FULL STEAM AHEAD FOR COAL NOW.....

[ramblingboy42]

I have a feeling this will start an avalanche.

Gina has been "trialling" her mine for a long time , but is yet to get approval to go into full production.

Clive Palmer is certain to get his approvals now that he helped the govt repeal the carbon scheme.

Just these 3 mines will directly/indirectly employ about 30, 000 workers.

There are , as far as I know another 3 or 4 proposals for mines in the Galillee basin.

The flowon will be huge including massive road upgrades to haul the necessary plant out there.

There will be transient population of some 20,000+ workers needing to be fed , bed , and watered and transported 24/7 for the next 20-30 years.

So, if you're young and want to get ahead in life here's a real big opportunity.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-07-28/carmichael-coal-mine-project-gets-federal-approval/5628584

[incisor]

wasnt it the talk that the workers were going to be fifo indian?

[isuzurover]

There are a lot being laid off from other mines and/or looking for work, so between that and any migrant workers I wouldn't be too hopeful for jobs for young inexperienced Aussies.

[rovercare]

Be interesting on who they do employ, the indian and phillipino guys here in PNG are paid anywhere between $2US/hr to $11US/hr, they are cheap.....you do need an expat to guide them at all times though...

I know a lot of aussie sites use Chinese labour currently, dude I know had 2 as Boilermaker T/A's on a project

[rovercare]

wasnt it the talk that the workers were going to be fifo indian?

Lots of Indians here to, $4k US/month...same deal though, they generally need "guidance" and work quality standards are, well...interesting

[bob10]

I'm of the opinion, if we don't, some one else will. May as well be us to reap the benefits. As long as Australian domiciled workers are employed. Bob

[rangietragic]

Engineering place had thai[i think] workers here heavily subsidised for a while.They got rid of them after a while as their work was shocking:o

[Chucaro]

Looking at the records of the Indian company in relation to the environment I guess that we have to kiss good bye to the Barrier Reef :(
Greed rules :mad:

[ramblingboy42]

The actual mine workers are not the real beneficiaries of these projects.

If you have any idea of the number of vehicles that need to be on site, this includes hundreds of dump trucks for each mine, plus support vehicles .....4wd utes, cranes etc.

The workers eat thousands of loaves of bread and whatever else for sandwich fillings....drink millions of cups of coffee and milk each day.

They wear hundreds of thousands of sets of protective clothing and boots and PPE like disposable safety glasses and ear defense.

all of this has to be provided by someone....and it is surprising how much local input the mines do use.

I agree with you Arthur as well and note that this approval came so soon after the carbon scheme was repealed.

There are a huge number of projects held in obeyance by the big companies atm and I'm sure now there will a rash of applications for approval coming forward.

[Mick_Marsh]

I agree with you Arthur as well and note that this approval came so soon after the carbon scheme was repealed.
And the mining tax. Has that been repealed yet?

[ramblingboy42]

wasnt it the talk that the workers were going to be fifo indian?

yes there was.

Gina wanted to import a work force as well.

I think there will be some squabbling and they will come to agreement with a set ratio of foreign workers to local.

Once you have done fifo for a while it wears thin....foreign workers may put up with it better.

There are several lovely little towns around the Galillee area , which would be great to settle in and Clive has been negotiating for some sort of accommodation locally for his workforce .

Clive was even considering his own airport and airline to service fifo workers in the area.

I can't see it being any other way really Inc , unless Australians can convince these companies that they can supply a reliable workforce.

[rovercare]

Once you have done fifo for a while it wears thin....foreign workers may put up with it better.



Alot of the Phillipino and Indian workforce that were here on construction were on 1 year on/1 month off, be pretty hard to deter them;)

[incisor]

Lots of Indians here to, $4k US/month...same deal though, they generally need "guidance" and work quality standards are, well...interesting

surely to hell you could get aussies there for $1K a week?

[rovercare]

surely to hell you could get aussies there for $1K a week?

