200 or 300tdi 110 for The Big Trip

[discowolf]

Hi all
Just wondering about maybe a 110 for my next vehicle. Currently 4.2 diesel GQ (over 20yrs old now), but would like to get back to a LR product. Planning on retirement in next couple of years and plan to see most of Oz progressively over a few years. Also do have a caravan (1800Kg) for some trips, but not for Gibb, Tanami etc.
So what do you think? Would be thinking 200 or 300tdi. One preferred over the other for this sort of work? Not against having engine re-build to ensure reliable service. This will probably be my last car purchase. Is this a good idea? By the way, nothing wrong with Patrol, but really keen to get back to LR.
Any comments on idea, suitability, etc etc most welcome.
Cheers, Chris

[weeds]

Far more 300's around, 200's are getting quite thin on the ground

I tow a 1300kg camper trailer behind my 300, at times I would like a fee more herbs but I'm never in a rush

Mine has 385k on the clock.....

[steane]

I'll tell you how this will go.

1. You'll have someone tell you the 200tdi is best because 20 years ago it had less issues than the 300tdi

2. A few more will vouch for the 300tdi because it is easier to get parts for and if it does blow a head gasket you only need one spanner and a piece of fencing wire to replace it.

3. Then a TD5 owner or two will drop in and tell you what you want is more power. You see, a tuned tdi is only as good as a stock td5. There is nothing wrong with a well lubricated loom either as it stops the wires from rusting which is a bonus if you do a lot of water crossings.

4. Then (and this is inevitable unfortunately because they are devoid of self control) you'll have one of probably three vocal 4BD1/4BD1T engined Landy owners tell you all of the other engines are crap and the Isuzu is the only way to go because you are far better off chewing gearboxes than breaking cranks or blowing head gaskets. They'll take this seriously as well and respond accordingly.

In my opinion, you are better off buying the very best Defender you can afford, irrespective of what is under the bonnet. All of the engines are reliable if well maintained and offer different driving experiences, all of which have their positives and negatives. The engine type is less important than the vehicle condition and the way it has been maintained and cared for. They will all take you anywhere you want to go reliably if they are treated right.

If you want a money pit, buy a cheap ratty, rusty, uncared for Defender.

If you want reasonable airconditioning buy a Puma. Nothing wrong with their donks either.

[2stroke]

Steane pretty much summed it up.:) Either Tdi will be fine but if there's nothing wrong with the Patrol maybe you'd be better off just going in that? The 110s with Tdi's will be more economical and perhaps carry a little more but apart from that no great advantage over your Patrol, and it's "the devil you know".
I guess if you're in the market for a Defender you could also consider a 130?

[mudmouse]

1800kg being dragged about by a loaded Defender is a big ask... Turbo it may be, but 2.4/2.5l is a little engine and it's going to feel it.

Matt

[Distortion]

laughed at the 4bd1 comment, it's pretty accurate.
Love driving mine but I'm always concerned about the GB

[Dervish]

There's nothing I can add to the posts above - which are all spot on - but because you asked for votes I'll put one in for the 300tdi. Mine has 454,000km on it now, and it has been relatively trouble free.

[PAT303]

I'll tell you how this will go.

1. You'll have someone tell you the 200tdi is best because 20 years ago it had less issues than the 300tdi

2. A few more will vouch for the 300tdi because it is easier to get parts for and if it does blow a head gasket you only need one spanner and a piece of fencing wire to replace it.

3. Then a TD5 owner or two will drop in and tell you what you want is more power. You see, a tuned tdi is only as good as a stock td5. There is nothing wrong with a well lubricated loom either as it stops the wires from rusting which is a bonus if you do a lot of water crossings.

4. Then (and this is inevitable unfortunately because they are devoid of self control) you'll have one of probably three vocal 4BD1/4BD1T engined Landy owners tell you all of the other engines are crap and the Isuzu is the only way to go because you are far better off chewing gearboxes than breaking cranks or blowing head gaskets. They'll take this seriously as well and respond accordingly.

In my opinion, you are better off buying the very best Defender you can afford, irrespective of what is under the bonnet. All of the engines are reliable if well maintained and offer different driving experiences, all of which have their positives and negatives. The engine type is less important than the vehicle condition and the way it has been maintained and cared for. They will all take you anywhere you want to go reliably if they are treated right.

If you want a money pit, buy a cheap ratty, rusty, uncared for Defender.

If you want reasonable airconditioning buy a Puma. Nothing wrong with their donks either.

