ceasefire.
OK, so going on from that, Israel have agreed to a ceasefire TWICE, & Hamas have simply continued to fire rockets?
On two separate TV broadcasts today, there was one coverage of Hamas rockets stored, & launched, from a school. There was another, on Ch 2 tonight, where Hamas operatives were caught with rockets in a civilian area?...Tunnels in a civilian area,...and they keep launching those rockets, with what result?...450+ Palestinians dead & THOUSANDS wounded. So, what is Hamas achieving, except a massive number of Palestinian casualties. I could go on.
Anyway Bob, like I said in my original post, there should be a ceasefire,...after that, well,.....over to you, what do you say,.....'cause I DON'T KNOW.
Pickles.

[Chucaro]

RUBBISH.
Of course people value the loss of life there,....That is simply one moment of one day on that page. The next moment could, and would, have something different shown there.
For you to generalize like you have is simply unrealistic,..it's just not true.
The ABSOLUTELY TERRIBLE situation (doesn't adequately describe the situation there) is all over the news,...EVERYWHERE,...and so it should be,....there would not be even one proper thinking person in Australia today who does not know what's going on there, and who would be sickened by the loss of life, & human suffering.
Anyway, Chuc,..what is the answer in Gaza, what do you think?
I really do think there should be a cease-fire, ...after that, well can they really come to a lasting "truce"?...I don't know, but I'd REALLY be interested in your thoughts.
Pickles.

Pickles, we have to come to wonder if we have learned something in the last 150 years or so.
I say that time frame because it is when the news become global, were the news spread and humanity begins to learn that atrocities that we, humans do in the name of greed for power, control ( many times using religion to justifying it) money and materialistic things.
Have we learned something? perhaps yes but not enough IMO.
Regarding Gaza? how you expect to have and idea of what can be done when many there (in both sides) killing each other and perhaps the people with power behind it count the loses of life as "collateral damage"
No, I do not have the answer. I do not think that if even Israel and Palestine are created as only one spiritual territory where all the religions can share the land peace will be achieved. Greed is a cancer that we humans have and I am not going to be here when we eradicate it.
Regarding my post, it was in context of which news were the most view in ABC.
That should tell you something.....................

[Pickles2]

Chuc, "have we learned anything"?...geez, with the subject we're talking about, one has to wonder.
"The Answer"?...well there has to be a ceasefire doesn't there? I mean if we're talking "have we learned anything", then surely those involved would know there's gotta be a ceasefire, and I suppose eventually, there will be.
But, after that?....Like I said, I don't know,...I don't think anyone does.
Pickles.

[ramblingboy42]

There will only be ceasefire when there are no weapons to fire.

Who is supplying arms to the Islamic state?

If we can stop that they will only be able to throw rocks and engage in hand combat.

I don't think these people really have the conviction to do that now.

[JDNSW]

Have we learned anything? Any reading of history will show that, in general, things are a lot better than they have been throughout most of recorded history.

As an example - until at least the eighteenth century, the accepted method of dealing with prisoners of war was either to cut their throats or sell them as slaves. Cities captured in a war were usually subjected to thorough looting (soldiers were usually not paid), and the inhabitants either enslaved or murdered, rape optional beforehand, and anything left was burnt.

Until the late nineteenth century there were no rules of war; there now are, even if they are not always observed.

If you don't think anything has improved look at the wars of religion in Europe from the fifteenth century on - they make the Northern Ireland 'troubles' look like a picnic.

Even in the twentieth century countries such as the Soviet Union engaged in wholesale murder of their citizens, without even the excuse of a war, in a way that would attract international sanctions today.

What has happened is that communications improvements, especially in the last fifty years, has exposed most activities to widespread view, and there are few organisations, and even fewer governments prepared to openly espouse murder of anyone who disagrees with them (with the notable exception of some Islamic organisations and similar extremists elsewhere).

No, humanity is not perfect, and never will be - but we are getting better.

John

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Absolutely right there Mr frantic.
What are we going to do about it? Draw a line in the sand, say enough is enough or do nothing and let it play out?
I know what I'd like to be done and I know what is likely to be done.The problem is that the West has been drawing lines in the sand of the Middle East for hundreds if not, over a thousand years. Remember the various Crusades.

There has been tribalism in the middle east for thousands of years, modern Israel started as a terrorist state against the British followed by a civil war that ended up in partitioning with borders defined by the UN (more lines in the sand), these have never been complied with by Israel. When the people of an area are oppressed by their neighbours and all forms of negotiation are disregarded by one side (backed by a powerful friend) the result is a people in despair with no options left other than rebellion, insurgency or terrorism. In the Gaza strip its resulted in Hamas, until Israel stops giving the people of Gaza a reason to join Hamas the conflict will continue.

Remember it takes both sides to cause conflict, Hamas has their stated aim as the destruction of Israel and the fundamentalist Israelis have an equally held belief that (the) God (of the Jews) gave Palestine (all of Palestine) to the Jews to build Israel.

IMHO We should ban the supply and sale of arms to both sides and let them fight it out with their own devices.

I await the flaming.

