2014 Range Rover Tyres and Suspension for Australian conditions.

[Ozjet]

Hi everyone,

I have a problem. I want to buy the new Vogue. I love ALMOST everything about the new Vogue diesel V8 but can't seem to get my head around a couple of things that make me question it's suitability for Australian conditions. I'm hoping that if I explain where and how I intend using it some of you more experienced Range Rover owners might be able to throw some light on the validity of my concerns.


My context and declaration of bias:

Firstly, I live in country/state where Toyota reigns supreme. There are dealerships in pretty much every remote town and every second car you pass on a gravel road in the middle of nowhere is a Toyota. I myself currently own the last of the 100 Series diesel Landcruiser Sahara's and have done 200,000km of motoring without any spend outside of the scheduled servicing and tyres etc. In a nutshell, my Toyota has been incredibly reliable and I've driven into the middle of nowhere knowing that if something did fail I could probably have it repaired in the next closest town where it's likely that they would have parts on hand. On the other hand, Range Rover dealers are pretty thin on the ground outside of Perth AND Land Rover vehicles actually have a big reputation for being unreliable

Now, I know that there will be some of you ready (and able) to jump to the defence of the claimed reliability issues that are causing me concern (in truth I want to be persuaded otherwise) I really want to hear from you so hit me with as much as you can tell me here. I know that although my own Toyota hasn't had any problems, Toyotas aren't without fault. I also know through reading endless reviews that many are claiming that the Land Rover reliability issues of the past have seem to be resolved in the current suite of Land Rover models. Is this actually the case? I also know that if I did buy a new 200 series Land Cruiser and it failed it's likely that it would have to be put on a flatbed truck and carried away like any other highly computerised new car. I have also heard that the fine print on the roadside assist offered by Land Rover has also changed and is not as good as before.

My usage pattern: 80% of the year the car is my daily runner - although this only represents about between 30% - 40% of the actual kilometres that I do. The rest of the kilometres are clocked up touring this vast country (towing an offroad camper trailer) - mostly on sealed roads but often (about 10%) on a combination of gravel and sand surfaces. Our unsealed gravel roads are often long and arduous and almost always have very long stretches of corrugation. The driving surfaces are often rough - covered with sharp gravel or rock and are the most common cause of tyre failure. It's the effect of corrugations and road service on the Vogues suspension and tyres that make me most nervous. Experienced drivers in the outback mitigate their risk of suspension and tyre failure by using suitable large(ish) profile AT's that they can deflate just enough on the rough stuff so the tyres themselves absorb much of the impact that would ordinarily carry through to the suspension on a car where the tyres are fully inflated.

It appears that I can't get the Vogue with rims smaller than 20 inch. The dealer also told me yesterday that there is an after market 19 inch rim available for sale but that by using these I'd loose my warranty on related parts of the car.

All of the following links point to reviews that generally rave about the Range Rover. However, every single one of them has something in common - in their testing or usage, ALL of them did a tyre (or two) and a couple of them blew out their rear suspension/shock absorbers

Range Rover Vogue SE TDV6 (2014) long-term test review | Road Testing Reviews | Car Magazine Online (http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/Drives/Search-Results/Long-term-tests/Range-Rover-Vogue-SE-TDV6-2013-long-term-test-review/)

Range Rover Review | 2013 Vogue SE SDV8 Off-Road | The Motor Report (http://www.themotorreport.com.au/56963/2013-range-rover-vogue-se-sdv8-off-road-review)

Range Rover Vogue TDV6 Outback Review (http://www.drive.com.au/new-car-reviews/range-rover-vogue-tdv6-outback-road-test-20130816-2s0i5.html)

Drive - 2013 Range Rover Review (http://www.drive.com.au/motor-news/first-drive-review-2013-range-rover-20121113-2993e.html)

Gibb River Rd (http://gibbadventure.blogspot.com.au/)

I'm trying my best to convince myself that the V8 diesel Vogue would be suitable to do the driving I like to do. Has anyone with a Range Rover used it in a way similar to way I intend using it. If so, I'd love to get your points of view. Thank you in advance.

[nat_89]

They are an absolutely awesome car I would love one!! I've got a new Discovery 4 and love it just eats up the dirt roads great so I'm sure of you got the new Vogue and only had 20" tyres you could put the Cooper Zeons on. As with all new Land Rovers since 2010 tata has taken over spent an absolute fortune and it's really starting to show the reliability issues are long gone they are great cars and you won't regret one.

[cripesamighty]

Look up "GregMilner" for some of his posts on his travels up North with his fairly new Range Rover.

[Ozjet]

Thanks for that reassurance and info - now off to hunt down posts from someone who sounds as though he's using the car for exactly the same things I intend using it for.

[Ozjet]

Thanks cripesamighty.

I found Greg's blog post and it was the same post as I linked to in my opening comments. Greg's experience is one of the reasons that makes me shake with fear about buying a Rangie - especially now that the smallest rims that can be fitted on the SDV8 are 20 inch.

The guys in the Drive Vogue outback review also had the same problem with the stock shockies on the SDV8 they were testing.

I've done the Gibb and Mitchell Falls in both a mid 90's Pajero and my 100 series Land cruiser - no issues with either of them. I guess that I could get the V6 with 19 inch options but I test drove both and enjoyed the V8 much more.

Do you know if there are any aftermarket shocks that can be fitted to the Rangie that are better than stock, or more specifically, designed specifically for our kind of corrugated roads. I totally understand that the shockies that come stock are part of the well thought through engineering package that gives the Rangie its perfect ride and handling package for sealed roads - where it is most used. If I was able to do a temporary shockie swap I'd probably be less inclined to worry about the suspension.

Cheers

[Graeme]

If there's a base model that doesn't have the CVD shocks then they would be expected to fit but you'd want to at least unplug the current shocks first to see to what extent and in what way the CVD ecu objects. Alternatively remove the CVD ecu's fuse to see in what way other systems react and if they pose an intollerable restriction.

[Ozjet]

Hi Graeme - I'm both a newbie and not super mechanical - though I do understand the basic engineering principles as they relate to the physics of the movement of a vehicle. I don't however have a knowledge base yet that allows me to fully understand what you're explaining...

I think that what you are saying is there might be a shockie that they use on more basic models that would be more suitable for the type of use I'm describing. If there is, they should fit on the Vogue without too much drama but it could be that brain in the Vogue goes "Hang on, I don't recognise these new shockies" and potentially even worse it might say "bugger you, I'm not driving anywhere with those shockies on"

Whats the CVD stand for?

[Graeme]

CVD is LR's acronym for continuously variable dampers. The shocks are fitted with a solenoid operated bypass valve that is opened to varying degrees under ecu control depending on suspension movement frequency and extent utilising the height sensor signals to allow some oil flow through what LR calls the soft valve rather than all through the firm valve. My thoughts from the reported very smooth ride over bad surfaces for extended periods is that CVD is overworking the shocks and therefore plain old shocks may survive better, albeit likely not with the same smooth ride.

The CVD ecu is effectively a separate ecu to the suspension ecu even though these days they occupy the same physical container probably because they now use the same height sensor signals. The earlier version used dual height sensors and distinct ecus. However as the ecus send messages to each other there is a possibility that one or more of the other systems may go into some sort of limp home mode.

[Ozjet]

Graeme, you are bloody guru. Thanks for that. I guess what I'm leaning towards is leaving the Vogue suspension as stock and acknowledging that the designers didn't really have Australian outback corrugations as part of their brief when they did the engineering. It does sound that our roads will push the car to its absolute limits. It isn't the end of the world I guess - probably means that sometimes the Rangie will stay garaged while the LC200 goes out for a play - which probably won't be that often given how much I reckon I'll want to be driving the Vogue.

[101RRS]

probably means that sometimes the Rangie will stay garaged while the LC200 goes out for a play

You had better have a better 200 series than my brothers 6 month old Sahara TDV8 - its front suspension has already sagged and has never seen a corrugation.