Give me a break,this is AULRO,you know you can't let facts like this get in the way of a good story,you didn't even come up with a decent TDCi story about the electrics leaving you stranded or the Tdi wearing out the big ends,fail mate fail. Pat

[PAT303]

1800kg being dragged about by a loaded Defender is a big ask... Turbo it may be, but 2.4/2.5l is a little engine and it's going to feel it.

Matt

Never bothered either of mine. Pat

[rovercare]

Just keep the GQ:D

[discowolf]

Thanks for replies so far. Keep them coming.
As for GQ I might keep it anyway, but really want to get back to LR product. Have had SWB III and v8 disco in the past. Love the look of Defender; nearly bought one new back in mid 90s.
I thought towing van would be a problem, so the towing rate of 3.5T is not in anyway practical is it? I had my concerns towing with relatively small motor.
Of course for the BIG trip probably have a lighter camper trailer; definitely not taking current van up top end. Maybe even tent as I travel with G/shepherd.
Anyway other comments really welcome, especially in regards to 300tdi as I do lean slightly in that direction.
cheers

[steane]

Give me a break,this is AULRO,you know you can't let facts like this get in the way of a good story,you didn't even come up with a decent TDCi story about the electrics leaving you stranded or the Tdi wearing out the big ends,fail mate fail. Pat

Sorry Pat. I know I've let you down. I forgot about the p gasket and plastic head dowels as well. So many left stranded over the years and I've let them all down.

As for the OP's questions, I've towed with a 300tdi without issues and enjoyed good reliability and fuel economy over 30k kms of 4wding and remote outback travelling. I wouldnt hesitate to choose a 300tdi powered defender for touring, just find one that has been looked after.

[isuzurover]

Just keep the GQ:D

Or better yet, transplant the whole GQ driveline into a defender body/chassis.

As for the other comments, I have a 300tdi and a 4BD1(T). Both are on their 2nd gearbox. The 300tdi has let me down more times in 2 years than the 4BD1(T) has in 12. One tows effortlessly, the other struggles to keep the speed limit when towing (guess which is which).

[rovercare]

Thanks for replies so far. Keep them coming.
As for GQ I might keep it anyway, but really want to get back to LR product. Have had SWB III and v8 disco in the past. Love the look of Defender; nearly bought one new back in mid 90s.
I thought towing van would be a problem, so the towing rate of 3.5T is not in anyway practical is it? I had my concerns towing with relatively small motor.
Of course for the BIG trip probably have a lighter camper trailer; definitely not taking current van up top end. Maybe even tent as I travel with G/shepherd.
Anyway other comments really welcome, especially in regards to 300tdi as I do lean slightly in that direction.
cheers

What year is the GQ? if its an early silver top with no rust, keep it, fit good turbo and 12mm pump, good clutch and drive forever more, 200+HP at the treads and ever reliable

I certainly would not consider a similar age defender just because, if you really want a LR product, why not a series or something fun for day outings?

I could understand if you were looking to purchase something newer, I wouldn't have a TD5, but a puma would be a reasonable decision, but certainly not a 200-300tdi

[discowolf]

Hi rovercare, yes silver top, no rust. Bought it when about 17yrs old from 1st owner. Old bloke who did about 9k per year. Didn't even have dust in it (unlike now). Car has now just reached 275k. religiously serviced, never scrimp on service or repairs when required. Not interested on blowing the engine. Pulls like a steam-train, but admit its slower uphill, even when not towing. But that doesn't bother me.






Why wouldn't you have a 2-300tdi? For me a 110 is highly desirable. Surely a 300 fully maintained (rebuilt motor etc if necessary) would be good for touring Oz? How's that fellow (timko?) from Finland travelling Mongolia on another post? So many seem to have great service from theirs. Am I missing something here as I peer through my rose coloured glasses?

[rovercare]

Hi rovercare, yes silver top, no rust. Bought it when about 17yrs old from 1st owner. Old bloke who did about 9k per year. Didn't even have dust in it (unlike now). Car has now just reached 275k. religiously serviced, never scrimp on service or repairs when required. Not interested on blowing the engine. Pulls like a steam-train, but admit its slower uphill, even when not towing. But that doesn't bother me.






Why wouldn't you have a 2-300tdi? For me a 110 is highly desirable. Surely a 300 fully maintained (rebuilt motor etc if necessary) would be good for touring Oz? How's that fellow (timko?) from Finland travelling Mongolia on another post? So many seem to have great service from theirs. Am I missing something here as I peer through my rose coloured glasses?


