What Impact socket for D4 wheel nuts?

[Datt]

Hi all,

I have 2 sets of rims for my D4 and am now set up for using my new impact air gun for quicker change over.

What size and type of impact socket should I be using?

I bought a 22mm but it doesn't fit far enough onto the tapered nut cover that I'm confident to use it.

Thanks in advance.

Matt.

[Plane Fixer]

My own personal and professional opinion I would NEVER use inpact tools for wheel nuts...EVER!!!!
To spin them on or off, no problem but then use a torque wrench set at the proper setting to finally torque them, else there is a considerable risk of breaking studs.
I too have a second set of wheels and take the time to use proper stands to safety, and then as each wheel is changed over have a good look around and check visually the brake wear. I also clean the area as necessary.
An ordinary single hex 22mm socket is what I use.

[BMKal]

X 2

If a tyre fitter ever used an impact socket / air impact gun to do up the wheel nuts on a vehicle of mine, he'd likely get a smack under the ear. ;)

[Bundalene]

I always crack and again final tighten wheel nuts by hand. I find rattle guns damage / dent the stainless caps on the wheel nuts.





Erich

[AGRO]

Impact Air Gun and 12 point sockets for LR wheels nuts is inviting the swollen nuts syndrome.

The stainless steel sheaf over the nut is easily deformed to the point where a socket cannot be placed over the wheel nut.

I've had to replace at least half of my nuts after one unsupervised event where a set of new tyres was installed. I had to tap the socket onto the most of the wheel nuts and use an extension bar to crack the wheel nut.

Buy a good 3/4" bar and a couple 3/4" drive 22mm sockets AND get a good torque wrench to tighten the nuts. Body weight is not a good measure.

Good luck

[Datt]

Thanks for comments so far. All good advice.

I am interested to know what the dealer and LR specialists workshops do for their procedures, no that I'm questioning any of your opinions, just interested.

Matt.

[sheerluck]

Thanks for comments so far. All good advice.

I am interested to know what the dealer and LR specialists workshops do for their procedures, no that I'm questioning any of your opinions, just interested.

Matt.

The dealers and LR specialists will have different priorities to you, the owner. They will be much more interested in speed and the here and now, than minimising damage than may not be evident until some time in the future.

[ADMIRAL]

Hi Matt,

Seems I am the odd one out, but here is what I do. I find that taking wheel nuts off without a bar a meter long, is bloody hard work. On the side of the road, even more inconvenient. I use a battery powered impact wrench with a deep 22mm socket and a torque bar. Even the cheap electric wrenches with a new battery, will develop too much torque for wheel nuts. Some as much as the air operated stuff. Most are not adjustable, unlike the air operated options.
I think commonsense prevails. Impact wrenches are used universally by race , rally teams, and workshops. It's the nut on the other end that's the issue, and that's not the wheel nut.
You will see air impact wrenches used in top end workshops, but they don't use them for the final nut tension. A torque wrench is used for that.
Give yourself a break, just do it sensibly

[Geedublya]

I swap out my wheels at least monthly.
To save my wheel nuts from impact driver damage I swapped them out for solid ones I bought on eBay. Now I use a 6 sided 22mm impact socket to undo and tighten them. I tighten using a lower setting and use a torque wrench for the final tighten to spec. The Landrover nuts are easily damaged and can become swollen or have the caps come of. After seeing the damage done by previous owners (and workshops) to both my D2 and D3 nuts I decided to buy the solid replacements for the D3 and kept them when I got the D4.
On a side note I had the car serviced the other day and found on it's return that the wheel nuts where way overtight (my torque wrench goes up to 175nm and some were above that).

[WhiteD3]

X2.



An ordinary single hex 22mm socket is what I use.

Years ago I got caught out on a track with a flat, broke the factory brace trying to get the nuts off and hours later managed (with a lot of help) to get the wheel changed. Since then I carry a 300mm socket wrench, 22mm socket and 600mm hollow bar for extra leverage (if required to get nuts off).

I always stress to the tyre shops not to use a rattle gun but I don't trust them.

