Tesla cars

[Jojo]

A few weeks ago, when I parked the Disco at the airport to pick up my homecoming youngsters, an interesting stunning looking vehicle pulled up behind me. It turned out to be a Tesla Model S (http://www.teslamotors.com/models)... I soon felt a bit out of place with my old fashioned, oil leaking truck :p. Should have spoken to the driver, but, as usual at airports, I was in a rush. Whilst I do like my Landies, I could not quite forget about the Tesla and finally decided to get some information about them. From what is written on the 'net, things look decidedly positive. Whilst I am in general not very interested in brand new vehicles, the Tesla definitely has a few good points to its merits, not only environmentally or technologically. I have so far always dismissed electric vehicles as toys or curiosity stuff without much practical value.
In our neck of the woods, so called zero-emission vehicles are highly subsidised, with reduced road tax and other benefits. You will even get a one off bonus (from the tax office!!!) when buying such a car. In addition to all this, you won't have to worry about road toll and congestion charges, as zero-emission vehicles are exempt from those fees.
As I am going to install solar panel on my property that will generate an annual excess in electricity produced, I will have access to cheap power. In addition to this, Tesla is setting up strategically placed charging stations that may be accessed free of charge. This means, I could run the car quite cheaply, at least when it comes to energy consumption.

I still am not completely convinced, but my previous rejection of these vehicles is starting to wither. One of my main concerns is the question of battery life expectancy and what will happen when the battery will need replacement. Does anyone of you have some decent information on this issue?
Tesla is going to release another model soon, called the Model X (http://www.teslamotors.com/modelx), which will, among other things, feature four wheel drive. This looks even more interesting to me, given the location of our residential home.

I am now interested in hearing your opinion, experiences, knowledge and are happy to take advice from anyone who has been traveling on this road already. Of course these cars are not cheap in any way, but the tax benefits and the virtually no-fuel-cost option make up for a fair bit of it, I reckon. Furthermore, I could probably buy it as a company car, giving me even more tax benefits.
Your opinion, gentlemen!!!
Cheers

[Homestar]

Very interesting. With our high electricity price, it wouldn't offer too many benefits to us if I had to pay to charge it every night. Just looking at their charging info page - Tesla Charging | Tesla Motors (http://www.teslamotors.com/charging#/installation)
Based on the KM that SWMBO drives to work and back, and inputting the price we pay for Electricity, it shows me it will cost $7 a day to charge it. Current fuel usage is $11 a day, so with a $4 a day saving - not as large as I thought it would be.

It shows there that the national average price for electricity in the US is $0.12 per KWh - I'd love to see those prices here - it's basically a third cheaper over there to charge it.

That's not the only reason I'd look at one though, I love how far the technology has come, but I'm still unsure how long the batteries would last and what they would cost to replace.

I think they are getting very close, but I don't think they will become mainstream until the next leap in battery technology.

[rovercare]

Based on the KM that SWMBO drives to work and back, and inputting the price we pay for Electricity, it shows me it will cost $7 a day to charge it. Current fuel usage is $11 a day, so with a $4 a day saving - not as large as I thought it would be.

It shows there that the national average price for electricity in the US is $0.12 per KWh - I'd love to see those prices here - it's basically a third cheaper over there to charge it.

.

The yanks I work with also tell me they pay like $3 Gallon, so the price of fuel is a lot cheaper, so the savings are similar to here as far as a percentage

[Homestar]

Yeah, but I bet they pay a lot less for the vehicle to begin with too.

[DBT]

I subscribed to an online university physics lecture series from UC Berkeley a couple years ago. They studied the Tesla in quite some detail.

Their findings were that financial and environmental costs of electric vehicles were no less, when looking at whole of life economics. After 4-5 years, you are up for battery pack replacement. Think of the cost of all the fossil fuel you would have used in a regular car in that time and you will not be far off the budget for a new battery pack. Think waste disposal / reprocessing of the old pack, to help see the full picture.

The point of the study was energy cost / conservation / management. The cost of fuelling an electric car is not in the charging (which (like wind resistance in most physics thought experiments) can be considered a negligible component), the cost is in the energy storage infrastructure. This is where both the financial and environmental cost lies.

It's all very obvious in retrospect, but the point was hammered in, due to Tesla's big marketing push around "zero running cost" of their electric cars at the time.

It all comes down to battery technology. We still have a ways to go before zero emission really is just that.