Garry

[Ozjet]

Whoops - that was meant to read LC100 Series... LC200 series was shortlisted but is no longer a contender - especially of I keep my 100 for rough and tumble stuff.

[nat_89]

Hahaha one drive in a Vogue and i can guarantee the 100 series won't move again they are just an epic car, as for off road just use your brain and due diligence don't go stupid and you'll be right.

[CSBrisie]

Ozjet, we own a MY12 TDV8 (4.4 8 speed etc) with e-diff (which I just learnt is much stronger than the standard one and a must for heavy towing) and we fitted Cooper LTZ tyres on 20's and so far so good. I know Greg M and as my car is identical I watched with interest his trip up the Gibb, (which incidentally did include a significant period of trouble free motoring off road and on road). We are doing the Plenty and Red Centre next year towing a camper trailer so it will be a good test over 4 weeks (car is set up with second battery, redarc, EBC, UHF, etc) and has been brilliant over 35000kms - but all off roading has been day trips (Sunshine Coast hinterlands etc) and sand (eg Stradboke, Moreton Islands). Never faulted. I have no plans to upgrade - to a L402- but if I did I would order a 190kw SDV6 with e-diff and fit the 18 inch GOE rims and LT tyres. This would resolve most of the issues you raise and with the car 420kg lighter than mine - suspect 600nm is ample torque!!

Good luck and keep us informed!!

[101RRS]

You had better have a better 200 series than my brothers 6 month old Sahara TDV8 - its front suspension has already sagged and has never seen a corrugation.

Garry


Whoops - that was meant to read LC100 Series... LC200 series was shortlisted but is no longer a contender - especially of I keep my 100 for rough and tumble stuff.

Well I hope your 100 series is better than my brothers previous petrol V8 100 series - its front suspension not only sagged but a few cracks were found as well.

My silly brother keeps on buying Toyotas but doesn't seem to learn his bad experience lessons.

[AndyG]

Or, you could carry a spare set of rear shocks.

[peter g]

Hi Ozjet, Like you I would love the new TDV8, however l would buy the TDV6 (still heaps of power for me) if I could fit 18" rims. Gordon at Green Oval said he would check whether his Compomotive 18" rims would fit, however as yet no response. I would never go larger than 18" for the off road use you describe.
Until there is a solution I will stick with my L322

[Ozjet]

Like I said - Pretty sure that the mantle of "unbreakable" probably no longer applies to the Toyota LC200. What did they do about his suspension? Ignore, deny or rectify?

[Ozjet]

Thanks Peter g

Very interested to hear if those 18's end up fitting and also curious about why you'd go the V6 over the V8 - if other than for the wheel issues...

[Ozjet]

Thanks CSBrisie. Are you going to blog your experiences? The dealer has told me that there is currently about a 4 to 5 month delivery time which means that I'd order it in about Feb/March of 2015 so that it was delivered in at the beginning of the 14/15 financial year. What this really means that I've got time on my side to get comfortable with what I choose to do.

In all my reading thus far I've not come across the e-diff option. I can't even see it as an option on the downloadable spec sheet of the LR website. The dealer didn't mention it at all either. I think I might have to go back to him and ask.

These forums are terrific - thanks so much to those who have contributed so far to this thread.

[Ozjet]

Andy G I guess I could carry a spare set of shocks and then I'd also have to carry a few cartons of beer to pay the first mechanically able passerby to get under the car, in the dust and hot sun to fix it. I guess for me it would be a win win situation. If I wrecked my shocks it would mean I'd get home 2 shocks and 3 cartons lighter. If I didn't wreck my shocks I'd have had a trouble free trip with addtiional piece of mind that I wouldn't be stranded if I did - and know that I'd have enough beer to not have to ration myself too much.

[CSBrisie]

The e-diff is listed as "Active Rear Locking Differential" when you choose to "build" your own on line.

[peter g]

Hi Ozjet, I would love the V8, only reason is the wheel size, I believe that even 19's wont fit on the V8. I have driven both and the V6 has plenty of power for anything I will do. V8 is really sports car like performance.

[Ozjet]

Thanks peter g. I must admit that I'm a bit of a sucker for power! Especially when I am towing and still also want to be able to overtake. My other car alongside my 100 Series Landcruiser is currently a 2012 911S - which is what I'll be selling to buy the Rangie - so, for me to concede the sports performance of a sports car I'd at least like an SUV with sports car like performance. The new Cayenne diesel S is still on my shortlist but I must admit the Rangie appears to now have it's nose well ahead. Currently, the way I feel right now is that I'll keep the 100 Series, sell the 911 and buy the Rangie SDV8 and just use the 100 series for when I need to carry more than 5 (which is still quite often) or when I know it's going to get knocked around. The price differences between the Vogue SDV8 and Cayenne S Diesel is pretty huge - which is one of the reasons why the Cayenne is still on the list.

[peter g]

Hi Ozjet
Re Liking a bit of power, It seems we have that in common, I love the Rangie but wont be selling my SL 500 any time soon.
Sell the 911 ?? Don't do it, I promise you will regret it. Sell the Toyota, and investigate the toughest and highest profile tyres you can fit on the 20's if you must have the V8.
regards
Peter

[nat_89]

Thanks peter g. I must admit that I'm a bit of a sucker for power! Especially when I am towing and still also want to be able to overtake. My other car alongside my 100 Series Landcruiser is currently a 2012 911S - which is what I'll be selling to buy the Rangie - so, for me to concede the sports performance of a sports car I'd at least like an SUV with sports car like performance. The new Cayenne diesel S is still on my shortlist but I must admit the Rangie appears to now have it's nose well ahead. Currently, the way I feel right now is that I'll keep the 100 Series, sell the 911 and buy the Rangie SDV8 and just use the 100 series for when I need to carry more than 5 (which is still quite often) or when I know it's going to get knocked around. The price differences between the Vogue SDV8 and Cayenne S Diesel is pretty huge - which is one of the reasons why the Cayenne is still on the list.

If it comes down to price i would get the SDV6 before i got the Porsche they are just a smaller car and I'm not to sure how good they are off road depending on how much you want to go off road also they are a big rough with the massive tyres they come with to, also the interior bloody hell there is just a million buttons all over the shot but i guess having a Porsche 911 your used to it but thats my thought. I mean the SDV6 is just a bit slower to 100 not that much difference maybe 0.9 second i think somewhere like that but then again the extra power of the V8 would be nice.

[discojools]

Pirelli ATR 275/55/20 or Cooper LTZ 275/55/20 both good tyres for new RRS to go offroad. Would assume they would fit Range Rover SDV8. Just used Pirellis offroad in Wyperfield and Murray Sunset Parks here in Victoria on friend's new Sport. Went really well in sand gravel and mud. Sport awesome off and on road.

[CSBrisie]

Yes, the Cooper Discoverer AT3 will fit, but with some rubbing in rear wheel well (can be fixed) and of course the spare wheel well needs some mods too; speedo will be out 9% too I think; in the end I stuck with the 50 series Cooper LTZ (as it's 90% used on road) rather than 55 series as a bit of a compromise.

[Ozjet]

Thanks for all your comments - I'm thinking the Rangie is over the line now - with 20 inch tyres and a to hell with it attitude to the shockie/tyre situation on corrugations and sharp rocks. It's going to be worth it right? I'll update this thread once I use the car in the conditions I've been most concerned about. Now to decide between the V8 or the V6 - but I'll start this conversation in a new thread.

[GregMilner]

Hi Ozjet, happy to meet up if you want to discuss - I got particularly unlucky on our last Kimberley trip with 20s on my 2012 TDV8, but I certainly felt more comfortable with the backup of LR's excellent roadside assist service.

