What vehicle....

[V8Ian]

Manufactured by Mercedes-Benz used a proprietary motor and what motor was it?

[JDNSW]

What two English vehicles of the late 1930s, each one of the most popular of their type (but very different to each other), used engines with metric threads, despite these engines being built in England by the manufacturer?

John

[jerryd]

Manufactured by Mercedes-Benz used a proprietary motor and what motor was it?

This one ?? :cool:

[V8Ian]

This one ?? :cool:

The one I had in mind was a bit more mundane Jerry. :D

[V8Ian]

What two English vehicles of the late 1930s, each one of the most popular of their type (but very different to each other), used engines with metric threads, despite these engines being built in England by the manufacturer?

John
Would I be correct in thinking they were of French or German origin and one is a motorcycle, John?

[1999td5]

Ian

Are you thinking of the 1.5 litre motor in the A class merc??

[JDNSW]

Would I be correct in thinking they were of French or German origin and one is a motorcycle, John?

Neither was a motor cycle, and while both engines have French ancestry, one only obliquely, both engines were designed by and built in England by the company who built the vehicle. (Strictly one was an associated company building the engine, but same English owner) Both vehicle designs were purely English, although one was built in significant numbers (a slightly later model) in several other countries including Australia, as were the engines.

John

[V8Ian]

Ian

Are you thinking of the 1.5 litre motor in the A class merc??
That wasn't the one I was thinking but I'm in no position to dispute your claim.

[jerryd]

What two English vehicles of the late 1930s, each one of the most popular of their type (but very different to each other), used engines with metric threads, despite these engines being built in England by the manufacturer?

John


I thought originally the Austin 7 but possibly too early, However British Morris and MG engines from 1923 to 1955 were built using metric threads but with bolt heads and nuts dimensioned for Whitworth spanners and sockets.[6] The background for this was that the engines were produced using machine tools of a previously French-owned company that was set up for metric production; for the average British motorist to be able to service his car, the bolt heads had to fit imperial-sized spanners.

Do I get a prize if I'm correct John ;)

[JDNSW]

I thought originally the Austin 7 but possibly too early, However British Morris and MG engines from 1923 to 1955 were built using metric threads but with bolt heads and nuts dimensioned for Whitworth spanners and sockets.[6] The background for this was that the engines were produced using machine tools of a previously French-owned company that was set up for metric production; for the average British motorist to be able to service his car, the bolt heads had to fit imperial-sized spanners.

Do I get a prize if I'm correct John ;)

Got one of them. Morris was buying engines from Continental in the USA from 1913 to 1919, but import restrictions meant this was no longer feasible, besides which, Continental stopped making that model. Morris tried to go back to their previous supplier, White and Poppe, but they had just been bought by Dennis.

Meanwhile, in 1914 Hotchkiss had hastily moved a factory from eastern France to Coventry, but the demand for machine guns had dropped abruptly in 1918. Hotchkiss produced an engine for Morris bearing a suspicious similarity to the Continental engine, except, since their machinery was all metric, so were all the threads. By the mid twenties, with Morris virtually their only customer, Morris bought the UK branch of the company.

One down - what was the other one?

John

[1999td5]

I would have said the Morris and Austin?? most popular. But I don't know if they used metric threads like you asked.

the introduction of the v block motors was also in the 1930's v8 v12. not sure who made them thu??

tell me more.

[JDNSW]

No, not Austin. Further clues.

Production of the engines in Australia was mainly by GMH, with some made by Tasmanian Railway workshops.

John

[V8Ian]

Where's Mick when we need him?

[JDNSW]

Further clue - the engine in question is a four cylinder one, developing between 120 and 145hp depending on model.

John

[Bigbjorn]

What two English vehicles of the late 1930s, each one of the most popular of their type (but very different to each other), used engines with metric threads, despite these engines being built in England by the manufacturer?

John

Morris and MG. Engine originally from Hotchkiss.

[jerryd]

Morris and MG. Engine originally from Hotchkiss.

Already posted on previous page

[Bigbjorn]

Further clue - the engine in question is a four cylinder one, developing between 120 and 145hp depending on model.

John

de Haviland Gypsy perhaps. These were made by GM-H.

[incisor]

gypsy major?

[Redback]

Hillman/Humber??

[Pedro_The_Swift]

I once rode in a Humber Super Snipe,, very swish!:cool:

[V8Ian]

I once rode in a Humber Super Snipe,, very swish!:cool:

I once owned a Super Snipe, one of the last made.

[jerryd]

I was originally thinking Rolls Royce / Merlin / Packard if you are allowing aircraft engines :confused:

[JDNSW]

de Haviland Gypsy perhaps. These were made by GM-H.

Bingo!