Better the devil you know, old vehicles can be buying other people problems, the TD42 will take a turbo and big fuel pump no problems and the drivetrain will go forever, I have one with chinese turbo...was cheap rusty GQ just for bush....its done 450,000kms now

Saying that, if you were looking at buying a GQ and selling a 110 of similar age I'd suggest the same, to keep the vehicle you know

[Vern]

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/general-chat/196884-what-vehicle-long-distance-remote-travel.html
Didn't we determined all this here ^^^^, keep the nissan:p

[isuzurover]

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/general-chat/196884-what-vehicle-long-distance-remote-travel.html
Didn't we determined all this here ^^^^, keep the nissan:p

good find. Maybe the mods should merge threads.

The only good thing I can say about a 300tdi is that they are extremely economical when not towing.

[loanrangie]

But its a GQ , I'd rather drive a shagged out defender than any model nissan any day of the week .
My old man has had 2 from new then a GU and now a Navara and they all handle like a bowl of jelly.

[discowolf]

Hi Vern, bang on the money mate. Just me having a slight change of direction Disco to Def. Didn't want to waste people's time here, but really interested in getting as much info and opinions. I truly appreciate the responses. Cheers everyone, and thanks

[Vern]

Gq, Isuzu county, puma. Done:D

[rovercare]

But its a GQ , I'd rather drive a shagged out defender than any model nissan any day of the week .
My old man has had 2 from new then a GU and now a Navara and they all handle like a bowl of jelly.

But being one eyed, makes you partially blind:)

[Pedro_The_Swift]

true,, but that doesnt change the jelly bit,,:D

[rick130]

But its a GQ , I'd rather drive a shagged out defender than any model nissan any day of the week .
My old man has had 2 from new then a GU and now a Navara and they all handle like a bowl of jelly.
Driven a GQ and GU from new too, and that's easily fixed with decent springs and dampers, although you need to lift one a fair bit just to equal the bump travel of a Deefer, which can make a difference in ride comfort on indifferent roads.

I'd be keeping the GQ too and turboing it.
It's stronger in every area the Landy is 'weak', ie. front diff, g/box and that TD42 will go forever and has a bucket load more bottom end torque than a Tdi, although it'll consume a lot more fuel on a trip than a Tdi too.
Front seats need addressing though, the Nissan ones are awful !

[discowolf]

Hi rick130,
Agree seats are not the best. Looked at Stratos (1700+) and Recaro (2500) so haven't changed them yet, but still tempted. As for turbo, not interested at all. But I agree with you about keeping GQ.
I have to say that my heart really wants a Def110. My head says, whoa boy, get all info and consider carefully. So I'm thinking as has been suggested, get a vehicle for playing and keep GQ for the long distance travel. This will quite likely be the course of action, but I have to say this; I'm surprised that nearly all comments are negative to some extent, but surely a well maintained and presented LR product (eg 110 300tdi) can't be that much of a liability? Surely it must be suitable to take to the Cape, or Gibb RR etc.? Surely???
cheers all.

[rovercare]

Hi rick130,
Agree seats are not the best. Looked at Stratos (1700+) and Recaro (2500) so haven't changed them yet, but still tempted. As for turbo, not interested at all. But I agree with you about keeping GQ.
I have to say that my heart really wants a Def110. My head says, whoa boy, get all info and consider carefully. So I'm thinking as has been suggested, get a vehicle for playing and keep GQ for the long distance travel. This will quite likely be the course of action, but I have to say this; I'm surprised that nearly all comments are negative to some extent, but surely a well maintained and presented LR product (eg 110 300tdi) can't be that much of a liability? Surely it must be suitable to take to the Cape, or Gibb RR etc.? Surely???
cheers all.

Why would you not consider a turbo? they certainly make a dog of a thing into something great to drive, especially with what has been developed for the TD42 these days?

[2stroke]

Absolutely nothing wrong with a Tdi Defender for remote touring. In my case I just think that there's a massive advantage to knowing whatever vehicle you are travelling in the way that only owning it for years can provide. You know what tools to take, spares you may need (and just as importantly those you can leave behind) and the subtle warning signs when the old girl's trying to tell you something. All things being equal I'd prefer a Defender due to better economy, and therefore fuel range, and good carrying capacity. Just that in my opinion service history and dependability are more important.