And there were lots of Tojos and Nissans suffering equally horrible failures, without the same backup. Had I known what I now know, I would have been able to better adjust my driving to the conditions. And like you, I have neither the knowledge, the equipment nor the desire to be carrying spare shocks and changing complex systems by the side of the road - certainly don't want to be risking warranty loss by doing so.

[AndyG]

It would seem relatively straightforward, going by what's available, for a instrument technician or similar to set up a pair of surface mount thermometers on the rear shocks and a temp read out in the cabin. So when you got to a uncomfortable temperature it was time for a smoko.

[Lindisfarne]

Hi Ozjet, I have the same queries as you re a 2014 RR Sport V8 diesel with 20 inch rims. Seems no smaller rim will fit. I'm after light truck rated all terrains with tracks like the Gunbarrel and Canning in mind.

Dealer in Melbourne (ULR) advised that a client had BFG all terrain LT 285/55 R20 fitted to rims for his Vogue (I think latest model) and they didn't work, set off error codes.

If I can find LT tyres to work on RRS 20 inch and be comfortable with shock/air bag reliability I'm keen to buy too.

Anyone's advice much appreciated.

[GregMilner]

Hi Ozjet, I have the same queries as you re a 2014 RR Sport V8 diesel with 20 inch rims. Seems no smaller rim will fit. I'm after light truck rated all terrains with tracks like the Gunbarrel and Canning in mind.

Dealer in Melbourne (ULR) advised that a client had BFG all terrain LT 285/55 R20 fitted to rims for his Vogue (I think latest model) and they didn't work, set off error codes.

If I can find LT tyres to work on RRS 20 inch and be comfortable with shock/air bag reliability I'm keen to buy too.

Anyone's advice much appreciated.

You might want to get some more opinions on the fitting of 19s to the new sport. I got conflicting advice re 19s on my Vogue, the local dealer saying you can, independent mechanics saying you can't.

[discojools]

I am pretty sure that any 2014 RRS with Dynamic Option can only take 20" (or larger) wheels due larger brakes being needed for torque vectoring being part of that option. SDV8 Sport has Dynamic as standard and so does Supercharged Petrol V8. I have Dynamic option on my SDV6 and the rear brake discs are bigger than my friends 2014 RRS SDV6 which hasn't got the Dynamic option. As I said below, Pirelli ATR or Cooper LTZ Zeon 275/55/20 are the only offroad tyres available in a size compatible with 2014 RRS at the moment. They are slightly wider and taller and the ATRs worked really well in mud and sand on my friends new RRS which we took on an offroad trip a couple of weeks ago.
Dynamic option on the RRS consists of adjustable dampers, torque vectoring and a rear eDiff locker.

[CSBrisie]

Greg, 19's fit the Vogue (not all 19's, but certain designs) - I know because when I bought my car the dealer had a Vogue "non luxury model" MY12 next to it at the dealership in Melbourne, on 19's, same look, and asked if I wanted the smaller rims.
cheers

[GregMilner]

Greg, 19's fit the Vogue (not all 19's, but certain designs) - I know because when I bought my car the dealer had a Vogue "non luxury model" MY12 next to it at the dealership in Melbourne, on 19's, same look, and asked if I wanted the smaller rims.
cheers

Good to know Chris, that's what I'll be looking to buy before my next major off road trip - expensive piece of mind though. Now I guess it's a case of finding out WHICH 19s fit the car. AND having to buy at least five of them.

[Ozjet]

Greg, I'd love to catch up over a coffee...I've just arrived back in Perth from quite a bit of business travel so it might be a couple of weeks before I'm able to connect. I'll direct message you to see if we can tee something up. Nothing better than listening to the stories of wanderers.

[GregMilner]

No worries, look forward to it, let me know when you're available.

[RR44TDV8]

Hi Ozjet, my car is the Sydney clone of Chris and Greg's cars........White MY12 TDV8 4.4ltr 8spd. I have banged on about this before but prior to this one, I bought new BMW X5's and RR Sports on an annual basis. My job is to do a lot of highway work running between mine sites all over the country inc. Qld, NSW and WA. My cars generally do two or three times the national average mileage in a year and whilst they may only do a small amount of true 4wding, they do a hell of a lot of work on very poor and corrugated roads. When I found out the new RR was imminent, I went out and bought an L322 because I wanted one more dose of that big boxy look of a full fat Rangie. I sold a 3 month old X5 and two of my kids to get the car and I love it. Like you, I had a 911 for 8 years, a 993 Turbo but sold it because I never used it since the RR arrived. I still smile when I see pictures of the Porsche, but nothing makes me look forward to a trip to the corner store like the RR. When I climb out of bed at 4am on a cold winter morning and know I have three days of driving ahead of me to get around the mines I need to go to, I relish it, really love it because it's seat time in the best car I have ever owned. I have now owned it one year longer than any other work car in the last 10 years and I do not even think about selling it. The tyres worried me when I first got it but now I am on my second set of Pirelli and I have never had a puncture. I have some pretty serious side wall damage from sharp rocks and sometimes having to climb out of river bed crossings, but I have not had a failure as yet and the damage is mostly cosmetic. Here's an interesting thing........my car normally runs light. I don't travel with a crew and I only take what I need and that isn't much. I mostly stay in hotels, motels or mining camps so I only ever have a swag if I think I might be roughing it and I don't tow a trailer, have a roof rack or run the car fully loaded and this probably plays a large role in keeping tyres alive and not wearing out shock absorbers. I have had my shocks checked constantly after learning of Greg's issues but at 77,000km, mine are doing fine! Final thing I'll say is the fuel economy is better than any car I have ever had , doing the same job. I regularly get between 7.9/100 and 8.7/100 on my trips.....that's incredible. The V6 would be great but the V8 is better!
Rgds
Grant

[Ozjet]

Thanks Grant, that's a really encouraging post.

I'm likely to keep the Porsche even when (can't believe I just said "when") I get the Rangie. I too like to travel light - but this is all relative to the fact that I'm hauling a family of 5 around with provisions for 3 weeks at a time as I do think that weight is a greater reason for suspension and tyre failure than anything else. Both you and Greg have the L322? Greg's horror story was somewhat offset by the way LR provided him with support. What has your experience been like - or has nothing ever failed on your L322? I'm guessing that the latest iteration with substantial weight reduction will mean that there will be less issues with tyres and suspension. Have either of you thought about the trade up?

I test drove the 2013 Autobiography (V8 diesel) with 30000k's on it last month in Melbourne. It drove beautifully - one wonders why I'd bother with new (apart from the fact that there aren't any at all for sale at the moment). It was only 206k - a helluva lot cheaper than the 270k price for the drive away version I'm looked at in Perth.

Cheers
Dean

[GregMilner]

You're probably much better off buying a one or two-year-old car Dean. When I got mine it was a year old, 13,000kms. Like all big cars, it had dropped like a stone from $200K + new to $120K plus on-roads in 12 months. It was the very car the dealer had tried to sell me off the showroom floor a year earlier, and I couldn't tell the difference. Except the guy who did buy it new had blinged it with massive 22inch Kahn wheels and tyres, and put the OEM wheels in his garage. So I got both sets.

[Ozjet]

yep Greg, I'm thinking the same thing - I think the trouble I'll have will be aligning the desired timing of my purchase with available cars that meet my criteria. I probably would have jumped onto the 2013 Autobiography had it not been for the fact that it wasn't optioned with the active rear diff. Its about a $1500 option from memory but not sure how important it is in reality - getting mixed opinions about it.

[GregMilner]

yep Greg, I'm thinking the same thing - I think the trouble I'll have will be aligning the desired timing of my purchase with available cars that meet my criteria. I probably would have jumped onto the 2013 Autobiography had it not been for the fact that it wasn't optioned with the active rear diff. Its about a $1500 option from memory but not sure how important it is in reality - getting mixed opinions about it.

From what I know about it - which isn't much - the cars are already so capable that an ediff isn't really necessary, unless you're doing really heavy off road stuff, or a lot of heavy towing off road.