[PhilipA]

Funny, I find my good old rattle gun does a great job with a 6 point socket on my D2.
One tap at the end of tightening is always around 105NM, which I always check with a torsion wrench.
The key is to only tighten to one tap , not keep it banging away for 2 minutes.
I have never had a loose wheel nut or over tight wheel nut in 20 years, although a specialist in Sydney who may remain nameless forgot to tighten both rears when fitting a maxi drive. I think that it is far more likely with a careless tradesman than with an owner who cares.

" it's not the tool , but the tool holding the tool" ( hey I hope that is a new quote!)
Regards Philip A

[winaje]

My tyre fitter uses a 22mm deep impact socket, gives me the rattle gun on the lightest setting, and I spin the nuts on, then take my 50-250NM Norbar torque wrench and do them up to 140NM. This is in a non LR dealership workshop, he tells his boss that he has a long standing ultra pedantic customer who won't take his vehicle anywhere else or let anyone else work on it, even though he has tried to get rid of me, lol. I tend to go in very early in the morning before the "official" start to the day...

[Kandy]

What is LR spec for the D4 wheel nuts, is it 140nm ? thanks.

[BMKal]

What is LR spec for the D4 wheel nuts, is it 140nm ? thanks.

Yes.

See attached from the workshop manual (wheel nuts at bottom of table).

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/01/402.jpg

[ATH]

I had just this problem with my Deafener, nuts done up so tight I bent the original wrench trying to undo them. Went back to the tyre place and showed them the damaged nuts caused by the so called "fitter" just racing around the nuts not even letting the thing stop before trying to jam it on resulting in several being ruined.
Shop bought replacement nuts and the fitter went looking for another job. His attitude was "it's only an ****** Land Rover".... and it's not the only place I've met that attitude.
Now I've got a sliding 3/4" bar plus a deep rattle gun socket for anything a bit tight but where I go for tyres now always use a torque wrench to tighten them.
But saying that, I took my spare wheel cover off after a trip and found just 2 nuts holding the wheel on! I complained and they tidied the thread up and replaced the missing nut. The "fitter" had not bothered telling anyone he'd crossed the thread somehow and just left the nut off. :mad:
I don't know if he works for them now.
AlanH.

[BMKal]

I'm lucky - the place I go to for tyres in Boulder is only a very small business - basically a one man band, and his wife goes in to help out with paperwork / cleaning etc.

The owner IS the tyre fitter. Knows his stuff, doesn't mind me being in the workshop or even helping out when he's working on my car, and does everything as it should be done. With the type of service that he provides, I'm not interested in looking at any of the bigger places, even if I could possibly save a couple of dollars. ;)

[letherm]

I'm lucky - the place I go to for tyres in Boulder is only a very small business - basically a one man band, and his wife goes in to help out with paperwork / cleaning etc.

The owner IS the tyre fitter. Knows his stuff, doesn't mind me being in the workshop or even helping out when he's working on my car, and does everything as it should be done. With the type of service that he provides, I'm not interested in looking at any of the bigger places, even if I could possibly save a couple of dollars. ;)

You can't put a price on that sort of service. Definitely worth the dollars.

Martin

[Tombie]

When it comes to my vehicle - I - am the tyre fitter!

I wander in to the local tyre shop, hoist the vehicle and remove, change, balance and refit my own tyres...

No-one to blame but me if it goes bad...

Saves me a fair bit as well..

[Kandy]

Yes.

See attached from the workshop manual (wheel nuts at bottom of table).

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/01/402.jpg

Thanks, good info.
The glove box manual states 133Nm (which im finally getting around to read more thoroughly), my old torque wrench doesnt have Nm so have to convert, i.e. 98.1 ft/lbs.
Took "Pearl" off for a complimentary health check on wednesday (shes on 10000k) so asked when booking for a 5 wheel rotation etc, comm. breakdown, they did 4 tyre but a good wheel balance and alignment, I tow a bit, so redid the rotation today as per coopers site and what Ive been doing for yonks I numbered all tyres prior with a white sidewall pen so know which has gone where. I set my torque wrench on 99 ft/lbs = 134. something, I checked before loosening nuts what the service guys had done, they were about that.
So, all finished, lovely clean wheels etc. off for a spin, 140k down a local highway smooth as silk, job done.:D

[101RRS]

When it comes to my vehicle - I - am the tyre fitter!

I wander in to the local tyre shop, hoist the vehicle and remove, change, balance and refit my own tyres...

