D3 vibration/shudder/noise

[morpheus]

Hello all,

My car has developed a vibration/shudder/noise that at first seemed speed related but I am now starting to think it might be gearbox-related based on what has been posted here and on Disco3.co.uk.

The noise becomes noticeable from about 90 kph onwards, with the vibration becoming a shudder being more pronounced at 100 - 110kph. At 110kph it kinda sounds like a low hum of a V8, and the vibration can be felt through the drivers' footwell on the left hand side. I have picked up a bit of vibration under the drivers seat too. Other thank the vibration, the drive is smooth and there is no variance in revs.

The problem is it is a bit inconsistent and not always as noticeable. But CAN always hear it at 100-110 kph My wife cannot hear it and my mechanic couldn't pick it up - typical isn't it? I feel like I am going a bit nuts..

I mucked around today with command shift and at the box made some low humming noises at 80 kph in 5th and 6th (obviously at low revs) but was fine in 4th.

Car specs are as follows:

2006 TDV6 HSE D3
220k
265/60/R18 Cooper AT3s
Rear wheel carrier
LRA tank

Only other things I can add is that the ATF was replaced at 160k (according to the books), I had a major service and wheel alignment done on it two weeks ago and a week prior to that it had two second hand diffs installed.

Any suggestions would be most welcome!

[unseenone]

I think we are anxiously awaiting the outcome of this thread http://www.aulro.com/afvb/d3-d4-rrs/201288-driveline-grumble-groan-5th-3-0-d4.html

It seems similar to your description, but read it over and see what you think.

[stewmair]

TDV6 07 186k. Similar problem. Occurs on occasion lasting for miles and sometimes not at all. Not related to acceleration or steering direction. Happened with old Coopers but still happens wit new Goodyears twice balanced. No effect through steering wheel.
At first occurred at ~90kph, now at 75-80kph.
I suspect drive line, perhaps transmission shaft. Will have to get around to having it fixed but midway between services and live in that Landrover service desert of Bendigo and have to go to Melbourne.
My wife picked it up before I did but now we agree! Good excuse to make her new C200 Merc our primary vehicle.
There was a thread about prop shaft problems but I can't find it.

[morpheus]

Thanks, unseenone. I hadn't read through that entire thread. It does seem similar although I get the noise in Drive too, not just command shift. I am going to try and check the propshaft for play. I think I can rule out tyres and wheel bearings.

[morpheus]

How long have you had your symptoms, stewmair?

[stewmair]

God of dreams. It started gently and less frequently about 5 months ago.
Entirely speed related so would seem to be from the output of the transfer case on.
Continued even after changing wheels and tyres.
Can occur in 5th or 6th gear.

[morpheus]

Sounds exactly like what I am experiencing. The garage did tell me that they had advised the previous owner a year ago that the transfer case was 'noisy'. They didn't say anything to me recently though.

[DoctorJ]

Could it be possible the tyres are scalloped. Why did you get the wheel alignment done?

Cheers
Julian

[morpheus]

Hi DoctorJ,

I had the wheels done because I was getting a bit of shoulder wear on the inside of the rears, plus the diffs had just been replaced so I figured it was a good thing to do. I had thought it might be the tyres, and it might still be tyre related, but it seems to be more prevalent in fifth and sixth gears at the same speed.

[stewmair]

I should have included the transfer case as a possible culprit.
Any ideas about the cost of new or rebuilt transfer case or repair?
Done all the right services including ATF change every 80 k.
Starting to spend too much on this car but can't see a suitable replacement considering all it does for me.
Big question is will it survive the trip to Broome via Gary Junction then Kimberleys and Cordillo Downs next year towing my 2.5 tonne Trakmaster.

[unseenone]

Once you get the issues sorted I don't see why it would not be good for the trip.

The biggest thing is staying on top of the little stuff, bushings, etc. and hopefully you'll be sorted. I get around 2800 usd for a reman unit here, no idea there.

I've got an '05, and wouldn't hesitate on the trip you mentioned.

[stewmair]

Can't be too careful.
Simpson in1989 in RR classic with 44gal petrol on the roof and a family of five did one front spring (carried a spare) and clutch master cylinder (convoy carried one). Otherwise trouble free in 160k.
Dico 1 all over the country no problem in 120k.
Disco 3 fro Melbourne to Cape York did in two front steering bushes, one turbo return hose and had to replace its second suspension pump. Luckily on that trip service was not too far away or problem did not stop us.
Otherwise I've only had the problems everyone else has had. But I love the car!

[morpheus]

Urgh. Looked under the car today, mainly to check the propshaft, and I didn't quite expect to see the transfer case like this. You can't see from the the pic but it also looks like the propshaft has been spinning oil near where it meets the case. I wonder whether this is my culprit.