Over that a day;)

[AndyG]

Let's hope any 457 visas are to fill real shortages, not optimistic,:(

Let's hope Aussie workers will accept a fair days pay for a fair days pay and not price themselves out, not optimistic, again.:(

And ideally FIFO is minimized, and some local communities are developed.

Not a fan of FIFO, by my PNG experience, the emphasis is on the Company and Worker filling their pockets and bolting, when the expat family lives there there is a chance schools, medical, and other developments will occur. I imagine FIFO in Oz is not too dissimilar.

We tend to call them seagulls, ......

[Sitec]

Gina's Roy Hill Project is well under way. I was an Emergency Services Officer up there in Port Headland for a while. All four rail camps and the mine are live and the rail corridor is being forged. There's also an airport that's live and can accept a 747... Re foreign workers... Madness. There's many who'd want to fill the spaces, they just need to make it nicer for the family's.. 2 wks on 2 wks off, running two shifts. Worked for me. Oz needs to look after its own and not import too many more, as the country will change for the worse.. It has in Europe...:(

[rovercare]

Let's hope any 457 visas are to fill real shortages, not optimistic,:(

Let's hope Aussie workers will accept a fair days pay for a fair days pay and not price themselves out, not optimistic, again.:(

And ideally FIFO is minimized, and some local communities are developed.

Not a fan of FIFO, by my PNG experience, the emphasis is on the Company and Worker filling their pockets and bolting, when the expat family lives there there is a chance schools, medical, and other developments will occur. I imagine FIFO in Oz is not too dissimilar.

We tend to call them seagulls, ......

This little seagull has the pleasure of teaching a team of nationals how to do his job, I certainly wouldn't go in country personally as spectacular as it is here in places, the rest of it...well..

Seen the misima mine documentary? there is alot to be said about education in keeping a community alive once the cash cow has passed

Aussies are overpriced, have been for along time and with that comes a large cost of living, its all relevant

[Chucaro]

surely to hell you could get aussies there for $1K a week?

There is not need, they have to work for the dole now.

[Mick_Marsh]

surely to hell you could get aussies there for $1K a week?
It depends on the deal. Are accommodation and meals included? Where I am at the moment I have to pay for that myself, and I don't know whether you have noticed, Australia is a very expensive place to live.

[LandyAndy]

There is not need, they have to work for the dole now.

And apply for 2 jobs a day,good ****:cool::cool::cool::cool::cool::cool:
Andrew

[Chucaro]

Abbot Point: Indian mining firm's environment record under scrutiny (http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2013/nov/14/abbot-point-indian-record-scrutiny)

On the top of that, Quote from The Guardian: coal from the mine will cause an additional 128m tonnes of carbon dioxide to be released into the atmosphere. By contrast, the Australian government’s proposed Direct Action climate scheme, which targets only domestic emissions, aims to reduce emissions by 131m tonnes each year.


What a joke, and a bad one for sure.........

[incisor]

I don't know whether you have noticed, Australia is a very expensive place to live.

really, go figure...

life's just a box of chocolates hey mick...

[Sitec]

I don't know whether you have noticed, Australia is a very expensive place to live.


Ummmm, sorry but no its not! Its still very affordable. Now, Europe... That's expensive!! Everything here is roughly half what we used to pay... Fuel, houses....

[incisor]

aims to reduce emissions by 131m tonnes each year.

how many tonnes does china, america and india put out each day arthur?

china alone puts out 21,123,287 tonnes each day :p

as important as australia is, i don't think it matters jack **** if you look at it that way.

on a per capita basis we are still less than 1/2 what the saudi's contribute and a tad less than america but only 4 times bigger than china it seems.

so where is china getting all that other co2 creating stuff from?

[incisor]

Over that a day;)

here's hoping it brings you what your hoping it will ;)

[Mick_Marsh]

Ummmm, sorry but no its not! Its still very affordable. Now, Europe... That's expensive!! Everything here is roughly half what we used to pay... Fuel, houses....
Even at todays prices with current exchange rates?
Because my industry competes on the world market, when our dollar was sixty US cents, we were good value. Nowdays, on the global market, we are expensive. Lots of our work has been redirected to the overseas offices. Quite a few of my colleagues are working on Australian projects in overseas offices. They live very cheaply over there, living like kings.