[PAT303]

Hi rick130,
Agree seats are not the best. Looked at Stratos (1700+) and Recaro (2500) so haven't changed them yet, but still tempted. As for turbo, not interested at all. But I agree with you about keeping GQ.
I have to say that my heart really wants a Def110. My head says, whoa boy, get all info and consider carefully. So I'm thinking as has been suggested, get a vehicle for playing and keep GQ for the long distance travel. This will quite likely be the course of action, but I have to say this; I'm surprised that nearly all comments are negative to some extent, but surely a well maintained and presented LR product (eg 110 300tdi) can't be that much of a liability? Surely it must be suitable to take to the Cape, or Gibb RR etc.? Surely???
cheers all.

Nothing wrong with the Tdi except they are getting old and racking up big K's so more problems are coming out because of it.I would have a Tdi over the Patrol because I have a Tdi,I would not sell yours with only 275k's on it because rust is the thing that kills them not K's.I would spend some dollars on it,for sure I would turbo it but also really get onto the cooling before hand,they are notorious for overheating and replace the suspension and all the bushes and a good bumper to bumper service. Pat

[steane]

Hi rick130,
Agree seats are not the best. Looked at Stratos (1700+) and Recaro (2500) so haven't changed them yet, but still tempted. As for turbo, not interested at all. But I agree with you about keeping GQ.
I have to say that my heart really wants a Def110. My head says, whoa boy, get all info and consider carefully. So I'm thinking as has been suggested, get a vehicle for playing and keep GQ for the long distance travel. This will quite likely be the course of action, but I have to say this; I'm surprised that nearly all comments are negative to some extent, but surely a well maintained and presented LR product (eg 110 300tdi) can't be that much of a liability? Surely it must be suitable to take to the Cape, or Gibb RR etc.? Surely???
cheers all.

Yeah, its a good place for a dose of negativity at times. Gets a bit boring.

As I alluded to in my first response (where I uncannily predicted the future), you'll need to wade through a lot of personal opinion to find a bit of reality on this topic on this forum. Defenders are bloody great machines and they will all, no matter what is under the bonnet, do the job if they are in good nick and well maintained.

If you want one, get a good one and enjoy it. It will take you anywhere you want to go.

[djam1]

If you want a Defender go out and buy the best one you can afford.
Search the World not just this forum everything has its weaknesses do what YOU want.
The GQ like all things has its weaknesses as well (the body will disintegrate on corrugated roads the chassis will crack).
You are talking about a tourer not a Bull Catcher

The Defender will be fine
.
This forum astounds me at times.

[isuzurover]

...As for turbo, not interested at all. ....

??????????? Yet you are considering a Tdi?????????????????????

[Vern]

Terriblydamnslowdi not turbodi

[2stroke]

A mate and I were towing our Suzi LJ50s home on Sunday from Janowen Hills to Ipswich. He was in an Isuzu 120 on 235/85s and I was in a Tdi 130 on 255s. I was following him. He was able to maintain 90 km/h on the flat (probably 100 on his speedo but 90 on mine) but dropped to 80 and even 70 on most hills. Mine could maintain 100 up the hills if I wanted to but I backed off to stay behind. He'll be putting a turbo under the bonnet soon, will be interesting to see how that changes things. Either way how fast so you want to go?

[2stroke]

In fact I stopped once to change a headgasket and once to replace the bigends and still beat him home.:p

[rovercare]

.
This forum astounds me at times.

Because everybody should convince him to buy a land rover, regardless of pragmatic thought process?:D

[steane]

Because everybody should convince him to buy a land rover, regardless of pragmatic thought process?:D

When I read the OP question and take a pragmatic approach as to what is being asked, I don't see them requiring any convincing to buy a Land Rover. :D

[PAT303]

If you want a Defender go out and buy the best one you can afford.
Search the World not just this forum everything has its weaknesses do what YOU want.
The GQ like all things has its weaknesses as well (the body will disintegrate on corrugated roads the chassis will crack).
You are talking about a tourer not a Bull Catcher

The Defender will be fine
.
This forum astounds me at times.

The constant knocking of everything Rover by the same three or four people is getting old,the worse thing is one of them in particular has lots to say but has never traveled Australia,ever,I'm on a few different forums and unfortunately there is key board experts on all of them. Pat

[PAT303]

In fact I stopped once to change a headgasket and once to replace the bigends and still beat him home.:p

I've got it down to under an hour,how about you?. Pat

[PAT303]

Because everybody should convince him to buy a land rover, regardless of pragmatic thought process?:D

The bloke posted he wants a Tdi defender,then the chest beaters arrived and down hill this thread went. Pat

[PAT303]

Because everybody should convince him to buy a land rover, regardless of pragmatic thought process?:D

