Considering a Defender, A Few Questions

[Mjt084]

Hi All,

I'm new to the forum and considering purchasing a new or near new 110 Puma Defender for work and play purposes.

After a few weeks of reading through posts in this forum I have a few questions that I would really appreciate some help with.

1. Apart from running a little quieter is there any advantage in seeking out a 2.2L model over a 2.4L model? My finance company will allow the purchase of a vehicle up to 3 years old and it seems 2011 was the changeover year so I'm seeing a few vehicles available with the older 2.4L engine.

2. How bad is the rust and corrosion issue? I have read in a few British forums of owners experiencing rust within the first 5 years of ownership. I imagine the salting of roads in the cold British winters wouldn't help this but given I live close to the coast and the majority of my off-roading will likely be on the beach I want to make sure I'm not going to end up with a pile of rust after a few years.

3. How bad is the water leakage issue and what is Land Rover's stance on addressing it under the warranty? I expect some ingress fording creeks or rivers but not after a light shower.

4. If I choose to go with the used option are there any major issues to keep an eye out for and can anyone recommend a good LR mechanic in the Newcastle area I can have look over a prospective purchase? I see a lot of LR's driving around with All Four x 4 Service Centre stickers so maybe they are a good bet?

5. Any other advice for a prospective purchaser?

Thanks in advance!

[JDNSW]

Hi All,

I'm new to the forum and considering purchasing a new or near new 110 Puma Defender for work and play purposes.

After a few weeks of reading through posts in this forum I have a few questions that I would really appreciate some help with.

1. Apart from running a little quieter is there any advantage in seeking out a 2.2L model over a 2.4L model? My finance company will allow the purchase of a vehicle up to 3 years old and it seems 2011 was the changeover year so I'm seeing a few vehicles available with the older 2.4L engine.

I can't comment really, but my understanding is that there is little practical difference.

2. How bad is the rust and corrosion issue? I have read in a few British forums of owners experiencing rust within the first 5 years of ownership. I imagine the salting of roads in the cold British winters wouldn't help this but given I live close to the coast and the majority of my off-roading will likely be on the beach I want to make sure I'm not going to end up with a pile of rust after a few years.

Given you are planning on beach work, rust is a significant concern, although even then probably not as bad as UK salted roads. Hosing down after beach work and generally a bit of tlc should be considered (this applies to whatever you get!)

3. How bad is the water leakage issue and what is Land Rover's stance on addressing it under the warranty? I expect some ingress fording creeks or rivers but not after a light shower.

I have no first hand experience - supposed top be better, but I think it depends on your luck!

4. If I choose to go with the used option are there any major issues to keep an eye out for and can anyone recommend a good LR mechanic in the Newcastle area I can have look over a prospective purchase? I see a lot of LR's driving around with All Four x 4 Service Centre stickers so maybe they are a good bet?

5. Any other advice for a prospective purchaser?

Thanks in advance!

See if you can get a drive with some existing owners, and listen to their experiences first hand - should be some in your area who would volunteer.

John

[Mjt084]

Thanks John,

We're quite lucky here in Newcastle and have a car wash at the end of the access road to our most popular 4WD beach so a good thorough under car wash is easy.

I've taken a few 110's for a test drive and I was surprised by the on road performance, a little loud but nothing like I expected. I was also pleasantly surprised by the on road handling in comparison with my 2012 Holden Colorado company car.

Marc

[Pickles2]

IMHO, you would need to be bit careful with a Defender in a car wash, with repect to how much pressure & water are directed at both the body & underside of the vehicle, or you might end up with more water inside the vehicle than out!
Seriously though, there is NOTHING like a Defender , and you will love it, as long as you are aware of what you're buying, with all its little "foibles"etc.
Pickles.

[Mjt084]

IMHO, you would need to be bit careful with a Defender in a car wash

Thanks Pickles, is that in relation to my previous post or the original question?

[Psimpson7]

Hi Marc,

We have 6000k's on our 2014 Defender now.

It hasn't leaked any water inside at all yet, and we have had some heavy rain including about 100mm on the day we picked it up!

Driving my other one (a td5) in heavy rain is like someone put a garden sprinkler inside...

Rust is a concern with beach work, but as John says, cleaning it should help. The Salted roads in the UK are really not kind at all.

I find road performance and handling to be fine.

I would look for the latest one you can get. I would take the 2.2 over the 2.4 as its the current engine.