I don't even know if mine is optioned with it or not, but in the limited amount of off-roading I;ve done in mine in the Kimberley, I certainly didn't have any traction problems, and I was towing a 1.5 ton camper.

[RR44TDV8]

From what I know about it - which isn't much - the cars are already so capable that an ediff isn't really necessary, unless you're doing really heavy off road stuff, or a lot of heavy towing off road.

I don't even know if mine is optioned with it or not, but in the limited amount of off-roading I;ve done in mine in the Kimberley, I certainly didn't have any traction problems, and I was towing a 1.5 ton camper.

I agree entirely with Greg's summation here..........I don't have the e-diff and have never needed it and I have had mine in ugly places from time to time.

I have never considered the upgrade possibility as I don't like the Evoque/New Sport look of the new 405.........don't want the lean back roof although I guess one day I am going to have to confront that issue.

I have never had any issues mechanically with mine, nothing other than two windscreens and another one being fitted on Tuesday next week. Hassle with the size of the damn screen is it attracts rocks in the bush like a rock magnet! I spend time on haul roads on mine sites as well and the big trucks throw rocks all the time. Funny thing is I have no paint scratches on the front of the car at all but have been through three screens! At nearly $3k per screen, tick the "windscreen option" on your insurance policy!

Rgds
Grant

[CSBrisie]

Thanks for the Windscreen tip Grant - I'll check my policy on that!!
cheers


Chris

[Ozjet]

Cost of windscreen noted. Thanks for that heads up. In regards the e-diff, my understanding was that it was going to provide for greater stability at speed (not necessarily warp speed), towing a reasonable load on gravel roads. My ultimate intention is to tow an off-road caravan around and through Oz on roads less travelled. I'm not thinking these roads are going to be super 4WD tracks - more like gazetted gravel "highways". (Duncan Hwy, Tanami Rd etc). I guess the biggest issues on these roads are corrugations and the pressure they put on tyres and shockies but probably more dangerous than that is the chance of getting a bit of a wobble up and going sideways...

Maybe the e-diff won't improve this at all??

Cheers
Dean

[Graeme]

I guess the biggest issues on these roads are corrugations and the pressure they put on tyres and shockies but probably more dangerous than that is the chance of getting a bit of a wobble up and going sideways...

Maybe the e-diff won't improve this at all??I saw the stabilty control light on my e-diff equipped 3.0 D4 at 80-90 kph whilst accelerating fairly quickly on a gravel road recently. I don't know that this implies anything about the e-diff though.

[CSBrisie]

The vast majority of LR products do all and more than their owners ask of them, without the e-diff fitted. If buying new - add it - it's $1100 option on a minimum $70k purchase (Base D4) so it's a no brainier; But, if second hand - having owned Discos with and without, I wouldnt worry about it; you will find the car will do everything you want anyway in all likelihood ! :D

btw - I recall the ediff isn't available on base - diesel 6 - L405's now, only on the V8's. At least you can fit (GOE) 18 inch wheels on the 6 tho!

[Ozjet]

...and I guess if I'm ridged about having an e-diff and i'm buying second hand I'm probably going to have to say no to a few cars before I find one with my exact preferences. It isn't like as a prospective second hand buyer of a 2013 SDV8 Autobiography I'm spoiled for choice. I've scoured the internet and there are exactly ZERO for sale right now. Hopefully they will become more available as time goes on. Pity I said no to the one for 206k that was for sale in Melbs about a month ago.

[CSBrisie]

Have you accessed TOPIx yet? Free to register. Then, get the VIN from the advertisement / or the car itself and plug that into TOPIx.
It gives you a build sheet for the car - so you can see what options it has including whther the rear diff is "open" or "rear e-diff". (Dealers often leave out options - this way you know before you go see the car!).

I found it quite useful as there is always the risk that a car is advertsied without e-diff (when it actually has it!) - but TOPIx will tell you! :cool:

Home | TOPIx (http://topix.landrover.jlrext.com/topix/vehicle/lookupForm)

[RR44TDV8]

Cost of windscreen noted. Thanks for that heads up. In regards the e-diff, my understanding was that it was going to provide for greater stability at speed (not necessarily warp speed), towing a reasonable load on gravel roads. My ultimate intention is to tow an off-road caravan around and through Oz on roads less travelled. I'm not thinking these roads are going to be super 4WD tracks - more like gazetted gravel "highways". (Duncan Hwy, Tanami Rd etc). I guess the biggest issues on these roads are corrugations and the pressure they put on tyres and shockies but probably more dangerous than that is the chance of getting a bit of a wobble up and going sideways...

Maybe the e-diff won't improve this at all??

Cheers
Dean


Dean,


I have towed this trailer which had a gross weight when absolutely full of around 3.5 tonnes and that includes loading it with display stuff and taking it to a mine site for an open display day and that meant gravel roads...........never occurred to me that I may have needed an e-diff! Only thought I ever had when towing it, and mostly it was the race trailer for my Porsche race car, was how the engine didn't know it was there and the brakes made equally short work of towing the thing! The trailer had brakes, obviously, and with three axles it was very stable but still, I never thought, "Crap! Wish I had an e-diff!" Maybe I'm missing the point but with the amount of electronics going on in the RR, I would avoid an unnecessary and questionable aid like the e-diff unless I was ordering new and then, I would always wonder if I just threw $1500 down the gurgler for no apparent reason??
I will probably be labelled a Philistine, but as good as the e-diff might be, I just wonder why I have never needed or wished for it. This from a guy who throws an LSD into every 4wd ute our company owns as they are useless without them!
Rgds
Grant

[Ozjet]

Thanks Grant, that's an enormous looking rig! - I'm now convinced an e-diff is an unnecessary addition. Alrighty, it's now a matter of waiting for one these cars becomes available. I'm not really ready this very minute and I'm thinking that more car choices at cheaper pricing will become available the longer I wait. Also, thanks Chris for the info on TOPIx. I'll definitely do that.

[rar110]

I understood the D3/4 ediff is physically stronger than an open diff. That would be the main reason I would want one. I don't know if it's the same on a FFRR with TR.

[CSBrisie]

Grant do you know the tow ball weight of that rig when loaded? I'm wrestling with the "issue" that for whatever reason the towball weight on the FFRR is 100kg less than the D4; wondered if you carried greater than 250kg on the ball and had had no issues? I'm aware of warranty, insurance potential issues if we exceed the 250 - but am hoping LR are being conservative; we are looking at buying an off road caravan - probably second hand Bushtracker 18 foot (family van) - read Heavy - 3-3500kg laden; and the only real concern I have is tow ball weight given the 250kg listed for the car. Not sure if anyone on here has any views? We have looked at a few other lighter makes of van - but keep coming back to a BT based on reputation for being bullet proof and incredible resale value.

[GregMilner]

Grant do you know the tow ball weight of that rig when loaded? I'm wrestling with the "issue" that for whatever reason the towball weight on the FFRR is 100kg less than the D4; wondered if you carried greater than 250kg on the ball and had had no issues? I'm aware of warranty, insurance potential issues if we exceed the 250 - but am hoping LR are being conservative; we are looking at buying an off road caravan - probably second hand Bushtracker 18 foot (family van) - read Heavy - 3-3500kg laden; and the only real concern I have is tow ball weight given the 250kg listed for the car. Not sure if anyone on here has any views? We have looked at a few other lighter makes of van - but keep coming back to a BT based on reputation for being bullet proof and incredible resale value.

Hey Chris, do you really WANT to be able to carry more than 250kg on the tow ball? That's a helluva lot of extra weight swinging way out the back. Surely any towed vehicle can be set up to adjust the tow ball weight accordingly? I tow a 2.5 ton boat (probably nearer 3 tons with fuel and water aboard) and I just got the thing adjusted (by moving the axles a bit) so the tow ball weight was about 140-odd kilo. That's still a pretty heavy and secure load on the tow tongue.