The bloke posted he wants a Tdi Defender because he likes them,it was the chest beaters that sent the thread off the rails. Pat

[rovercare]

The constant knocking of everything Rover by the same three or four people is getting old,the worse thing is one of them in particular has lots to say but has never traveled Australia,ever,I'm on a few different forums and unfortunately there is key board experts on all of them. Pat

Who has never travelled aus? I've still got a lot to go, been simpson desert, all over Northern NSW, caught up with rangier rover after cliffhanger (anyone heard from him?) Most all of vic, king island, tasmania, fair bit from mataranka, litchfield, kakadont, northern coast around Darwin...plans are flinders island this summer, fraser island and QLD coast next winter, maybe cape York, just to cover yet another tiny speck of this great land


The bloke posted he wants a Tdi Defender because he likes them,it was the chest beaters that sent the thread off the rails. Pat

He can buy what he likes, there is a difference between thinking with emotion and thinking with the brain, both completely acceptable, but one should expect varied opinions:)

Pretty sure the other guys here that say keep the Nissan have also travelled a fait bit, need their resume too Pat? or do we just continue to be "keyboard warriors, beating our chests?":D

Either way, selling an old vehicle you know the history off, to buy one similar age you don't is not a logical move, whether it be selling a Nissan to buy a rover or vice versa....but if he wants one, just buy one

[uninformed]

I've got it down to under an hour,how about you?. Pat

Thats a lot of failed head gaskets to get it down that quick. .....

[steane]

caught up with rangier rover after cliffhanger (anyone heard from him?)

Yeah I know Tony. Good bloke who likes his 120 Isuzu (although its often broken) and also has a soft spot for the 300Tdi. Have had some good sensible, unbiased chats with him about both.

And copped plenty of ribbing from him as well when the talk turns to comparing Land Rovers to Mitsubishis.

Wish he was around here more, he has plenty to say that is worth listening to.

Very smart chap.

[2stroke]

I've got it down to under an hour,how about you?. Pat
Did the big ends back in '09 when I was going through it before a Simpson trip, they were worn due to a score mark in the oil pump housing (timing case) caused by a burr on the inner pump rotor, which I assume was caused by someone dropping it at initial assembly. Did the headgasket last year before the Canning trip after listening to too many naysayers, shouted her a Turner head and gasket. Not a damned thing with the head or even the gasket mind you, sold the head to someone on here and it's probably on another Tdi making it's way towards another few 100 000km. I'll need a lot more practice before I can get it down to an hour.:)

[PAT303]

Who has never travelled aus? I've still got a lot to go, been simpson desert, all over Northern NSW, caught up with rangier rover after cliffhanger (anyone heard from him?) Most all of vic, king island, tasmania, fair bit from mataranka, litchfield, kakadont, northern coast around Darwin...plans are flinders island this summer, fraser island and QLD coast next winter, maybe cape York, just to cover yet another tiny speck of this great land



He can buy what he likes, there is a difference between thinking with emotion and thinking with the brain, both completely acceptable, but one should expect varied opinions:)

Pretty sure the other guys here that say keep the Nissan have also travelled a fait bit, need their resume too Pat? or do we just continue to be "keyboard warriors, beating our chests?":D

Either way, selling an old vehicle you know the history off, to buy one similar age you don't is not a logical move, whether it be selling a Nissan to buy a rover or vice versa....but if he wants one, just buy one

Mate I'm not getting into a ****ing contest,coming on here and giving BS advice like your diffs will break,the motor will blow up really doesn't answer peoples questions now does it. Pat

[PAT303]

Thats a lot of failed head gaskets to get it down that quick. .....

It was a joke Serg,I will do it at 500,000k's for real though. Pat

[rovercare]

Mate I'm not getting into a ****ing contest,coming on here and giving BS advice like your diffs will break,the motor will blow up really doesn't answer peoples questions now does it. Pat

You made the accusations about those that hadn't travelled? just trying to work out who it is? cause all the guys posting I know have travelled a fair bit;)

[rovercare]

Yeah I know Tony. Good bloke who likes his 120 Isuzu (although its often broken) and also has a soft spot for the 300Tdi. Have had some good sensible, unbiased chats with him about both.

And copped plenty of ribbing from him as well when the talk turns to comparing Land Rovers to Mitsubishis.

Wish he was around here more, he has plenty to say that is worth listening to.

Very smart chap.