[Chucaro]

Have we learned anything? Any reading of history will show that, in general, things are a lot better than they have been throughout most of recorded history.

As an example - until at least the eighteenth century, the accepted method of dealing with prisoners of war was either to cut their throats or sell them as slaves. Cities captured in a war were usually subjected to thorough looting (soldiers were usually not paid), and the inhabitants either enslaved or murdered, rape optional beforehand, and anything left was burnt.

Until the late nineteenth century there were no rules of war; there now are, even if they are not always observed.

If you don't think anything has improved look at the wars of religion in Europe from the fifteenth century on - they make the Northern Ireland 'troubles' look like a picnic.

Even in the twentieth century countries such as the Soviet Union engaged in wholesale murder of their citizens, without even the excuse of a war, in a way that would attract international sanctions today.

What has happened is that communications improvements, especially in the last fifty years, has exposed most activities to widespread view, and there are few organisations, and even fewer governments prepared to openly espouse murder of anyone who disagrees with them (with the notable exception of some Islamic organisations and similar extremists elsewhere).

No, humanity is not perfect, and never will be - but we are getting better.

John

It seems to me that the genocide in Rwanda is all but forgotten going by your examples.
In 1994, when genocide took place we have more technology and ways to stop it. More than 800,000 men, women, and children perished in the Rwandan genocide and also thousands of Hutu were murdered because they opposed the killing campaign and the forces directing it.
Policymakers in France, Belgium, and the United States and at the United Nations were aware of the preparations for massive slaughter and failed to take the steps needed to prevent it.
No, we have not learned much from the experiences of the past.
Rules of war? Are you kidding, just last night a hospital was bombarded for a second time killing children, woman and doctors.
I guess that we are in a different page............

[JDNSW]

It seems to me that the genocide in Rwanda is all but forgotten going by your examples.

Not at all - my point is simply that you only have to go back a hundred years or so, and this would not have raised an eyebrow almost anywhere in the world - this sort of behaviour is now considered unacceptable by most people and governments. It still happens, but nowhere near as often.

In 1994, when genocide took place we have more technology and ways to stop it. More than 800,000 men, women, and children perished in the Rwandan genocide and also thousands of Hutu were murdered because they opposed the killing campaign and the forces directing it.
Policymakers in France, Belgium, and the United States and at the United Nations were aware of the preparations for massive slaughter and failed to take the steps needed to prevent it.

One of the fundamental rules of international relations is that governments should not interfere inside other countries. Again, this rule is not always followed, but is followed more often than not. None of the countries you mention have a mandate to act as world policemen.

No, we have not learned much from the experiences of the past.
Rules of war? Are you kidding, just last night a hospital was bombarded for a second time killing children, woman and doctors.
I guess that we are in a different page............

No, simply that you seem to expect that just because a rule exists it will be obeyed by everyone all the time. If that applied to society, for example, there would be no need for police. (and there clearly is such a need) In international relations, there is also such a need, but there is no such police force, and no international agreement for it, in part because there is no international agreement on what rules should apply. But some rules are in fact agreed to by almost all parties - and these include a rule on (intentionally) bombing hospitals. But just because such a rule is broken, does not mean it does not exist.

And my point is that the existence of such rules is an advance, and the fact that a rulke is broken does not mean it does not exist. Does the fact that a child is murdered by his father as happened recently in Victoria mean that ther is not law against this?

John

[incisor]

The future of warfare: Why we should all be very afraid - Salon.com (http://www.salon.com/2014/07/20/the_future_of_warfare_why_we_should_all_be_very_af raid/)


It is said that in sixteenth-century Prague the rabbi Judah Loew felled his golem once and for all by scribbling met, the Hebrew word for dead,on its head. Let us retire our golems before they inscribe the same word on ours.mandatory land rover content

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hj98jcEeOJM

[bob10]

I've taken the time to sit down, & think thru this MH 71 crash, & how it has made me feel. I didn't lose any one, so you would think it wouldn't be too bad. But every time one of those smiling , arrogant Russian " rebels" comes on TV, I have the strongest desire to kill one of the bastards. Now I say this, because we have been debating the middle east, MH71, and others, asking each other what is the solution. None of us know the solution, but being able to vent on this forum, lowers the pressure somewhat.


I'm not a violent man, normally, and my reaction has surprised me. I even took myself & SWMBO, away to the bush, for a few days, to distance ourselves, from it all. I guess the point I try to make is, if that is how I feel, with no direct exposure, how do you think the Palestinians, & Israelis, feel, with all the killing there over the years. To that end, I say, there will be no answer to their " problem ". I've come to the conclusion, Humans are programmed to self destruct. But not in Australia, hopefully.

Now is the time to put petty issues aside. Bob

[Lotz-A-Landies]

<snip>

Now is the time to put petty issues aside. BobOn this forum, I have but one word for that sentiment. Toyota! :twisted:

Well maybe four, Nissan Jeep and G-Wagen! :wasntme:

[bob10]

Which, of course, leads to this....Bob :p


landrover driving technique.wmv - YouTube

[worane]

Thank you all for the very interesting history lesson.
This posting should be available to history teachers the world over, as mine never got on to these subjects for sure.