The Most successful British light aircraft in the 1920s and thirties was the De Havilland Moth. A problem though when they started making them was finding a suitable engine - by 1920, all the modern engines were far bigger than needed, and moreover tended to have 'military' running costs. The problem was solved for De Havilland by the Air Disposals Company (Airdisco), which had got hold of a large number of Renault air cooled V8 engines, that were surplus to requirements. They converted them to four cylinder engines using a new crankcase.

The Moth was so successful that by the late twenties, the end of the engine supply was in sight, so De Havilland hired Airdisco's chief designer (Frank Halford) to design a new engine based on the Airdisco engine, and with as many common parts as possible while making improvements. This was the DH Gypsy engine. Slightly enlarged and inverted it became the Gypsy Major, fitted to many DH aeroplanes in the 1930s, including the DH82A Tiger Moth, which was used in very large numbers by the RAF and the Empire Training Scheme during WW2. Over ten thousand of these engines were made in Australia, as were just over a thousand DH82As.

Because of the requirement for parts commonality with the existing Renault conversions, metric threads were used.

John

[JDNSW]

I was originally thinking Rolls Royce / Merlin / Packard if you are allowing aircraft engines :confused:
They use Imperial threads.

John

[Bigbjorn]

They use Imperial threads.

John

mostly BSF with some BA. Packard and Continental continued to use the British threads when they made Merlins in the USA. Easier to get US tool makers to make BS cutting tools than change thousands of drawings and also create a maintenance nightmare with mixed engines on an aircraft.

Interestingly Rolls Royce accounting for numbers of Merlins made and by whom does not include Australia. Apparently our efforts were considered an assembly operation as the major components were not made here. They also state that Australian engines were produced by the James N. Kirby organisation. CAC and GAF don't get mentioned. James Kirby was apparently a close personal friend of Lord Hives, Chairman of Rolls Royce.

[JDNSW]

New Question:_

What car in 1927 was the first front wheel drive car to use CV joints, and what type of CV joint?

(Hint, there is a Landrover connection)

John

[V8Ian]

New Question:_

What car in 1927 was the first front wheel drive car to use CV joints, and what type of CV joint?

(Hint, there is a Landrover connection)

John

Citroen.

[JDNSW]

Citroen.

No.

The Traction Avant was 1934.

John

[jerryd]

Citroen.

Citroen didn't make aircraft ;) :wasntme:

[jerryd]

Possibly one of these

[Disco_Fever]

New Question:_

What car in 1927 was the first front wheel drive car to use CV joints, and what type of CV joint?

(Hint, there is a Landrover connection)

John

Think I know this one... the 1927 Tracta.

It featured cv joints designed by Jean-Albert Gregoire, and similar cv joints were used in the first of the Landies, as well as other vehicles.

Sent from my GT-I9305T using AULRO mobile app

[jerryd]

^^ You're probably right, I've just been reading about Jean A. Gregoire and the Tracta car. I didn't know the connection until now although I've read about his Le Mans adventures before.

Jean A. Gregoire (http://www.uniquecarsandparts.com.au/race_drivers_jean_gregoire.htm)

[V8Ian]

No.

The Traction Avant was 1934.

John
I wasn't confident.

[V8Ian]

Citroen didn't make aircraft ;) :wasntme:

A Standard Flying Eight then. :p

[JDNSW]

Think I know this one... the 1927 Tracta.

It featured cv joints designed by Jean-Albert Gregoire, and similar cv joints were used in the first of the Landies, as well as other vehicles.

Sent from my GT-I9305T using AULRO mobile app

Bingo again.

I have in front of me the autobiography, "Best Wheel Forward" J.A.Gregoire, London 1954, translated by Charles Meid.

He seems to have been a remarkable man. The Tracta joint saw widespread use in Germany in the 1930s and in Britain and USA during WW2. It was largely superseded by the Weiss CV joint from the 1950s, as production techniques for that type made it cheaper (the Tracta joint needs no special tooling and does not demand high precision manufacture - the Weiss joint demands very accurate manufacture and is only cost effective with special purpose designed and built machines). Interestingly, although the first Citroen Traction Avant cars used Tracta joints, after the first couple of years they changed to double Cardan joints, and retained these until the CX in 1975, again probably as these were now cheaper, although the transverse engine may have meant there was not room for the double Cardan.

Gregoire lost most of his royalties from Germany as the major user (DKW) had friends in the National Socialist Government. Trying to negotiate a deal with Bendix in the USA while in occupied France, he was swindled. His royalty agreement in the UK (also Bendix) was basically torn up (on the excuse that the quantities were vastly greater than envisaged), although after protests in 1947 he eventually got a significant payment.

There is an Australian connection - the Hartnett car, which started production after Hartnett was sacked by GM for refusing a transfer to Detroit, was a Gregoire design. There is also a Landrover connection - this car failed after the body panel contractor (PMC) abrogated the deal to press body panels.

John