The later they are the better they seem to be to drive as well. Its almost like in the last few years just as they intend to stop making them, they nearly have the hang of it....!

2011 onwards have 4 pin diffs front and rear in the 110's and 130's/ 2 pin in the front before that.

some other useful info abaout half way down this thread:

DEFENDER2.NET - View topic - buying information (http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic30374.html)

cheers
Pete

[Pickles2]

fquote=Mjt084;2191228]Thanks Pickles, is that in relation to my previous post or the original question?[/quote]
Sorry mate, that was only part of the post, which I have now edited!
Pickles.

[Mjt084]

IMHO, you would need to be bit careful with a Defender in a car wash, with repect to how much pressure & water are directed at both the body & underside of the vehicle, or you might end up with more water inside the vehicle than out!
Seriously though, there is NOTHING like a Defender , and you will love it, as long as you are aware of what you're buying, with all its little "foibles"etc.
Pickles.

Thanks Pickles, that makes more sense!

I've previously had cars with large leaks and don't want to go down that path again..... With that in mind i think I should be well prepared to handle a small occasional leak just don't want to end up with a pool in the footwells whenever it rains! ;)

On the "foibles", that's something I accept when considering a Defender, a few rattles, a bit of road noise, an engine that you can actually hear and the occasional puzzling electrical issue are all things I expected. Reading about rust and water leaks in relatively modern cars though come as a bit of a shock.

[BilboBoggles]

I've owned a MY09 2.4 and replaced it with a MY13 2.2. The 2.2 is miles ahead in noise and vibration - for me it was a significant upgrade.

There are quite a few threads on rustproofing them. I would look at getting Valvoline Tectyl 506 sprayed professionally through the chassis. I'd also get the inside of the bulkhead treated - but for that I would use INOX MX-3. Also under the floor mats I'd use Inox MX-3 every 6 months or so. Having said that it's rare to see a rust damaged < 10 year old defender. The older ones had different doors, which can and do rust heavily. The newer >2006 ones have better doors that tend to rust less. Also don't forget that UK vehicles really struggle to last more than 5 years due to the salt on the roads there - and that applies to pretty much any of them.

My MY13 did not leak any water at all - well it does now a bit because the door seals need replacing. I think the newer post MY12 models seem to have a slightly different assembly technique that might be better than the prior models at keeping water out. Best investment is a carport. You are less likely to get water inside from a river than from a light shower!

A used recent 2.2 I'd risk with no worries. I'd hope for a little warranty left - or that it's done a reasonable number of kms. The most risky would be buying a <30,000k but greater than 3 year old Defender. Most things that break on a Defender do so in the first 30k. You want to be covered by a warranty during this period as you are likely to need to replace a diff or perhaps a clutch in this breaking in period. But I would not worry too much - if you do have a diff failure there are after market upgrades that will fix it relatively cheaply.

When I've been looking around for Defenders - I ended up buying brand new because :

1) Corporate package means free servicing for 3 years , and discounted delivery charges
2) The price of used ones was not much less than new.
3) I bought on a novated lease which means a corporate discount, no GST etc etc. The total price was really quite competitive with a recent used one especially when you consider warranty coverage - basically you will have only fuel as a running cost for 3 years.




FWIW - I run the new Defender through the automatic drive through touchless pressure wash every week - no water leaks yet. (and no scratches from hand washing either)

[Dorian]

Marc
I've had a few leakage issues, MY12, but the dealer who I bought it thru (Shinecoast) has been great with their response.

Glen

[voltron]

HI Marc.

I live in Newcastle. If you want to come over and have a look at my 2012 model 110 wagon, take it for a drive, your more then welcome. I know you can drive a new one down at Landrover but I guess, something i think is important is comparing one that has had some minor modifications to suspension and carrying some weight, to a brand new one off the factory floor. This will give you a realistic idea of how the 2.2 performs with weight, and a reasonably good suspension and I can show you some little issues to answer some of your questions by seeing with your own eyes. Nothing I would think that would turn you away, but at least you get the most realistic idea possible.

To answer you question, I have had no water leaks yet myself. And Landrover at Bennetts Green have treated me very well.

Cheers

[MLD]

In answer to the OP about LR mechanics around Newcastle, also consider Modern Motors at Dungog. A little out of the way but they love their landys.

Welcome to the nut house if you buy a defender. Pay no attention to the Discovery drivers, the don't have the huevos to stand up to their wives and buy what they really really want.

