Urgent HELP - Knock and shudder from steering/drivetrain - MY10 D4 3.0

[Ghost-Who-Walks]

So, on the trip of a lifetime to the tip of Cape York ( more on that later).
Yesterday we finished both sections of the OTT, with a fair bit of rough work (for me, anyway). On the way back to the bypass road, we took a hard left turn at slow speed and felt a shudder thru the steering wheel that was noticeable to my wife. It has gotten worse over the course of the last day so that whenever I turn the steering wheel more than 1/2 turn in either direction, it feels like the whole drivetrain is 'jumping'. It feels and sounds terrible.
At first I thought it may have been front cv joints after hard 4wd work in extended mode etc. The mechanic at bamaga had a quick look today (just walking alongside the vehicle), and said they could see the rear and front wheels 'jumping'. They thought maybe the rear diff had stayed locked, but that didn't explain the front wheels. Maybe the centre diff has stayed locked ???
I have GOE rods that were set for use during the last few days of crossings. Used extended mode with mud/ruts or rock crawl for most of the crossings, then back to 'Off' between rivers. Didn't notice any issues with things not working, the whole time. No warnings/messages whatsoever. Last crossing (Nolan's brook) was quite deep, but didn't get stuck - so everything's been quite wet, but not for any length of time. No water where it shouldn't have been.
So car is now on the back of a truck on its way back to Bamaga for the mechanics to get it on a hoist and have a better look.

Any ideas would be GREATLY appreciated!

[unseenone]

Does it seem like the brakes are activating. It seems as though, if the wheel position sensor is out of whack (don't ask) or malfunctioning it might create the symptoms you describe. If you have NAV, you can easily confirm what the vehicle thinks the wheel position is to reality. Also along the same line, the lower steering joint (a bugger to remove) is worth looking at. This happened to me when I had the lower steering joint replaced, the guys inadvertently put it together 180 deg. off, and it when haywire.

Along the same lines, a wheel speed sensor going out might also make the vehicle think a wheel is spinning, or not moving, and as a result try and compensate.

If you move the wheel left to right or visa versa when the vehicle is not moving or running, do you have any unusual play or noise, clunks, etc.?

It seems as though if it were gear related it would be consistent regardless of turns or not, with the except of the diff.

Getting it off the ground will help so you can check all the other obvious things such as, inner / outer ball joints, CV's can't be checked reasonablly on the ground, etc. ARB Bushes, as well as upper lower bushes (suspension arms) and of course, the possibility of a warped disc if it's related to braking.

The steering rack might also be a strong possibility here.

I found an interesting, and not particularly informative thread on the disco uk (http://disco3.co.uk/forum/topic36327.html?highlight=shudder+steering) site, it turned out he had two different gear ratio diffs in the end.

Good Luck

[Graeme]

if the wheel position sensor is out of whack I'd expect an ABS fault and the suspension lowering if this has happened. My guess is either a damaged front CV or a diff.

[Ghost-Who-Walks]

Doesn't appear to be brake related.
Unsure about wheel speed/position sensors... As I said, it wasn't exhibiting any unusual symptoms during normal driving, only while steering past 1/2 turn or so.
Didn't notice it clunk/knock whilst stationary and turning the wheel.

Would a front cv cause that extent of knocking/movement at the rear axle?

And still absolutely no warnings/messages.

Btw - what's NAV?

Thx for the replies. Much appreciated!

[Bundalene]

I'm pretty sure the mechanic at Bamaga is one of our AULRO Members, Marko66, who used to be in Adelaide River.

He knows a lot about Landrovers, so hopefully you will be in good hands.

All the best.

Erich

[sheerluck]

.....Btw - what's NAV?.....

The screen in the dash. ;)

Not sure if the D4 has the 4x4 info screen like the D3, but that would show you the relative positions (as the vehicle believes them to be) of the wheels.

[unseenone]

I'd expect an ABS fault and the suspension lowering if this has happened. My guess is either a damaged front CV or a diff.

Oddly no, but I don't push it, you won't get more than a 100 feet in this case, and it is obvious something is not right.

[Ghost-Who-Walks]

So, car has been 'diagnosed' by L/R in Brisbane. Fault is definitely in the transfer case - have been told that the error code is that the "transfer case has overheated", and that the oil was in poor condition (black). This has caused the clutch packs to wear (?), and then the diff to lock. Fortunately for me, I purchased an extended new car warranty from Allianz, and they are replacing my transfer case ($6,000++) free of charge! Good result from a potentially terrible situation...

Interesting points to note:
1. When the car was checked in Bamaga, the tx case oil was checked with no sign of deterioration or water. So either the oil deteriorated during transport to Brisbane, or they looked at different oils :wasntme:...
2. Another member experienced EXACTLY the same symptoms and issues after doing exactly the same trip, approx 4 weeks later (thanks AndrewM!). He has just had his car inspected in Cairns by a non-dealer L/R mechanic - some water in the tx case oil; error code was "tx case diff mis-aligned"; oil changed, electronic 're-alignment' of diff, and everything's good to go. I wonder if my diagnosis in Bris was accurate, or if we actually had different issues (??!!)... (I'm sure his explanation would be much more complete, but I think that's the gist...)

3. Tx Case Oil changes - I'll post a separate post on this topic, but the dealer was asked by Allianz about service intervals for the tx case. Apparently, the tx case oil is supposed to be changed at 130,000kms or 5yrs (I am 120,000kms and 4 1/2yrs). Now I've never heard of the tx case service intervals being mentioned. I wonder if this is a contributing factor?

Anyway... I hope this is useful to someone, sometime. Just wanted to finish the story off!
All's well that ends well!! :)

Rob

[justinc]

every d3/4 owner would be advised to change transfer case oil at 60k intervals, even more often with heavy use/ towing. as good as the oem oil is, 1.2 litre capacity for a near on 3ton 4x4 transfer case is just ludicrous.

jc

[Graeme]

1.2 litre capacityI have recorded that 3L is required. (Edit perhaps s/b 3 pints)

I had mine changed at 90K and is scheduled again for 150K.

[Tinman]

What oil is everyone using as I am having trouble sourcing this oil

[sheerluck]

What oil is everyone using as I am having trouble sourcing this oil

You'll find almost everyone using the OEM fluid. Easy enough to find, it's a tad expensive though.
Transfer Case Oil Land Rover Discovery 3 & 4 Range Rover Sport - 1 Litre - All Four X 4 Spares (http://shop.allfourx4.com.au/Transfer-Case-Oil-Land-Rover-Discovery-3-4-Range-Rover-Sport-1-Litre)

[Tinman]

I found on the shell Web site saying that the recommended oil is Castrol SAF carbon mod Plus, found it funny that shell would quote this on there site they had no recommended oil but on the castrol site it says refer to dealer so why aren't they quoting what shell has on their site

[sheerluck]

I found on the shell Web site saying that the recommended oil is Castrol SAF carbon mod Plus, found it funny that shell would quote this on there site they had no recommended oil but on the castrol site it says refer to dealer so why aren't they quoting what shell has on their site

Ask me one on sport.

[Tinman]

By the way, thanks for the link Dave, Pricey stuff better not spill a drop. Might chase the castrol oil tomorrow see if it's available and a price.
Cheers

[Graeme]

I found on the shell Web site saying that the recommended oil is Castrol SAF carbon mod PlusThat's for the locking rear diff. The TC oil should be Shell TF0753.

[Tinman]

Your right Graeme, I think I was having a senior moment, everything needs a different oil, it's got my head spinning with all the different numbers and codes.
Cheers