Yea, top guy, most welcoming had a good few days on his farm, well worth the visit

[discowolf]

Again, thanks for some more replies. Maybe time to end it now. As I said on my last entry "So I'm thinking as has been suggested, get a vehicle for playing and keep GQ for the long distance travel. This will quite likely be the course of action,".
So just to repeat - I'm NOT planning on swapping GQ for Defender. The Def (or whatever) is because I want to get back to owning an LR product. It is for enjoyment, to fiddle with, but also to use.
As for turbos, I do not have a problem with turbo engines. I just will not turbo my current GQ. I am NOT unhappy with its performance nor its fuel consumption (which by the way is under 11 L/100 and towing caravan worst ever into huge headwind was about 14.5 L/100).
This post was for information and I appreciate the pitfalls as well as the enthusiasm for the good points. Just wanted good honest information to help in my decision making.
Cheers

[rick130]

That's good fuel economy for the GQ, the ex's GU TD42T ute only ever got 12.5l/100km when unladen, and it all went downhill when towing !

[PAT303]

You made the accusations about those that hadn't travelled? just trying to work out who it is? cause all the guys posting I know have travelled a fair bit;)

It's not you,relax.People seem happier on getting advice via PM's than over the open forum so I'll stick with that. Pat

[PAT303]

That's good fuel economy for the GQ, the ex's GU TD42T ute only ever got 12.5l/100km when unladen, and it all went downhill when towing !

Mine never got near 11 in the three years I had it. Pat

[two up]

Hi rovercare, yes silver top, no rust. Bought it when about 17yrs old from 1st owner. Old bloke who did about 9k per year. Didn't even have dust in it (unlike now). Car has now just reached 275k. religiously serviced, never scrimp on service or repairs when required. Not interested on blowing the engine. Pulls like a steam-train, but admit its slower uphill, even when not towing. But that doesn't bother me.






Why wouldn't you have a 2-300tdi? For me a 110 is highly desirable. Surely a 300 fully maintained (rebuilt motor etc if necessary) would be good for touring Oz? How's that fellow (timko?) from Finland travelling Mongolia on another post? So many seem to have great service from theirs. Am I missing something here as I peer through my rose coloured glasses?
The only way you will kill a td 42 is with silly fueling. As said fit a good turbo upgraded fuel pump, service it religiously and it will easily do 500k + .

[Craigb]

I hope this is useful to the original topic. After 20 plus years working for govt with regular travel to remote SA, camping out for a couple of weeks at a time and much travel over very rough tracks, I found myself looking for a private vehicle that could do similar stuff, tow car trailers from time to time and also a run around urban car all in one. From MQ patrols through all the models, odd landcruiser, hiluxes and one 200tdi I think it must have been - it was just a 'tdi to me back then, I had tried quite a few vehicles. As a new car the Landy was a lemon, but it was gearbox mainly I remember during warranty time. Most recently it was the 4 cylinder patrols that constantly drained my budget by falling apart literally at times, under warranty, but Nissan never came to the party on any of it. Like a chunk of the chassis falling off and going through a long range fuel tank on a 15000km car and Nissan say because there are old man emu shocks on it they wont cover it!! Or a bent front diff assemply at 22000km with a $5k bill attached to it - we weren't offroad racing! One V8 landcruiser had some pretty scary bills attached to it also under warranty. In the old days I would have just gone to a govt auction and bought a car that someone had run in for me but there was no way I was touching anything new.

To cut a long story short I ended up with a 93 200tdi.... and then a 96 300tdi defender 110 wagons! The defender choice was simply the combination of load area, towing capacity, fuel economy, reliability and simplicity (of a well sorted car) and ride/handling (compared to some other offerings - and after about a year I feel like I got it right. So rather compare one good car of one type with a bad car of another, i'm just saying that for the type of use for long distance travelling and towing my particular car has done a good job for me - so the 300tdi is not inherently a car that can't do what you are looking for based on my experience.

I was actually surprised at how well it does tow heavy loads, but Yes I wouldn't say no to a little bit more power. Has anyone used diesel gas injection? (ie. as opposed to a mate of a mate that you heard about once if you know what I mean!) Based on dyno data on their website it would appear to solve all my problems.

And just regarding comments on the best or the right car. I looked at quite a few and also Discos and came to the conclusion that it was going to be very difficult to find that well cared for car that someone has properly gone over, so I decided to go with a rusty 200tdi with low mileage and then just go over it from scratch and put a zillion hours or so into it to make it into what I couldn't find. Got it all the way from interstate and then as luck would have it a couple of weeks later a 96 300 with arb lockers etc came up for sale at my brothers neighbours house a few minutes from my place! I still had to spend lots of hours fixing bits of rust and sorting all sorts of things, but on the whole have been more pleased with it than I had been expecting from it. Mainly having all that space to load in that big sort of box being the back of the wagon is so much better than any Patrol I used.