[stewmair]

Off to MLR today, should know by wednesday what my problem is. Hopefully simpler than transfer case bearing seal.

[Epic pooh]

That looks like an annoying issue Morpheus. Be interested to hear if it is the source of your vibration. Looks like a bearing seal ... And they look to be a pita to rectify.

Do you know if this leak was present when the diffs were done ?

[stewmair]

MLR helpful as usual. Checked the drive line and all and did test drive.
Was the roof rack as I first suspected but SHMBO disagreed.
Cheapest but rumble continues.

[morpheus]

Mick - there was a slight bit of weeping, but nothing to write home about. The service I had done recently (a major) did not even raise it as an issue.

Mechanic and I took the car for a drive (for about half an hour!) and we have traced the noise to the transfer case. However, we also picked up a wheel bearing noise (when cornering), so this may have been where the problems started. The car is going in for a proper inspection on Thursday so they can put it on hoists and run tests.

Will know more on Thursday and what I am up for. The Minister for Finance, War and Torture is not impressed. :)

[Epic pooh]

My rear diff was weeping slightly in the lead up to the commencement of rude noises and subsequent replacement.

Front wheel bearing ? I'd say do both, the other one won't be far behind.

On the bright side, once you get that sorted it should be all good - there are only so many issues you can have and these are normal age/weight/mileage related problems.

Good luck with the Minister for Buttkicking - I'm lucky that mine is fairly understanding of such things (and it helps that we always have at least 2 working cars) ... although she has still not quite forgiven the one and only time it ended up on a tow truck (wheel bearing) ... let us know how you go :)

[morpheus]

Better pics of the rear propshaft. You can see the oil spray marks on the underbody of the car.

[Rich84]

Mick - there was a slight bit of weeping, but nothing to write home about. The service I had done recently (a major) did not even raise it as an issue.

Mechanic and I took the car for a drive (for about half an hour!) and we have traced the noise to the transfer case. However, we also picked up a wheel bearing noise (when cornering), so this may have been where the problems started. The car is going in for a proper inspection on Thursday so they can put it on hoists and run tests.

Will know more on Thursday and what I am up for. The Minister for Finance, War and Torture is not impressed. :)

How did you trace the noise to the transfer out of interest? The bearings for the output shafts of the transfer case are a known issue on the DD295 transfer case. The symptoms are driveline noise, I'd be very interested to know how it can be traced to that.

[morpheus]

Hi Rich84,

I drove, and got up to speed on a highway - where the noise was most noticeable - and drove at 110, then 100, with a mix of throttle and coast. The mechanic, sitting in the passenger seat worked out that the noise was coming from the centre of the car, and when he put his ear to the centre console could distinctly hear the noise. It was louder on coast, at speed, which is concerning, than with throttle. That and a slight vibration could be felt in the drivers foot well, on the left side.

The wheel bearing noise might be unrelated or linked.

[Epic pooh]

Looks like you'll be up for a propshaft as I don't think it is readily serviceable. Wheel bearings will be unrelated but id be making certain that the wheel bearing noise isn't actually from another source (propshaft bearing?). Let us know how you go !

Out of interest is the vibration your chasing new (post diff works) or preexisting ?

[morpheus]

I reckon it is preexisting. The diff noise I had probably blanketed it for all I know. The mechanic said he would not have found it had I not taken him for a drive. Wind noise and tyre noise also cover it up a bit.

[Epic pooh]

How did you go Morpheus ?

[stewmair]

Solved my rumble. See Front Runner Cheetah thread.

[morpheus]

After a day of looking at the vehicle, I was advised the following:

- cause of the vibration is probably the front left wheel (needs balancing). All bearings are fine.

- transfer case is noisy, but not the source of the noise I hear.

The prognosis is that the noise is from the diffs. Both front and rear diffs are 'worn'. I am considering my options at the moment. The diffs are secondhand replacements, and the car has done a lot of kms. Having said that, I would expect that the replacements I had put in my car should last longer than a couple of months.

Or I just have to stop being so paranoid and just enjoy the car for what it is which is awesome.

[Epic pooh]

As any vehicle ages, there is a balance to be struck between paranoia and degradation of components due to age ... sometimes you'll get it wrong, sometimes you'll be right ... best to just enjoy, get used to 'normal' and take it from there. The xfer cases are somewhat noisy by design, it would be pretty difficult to quantify noisy vs normal age related noise.

It's a bit odd - to say the least - that the new (used) diffs are noisy, but slightly noisy diffs are not the end of the world.

What was their take on the expulsion of grease from the propshaft ... that's not normal.

Anyway, happy to hear it's not an issue that has you sleeping with the chooks ... as yet ... hahaha !

[morpheus]

I asked about the propshaft. They said there was the tiniest amount of play, but not enough for him to suspect anything. Didn't say anything about the grease, which I thought was weird.