Regardless, they are very cool cars. If I had rooftop solar and a company car option (with hand-back after 4 years), I would seriously consider one as well. :)

[rovercare]

Yeah, but I bet they pay a lot less for the vehicle to begin with too.

They pay a lot less for everything, I never realized the cost of living was so bad in aus compared to a lot of western countries till I worked with people from around the globe

[Redback]

The minimum wage is a lot less also.

Baz.

[Rextheute]

I'm intrigued by them - and a more affordable version will be released early next year .
have a look here for 'up to the minute discussion ' !

For “tesla” - Search - Whirlpool Forums (http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum/?action=search&f=133&q=tesla)


Yes , I am a nerd !
But the technology is awesome - On the 'battery won't last 5 years ' aspect , I see an awful lot of hybrid camry and prius being used as cabs with many many kilometres on them . More than I will do in ten years !
Although my vehicles would have close to a million kms on them as a collective number .
No ,not a 4wd , can't tow with it . But as a vehicle perfect to do the other jobs required .
Or you could buy a camry ....no soul , no passion or character tho - does the job without fuss.

[superquag]

Food for thought.... the previous models had 6,831 individual '18650' lithium cells... 11 modules of 9 groups (69 paralleled) in series... Around 7,700 for latest models.

ONE total failure can take out a battery pack, so I read some years ago when Tesla were having fun with cars being allowed to run to a too-low battery state. - Standby charge current was.... significant..:o

For the mathematically interested.... http://www.teslamotors.com/it_IT/forum/forums/technical-battery-discussion

and here... http://insideevs.com/2-billion-lithium-ion-battery-cells-deployment-graph/

And another Forum here... about 1/3rd down is some 'interesting' comments regarding Apple and their laptops-battery life... how they test and get the life they claim.

http://www.reddit.com/r/teslamotors/comments/29mxnz/the_progression_of_the_18650_battery/

[Jojo]

I managed to escape from my job a bit earlier today and went straight to the Tesla showroom, which is basically just down the road as I discovered. So far, it is the only one in our country, so the early escape was worthwhile.
It was interesting to see the vehicles in the flesh, being able to check them out completely. As already mentioned, Tesla is developing another model in a lower price bracket as well.
With regard to the batteries, the assistant explained that there is an 8-years warranty on the battery pack, meaning you won't have to worry for several years to come. By then, the prices for the batteries should have come down a fair bit, for a variety of reasons. So far, there are no long-term experiences as these cars are on the road only for two years or so, but some of them have covered already about 150k kms, with only a marginal reduction in battery capacity. I was assured the electrics are not made by Lucas ;)
What I didn't know, the vehicle is mostly made of aluminum, qualifying the Tesla to make a good companion to the Land Rovers in the garage at home :)

A drawback I found was the lack of a proper spare wheel, but this seems to be ubiquitous on modern cars. Anyway...
I will have my accountant to make some calculations if purchasing such a vehicle will be sensible from an economical point of view.

[isuzurover]

I managed to escape from my job a bit earlier today and went straight to the Tesla showroom, which is basically just down the road as I discovered. So far, it is the only one in our country, so the early escape was worthwhile.
It was interesting to see the vehicles in the flesh, being able to check them out completely. As already mentioned, Tesla is developing another model in a lower price bracket as well.
With regard to the batteries, the assistant explained that there is an 8-years warranty on the battery pack, meaning you won't have to worry for several years to come. By then, the prices for the batteries should have come down a fair bit, for a variety of reasons. So far, there are no long-term experiences as these cars are on the road only for two years or so, but some of them have covered already about 150k kms, with only a marginal reduction in battery capacity. I was assured the electrics are not made by Lucas ;)
What I didn't know, the vehicle is mostly made of aluminum, qualifying the Tesla to make a good companion to the Land Rovers in the garage at home :)

A drawback I found was the lack of a proper spare wheel, but this seems to be ubiquitous on modern cars. Anyway...
I will have my accountant to make some calculations if purchasing such a vehicle will be sensible from an economical point of view.

Just read up first on people bricking the batteries (not covered by warranty). Don't ever park the vehicle for long with a flat/low battery.

[loanrangie]

Just found out on Tuesday that we (work ) have the contract for importing for Tesla Australia :).

[DiscoMick]

Rooftop solar is sounding better every day.
One day every house, office and factory will be solar powered, vehicles will be electric and smog will have disappeared. Bring it on.


The Tesla X looks promising.
http://www.teslamotors.com/en_AU/modelx

[rovercare]

Rooftop solar is sounding better every day.
One day every house, office and factory will be solar powered, vehicles will be electric and smog will have disappeared. Bring it on.