[steane]

Abbot Point: Indian mining firm's environment record under scrutiny (http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2013/nov/14/abbot-point-indian-record-scrutiny)

On the top of that, Quote from The Guardian: coal from the mine will cause an additional 128m tonnes of carbon dioxide to be released into the atmosphere. By contrast, the Australian government’s proposed Direct Action climate scheme, which targets only domestic emissions, aims to reduce emissions by 131m tonnes each year.


What a joke, and a bad one for sure.........

Do you believe that refusing to sell coal to India is going to change that countries greenhouse gas emissions?

Do you believe that we should be responsible for the greenhouse gas emissions of other countries?

Don't we burn coal in Australia to produce power?

I believe its a nice idea to lead by example but you have to set the example first and then cut a bit of slack to the developing countries. Give them a chance to catch up before we expect them to slap a few million windmills in their backyard. At least wait until they have a few unions running, people are being paid well and can expect some decent workplace safety practices on the windmill farm. They can be dangerous places especially when its windy.

Or they could follow our lead and continue to burn coal while charging the populace an exorbitant price for energy so that they can no longer afford to use energy and keep putting the price up because demand oddly enough has fallen. Save the planet by putting pensioners on payment plans and freezing them to death in the winter;)

Some excellent strategies to consider but they are in the future for countries like India and we shouldn't presume to tell them whats what just yet.

In my opinion.

[rovercare]

here's hoping it brings you what your hoping it will ;)

Life brings everything you could wish for, its all just a matter of perception:)

[nugge t]

There's many who'd want to fill the spaces, they just need to make it nicer for the family's.. 2 wks on 2 wks off, running two shifts. Worked for me. Oz needs to look after its own and not import too many more, as the country will change for the worse.. It has in Europe...:(

Without being rude..isnt that exactly part of the cost problem. That isn't being nice...it is being sensational. 100% pay for 70% work ?

I employ 4 Indians in my factory and they are some of the best workers I have ever had and they earn the same wages. In fact they earn more because they work harder and more consistently and are rewarded under our bonus system.

The last Aussie I employed resigned and then asked if I would put that I sacked him on the Seperation Certificate.

[gossamer]

they just need to make it nicer for the family's.. 2 wks on 2 wks off, running two shifts. Worked for me. .:(

I heard some of the mines run 3 shifts, 2 9hr and 1 6hr. the 6hr between 9 and 3 so the wife's can drive dump trucks while the kids are at school.

[ramblingboy42]

I tend to agree Nugget:D

Having worked in the mining arena for few a few years , I observed probably less than your 70% suggested.

Nearly every worker would knock off for smoko ten minutes early and come back ten minutes late.

Same at crib.

That equates to thousands of man hours lost to idleness each day and that is only in one mine.

If the Australian worker lifts his attitude to his employer , people like Gina would not be seeking an alternative workforce.(maybe....)

[BMKal]

I heard some of the mines run 3 shifts, 2 9hr and 1 6hr. the 6hr between 9 and 3 so the wife's can drive dump trucks while the kids are at school.

Common practice in the South West of WA. ;)

Not just for truck drivers either. I have a friend who is an electrician working the 6 hour shift Monday to Friday (single father). The company he works for has a policy not to employ people who live outside the local community unless the positions cannot be filled locally.

[Chucaro]

how many tonnes does china, america and india put out each day arthur?

china alone puts out 21,123,287 tonnes each day :p

as important as australia is, i don't think it matters jack **** if you look at it that way.

on a per capita basis we are still less than 1/2 what the saudi's contribute and a tad less than america but only 4 times bigger than china it seems.

so where is china getting all that other co2 creating stuff from?