Buy the defender you have fallen in love with. As my wife says, you will afford what you want. The Tata ownership seems to have injected some pride in assembly into the recent defenders. Less vehicles being built on Monday morning and Friday post lunch. Having recently watched a doco on the LR assembly they no longer have a single type of car being assembled on the factory floor. Might result in the defender getting some of the love that goes into a Disco 4, RR, etc.

As for rust, if you drive stockton beach you will eventually have rust problems. Not sure about the non-natural rust prevention products but products like lanolin cause sand (with salt crystals) to stick to the chassis and any breach of the protective coating will result in rust attacking exposed areas of the chassis. As an aside, Stockton is no longer fun since the NPWS (and local Elders) have restricted the areas to drive. The level of fun doesn't outweigh the effort required to clean the truck at the end of the day's outing.

MLD

[Mjt084]

Best investment is a carport.

Thanks BilboBoggles,

Believe it or not my significant other has already suggested that if I buy a Defender it can take her car's place in my man shed!

I'm leaning towards a new car for the reasons suggested, I'm also going to be buying on a novated lease and an optioned new car is going to set me back the same as a used car once I take the GST refund into account. I have heard the 30,000km figure stated a few times as well and plan to rack up at least that many km's before the end of the new car warranty.

voltron - PM sent

MLD - I've heard that about Stockton Beach, most of my trips are for camping or fishing though

[EastFreo]

Not that long ago I asked pretty much the same questions.

Just wish I had put the order in sooner as it is a long wait if you put in an order!

Anyway, it's getting closer and today was told the Defender left for South Hampton on Wednesday. Now I just need to wait for the next boat, 4 weeks shipping and however long it takes to clear customs and finish with the dealer additions.

Can't wait!

[Mjt084]

Thanks for the advice and reassurance all, that and another test drive today with my better half in what was quite heavy rain was enough to push me over the line and put a deposit down on a new MY14 Defender 110 optioned as follows;

- Corris Grey with Santorini Black roof and wheel arches.
- Black Sawtooth Alloys
- Side Runners
- Partial Leather Trim
- Front mudflaps
- Window Tint
- Towbar

Still on the boat, due to arrive on Australian shores 24th August, the countdown begins....

[AndyG]

Welcome to the club, my Defender is on the water too, arriving Aug 27 :D, one of the first MY15 builds, :D
It's been a long wait since 15 Mar

[Mjt084]

Welcome to the club, my Defender is on the water too, arriving Aug 27 :D, one of the first MY15 builds, :D
It's been a long wait since 15 Mar

5 months wait! I had the option of an MY15 but was to impatient to wait until November.

[Leyland1980]

Reading about rust and water leaks in relatively modern cars though come as a bit of a shock.

Even the newest defenders do not qualify as "relatively new cars" ;)

[T.Middo]

I had an issue with leaking but it was whilst spending 6 hours driving through a cyclone. The dealer fixed the spots it leaked no questions asked.

[Pickles2]

All of you waiting for your "personal" build?...We did the same. 5-6 months?...That would be the norm I reckon, & that's what it was for us, & believe me guys, when you take delivery,...it will be worth every second.....particularly as after around, or maybe a bit before, the middle of next year, ya won't be able to order a "custom build",....because it will be too late,...FOREVER.
Pickles.

[Beery]

Hi everyone. Thought it was about time I stopped just reading and joined the conversation!
Pickles, you're about spot on with the wait time...I placed an order for a MY15 130 crew cab chassis on 13 June (it was a Friday as well..I hope its not a bad omen! :o).
Got a call from the dealer last week giving me a rough delivery date of early November...so thats about 5 months.
Went with the option of ABS, ETC & DSC too...I wonder if it will be one of the first 130s in Australia to have this!?

Tom

[Pickles2]

Hi everyone. Thought it was about time I stopped just reading and joined the conversation!
Pickles, you're about spot on with the wait time...I placed an order for a MY15 130 crew cab chassis on 13 June (it was a Friday as well..I hope its not a bad omen! :o).
Got a call from the dealer last week giving me a rough delivery date of early November...so thats about 5 months.
Went with the option of ABS, ETC & DSC too...I wonder if it will be one of the first 130s in Australia to have this!?