The Tesla X looks promising.
Model X | Tesla Motors (http://www.teslamotors.com/en_AU/modelx)

You still kidding yourself with ideals?

It may be green any many, many years to come, but it wont be rooftop solar:D

[MBZ460]

My brother has a Tesla Roadster and loves it.
Faster than pretty much everything in acceleration (not so much top speed) including "super" cars.
And being in California there are plenty of charging stations and he even takes it on long trips, like Vegas, Seattle, where there are hotels along the way who provide free charging as incentives to stay.
Also by the time he will need to look at a new battery pack (which is mostly then recycled, not dumped) the battery tech has got better so he is expecting a significant increase in performance, mostly due to lighter cells.
The family car is a Chevy Volt.

[Homestar]

Rooftop solar is sounding better every day.
One day every house, office and factory will be solar powered, vehicles will be electric and smog will have disappeared. Bring it on.


The Tesla X looks promising.
Model X | Tesla Motors (http://www.teslamotors.com/en_AU/modelx)

Like the car we're discussing, until battery tech makes a quantum leap, it is just a pipe dream.

[AndyG]

Rooftop solar is sounding better every day.
One day every house, office and factory will be solar powered, vehicles will be electric and smog will have disappeared. Bring it on.


The Tesla X looks promising.
Model X | Tesla Motors (http://www.teslamotors.com/en_AU/modelx)

And LR will be leaking Acid, not oil:wasntme:

If you look at the whole manufacturing chain, especially with the exotic minerals/rare earths i am not sure how green the current generation is, but it is the future, unless hydrogen gets a sudden kick along.

[nat_89]

I have to say love the look of the Model S just a bloody gorgeous car soo awesome love the look!! There may be some teething issues but hopefully they sort it out and go good looks great.

[Jojo]

They have booked me for a test drive. Unfortunately, due to work commitments, it won't be before next month. I'll let you know. At least, I will have time to check with my accountant if the company car option makes sense.

[DiscoMick]

Originally Posted by DiscoMick https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/08/768.jpg (http://www.aulro.com/afvb/general-chat/203674-tesla-cars-post2204394.html#post2204394) Rooftop solar is sounding better every day.
One day every house, office and factory will be solar powered, vehicles will be electric and smog will have disappeared. Bring it on.


The Tesla X looks promising.
Model X | Tesla Motors (http://www.teslamotors.com/en_AU/modelx)
Like the car we're discussing, until battery tech makes a quantum leap, it is just a pipe dream. __________________




The technology is already here and businesses are already going solar to protect themselves from spiraling mains electricity bills - why wouldn't they? That will make electric vehicles more practical choices.
If the vehicle is being financed it will probably be rolled over before the batteries need replacing anyway.

[Homestar]

Originally Posted by DiscoMick https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/08/768.jpg (http://www.aulro.com/afvb/general-chat/203674-tesla-cars-post2204394.html#post2204394) Rooftop solar is sounding better every day.
One day every house, office and factory will be solar powered, vehicles will be electric and smog will have disappeared. Bring it on.


The Tesla X looks promising.
Model X | Tesla Motors (http://www.teslamotors.com/en_AU/modelx)
Like the car we're discussing, until battery tech makes a quantum leap, it is just a pipe dream. __________________




The technology is already here and businesses are already going solar to protect themselves from spiraling mains electricity bills - why wouldn't they? That will make electric vehicles more practical choices.
If the vehicle is being financed it will probably be rolled over before the batteries need replacing anyway.

All well and good when the sun is out. Your claim of smog disappearing by the adoption of Solar on all buildings is many years off, due to both battery technology and how a large integrated grid works. You can't just bung Solar panels on every roof and expect it to work - it won't.

Until battery tech allows a building to be off the grid on a stand alone system that is as cheap or cheaper than buying power from the grid, then there simply won't be mass uptake of it.

Same goes for electric cars - until they can do everything a petrol powered car can do for the same price or cheaper, they will just be fringe dwellers.

[ramblingboy42]

People are forgetting the "footprint".

The vehicle is produced using a lot of energy.

Even though it may be emission free it requires to be charged with electricity from a conventional power station.

Now, if the vehicle is charged with power solely from a solar or hydro-electric source , we may be starting to approach zero emissions truly , not just at one point.