[CSBrisie]

No, I don't Greg - less weight the better! I'm aiming for 250 max and ideally 200kg. Seems BT's are nose heavy with dual spares up front plus jerry cans on the A bar etc. sigh. A lot to think about it!

[Ozjet]

Uncanny, I'm looking at Bushtrackers, Kedrons or the Kimberley Cruiser. All I know about any of them is that they are heavy and ask a lot of the tow cars that are towing them. Then, when you load up the car with kids and the kitchen sink....(my wife believes that if there is a space it must be filled). I'm hoping that the weight on the ball won't exceed 150kg's and I'm hoping that the suspension on the Range Rover doesn't automatically default to the lowest ride height like my Landcruiser does at the moment when there is anymore than about 200kg combined weight on the back. A question I was going to ask was what weight (if any) the RR air suspension just chooses a low ride setting simply because it can't hold up it's tail end.

[Graeme]

A question I was going to ask was what weight (if any) the RR air suspension just chooses a low ride setting simply because it can't hold up it's tail end.It will never choose a lower height due to weight but if the compressor fails to raise the vehicle quickly enough then the system will fault. IIRC V2 Terrain Response defaults to leaving the height as is whereas the original TR would lower to the bump-stops in this situation. I've never heard of such a failure due to excessive weight, only from failing compressors.

[CSBrisie]

Dean, interestingly the owner of Kimberley (can't recall his name) owns a MY11 TDV8 RRV (4.4) and has towed his (Black Caviar) all over Oz; but even the latest full size (20 foot?) Kruiser is a lot lighter than a Kedron, Spinifex or BT. The latter hit 3.5 t and 350kg ball weight with ease once you hit 20 feet and fully loaded (thanks to things like 4 x water tanks at 80l each)!! Kimberly are justifiably proud of the fact there product is much lighter-but I don't think they do a family van design yet? They do a much smaller Kimberley Caravan with bunks - but it's very small and bunks really aimed at kids sub 8 years old. I keep coming back to BT based on so many positive comments on line and seeing them in remotest of locations - but gee they are heavy; I wish I could get some really good feedback on lighter, cheaper alternatives (Lotus, Roadstar, etc) but not as much seems to be written about them one way or the other - the only ones i have read virtually no issues what so ever are BT (almost over engineered and incredible resale value - eg 18 foot family vans from 2001 never less than $60k!!!) and Spinifex :(

[Ozjet]

Thanks Chris, That's good to know. Bruce Loxton is the guy you're talking about and I saw the video he posted that showed him doing a 3 point turn in the RR towing a Kimberley Kruiser. Incidently, I've just had occasion to spend a bit of time up with the Kimberley repair agents and have learned that some Kruisers leak like sieves. Anyway, I guess this discussion belongs in another forum altogether. What I have learned is that the Rangie is going to maintain it's set height despite the weight it's carrying at the rear. PS: They've made it so you can order the seating in the Kruiser so it's foldable into a bed - so now you can carrry the family. The issue with weight at the rear then is that it all transfers through the tyres - which is really for me - one of the biggest issues. I'm not sure I've seen anything written about RR tyre performance off road (on the long Aussie gravel road) when it's under substantial load and towing. Lots of stuff written from the point of view of a car journalist with an empty car driving in Morocco though!
Cheers Dean

[CSBrisie]

Yes that is an excellent point mate - I'm nervous I'm going to be one of the first attempting roads like the Plenty, with a full RR and a heavy van, all on Cooper LTZ 20's and it's not making me comfortable. Suddenly the LC 200 series looks somewhat more sensible ...or Disco 4 on GOE 18's with LTZ tyres ..... Big sigh :(

[RR44TDV8]

Grant do you know the tow ball weight of that rig when loaded? I'm wrestling with the "issue" that for whatever reason the towball weight on the FFRR is 100kg less than the D4; wondered if you carried greater than 250kg on the ball and had had no issues? I'm aware of warranty, insurance potential issues if we exceed the 250 - but am hoping LR are being conservative; we are looking at buying an off road caravan - probably second hand Bushtracker 18 foot (family van) - read Heavy - 3-3500kg laden; and the only real concern I have is tow ball weight given the 250kg listed for the car. Not sure if anyone on here has any views? We have looked at a few other lighter makes of van - but keep coming back to a BT based on reputation for being bullet proof and incredible resale value.

Sorry for late reply Chris, I have been away! I do not know the ball of the big trailer as we loaded it in a different way every time. We always were empathetic to the drag on the ball so I am guessing we never exceeded the 200kg! I drove it back from Brisbane to Sydney one night and honestly forgot it was there............I put my foot on the brake and nearly had an accident in my pants when this huge white thing appeared in the brake light reflection in my mirror! Damn Range Rovers.........so good they are almost dangerous!

[RR44TDV8]

Yes that is an excellent point mate - I'm nervous I'm going to be one of the first attempting roads like the Plenty, with a full RR and a heavy van, all on Cooper LTZ 20's and it's not making me comfortable. Suddenly the LC 200 series looks somewhat more sensible ...or Disco 4 on GOE 18's with LTZ tyres ..... Big sigh :( Chris, I have been searching the internet for 7 months now and and cant find an answer to my desire to fit smaller wheels on my TDV8 due to the massive front callipers. I have a question though......I have done the best "at a glance" study I can of the Disco 4 flares and I reckon the outside profile would fit the RR - does anyone know? Also, if you had some 25mm wheel spacers made front and rear and then had a wheel with significant positive offset, you could have the whole thing sit outboard of the brakes and not sit over the top of them. The wheel would be a maximum of 9-9.5" diameter and that would limit the width of the tyre, but it should work. I own a tyre shop in Brisbane so I am going to muck around with it next time I am up there. If the mechanical bits work OK, then I'll worry about the flares.

[Graeme]

Can you simply carry a 2nd spare wheel and a carcase or 2 on a roof rack? Wheel spacers are outright illegal but fitting discs and calipers from a lesser spec of the same model that allow the 18" rims (if available) might be an option.

[CSBrisie]

The GOE 18's are the logical option as they fit the guards, have a higher load index than stock wheels and are proven. So the logical option for MY11 onwards vehicles is to replace the (front only - rear are ok) brake discs with the smaller (MY08) ones. I don't know of anyone having done this but it must be possible-problem is you are the going to spend up to $6000 on wheels and Tyres (assume 6 GOE (2 spares) - 6 x LT tyres, plus the brake change. Gulp. :(

I'm going to stick with the (4 new) 285/50/20 Cooper LTZ plus two (new) spares for our trip and go slow and see how we go. It's a calculated risk I guess but I'm going to try and keep bare minimum in the rear of the Vogue (ARB fridge and not much else) and hope I can keep ball weight to 250kg, incl 2 jerry cans of fuel on the A bar. And keep speeds down ;) and tyre pressures not too low to help preserve rims.

[Graeme]

I'm going to stick with ....to help preserve rims.Sounds like a good plan. Decent sized front mudflaps would be worthwhile too.

[AndyG]

Will you take a set of rear shocks?

[Ozjet]

I'm going to be glued to this thread to ensure I don't miss any of the stories. Actually, really hoping that there will be no "stories" to tell other than you waxing lyrical on the explosions of panoramic delight en route as opposed to explosions involving rubber from tyres or seals from shocks!

[CSBrisie]

Yes, I'll be one happy camper if we get from Boulia to Alice trouble free - for lots of reasons not the least being if we get there drama free we will head back (after doing the usual Red Centre highlights for two weeks) the same way - rather than the much longer "detour" (!) via Tennant Creek. Anyway, focus now is getting the Caravan - the right caravan - which is consuming much of my grey matter at present I can tell you, - securing the "best" family Van (2nd hand)we can for c$60K.
cheers

[AndyG]

Planning to match Caravan rims to vehicle ?