Tom
Good stuff.
Well, you might be one of the first to have ABS etc etc, I don't know, but you'll certainly be one of the last to take delivery of an iconic 130 in Aus.
What colour will yours be, & what options have you specced?
Funnily enough, we ordered our 90 in June last year, & received it in November.
I was a bit worried as the build date approached as there was the threat of considerable strike action a Solihull, which I thought might delay things, but the strike was averted, & all was well.
You may be interested in asking your Dealer to supply you with copies of the ordering docs for your 130,...they show the order date, build date, options etc, & you can get an update when a VIN is allocated!
Your wait will be worth it. Pickles.

[Beery]

I didn't go too crazy with the extras, but it will have:


Corris Grey with body coloured roof and wheel arches
Front mudflaps
Genuine rubber floor mats (they chucked them in as a sweetener)
ABS/DSC/ETC

It'll also get a Dubbo City Welding steel dropside tray.

I wanted to get the premium part leather front seats...but they're no longer available in the 130. Plus it looks like they've dropped the black ones for MY15 anyway.
Ive got a copy of the contract which has all the vehicle details on it, but of course the boxes for VIN, build date etc are empty...might enquire if I can get that from them now.
Believe me, November cant come quick enough!

[Pickles2]

G'Day Beery, the documentation I'm talking about is the "internal" Dealer stuff that they have on their computer,...I like to keep all that sort of stuff!
A bit early to get a VIN yet I reckon,...won't happen to closer to build date?
I actually wasn't keen on the premium seats, not that they're no good, just that we preferred the more "traditional" look of the standard seats, which in our case, are heated part leather.
Pickles.

[EastFreo]

I also wanted the part premium seats but was told they had ceased offering them. I have ended up with all black leather seats. At first it appeared you could only get the new contrast leather look but then they said no problem.

Let's see what I end up with.

[Beery]

Ah right, well I dont have that info. I know the production run started on 7th July so it could be getting built anytime now. But I'd say with a November delivery it might not be built for a while. I'll see what I can get out of them.

I hear what you say about the look of the premium seats Pickles...they do look pretty comfy though! Thinking I might get some custom made sheepskin covers on the standard seats instead...still half the price of the premium seats!

Before ordering I test drove a black 110 wagon that had just been delivered to the dealer (17km on the clock!). Id never actually driven a defender before, although there have always been Landies in the family (Series 2a SWB & '94 300tdi Disco). Straight away, I had a smile on my face. Felt pretty much the same as sitting in the Series 2...a 50 year old vehicle! The angle you look down on the bonnet and everything else, same. The handbake, same. Even the clutch feels the same!
On the road, the steering and body roll around corners just made the smile wider. If only the transmission whine in high gear was still there!

I guess it means you "get" Land Rovers if they have that effect on you!
Tom

[Beery]

I also wanted the part premium seats but was told they had ceased offering them. I have ended up with all black leather seats. At first it appeared you could only get the new contrast leather look but then they said no problem.

Let's see what I end up with.

I wasn't too keen on the contrast coloured seats. I didnt realise you could get black full leather seats!? Ah well, sheepskins it is for me!

[Pickles2]

I wasn't too keen on the contrast coloured seats. I didnt realise you could get black full leather seats!? Ah well, sheepskins it is for me!
Maybe not.
There is a time frame before build where you can still lock in changes,...See your Dealer if ya wanna change something.
Pickles.

[Mjt084]

Update
=====

The vehicle the dealer had hoped to secure for me had already been sold to someone else (anyone on here?).

I was offered another identical vehicle with cloth seats (for a discounted price) but eventually managed to talk the dealer into doing full leather seats for the original price.

The best news is that the delivery time is now early-mid August!

[AndyG]

You lucky bastard,

I ordered mine 15 March, currently it's sitting in Baltimore, not moving!:mad:

Actually built 07/07. I wonder how LR cope on day one of model changeover, does the variety out weigh the indifference :eek:

[uninformed]

I didn't go too crazy with the extras, but it will have:


Corris Grey with body coloured roof and wheel arches
Front mudflaps
Genuine rubber floor mats (they chucked them in as a sweetener)
ABS/DSC/ETC

It'll also get a Dubbo City Welding steel dropside tray.

I wanted to get the premium part leather front seats...but they're no longer available in the 130. Plus it looks like they've dropped the black ones for MY15 anyway.
Ive got a copy of the contract which has all the vehicle details on it, but of course the boxes for VIN, build date etc are empty...might enquire if I can get that from them now.
Believe me, November cant come quick enough!


There is a official LR pdf document on tray mounting to 110/130s somewhere here in Aulro.

I advise you find it, read it, and make sure your tray is mounted accordingly.