[Jojo]

Today I had the opportunity to test drive a Tesla Model S. Impressive, to say the least. Without engine noise it really is quiet inside (well, compared to my Land Rovers almost anything else is...), performance is top notch (also, compared to my usual means of transport, this is almost inevitable) and it really is nice to drive, to say the least. Fun to drive would be more to the point, I think. I still have some difficulties to get used to the electronics on board, the touch screen that basically controls everything, the fact you don't have a spare wheel and not even a jack on board. No CD-player either, everything via online internet connection. Will this work in real life? Obviously so far it does. If it stops, just call roadside assistance... well...
On the other hand, the warranty and service looks promising. Filling up for free is also a huge benefit. In contrast to most of the other electrical powered vehicles available, the Tesla is designed and build as such, not only adapted to it, which definitely feels when driving it. From a safety point of view, it is engineered for maximum crash protection, scoring top results in crash tests all around the globe. The chap having a test drive before me bought one straight away... It's not cheap, though! But, as stated, as a company car it may make sense. I am still undecided, but it definitely looks interesting, especially as I can run it for free, producing my own electricity. I'll need to sleep over it I think and then speak to my accountant :p If Tesla would offer a no-frills version I'd be first in line to order one, definitely!

[amazing]

the gearbox seems a weak point.

Edmunds' Long-Term Tesla Model S On Fourth Drive Unit, Going Up For Sale (http://insideevs.com/edmunds-long-term-tesla-model-s-on-fourth-drive-unit-going-up-for-sale/)

more on it
http://www.teslamotors.com/forum/forums/whats-edmunds-and-drive-units?page=1

[DBT]

What kind of maintenance schedule does it have? Anything like a regular car? Are there still lubes and stuff to maintain?

[nat_89]

Today I had the opportunity to test drive a Tesla Model S. Impressive, to say the least. Without engine noise it really is quiet inside (well, compared to my Land Rovers almost anything else is...), performance is top notch (also, compared to my usual means of transport, this is almost inevitable) and it really is nice to drive, to say the least. Fun to drive would be more to the point, I think. I still have some difficulties to get used to the electronics on board, the touch screen that basically controls everything, the fact you don't have a spare wheel and not even a jack on board. No CD-player either, everything via online internet connection. Will this work in real life? Obviously so far it does. If it stops, just call roadside assistance... well...
On the other hand, the warranty and service looks promising. Filling up for free is also a huge benefit. In contrast to most of the other electrical powered vehicles available, the Tesla is designed and build as such, not only adapted to it, which definitely feels when driving it. From a safety point of view, it is engineered for maximum crash protection, scoring top results in crash tests all around the globe. The chap having a test drive before me bought one straight away... It's not cheap, though! But, as stated, as a company car it may make sense. I am still undecided, but it definitely looks interesting, especially as I can run it for free, producing my own electricity. I'll need to sleep over it I think and then speak to my accountant :p If Tesla would offer a no-frills version I'd be first in line to order one, definitely!

Its a gorgeous car and from the reviews I've seen it looks pretty amazing and that front screen has some awesome technology, glad to hear someone drive it and have a real world review good luck, id love to have a drive myself!!

[UncleHo]

G'day Jojo :)

Wow, on line internet, and we can't even get Broadband 2, as our Kreeky old copper lines havn't got the capability :( so while others get fibre-optic capability we have to take what we can get or go to expensive sattalite

[Jojo]

What kind of maintenance schedule does it have? Anything like a regular car? Are there still lubes and stuff to maintain?

No real schedule, Tesla recommends a service once a year. Either at one of their facilities or a technician will come to wherever you have your vehicle (for a nominal fee). No lubes needed, but check of the brakes, rotating tyres, topping up of coolant for battery, etc. Software updates are done automatically by WiFi all the time using the car's online connection.

There is an 8-year warranty on battery and driveline, this should cover any eventual failures. That's what Tesla says, anyway. The car has been sold in Norway by the bucket (it has been the most sold car there temporarily) and no driveline failures have been reported from there, despite the often adverse driving conditions there. Maybe Tesla has been able to sorting out this issue?


G'day Jojo

Wow, on line internet, and we can't even get Broadband 2, as our Kreeky old copper lines havn't got the capability so while others get fibre-optic capability we have to take what we can get or go to expensive sattalite

Cheers mate!
Yep, it's rather amazing what technology can achieve these days. Sometimes it can even become scary as we are becoming so used and dependent on all these things. You don't want to think about what might happen when things screw up. It may be easy to draw a new wire, but fixing a broken satellite requires more than your usual assortment of tools in the shed. But if, and as long as, it works, it's truly amazing!
Hope all is well with your lot at Gateacre!
Cheers