[CSBrisie]

No, will have two spares on any Van we buy, with no doubt 16/17 inch rims and we will fit (if not already) LT strength AT tyres. I dont think the Van is going to be the issue - it will be the 20's on the car that will raise my blood pressure on the Plenty. Reminds me to start researching Tyre Pressure Monitoring systems - I have an old Tyre Dog one but it has played up (sensors) alot and only does 4 wheels / car anyway.

The rest of the trip will be mainly bitumen, other than the Mereenie Loop Road.

[Ozjet]

I reckon the "post trip" report may become one of the most valuable bits of reading for late model Range Rover owners intending on doing what many of us want to do - that is, hang a house off the back of it and drive beyond the black stump. Chapter 1 would be the Adventures on the Gibb authored by Greg and then Chapter 2 by you on the Plenty.

In some of the literature they (journo's) quote the number of "testing hours" LR subjected the Range Rover to in all sorts of terrain but I doubt that anything they did resembled the real life use that we're talking about here. If they did you would have thought that they would have given more consideration to the tyre options and at least design the car so it could be ordered with higher profile mainstream AT tyres (Cooper, BFG etc etc). Toby Hagon did a test drive in the outback - except that all the photos show the car completely unladen - and the only drama he had was with the tyres. I'd love a guy like him to actually convince LR to give him a RR to test under load on a long outback trip. I might tweet him. Nothing to loose I guess.

[AndyG]

Indeed, a TPMS was the best thing on board when i did the Birdsville and Stresleki in September, I jumped between pressure and temp every 30 minutes or so.

Had the valve mounted Tyredog, but in hindsite, if i had the time would have gone for the internally mounted ones. But these did the job well.

Oh, the new tyre dogs can do multiple wheels now

[Graeme]

Chapter 1 would be the Adventures on the Gibb authored by Greg and then Chapter 2 by you on the Plenty.How do the 2 roads compare for their traffic and normal condition? The Plenty didn't seem very popular when I drove west from Jervois back in 2008 and that section of the road at least was quite good.

[CSBrisie]

Good question Graeme, and I'm not certain TBH but I guesswe would have Members on here that would have done both, possibly towing too; I gather re the Plenty (from reading I've done) the road on the NT side can vary quite a bit, from post grading "smooth as a baby's bum" / easy 90-100km/hr cruise in many places; to bone jarring 25km/hr max speed sections post school holidays "over use" or post rain (ie mud / ruts drying out etc). I have no doubt alot of luck re: timing comes into play for travellers at various times.

Like most people we will make a final decsion on whether we head acrooss from Boulia (but a strong desire to) or head on the LONG Northern detour ( :() a few days prior once we have spoken with management at Gemtree / Tobermorey / Jervois Homestead re condition of the route.


Boulia to Alice Springs WHICH WAY ????? @ ExplorOz Forum (http://www.exploroz.com/Forum/Topic/95316/Boulia_to_Alice_Springs_WHICH_WAY______.aspx)

[Graeme]

I'm considering route options to get from Gemtree to Bourke after a group trip next winter as a single vehicle in my D4 with 17" LTs not towing anything, so roads will only need to be passable rather than good enough for your rig.

[CSBrisie]

Lucky you Graeme :p (should be a cinch in the D4 on LT's)
Lets hope you dont pass me stuck on the side of the road...! :(

[Ozjet]

I've done the Gibb twice - separated by a gap of about 20 year. I can't speak for the other road. I did it both times in the July school holidays and both times the road surface has been pretty similar. You can either drive over 80kmh because the road is smooth enough or you're forced to drive at that speed over the corrugations where the ride starts to smooth off (so either way I travel at about 80kmh) The difference between the first time I did it and the last time I did it was the amount of traffic. Second time (about 3 years ago) it was quite busy - making it nearly impossible to stay at the speed that's best for you for any length of time. It can also be pretty treacherous because of the speed that some cars drive (especially overseas tourists in those Land Cruiser Britz campers things).

Both times we encountered vehicles that were stranded because they had run out of tyres however, I think that all these vehicles had the the same things in common. Either they were running the equivalent of Dunlop Grand Trek type tyres or they were running tyres that were quite worn. Both times I've done the Gibb I've run near new Coopers (first time) and BFGs (second time). All the friends we've ever travelled with on the Gibb have all had similar tyres to us (that is, newish Coopers, BFGs etc) and none of us have ever had a failure.

The Gibb has a reputation for breaking suspension and for killing tyres. Sensible tyre choice and driving style mitigate against falling victim to it. However, I'm not sure that with the RR you have a lot of choice - particularly with the tyre choice and then consequently the ability to manipulate tyre pressure to the same extent to help with the ride as you do with other vehicles. Seems that whatever road you choose to take with the Rangie on you're going to have to take a whole lot of spare rubber and probably spare shockies.

It's all a bit of a bugger really.

[GregMilner]

Having also driven the Gibb a couple of times, and most recently the horrible Drysdale/Mitchell roads, I can't say I'd do that section again in my car, particularly if towing a camper. Didn't seem to matter what combination of tyre pressure and speed I used, I was never comfortable with it. And, as I've written, it turned pear-shaped in a big way.
If we were to go up that way again, I'd be sorely tempted to leave the car and trailer at Drysdale and take a fixed wing flight up to the falls. Not quite the same, but less stressful.
(And worth noting that we didn't lose any rubber, just the one shockie.)

[Ozjet]

Greg, what tyres were you actually running at the time of the suspension failure? I'm somewhat buoyed by that bit of info. Somehow I was thinking that you had trouble with tyres as well.

[GregMilner]

Greg, what tyres were you actually running at the time of the suspension failure? I'm somewhat buoyed by that bit of info. Somehow I was thinking that you had trouble with tyres as well.

I was running Cooper Zeon 275/45/20.

No trouble with them at all, except as I say, being such low profile, it was nerve-wracking trying to find the right balance between pressure (therefore ride) to provide as much cushioning as possible, given the lack of sidewall. I was too nervous to drop them below about 33psi (cold), and on the rough stuff that rose pretty quickly with heat to 40-43psi, so I'd stop and drop them further...which of course meant that when they cooled, the pressure would drop to 30 or less. (I was monitoring pressures and temperatures with a Tyredog system in the car.)

[Ozjet]

It does appear that the Coopers are the ones to go for...

[CSBrisie]

noting that 25/50/20 fit too

[discojools]

Just noticed that Pirrelli have dropped 275/45/20 ATRs from their website so no choice but Coopers now.

[Ozjet]

Hoping that RR see the error of their ways for the Australian market and tweak the design so that a larger range of tyres more suitable for our conditions become available to us. Whilst Gregs tyres survived I'd suggest that the damage to the shocks was in part a consequence of the tyres not being able to play their part by absorbing some of the impact.

On reflection I'm thinking that whilst the RR is an incredible piece of engineering and has capability beyond what many people would ever ask of it - it fails in the very area that many of us Australians want to use it most, on our corrugated gravel roads, simply, and only because it limits tyre choice.

[Dougal]

Hoping that RR see the error of their ways for the Australian market and tweak the design so that a larger range of tyres more suitable for our conditions become available to us. Whilst Gregs tyres survived I'd suggest that the damage to the shocks was in part a consequence of the tyres not being able to play their part by absorbing some of the impact.

On reflection I'm thinking that whilst the RR is an incredible piece of engineering and has capability beyond what many people would ever ask of it - it fails in the very area that many of us Australians want to use it most, on our corrugated gravel roads, simply, and only because it limits tyre choice.
There is no way bigger tyres world have prevented Greg's shocks from overheating. Shocks control about 8 inches of wheel travel. Tyres about 1 inch.
You simply need to drive slower and/or stop more often in those conditions to let shocks cool.

Try to use tyres soft enough for suspension and they will overheat and fail.

[GregMilner]

Yeah I'd agree with that Dougal, with the somewhat expensive experience I've now gained. :)

(And maybe carry a spray bottle of water to aid the cooling process.)