I was thinking that if we implement a policy or believe that we have to do something regarding the environment like reduce the emissions.
It have nothing to do with what other countries are doing.
If we are going to do that then stop the bull of introducing policies like the Direct action that will cost us the tax payers $1300 a year and join the polluters.
It is a matter to do the right thing or just be honest and give priority to the "dollar"
By the way, the mining tat Palmer intent to open will produce more emissions than this one, so we keep adding to the problem.

[ramblingboy42]

I heard some of the mines run 3 shifts, 2 9hr and 1 6hr. the 6hr between 9 and 3 so the wife's can drive dump trucks while the kids are at school.

you hear lots of things , but the reality is different.

WHS demand a very high and comprehensive induction programme on every mine site for their dumpies.

It's not taken lightly using mums to fill in.

[Redback]

You know what, all I can see in this thread is we are justifing this new mine/mines and it's emissions because we aren't putting out as much as the 3 largest emissions criminals, the fact is we are still polluting and the biggest tragedy is the Great Barrier Reef is going the suffer the most.

Doesn't anybody give a rats arse about this???????

Baz.

[ramblingboy42]

You know what, all I can see in this thread is we are justifing this new mine/mines and it's emissions because we aren't putting out as much as the 3 largest emissions criminals, the fact is we are still polluting and the biggest tragedy is the Great Barrier Reef is going the suffer the most.

Doesn't anybody give a rats arse about this???????

Baz.

well yes , we do.

I love the reef, I have done hundreds of dives in many different locations throughout its length and breadth.

I was a campaigner against this and an original active member of the GBRMPA.

Warning lights have been on for all , for over 30 years....who has observed them?

The oceans ARE rising , an undeniable fact now.

The reef is so sensitive to light and water variations that unfortunately a lot of it is going to die.

Some areas , as the shoreline creeps up the reef can follow it if it's not too fast.

The Institute of Marine Science have shown that as long as conditions don't worsen too fast and the water heights and water condition don't change to fast , that the reef can cope and adjust and regrow.

BUT......unfortunately these things are happening too quickly for the reef to compensate.

So the reef will soon become just a rising lump in the foreshore full of mullet.

[incisor]

Life brings everything you could wish for, its all just a matter of perception:)

very true, sometimes it also brings things you would never wish for...

which was why i hoped it worked well for you ;)

[rovercare]

very true, sometimes it also brings things you would never wish for...

which was why i hoped it worked well for you ;)

Lots of things you never wish for, most are a blessing in disguise :D

[rick130]

Lots of things you never wish for, most are a blessing in disguise :D


Geez Matt, you've become quite the philosopher ! :D

[Chucaro]

David Rowe have a good cartoon today about the topic :D

[DiscoMick]

So, it seems we have overproduction into a glutted market which has caused steep falls in prices, just as the trend is away from coal towards renewables. Doesn't sound like a good time to get into coal.


The resources war could cost us dearly - The Drum (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-07-28/verrender-the-resources-war-could-cost-us-dearly/5627796)

[ramblingboy42]

Well, Adani aren't selling their coal on the market , so it makes little difference to them....just the price to get it out of the ground and over to India.

The australian govt has just shown a complete disregard for renewables , so it may be some time again before it gets any priority in Australia.

sad, but true I'm afraid.

[PAT303]

Geez Matt, you've become quite the philosopher ! :D

Either that or they need a room. Pat

[DiscoMick]

This mob of rednecks certainly seems skeptical about renewables, but reality will force them to come around eventually. Meanwhile, hard-headed consumers just want to cut their power bills and know solar works, so I reckon it will keep growing anyway.
Coal still has a future, but only as part of a shrinking percentage of the mix.

[nugge t]

This mob of rednecks certainly seems skeptical about renewables, but reality will force them to come around eventually. Meanwhile, hard-headed consumers just want to cut their power bills and know solar works, so I reckon it will keep growing anyway.
Coal still has a future, but only as part of a shrinking percentage of the mix.

starting with this sort of dribble does nothing to give credibilty to the rest of your post.

[Bob Harding]

In the long run

[ramblingboy42]

Guess that cartoon must have some relevancy , but I'm searching hard to find it.