I still have the 200 and with a bit more time on my hands these days I think I will still go over it and put it back on the market as what I found to be rare beast as a well sorted Defender - more for fun than profit. - but I don't think that will happen quick enough for you. Ive only driven the 200 a few times but I was hard pressed to pick the difference - I agree the condition is more important than if it is a 2 or 300 from my brief experience.

[PAT303]

Excellent post. Pat

[2stroke]

I hope this is useful to the original topic. After 20 plus years working for govt with regular travel to remote SA, camping out for a couple of weeks at a time and much travel over very rough tracks, I found myself looking for a private vehicle that could do similar stuff, tow car trailers from time to time and also a run around urban car all in one. From MQ patrols through all the models, odd landcruiser, hiluxes and one 200tdi I think it must have been - it was just a 'tdi to me back then, I had tried quite a few vehicles. As a new car the Landy was a lemon, but it was gearbox mainly I remember during warranty time. Most recently it was the 4 cylinder patrols that constantly drained my budget by falling apart literally at times, under warranty, but Nissan never came to the party on any of it. Like a chunk of the chassis falling off and going through a long range fuel tank on a 15000km car and Nissan say because there are old man emu shocks on it they wont cover it!! Or a bent front diff assemply at 22000km with a $5k bill attached to it - we weren't offroad racing! One V8 landcruiser had some pretty scary bills attached to it also under warranty. In the old days I would have just gone to a govt auction and bought a car that someone had run in for me but there was no way I was touching anything new.

To cut a long story short I ended up with a 93 200tdi.... and then a 96 300tdi defender 110 wagons! The defender choice was simply the combination of load area, towing capacity, fuel economy, reliability and simplicity (of a well sorted car) and ride/handling (compared to some other offerings - and after about a year I feel like I got it right. So rather compare one good car of one type with a bad car of another, i'm just saying that for the type of use for long distance travelling and towing my particular car has done a good job for me - so the 300tdi is not inherently a car that can't do what you are looking for based on my experience.

I was actually surprised at how well it does tow heavy loads, but Yes I wouldn't say no to a little bit more power. Has anyone used diesel gas injection? (ie. as opposed to a mate of a mate that you heard about once if you know what I mean!) Based on dyno data on their website it would appear to solve all my problems.

And just regarding comments on the best or the right car. I looked at quite a few and also Discos and came to the conclusion that it was going to be very difficult to find that well cared for car that someone has properly gone over, so I decided to go with a rusty 200tdi with low mileage and then just go over it from scratch and put a zillion hours or so into it to make it into what I couldn't find. Got it all the way from interstate and then as luck would have it a couple of weeks later a 96 300 with arb lockers etc came up for sale at my brothers neighbours house a few minutes from my place! I still had to spend lots of hours fixing bits of rust and sorting all sorts of things, but on the whole have been more pleased with it than I had been expecting from it. Mainly having all that space to load in that big sort of box being the back of the wagon is so much better than any Patrol I used.

I still have the 200 and with a bit more time on my hands these days I think I will still go over it and put it back on the market as what I found to be rare beast as a well sorted Defender - more for fun than profit. - but I don't think that will happen quick enough for you. Ive only driven the 200 a few times but I was hard pressed to pick the difference - I agree the condition is more important than if it is a 2 or 300 from my brief experience.

Nice post. So in terms of government cars I assume you'd have had Landcruisers? How'd they go, especially when the kms built up and how long did the factory suspension last?

[Craigb]