[rar110]

Sorry to divert thread but what could have avoided Greg's trip termination because of shock failure? Is temp monitoring for each shock worth considering, carrying 2 spares?

[Ozjet]

I guess the notion of having to nurse your car along the corrugated road and stopping regularly to measure the shock temps - and then wait for them to cool before progressing the journey highlights my point. Why should you NEED to do this on a 200k vehicle that is pitched by Landrover as the most capable off road car in the world. I reflect on the countless hours I've driven on outback roads over the years at a comfortable (but safe) clip in other vehicles without being overly concerned about my suspension and tyres and I've never had one failure. All I've needed to do is reduce the air pressure down to about 28psi and off I've gone - no needing to stop by the edge of a dusty road in the hot sun being covered by flies (sometimes) to check shockie temp just to ensure you get to the end of the journey with shockies and tyres in tact. Dougal, you're probably right. a little bit of air out of tyres on 20 inch rims wouldn't help that much - but what does seem so wrong is that a car that is designed to be so good of road can't mix it with the pack when it comes to Australian corrugations.

As I said before - there are only two accounts that I can find (Greg's and Toby Hagon's) of RR's on outback roads. In both accounts there were catastrophic failure of shocks.

As a way of not falling victim to the same thing - yes, you could doddle along at a snails pace, yes you could stop a regular intervals to check the temperature status of the shocks, and yes, you could carry spare shocks BUT, wouldn't it be just better if the Range Rover was designed in such a way that owners could be more confident in the suspension or equivalently confident as they would be with any of the main brands that are commonly seen traversing this great country of ours.

It's really frustrating that they didn't consider resolving this issue at the time of release of the 2013 model. Had they done this I'd say that they could proclaim (hand on heart) that their cars were undeniably the best cars off road.

Sorry if this sounds like a rant but I guess that my frustration over this issue is directly proportional to my love of the car. What I'm hoping is that there are a lot more untold stories of loaded RRs travelling along outback roads without incident.

Still, I should keep things in perspective here as it's very much a first world problem!

[Dougal]

I guess the notion of having to nurse your car along the corrugated road and stopping regularly to measure the shock temps - and then wait for them to cool before progressing the journey highlights my point. Why should you NEED to do this on a 200k vehicle that is pitched by Landrover as the most capable off road car in the world.

Okay, first of all this is not overheating shocks on a currogated road. Corrugated roads driven at speed are only small displacements and there is plenty of cooling air flow to keep shocks cool.

The danger time is driving at slow enough speeds that air cooling doesn't work well while also repeatedly using the majority of the suspension. This is when the shocks create the most heat and the airflow is lowest.

It doesn't matter how much you pay for the vehicle. It cannot break the laws of physics.
The above situations will overheat shocks on virtually any vehicle. The exceptions are those with suspension that barely moves.

[Ozjet]

But in each of the cases cited, the damage to the shocks have occurred on corrugations...

[Dougal]

But in each of the cases cited, the damage to the shocks have occurred on corrugations...

Perhaps we have different definitions of corrugations. I understood with Greg's failure the road was so rough he was doing approx 30km/h for a considerable time.

Corrugations to me are those things you buzz over at 80km/h.

[101RRS]

Sorry but a lot of people seem to be banging on about this and think that because it is a more expensive car this should not be an issue.

Sorry - but puncturing tyres, breaking shocks and even breaking springs is a natural part of life when driving in that part of the world. You can be right one day and have issues the next - depends on a whole range of variable conditions.

Maybe the only unusual issue is that there is an airbag around the shock and it is a bit harder than some to change.

Someone driving a Toyota, Nissan, Mitsu and even a Landie who had shock failure and was not mechanically minded and did not have spare parts would have ended up in the same position.

I think we are being a bit hard on the old RR.

Garry

[RR44TDV8]

I guess the notion of having to nurse your car along the corrugated road and stopping regularly to measure the shock temps - and then wait for them to cool before progressing the journey highlights my point. Why should you NEED to do this on a 200k vehicle that is pitched by Landrover as the most capable off road car in the world. I reflect on the countless hours I've driven on outback roads over the years at a comfortable (but safe) clip in other vehicles without being overly concerned about my suspension and tyres and I've never had one failure. All I've needed to do is reduce the air pressure down to about 28psi and off I've gone - no needing to stop by the edge of a dusty road in the hot sun being covered by flies (sometimes) to check shockie temp just to ensure you get to the end of the journey with shockies and tyres in tact. Dougal, you're probably right. a little bit of air out of tyres on 20 inch rims wouldn't help that much - but what does seem so wrong is that a car that is designed to be so good of road can't mix it with the pack when it comes to Australian corrugations.

As I said before - there are only two accounts that I can find (Greg's and Toby Hagon's) of RR's on outback roads. In both accounts there were catastrophic failure of shocks.

As a way of not falling victim to the same thing - yes, you could doddle along at a snails pace, yes you could stop a regular intervals to check the temperature status of the shocks, and yes, you could carry spare shocks BUT, wouldn't it be just better if the Range Rover was designed in such a way that owners could be more confident in the suspension or equivalently confident as they would be with any of the main brands that are commonly seen traversing this great country of ours.

It's really frustrating that they didn't consider resolving this issue at the time of release of the 2013 model. Had they done this I'd say that they could proclaim (hand on heart) that their cars were undeniably the best cars off road.

Sorry if this sounds like a rant but I guess that my frustration over this issue is directly proportional to my love of the car. What I'm hoping is that there are a lot more untold stories of loaded RRs travelling along outback roads without incident.

Still, I should keep things in perspective here as it's very much a first world problem!

Ozjet, I have now done over 70,000km in my 2011 Vogue Luxury and a lot of that, nowhere near 1/2, but a lot of it has been on corrugated dirt road in outback Qld and in the mining areas of NSW and I do not have shock failure. I am sure if you speak to the guys doing the trips that lead to shock failure you will find they were towing or ran a heavy car and that will lead to OEM shock failure on the type of roads they were on. It will do it on any vehicle, not just Range Rovers. If you are going to do an expedition, you need to prepare for it. In a past life I was the GM of one of the major 4wd products retailers and I have built or been responsible for the build of more vehicles that were destined for the "big trip" than I can poke a blunt stick at and yet all of them needed some form of major suspension help to do the job being asked of them. You might think that because you're paying a certain amount of money for a car, you should get what you want in every circumstance and I cant argue with that but if you want an indication of what I'm talking about, go to a new car dealer and find a new vehicle fitted with leaf springs and take a good hard look at the springs. For a spring to work, it must have a curve in it, a place to bend to when put thru it's arc of operation, but I bet you find that most leaf sprung vehicle from new have flat or inverse springs. This is because of a build budget, the manufacturer chose to fit cheap and nasty springs because they are out of sight and out of mind. When we consider a "lift kit" for a leaf sprung or torsion bar vehicle, it is really just taking the suspension back to where it should have been had it been fitted with a fully working suspension as new. So my point is, that no matter how much you want it, your suspension will let you down under extreme conditions no matter what you pay and what you drive. If you want it to work under those extreme conditions, go to a specialist and have it built to suit your requirements.
Sorry for the rant

Grant

[Ozjet]

Grant - not a rant. I understand what you mean. Epic trips need proportionate preparation. Knowing what you know, what suspension mods could you/would you make on the RR to make it more suitable for outback touring? I'm anticipating that I'll be moderately to heavily loaded in the back of the car and towing with about 150kg - 200kg on the ball.

Just so everyone in this thread knows - I'm honestly not trying to be intentionally provocative and I do appreciate your comments - I'm just trying to ascertain if RR (because of their design) are going to be more prone to failure on the roads I intend driving.

What I haven't heard anyone say categorically (or even with much confidence) is that if I took my newish RR (loaded and towing) with the Cooper A/T's I'd be no more prone to tyre or suspension failure than I would be in an equally prepared Land Cruiser for example, with fresh Coopers/BFG's (285/75/R16) driven with the same load on the same roads with the same driving style.