[DiscoMick]

starting with this sort of dribble does nothing to give credibilty to the rest of your post.

My opinion is they're behaving like a bunch of rednecks. You're free to disagree, of course. Judging by the polls, my opinion is widely shared.

[ramblingboy42]

I understood all this kind of stuff had been settled but alas ...no.

I hope the "N" of the LNP will look after the cockies.
Weather News - Carmichael coal project rail corridor worries Queensland grazier more than the coal mine itself (http://www.weatherzone.com.au/news/carmichael-coal-project-rail-corridor-worries-queensland-grazier-more-than-the-coal-mine-itself/109324)

[frantic]

As usual we have the standard line in relation to pay and 457 visa workers.
If Adani pay every worker (3900 according to article) an average of $100,000 /$2,000 a week it's under 9% the cost of the coals selling price of 68-72/$ton.
38hrs is the weekly , anything above is negotiated/overtime.
The funny thing is people throwing insults at the mine workers doing the FIFO even time or worse rosters as being overpaid and underworked/ lazy ,but don't suggest their own relo's have a go at it to raise their income. They know the answer would be "make like a rabbit" :twisted:as a lot of people are not prepared to lose 6-9 months a year from their family and at best half their weekends for a few dollars more.
The higher you make the $$$ the more people will consider leaving their burb based job. If the pay is not much higher than unemployment and transport costs you won't get many hanging around for long. ;)
Even then as most know there is a high turnover rate as some burn out , others get enough cash to achieve their goal, whilst others move on in pursuit of more $$$$.

[nugge t]

My opinion is they're behaving like a bunch of rednecks. You're free to disagree, of course. Judging by the polls, my opinion is widely shared.

That is not what you said. You clearly labeled them as "this mob of rednecks".

Given the definition of Wiki of Redneck...

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Jump to: navigation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redneck#mw-navigation), search (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redneck#p-search)
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/07/57.jpg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Protection_policy#semi)
This article is about redneck as a pejorative. For the subculture, see Poor White (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poor_White). For other uses, see Redneck (disambiguation) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redneck_(disambiguation)).
The term Redneck is chiefly used for a poor rural white person of the Southern United States. It can be a derogatory slang term[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redneck#cite_note-1)[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redneck#cite_note-2) similar in meaning to cracker (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cracker_(pejorative)) (especially regarding Georgia and Florida), hillbilly (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillbilly) (especially regarding Appalachia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appalachia) and the Ozarks (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ozarks)),[3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redneck#cite_note-3) and white trash (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_trash) (but without the last term's suggestions of immorality).[4] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redneck#cite_note-4)[5] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redneck#cite_note-5)[6] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redneck#cite_note-6)
By 1975, say Chapman and Kipfer, the term had expanded in meaning beyond the poor Southerner to refer to "a bigoted and conventional person, a loutish ultra-conservative."[7] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redneck#cite_note-7) It is often used to attack white Southern conservatives (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservatism_in_the_United_States). The term is also used broadly to degrade working class and rural whites that are perceived by urban progressives to be insufficiently liberal.[8] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redneck#cite_note-8) At the same time, some white Southerners have reclaimed the word, using it with pride and defiance as a self-identifier

how do you justify your comment other than to illustrate your own bias?

[ramblingboy42]

uh-oh.....that looks like his noodleness the FSM getting involved.....be very very careful....and reverent .

[AndyG]

Whilst i would agree we have made a mess of this planet, and it's the only one we have, i wonder about the sincerity of some who espouse the green theme over all others, e.g.
*Al Gore whose home has a carbon footprint 7 times the american average, he buys carbon credits, but not sure how this makes his carbon disappear, why not lead by example.
* Green pollies who happily fly Business Class & use ComCar, train & bus are for the little people.
* And my favorite, greenies i know who have large families, contributing to the planets burden.

I am an economic conservative & apparently a social liberal, but back im the 70/80's we made a conscious decision, 2 kids only.

So overall, i am cynical about much of the green movement, esp the renewable sector that demands and expects the community to subsidize them. However i also defend their right to have a point of view without denigration and name calling, and vice versa.