In that 'unit' there was one landcruiser ute that would be less than 3yo (have to be changed after that) with the V8 diesel and a custom built canopy on the back. To a point you got to order what you wanted and this guy was 'toyo head' and regionally based so I couldn't give much of a first hand account - or vouch for the objectivity of the comments I had from the guy who ran it! I think it was an injector problem that was a non-warranty expensive repair. I drove it a few times and you gotta love the low down torque of that 8, but as much as he raved about how good the economy was it drank a lot more than my Nissan without having the numbers on that. As far as suspension, I would describe the canopy as 'designed by a committee' so it had every whistle and bell and therefore weighed heaps. The leaf spring suspension had to be upgraded and be legally certified to carry it and still sat down in the arse. And I never heard of anything falling off the chassis or bending, so given the areas that went I would say they are pretty tough compared to the Nissan. If I had stayed I would have been a little torn with the next vehicle mainly because my Nissan with canopy was on a coil sprung rear, which gave fantastic clearance and wheel travel, and my light canopy plus long range tanks of something like 220l it had fantastic range. Working in places like the Flinders on back tracks, or 4wd courses where we had all the cars out at once, nothing could stop that coil sprung ute when a hilux or landcruiser would be lifting wheels and slipping due to wheel travel or Nissan wagon dragging its body on the ground. Nothing worse than stacking rocks etc late in the day stuck in some creek bed with diagonal wheels off the ground - set up camp, crack a beer and shift it in the morning! Just a shame they can't build a Nissan that stays in one piece for more than 20k km! Not like the old days - esp GQ. And our cars can't run for more than 60k km so not much of a guage - often the feel like you have just run them in for someone!
So having said all that I feel pretty good about my Landy, good suspension travel, low overhang, good fuel range (have 120l tank but uses a lot less fuel) and it hasn't fallen apart........ and you get used to drafts and leaks!

[PAT303]

Nice post. So in terms of government cars I assume you'd have had Landcruisers? How'd they go, especially when the kms built up and how long did the factory suspension last?

Both my work utes were on the bump stops withing months with bugger all on them,our troopy lasted a fortnight carrying six blokes in it,the suspension is nothing short of pathetic on Toyota's,for some reason every now and again they wouldn't start,the motors would spin over but no fire,I worked at Jaguar mine outside Wiluna and they fit FTE's from rusted hulks after the V8's crap out,lots of sites are using Isuzu/Holden utes,VW's etc,the Rangers are giving trouble,like Prado's/Hilux's they have the smart alternators that don't charge for long enough so leave the battery dead after driving at 40k's/hr around site,thats dumb as Ford made a model that was for mine site compliance. Pat

[djam1]

I know the Police in the Western Deserts found that the windows fell out of the Troopies at around 30000 Km due to the body cracking up.
Nissans were much worse with body cracks.

Land Rovers are not perfect but there are parts of them that last better than the opposition.

[2stroke]

Land Rovers are not perfect but there are parts of them that last better than the opposition.

Something tells me that's a quote I'll be using sometime.:D

[jx2mad]

When I had my 300tdi I had diesel gas fitted. What a difference! Smooth off the mark with no turbo lag. It brought the fuel down to 8-9 l/100k. Excellent top speed...not sure what it would do but found myself cruising up the highway at 120k/h and had to back off. Also towed better. Jim :D:D:o

[PAT303]

I know the Police in the Western Deserts found that the windows fell out of the Troopies at around 30000 Km due to the body cracking up.
Nissans were much worse with body cracks.

Land Rovers are not perfect but there are parts of them that last better than the opposition.

You'll be accused of having Land Rover blinkers on if you keep posting information on real world problems other makes of vehicles have,just like me :angel:. Pat

[Craigb]

Fantastic! Dyno figures don't lie and I thought the LPG would have that sort of effect but still good to hear it first hand. A job for the future!

[two up]

Just watch your egt, a friend of mine had it fitted to his puma. It increased his performance quite markedly but after fitting an egt guage he found his pre turbo temps were close to 900c .

[PAT303]

I've been running diesel gas for 5 years on my Tdi and if set correctly,not over fueling the egt's are the same. Pat

[Craigb]

OK - so I worked out egt is exhaust gas temp, but preturbo do you mean before the turbo inlet - but then it goes through the intercooler to get that denser air? What is the issue, lets say assuming it is not set correctly, - melting of turbo?

I appreciate the warning/caution - just don't know what the problem of that is.

[isuzurover]

OK - so I worked out egt is exhaust gas temp, but preturbo do you mean before the turbo inlet - but then it goes through the intercooler to get that denser air? What is the issue, lets say assuming it is not set correctly, - melting of turbo?

I appreciate the warning/caution - just don't know what the problem of that is.

egt is measured properly in the exhaust manifold between the engine and turbo. Aluminium melts at 650 oC. 900 degree intake air would melt your intercooler!

[two up]

Some of the people fitting these systems either don't know how to do it properly or to impress the client turn it up too high which can lead to high egts if the fuelling is not set correctly. The fellow I'm referring to had it dynoed after fitting and with no adjustments to boost or anything else gained 35kw and over 100nm, it wasn't till he fitted some gauges that he realised he had a problem. Properly tuned brought it down a fair bit.

[PAT303]

^^^thats the reason it has a bad name,a little bit of LPG gives the motor a lift so allot should really produce the beans!!,until you melt a piston. Pat