(Unless that is what some of you are actually saying?)


I have had lots of experience touring in the outback and have always made sure the car I'm driving is prepared as sensibly as possible. For me - it means making sure that the scheduled serving is up to date, filters and fluids are replaced and belts inspected and replaced if required. Most important for me is that the replacement of tyres occurs just before a big trip and the suspension inspected and revived where required. I don't go and get a whole new suspension ARB kit etc installed. The trips I do are not epic (I'm mostly travel on the Gibb, Great Central for example) - most often they are on gazetted roads. These roads however can be quite corrugated for long quite stretches and it's these conditions I'm most concerned about as this is where I've seen vehicles fail the most. Whilst I've personally never had any vehicle failures I aware that other cars fail too - but like I said before, the failures I seen have often been related to old tyres or inadequate tyre choice or just expecting that their 9 year old fully loaded cruiser would happily belt down any road forever and ever on it's original shocks.

[rar110]

All good info.

The new L322 will never carry the amount I carry on the Perentie. So I'll be using the RAAF Track trailer to lighten the load on the car. The tdv8 should handle it easily especially as it normally has a really light tow ball weight.

So I'm keen on info to help ensure my 19" tyres & shocks survive a trip.

[Dougal]

What I haven't heard anyone say categorically (or even with much confidence) is that if I took my newish RR (loaded and towing) with the Cooper A/T's I'd be no more prone to tyre or suspension failure than I would be in an equally prepared Land Cruiser for example, with fresh Coopers/BFG's (285/75/R16) driven with the same load on the same roads with the same driving style.

For some reason I seem to read more about cooper tyre failures than any other.

[Ozjet]

Dang Dougal. I didn't want to hear that! I'm am a fan (and user) of BFG but with the RR it looks like I'll have little choice.

[Dougal]

Dang Dougal. I didn't want to hear that! I'm am a fan (and user) of BFG but with the RR it looks like I'll have little choice.

I know what you mean about choice. I recommended a family member put Zeon's on the RRS because they were the only thing that fit the needs. They are wearing well but the cracks in the tread blocks (from solely road use) concern me a little.

If you have 19" then I'd look at the Duratracs. I'm impressed with mine (albeit in a completely different size). 20" you're kind of stuck.

[Graeme]

So I'm keen on info to help ensure my 19" tyres & shocks survive a trip.Are your shocks convential or CVD? LR convential shocks generally seem to survive OK unless already worn-out before a big trip. The trick is to detect when they need replacing - mine always by about 60K.

[rar110]

Are your shocks convential or CVD? LR convential shocks generally seem to survive OK unless already worn-out before a big trip. The trick is to detect when they need replacing - mine always by about 60K.

Mines a 08MY poverty pack so no CVD as far as I know.

[Ozjet]

Just received an email from my local Perth dealership regarding tyres.

...start quote

Check out the link below

Mickey Thompson Tires - STZ (http://www.mickeythompsontires.com.au/index.php?page=STZ)

WildPeak A/T - Falken Tyres Australia (http://www.falken.com.au/tyre-product/4wd-tyres/wildpeak-a)

I will see what I can find out from our tyre guys as well.

end quote.....

Has anyone had experience with either of these two tyres/manufacturers?

Cheers
Dean

[simmo1]

Folks,

I wonder if anyone has yet worked out whether the GOE 18 inch rims will work with the 2014 RRS TDV6, with the smaller 'standard' brakes package.

For the RRS the standard 19 inch rims wear 235/65R19 Pirellis. They are the only tires in the whole wide world of that size, which is a bummer really as the sidewall height is a little better than the 255/55 that the D4 has as standard.

Tire selection here is a little problematic.

Cheers, Simmo

[BobD]

Simmo,


The GOE wheels are OK for the RRS TDV6. The RRS is covered on the D4 part of the forum so you won't get too many answers here!

[simmo1]

Rightio,

I was just wanting to confirm that the GOE rims fitted the current model RRS TDV6. I know that they fit the prior model, which is what Gordon from GOE runs himself. The current model is not based on the D4 platform anymore.

Cheers, Simmo

[CSBrisie]

Summary of Brake sizes for LR products: (so RRS base and RRV base are OK!!)

Front Rear

D4 360mm 350mm
RRS TDV6 350 350
RRS SDV6 380 365
RRS SDV8 380 365
Vogue 3.0 Diesel 350 350
Vogue TDV8 380 365

[BobD]

Rightio,

The current model is not based on the D4 platform anymore.

Cheers, Simmo



No worries Simmo. I also made the statement that they fitted based on you saying it was a TDV6, which is the base current model. The brake sizes in the last post confirm this.

Not sure which part of the forum the latest RRS fits now, come to think of it, so good point!! Lucky you, owning one.

The best thing is to PM Gordon or email GOE, to find out straight from the expert.

[BobD]

I PM'ed Gordon and he told me that he can't get hold of a TDV6 Sport so he can't confirm that the wheels fit. Hence, what I posted earlier may be wrong, although likely to be correct, based on the brake sizes as posted by others.

[simmo1]

Yeah I have a mate with the GOE rims, however when ever we are in the same place at the same time we are usually legless, so not that wise to try and muck around changing wheels and trying them. Just havent had the opportunity yet. One day.

Cheers and thanks, Simmo

[CSBrisie]

Summary of Brake sizes for LR products: (so RRS base and RRV base are OK!!)

Front Rear

D4 360mm 350mm
RRS TDV6 350 350
RRS SDV6 380 365
RRS SDV8 380 365
Vogue 3.0 Diesel 350 350
Vogue TDV8 380 365


Well, I'm revisiting my old post as I'm curious if anyone has managed to check whether a Compomotive 18 inch rim fits a L405 SDV8.

I have learnt that the current shape RRS SDV8 uses 380mm front discs and 6 pot calipers- like the last of the L322 TDV8's - so GOE's 18inch rims wont fit.

BUT the 2016 SDV8 L405 has 350mm front and rear discs as does the SDV6 L405. I dont know what calipers are used though. The 18's fit the D4 with 360mm front discs.

Soooooo, I'm wondering, just maybe the 18's do fit the SDV8 (and SDV6) - making one of these fitted with nice quality offroad tyres with lots of sidewall, and an e-diff (not available on the SDV6) my new dream off road machine :)

Now, how do I get a D4 owner with 18's and a L405 SDV8 owner in the same spot at the same time...hmmmm.

[Graeme]

What size 18" would you fit, being mindful that the L405 has 31" OD tyres? 275/55R20 are just under 32" and have as much sidewall as 265/60R18 which seems to be the most popular D4 size on 18" rims.

[CSBrisie]

Good point Graeme re tyres - perhaps I'm also influenced by availability of 18 inch wheel based tyres, especially in the Outback; ability to have these on caravan, and strength of these rims.
Cheers

[simmo1]

Folks, my question earlier abt a 2014 RRS TDV6 and the compomotive rims. I have tried but they don't fit. Only tried the rear, the top of the calliper rubs on the inner rim surface. A few mm in it but they don't fit. Not sure how this relates to the RR though.
Simmo

[peter g]

Hi Guys,
Firstly Gordon at GOE tells me that he hopes to have a prototype 18"rim for the L494 (current sport) in November.
In a recent conversation with a JLR techie he said that if it fits the L494 it should fit my 2015 L405 TDV6 as brakes and suspension are identical. So here's hoping.
Re tyres, my L405 now has the original 255/55/20's which are the same diameter as my spare set of BFG 265/65/18's which I kept after selling my L322. Incidentally the rim to road clearance of these 20's is the same as on the original 255/60/18's on my old L322 TD6, so the clearance is not too bad.
I plan to order a set of the new GOE's as soon as I can get a trial fit, or confirmation that they definitely fit the L405.
Cheers
Peter

[CSBrisie]

Thanks Peter, appreciate the update!