Now if we consider a cow as a metaphor forthe economy as a whole
Socialism

You have two cows. You keep one and give one to your neighbor.

Communism

You have two cows. The government takes them both and provides you with milk.

Fascism

You have two cows. The government takes them and sells you the milk.

Bureaucracy

You have two cows. The government takes them both, shoots one, milks the other, pays you for the milk, and then pours it down the drain.

Capitalism

You have two cows. You sell one and buy a bull.

Corporate

You have two cows. You sell one, force the other to produce the milk of four cows and then act surprised when it drops dead.

Democracy

You have two cows. The government taxes you to the point that you must sell them both in order to support a man in a foreign country who has only one cow which was a gift from your government.

A CHRISTIAN:

You have two cows. You keep one and give one to your neighbor.

A SOCIALIST:

You have two cows. The government takes one and gives it to your neighbor.

A REPUBLICAN:

You have two cows. Your neighbor has none. So what?

A DEMOCRAT:

You have two cows. Your neighbor has none. You feel guilty for being successful. You vote people into office who tax your cows, forcing you to sell one to raise money to pay the tax. The people you voted for then take the tax money and buy a cow and give it to your neighbor. You feel righteous.

A FASCIST:

You have two cows. The government seizes both and sells you the milk. You join the underground and start a campaign of sabotage.

DEMOCRACY, AMERICAN STYLE:

You have two cows. The government taxes you to the point you have to sell both to support a man in a foreign country who has only one cow, which was a gift from your government.

CAPITALISM, AMERICAN STYLE:

You have two cows. You sell one, buy a bull, and build a herd of cows.

BUREAUCRACY, AMERICAN STYLE:

You have two cows. The government takes them both, shoots one, milks the other, pays you for the milk, then pours the milk down the drain.

AN AMERICAN CORPORATION:

You have two cows. You sell one, and force the other to produce the milk of >four cows. You are surprised when the cow drops dead.

A FRENCH CORPORATION:

You have two cows. You go on strike because you want three cows.

A JAPANESE CORPORATION:

You have two cows. You redesign them so they are one-tenth the size of an ordinary cow and produce twenty times the milk.

A GERMAN CORPORATION:

You have two cows. You reengineer them so they live for 100 years, eat once a month, and milk themselves.

AN ITALIAN CORPORATION:

You have two cows but you don't know where they are. You break for lunch.

A RUSSIAN CORPORATION:

You have two cows. You count them and learn you have five cows. You count them again and learn you have 42 cows. You count them again and learn you have 12 cows. You stop counting cows and open another bottle of vodka.

A MEXICAN CORPORATION:

You think you have two cows, but you don't know what a cow looks like. You take a nap.

A SWISS CORPORATION:

You have 5000 cows, none of which belongs to you. You charge for storing them >for others.

A BRAZILIAN CORPORATION:

You have two cows. You enter into a partnership with an American corporation. Soon you have 1000 cows and the American corporation declares bankruptcy.

A TALIBAN CORPORATION:

You have two cows. You turn them loose in the Afghan "countryside" and they >both die. You blame the godless American infidels and the Jews.

AN INDIAN CORPORATION:

You have two cows. You worship them.

[ramblingboy42]

so what am I?

I have two cows, I slaughter them....

and invite everyone around for a barby.....byo of course.

[AndyG]

Possibly a very well fed anarchist, who see's cows as a tool of capitalism:p

[Redback]

All this talk of cows is making me hungry, eating cows, saves the environment you know.

[AndyG]

:angel:All that methane, me i am thinking of becoming a cannibal and eating my (self censored, i cant say that)

[AnD3rew]

Can we trust Adani with the Great Barrier Reef? - YouTube

[bob10]

so what am I?

I have two cows, I slaughter them....

and invite everyone around for a barby.....byo of course.


I'll bring the prawns & fish, Bob

[DiscoMick]

""a bigoted and conventional person, a loutish ultra-conservative."


Like I said, rednecks.