No-one to blame but me if it goes bad...

Saves me a fair bit as well..


Yes but the reality is that most of us are not in the position to do that - in fact due to OH&S we cannot even get into the workshop to ensure the tyre fitters follow your instructions on the use of rattle guns etc.

Garry

[Tombie]

That's actually false. No where in WH&S does it state people can not be escorted into a workshop.

That's just a company policy.

[101RRS]

If you say so.

[Tombie]

Implementation of WH&S is about managing recognised risk. Once a risk is identified it must be mitigated.

Easier for a WS to say "no entry" than other methods.. also a good way to prevent people watching their work..

[shanegtr]

Yes but the reality is that most of us are not in the position to do that - in fact due to OH&S we cannot even get into the workshop to ensure the tyre fitters follow your instructions on the use of rattle guns etc.

Garry

Probably more to do with insurance rather than OH&S

[BMKal]

Probably more to do with insurance rather than OH&S

I'd say "locality" may also have a lot to do with it. Far more likely to be welcome into a workshop somewhere like Tom Price, Whyalla, Kalgoorlie etc than in a capital city for what I would think are some pretty obvious reasons. ;)

There are many businesses in Kalgoorlie where I have always been welcome to enter the workshop areas, usually escorted but sometimes not (depending on whether they know me). Ranges from auto related businesses to steel supply warehouses / machine shops and many others. I doubt very much whether I would be allowed to enter the same type of workshops etc in most cases in or close to any of our capital cities .................. and I can fully understand why.

Having said that - there are two Land Rover specialists in Perth where I have always been made welcome inside their workshop areas, including to assist on work on my own vehicles on the odd occasion. My son (who is a diesel fitter employed in underground mining) has also been welcomed into one of these workshops on many occasions when he has had both his previous (my old) D2 and his current VW Amarok in there for work.

A good start, if you want to be allowed access to someone else's workshop - is to not rock up in shorts, singlet and thongs.https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/01/377.jpg (http://www.easyfreesmileys.com/facebook-smileys.html)

[Tombie]

A good start, if you want to be allowed access to someone else's workshop - is to not rock up in shorts, singlet and thongs.https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/01/377.jpg (http://www.easyfreesmileys.com/facebook-smileys.html)


How does Andy get on in his Pink Tutu and Pumps?

[BMKal]

How does Andy get on in his Pink Tutu and Pumps?

The only workshop he's allowed in is the Shire Council's. ;)

[Kandy]

C'mon fellas, the thread is about D4 wheel nuts and at least something associated with it, not nuts about WH&S/OH&S.

[Tombie]

C'mon fellas, the thread is about D4 wheel nuts and at least something associated with it, not nuts about WH&S/OH&S.



Considering it was all said, done and answered by post #9 I doubt a little bit of banter around being able to enter a workshop and see how they do it - with a quick Segway into that topic is hardly an issue..

If you don't like a friendly chat just buy a workshop manual and be done with it - it's all in there - and no banter.

[Kandy]

Yeh, apologies, must have been the afternoon heat grumps, Im all for friendly banter, wouldnt mind a workshop manual though.Cheers:angel:

[BMKal]

Yeh, apologies, must have been the afternoon heat grumps, Im all for friendly banter, wouldnt mind a workshop manual though.Cheers:angel:

You can buy the workshop manual in electronic format from Dave's shop. This way, you are supporting Dave and this site. See link below.

https://www.davesitshop.com/emporium/discovery-4-2009-to-2012-manuals.html

It's a bit of a large, bulky manual and takes you a while to find your way around in it, but everything you are likely to need is there if you look hard enough. I refer to mine quite often. You can also look up part numbers etc on this site ...............

Lrcat (http://new.lrcat.com/)

[Kandy]

Ordered, thank you.

[Bradmc]

Do you guys put any lubricant on the wheel nuts if you find them dry before putting them back on?

If so, what type/brand do you use?

Thanks

[BMKal]

Do you guys put any lubricant on the wheel nuts if you find them dry before putting them back on?

If so, what type/brand do you use?

Thanks

Yep - I use Loctite nickel anti-seize 771. Not the cheapest option out there, but one of the best available. I have had a bottle of it in my shed for ages, and use it on just about everything I work on. ;)